Disappointed/unhappy with med school?

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Hello again!
In response to lilycat's question....do I have regrets?

Yes, and no I guess. It took me a while to really sort out my feelings. I think that many of the things that I'm experiencing would be present at many other med schools (especially after hearing about the stories on this thread). But, I think that my quality of life, for the money that I'm spending is great. I have my own place, my own car, and can have my own life and hobbies outside of med school. That independence is great.

AND plus, I'm SOOOO happy that I didn't choose a school with a dorm for the first years! I would have gone INSANE!!!!!!

I do regret not going to the West Coast because of the whole "west coast" thing (the people, mentality, scenery). But I would have had to be penny pinching, been living in closed quarters, and would have been stifled even further.

So, if I had to make the decision over again, I probably would have made the same choice, which makes it easier for me to accept where I am now...even if I gripe about it 😉

caffeinatedly yours
caffeinegirl
 
Immaturity manifest itself in many forms. Mostly, its from people who got into medical school straight from college who have no real life experiences. A lot of them just don't get it that most of the people in the world are working hard for their money and think that they are so elite in getting into medical school that they can "only live on $250,000". Other behaviors that I have observed include an intense motivation to pursue "lifestyle" specialties (yeh, I am waiting until the day when they become so specilized that they forget how to CPR or basic life saving procedure on their loved ones and have to get a "lowly" internist to save their lives, jack$@s), the philosophy that medicine is the epiphany of human achievement, and boosting about their "youngness" when they got into medical school as though it was something of an achievement, while other older people have gotten much more different/more stellar life experiences (which is exactly why the ADCOM is accepting less and less immature college grads straight from school).

No one during your interview day will tell you what it is really like in their school for reasons that you can come up with yourself. And quite frankly, I don't know of a sure way of getting this kind of information since no one will tell you about this, explicitly. You will need to read between the lines and go with your gut instinct. Or, you can ask med students from one school about another neighboring school. Often, med students in neighboring schools get gossips about other schools and you will get information that way. Just don't do this during your interview day or you will come off as more interested in the other school than the school that you are interviewing at.

All in all, if anyone is having a blast with their classmates please share it. Maybe my experience is unique...
 
I hate to disagree with everyone, but I find most of my classmates to be pretty decent.

OK, I loathe two or three, I don't like five or ten, and I don't get along with many, but there are several really wonderful people at my school, and most are worthwhile human beings.

Yes, during rotations we get on each other's nerves. A LOT. But that is normal for that kind of intense contact.

And we REALLY are not competative. Most of my class are slackers.
 
caffeinegirl,

Just curious, why are you so glad you are not in dorms? Is it just the undergrad college-like atmosphere that you don't like? I visited several dorms at several schools and at some I wouldn't mind living there, but at others, it just seems like the space is so confined, it's hard not to get on other people's nerves.
 
Elle,

Simul probably answered your question best -- it's been my experience that a lot of current med students tend to lie or fudge a little on their experience. Most of the students you meet (ie, the tour guides, the people who go to meet & greet events, etc.) want to recruit students, so it can be hard to get a realistic or true perspective. Also, the class composition can change a lot from year to year. For instance, at my school, I met several members of the current MS2 class last year while I was interviewing -- they are a pretty tight-knit, cohesive, cooperative class. For whatever reason, my class just hasn't been like that. It's early still, so things could change, but there's just no guarantees on what kind of a class you might end up with.

One of my hesitations in starting this thread was that I didn't want it to become an attack on one or two schools. I think a lot of the disappointment that posters are expressing is related to medical education as a whole, and the types of people who get into medical school.

As for the immaturity factor, it's kind of strange. I can't exactly peg why this happens, but when you put a large group of people together all day, in the same classes hour after hour, they regress to the level of high school (or in my case, some of my classmates regressed to junior high. 😉 ). Gossip is rampant, people butting into your business is rampant, cliques get established, etc. It's sort of like the 9th grade all over again. For most people, college was big enough to ignore and avoid this type of crap, but the small, intimate size of most med school classes makes avoidance a little more difficult and unrealistic.

Like caffeinegirl, I'm really glad I didn't end up at a school with dorms, just because I think I would go batty if I had to see my classmates that often. If you can barely make it through classes with them, you definitely don't want to have to see them at home too. On the other hand, I have a friend at Cornell who is living in the dorms there and really likes it. It definitely seems like it has brought his class closer together and that they have bonded much more than at my school.
 
You guys are great! Thanks so much for the responses... Simul, that's a really helpful list of questions. Too bad I didn't think to ask most of them during my interviews. 🙁 I'll definitely keep them in mind, though.

I've found that at interviews, med students *love* to gossip about other schools, and unfortunately that's mostly my source of information. I've only heard negative things this way, and there's no way to gauge how much of it is true (especially when schools seem to have a sort of rivalry going on.) I don't know people at the schools, so this is pretty confusing.

I guess I'll just try to go with my gut instinct. 🙂

thanks again!
 
i hate life. my friends hate life. second year is so so so so....tests tests tests and then you have to take tests.and then you take boards. looking forward to rotations. mentally drained. wouldn't matter if it was here or there, can't leave the house or the library much anyhow.
 
hi moo
I wouldn't want to stay in dorms for pretty much the same reason as lilycat's.
If I can't stand being at school for class because of my classmates...then I would go insane if I'd be living with ALL of them in one building. Especially come test time...the stress that people feel is intense...and it can be contagious.

luckily, i get away when i go home...don't have to hear about "did you get this answer on number so-and-so?" oh, I know how this works, don't you?
yadda yadda yadda

can't wait for my break (starts tomorrow after the last final...woohooo!!!)
🙂
 
I think a real sign of "maturity" is to be able to deal with others in a professional manner. Sorry to tell you this, but you'll be required to do this every day on the wards, during internship and residency, and throughout your careers in medicine. We just finished our Clinical Interlude, in which we spend one week in the inpatient setting, experiencing the interactions of various members of the medical team. I can tell you for a fact that you'll be dealing with many, many strong personalities. It is really irrelevant whether you like or dislike certain people--what matters more is that you can interact with people in a professional manner and do what is in the best interest for your patients. I think the same principle applies for your first two years of medical school. These are your colleagues, whether you like it or not. So instead of complaining about how disappointed you are in your class and their supposed "immaturity", why don't you try and make the best of the situation. Give people a chance--I have found the better you get to know people, the more interesting and friendlier they tend to be. Seriously--try organizing dinner or some other social event and see what happens. You might be surprised at how open, talkative, and fun your colleagues can be. Remember, you're all in the same boat! 😀
 
Vader

Point well taken. And BTW, I have tried what you said. I have a PBL curriculum and whether I like it or not, I AM interacting with people I don't like. I have also invited many of my classmates to social events earlier on when class first started, only to be disgusted when I found out what kind of people some of them are. Am I thrilled that some of them will be my collegues in the future? No.
 
Vader,

To echo what jkchou said, it's not like I haven't made an effort to interact with my classmates in a variety of settings. My opinions of many of my classmates were formed over time (we started orientation Aug. 2nd) and through academic and social settings. In our PBL-type classes and in review sessions, and even in lecture, I have found that in many cases people cannot act with the "maturity" that you describe -- they can be outright rude to professors, they can hostilely dismiss oposing viewpoints in problem-solving sessions, they can be extremely condescending, etc. However, while I was disappointed by acts like these, I was less surprised by them because I had glimpses of it in undergrad.

Your points about working with many strong personalities are not exactly new to me. I appreciate your perspective after a week spent on the in-patient setting with a medical team, but please appreciate that I spent 2 years of my life doing that full-time. Prior to starting med school, I was working in the hospital/clinic setting (both in-patient and out-patient), as a member of an extensive medical team with 5 attending physicians, 6 nurses, a dietician, a social worker, and numerous office personnel. There were "strong" personalities, and not everyone on that medical team was going to be best friends with one another. However, when one member of the team (namely an attending physician) was extremely unethical, deceitful, did not cooperate with the other members of the team, and did not work with the other members of the team "maturely" or "professionally" (ie, instigating disagreements over treatment plans in front of the patient and his/her family, or rudely correcting a nurse in front of patient and family), it does bring down the performance of the team down as a whole, and makes for a very unpleasant work environment. It can also greatly jeapordize the delivery of patient care, the health and well-being of the patient, and the integrity of medical research. Unfortunately, I see the makings of these same traits in some of my classmates, such as an unwillingness to cooperate and share knowledge with their fellow classmates. Perhaps because of my work experience, and having seen so many of the unsavory aspects of medical practice first-hand I am more sensitive to certain behaviors that I feel detract from the work and learning environment. Because I have seen the real-world consequences of working with such people, perhaps that is why I am depressed to see these traits manifesting themselves so early on.
 
Originally posted by lilycat:
•Vader,

To echo what jkchou said, it's not like I haven't made an effort to interact with my classmates in a variety of settings. My opinions of many of my classmates were formed over time (we started orientation Aug. 2nd) and through academic and social settings. In our PBL-type classes and in review sessions, and even in lecture, I have found that in many cases people cannot act with the "maturity" that you describe -- they can be outright rude to professors, they can hostilely dismiss oposing viewpoints in problem-solving sessions, they can be extremely condescending, etc. However, while I was disappointed by acts like these, I was less surprised by them because I had glimpses of it in undergrad.
•••

I can probably vouch for Lilycat's comments since we both attend the same school, but I think I'm on the other side of the spectrum when it comes to noticing and interacting with such behaviour. For instance, my PBL group got along really well. I think we almost complemented each other - we finished our work quickly - most importantly, though, we actually *finished* the work. Some groups have a hard time grasping the concept of being concise - cutting out the fluff. Instead of getting out in a couple of hours, they would spend all afternoon debating and debating... about what? Probably about how right they are and how wrong someone else is. Who knows. At any rate, I am certainly not disappointed with medical school because I'm freaking _learning_ - that's what I'm here for - to learn. Yes, I've met my fair share of undesirable people (personality, of course -- there are, however, a lot of cute people in class 🙂 ), but I've also met my fair share of "friends." I can't help but think that you were thrown into an unfortunate set of circumstances, Lilycat. Frankly, I hope that changes soon.
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cmz -- Actually, my PBL class was pretty good. My worst experiences were in lecture (I don't care how bad Nicklas was, people just shouldn't behave like that), review sessions, and the lovely group essays/quizzes, anatomy lab, and the practice practicals! Oh, and PRN too. 😀

I'm not so sure it was unfortunate circumstances as much as it was unrealistic expectations which have since been tempered. I think people who were more traditional premeds (like some of my friends in class) are a lot less bothered by these things because they experienced it before in undergrad. That really wasn't my case, so I am still surprised by it. As for the situation improving, I think it will mostly because of a new way of looking at things thanks to my roommate and a good friend of his, both of whom are strong objectivists. It's definitely a viewpoint that has helped me to put things in better perspective, even if I still like to bitch about it a little. 😉
 
i think, perhaps, that the reason the dorm life doesn't bother me at NYU is i am used to it from college (all 4 years), and have had almost no personal living space in my entire life, due to sharing a bedroom with a twin brother, etc etc. i actually find this arrangement convenient because all of my friends are in close proximity. i don't know anyone in NYC outside of NYU students and it doesn't bother me in the least. the city itself can be more of a source of irritation than my classmates. we definitely have gunners here, but most of them are 'closet' gunners (you never see them because they're always studying) and the more annoying ones are quite easy to laugh at and ignore. i love the pass/fail system here, and i have found the degree of cooperation among the students amazing (people emailing answers to study questions and such to the entire class).

to say one thing about something written earlier- i belive it is inaccurate to claim that all med students who enter med school right after college are short on 'real life' experience. but that's a whole other debate, and might be too personal for this forum. ok- gotta go study head and neck- three more days and anatomy's over...

bud
 
The trouble a lot of you have with your classmates is that you have unreasonable expectation of medical school and the medical profession.

Sure it's hard getting in, but it's not that hard. In other words, most medical students are not as altruistic or saintly as you were led to believe.

I was pleasantly suprised to find that most of the people in my class were just regular folks, a good deal smarter than average, but still just as willing to go out and get trashed after a big exam.

Very little political correctness or affected social conciousness.
 
I think this is a very valuable and intuiging thread (for pre-meds and med students alike). But, by far the most disturbing thing is:

YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN DORMS? (at some schools)

That is the most insane thing I've heard in a long time. I haven't lived in a friggin' dorm since 1993, and have no intention of living in one again at the age of 30!

This insanity must stop! Do most schools force their students to live in dorms?

Sorry, just a minor digression.
 
I'd think to quite a number of students which include a few of the older population would find some dorms quite adequate to live in.. especially if the proximity is closer to school and the rent is cheaper. I know for families it would probably not be as convenient, but for other people, it would be a lot easier than dealing with the pressures of trying to find housing in some situations. Can't be all that bad if the dorms are half-decent. Besides, it might actually promote some unity between some of the students..
 
Originally posted by redherring:
[QB]

Mostly....... could you be a little more arrogant?(note sarcasm)

My response:

Also "curious" is that you only posted my first message and neglected (or were you avoiding?) POSTING OUT THE WHOLE THREAD SO PEOPLE CAN SEE WHAT WAS ACTUALLY GOING ON!!! If you want to take my post out of context, (yes, context is actually important in this case-if you don't know what I mean, check out the ENTIRE "Why are people so agains IM residency thread" on the rotation section).

Yes, immaturity manifests itself in many ways. And I don't understand why would you twist around my words and say that "Most of the people who got straight into college are immature people" Did it ever occur to you what I actually said was "there are immature people in my class (thankfully there aren't many), and out of those immature people, most of them are people who got straight into med school from college?" Did I say people who got into med school not straight from college act with maturity all the time?

BTW, immaturity is also manifested when people take things out of context and try to twist it around to fit it in with their idea. I get the feeling that you are a straight college grad in med school and can't help it if you identify yourself as the group of immature people who I was referring to. Maybe there is some insecurity issues involved here.
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You know. I was just going to let it go because I don't like picking fights with people. But I saw that you were having fun re-editing your post just to find a weak spot in my post. So, lets say we start playing around with linguistics?

The quote is "mostly, its from people who got into medical school straight from college who have no real life experiences"

Now, the word "mostly," in this sense, implies that I was referring to a subpopulation, that there is a greater population out there. An easy example might be "there are 12 eggs in this basket, and most of them are broken." Now, what if there are 100 baskets out there?

In this sense, lets say there are 100 people in my class (100 just to make math/logic easier). And there are about 50 people who got in straight from college. Now, out of the 100 people, lets say, there are about 10 immature people in the class (again 10 just to make math/logic easier). If 7 out of those immature people are straight from college, that leaves 43 people who got in straight from college who are not immature. So, thats 7/50. So, that leaves about only 14% of people who got in straight from college who are immature. So, even though I said "mostly", it turns out that I was only refering to 7% of my class, 14% of the people who got in straight from college.

Now, is that the same as meaning that "most of the people who got in straight from college are immature (remember the 14%?)?" I think it is obviously now that its not since its only 14% after all.

Older people tend not to be immature because older people went through exactly the same things that younger people went through. No one was born all mature-that would not be fun. Its a learning process. People might be immature when they are being compared to people who are much older but people change. There is nothing wrong about being young and making mistakes (I made plenty of mistakes too). Immaturity is only a problem if people don't grow out of it.
 
Panda Bear-

excellent response. i feel exactly the same way.

on a related note, i am looking forward to getting trashed after my last exam tomorrow.

bud
 
Originally posted by Panda Bear:
•The trouble a lot of you have with your classmates is that you have unreasonable expectation of medical school and the medical profession.

Sure it's hard getting in, but it's not that hard. In other words, most medical students are not as altruistic or saintly as you were led to believe.

I was pleasantly suprised to find that most of the people in my class were just regular folks, a good deal smarter than average, but still just as willing to go out and get trashed after a big exam.

Very little political correctness or affected social conciousness.•••

I did mention in a previous post that I did have unrealistic expectations of med school, which contributed to my unhappiness. However, they were not in the way you imply -- I never expected that my classmates would be altruistic or saintly -- I've never actually understood why people would make that assumption anyways. My expectations were that med school, and the students there, would sort of be a continuation of my undergrad experience and the types of people I met there. This was not the case. However, I also wasn't surrounded by a competitve premed environment, or at least I didn't notice it at the time, which I think contributed to my current med school experience.
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ok. i think that this argument bs is very childish. I also think that jkchou or acro yali, or whatever, is very childish, especially for his age. grow up man! stop with the bs. yes, your sentence was interpreted incorrectly, but the tone of your message was in correlation with that "erroneous" interpretation. ask anyone what they think after reading your posts. you sound like a sore man. a guy who is SORE about his situation. maybe you get teased a lot. people make fun of you maybe? NO? well then stop acting like someone who's been scarred...it's pathetic considering your age, and the maturity expected of someone that age.

PS.
please don't respond to this with childish crap.
 
I would say med school can be frustrating and humbling. Since the majority of us were at the top of the class in undergrad, we think we're really smart. Once in med school, you realize just how hard it is to NOT be average. That can get frustrating.

In response to elle's question about what to look for when interviewing... The students! Do they seem happy? Do they hang out outside of class? Are they all robots? I interviewed at one school where they claimed to be friends and not competitive. However, the student I stayed with said she maybe talks to 3 people in her class on a daily basis. I used to attend the "night-before" socials to visit w/ the students and get an idea of what they were like. This helped a ton.
 
I saw the topic and just HAVE to respond. It is refreshing to see these responses because I feel the same way sometimes and it's easy to feel alone if you haven't expressed it to anyone who can actually say "i feel like that too." I've found that alot of my classmates are followers. Gossip runs rampant and it seems to overrule the fact that we fought to get into med school to become excellent physicians and not to talk about who's dating who, who has the highest score, who had the lowest, etc. The first 2 years of medschool were filled with cliques forming all over the class, disliking each other, not sharing resources, and other scandalous behavior. I couldn't believe how FAKE some people proved to be. My advice: just survive and focus on the coursework for the first 2 years because once you enter your clinical years you'll probably NEVER see some of those horrible classmates again.
 
Bear with me, I am way behind on this thread but I wanted to throw my 0.02$ worth in regards to the orginal topic. I was so unhappy at the school I was at due to several reasons (academic hazing by admin and faculty, cut throat med student attitudes etc) that it had a huge effect on my state of mind and thus my ability to study and I finally decided to withdraw while still in academic good standing with the university.

It was absolutley awful. However once I made the decision I had peace about my decision. At my univ the admin and some faculty have taken a particularly nasty attitude towards students. This was not at all what I was anticipating in medical school. I was coming from a strictly hard science background and really enjoyed grad school (chemistry) but med school proved to be something else. I am now questioning if I want to apply again after this most unpleasant experience.

As far as my classmates I found some that I hope to stay in contact with for the rest of my life. However I found that some of them would be willing to offer their classmates up as sacrifices to appease admin and faculty. The word appease was even used in some debate. They didn't give a s**t about what happened to other students so long as it didn't effect them. I found this to be particularly distrubing in light of the fact that medicine, more than most other fields, requires a very high level of personal integrity. This type of selfishness leads to runaway arrogance which leads to refusing to take others counsel and admit to being wrong. This can lead to mistakes and cost people their lives.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
I think this topic is a pretty important one. I don't think it's only relevant for med students, though. I went to a c.c. that's a feeder for UC Berkeley. The competition, especially in the science classes, was extraordinarily intense. The classes were very small, and we moved up through the chemistry, physics and biology as a group. As a result, much of what has been described here occured at this particular c.c.

When I look back at it now from my enormous, anonymous classes at Berkeley, I see that our common, very constricted endeavor (to get into Berkeley), caused most of the strife. Sitting in the same classes everyday with the same (very smart, very driven) people breeds familiarity and contempt. The whole process begins to feel incredibly capricious and darwinian.

Unfortunately, there was no escape from attending class - no note-taking services, no web lectures, and no guarantee that what went on in class was covered in the book. I was miserable most of the time, and I think now that it did affect the quality of my work.

I fully expect that once I'm in med school, the cycle will begin again, but at least now I know what to expect. My plan? Find one or two people I can relate to, spend as much time as I can with my non-medical friends and family, and try to interact with my peers IN MODERATION.

My .02,

Nanon
 
Hi everyone,

Just for your information, anonymous student is a former student of WESTERN UNIVERSITY OF HEALTH SCIENCES-COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE OF THE PACIFIC.

And he is probably the biggest whiner and complainer in the entire MS-I class. He has posted numerous times about his unhappiness with the university.

However, though he did withdraw from the university in good standing, it was because he hadn't failed any of his courses...yet. The people that knew him have stated publicly that he was barely passing his classes.

I, on the other hand, am happy at my medical school. DO or MD, every school is going to have it's problems. But you get whatever you put into it. I like the education I am getting here, and overall the faculty and adminstration are doing a fine job. Yes, there are exceptions to that statement, but overall I and my colleagues are happy being at COMP.

Anonymous is apparently not involved in the university or has not been involved during his time at COMP. He complains about everything bad that is happening to him, but will not take the blame for his performance at the university. He will blame others for his misfortune and his unhappiness. He will state outdated facts in order to support his case. He also is quick to critique other people's personality based on their posts, commenting on what kind of physician they will be.

Anonymous is nothing more than a disgruntled MS-I dropout who couldn't handle medical school. And no matter how unhappy he is or how awful this medical school is, there are 350+ students (MS-I and MS-II) who are doing just fine. Some of these students are older, are married, have children, or are working while they are in medical school. I don't hear them complain as much as you do, and they are 5 months away from finishing up their basic sciences and moving on to rotations.

To everyone on this forum...don't take too much stock in what he says. He is just one of those people that likes to bitch and moan and do nothing about it.

Arnold Cuenca
President-DO Class of 2004
Western University of Health Sciences
College of Osteopathic Medicine of the Pacific
 
Hi again,

I apologize if some things in my post where poorly worded. Whenever I hear about students who complain but don't do anything to help their cause, it makes me very angry. I guess I lost my train of thought for a bit.

Arnold
 
Originally posted by CKent:
•

You might want to re-read what you wrote, I'm sure that your situation is more complicated then that. If you don't believe that it is, you might be misinterpreting your situation based on what I read. When I read your description, it sounds like your MPH class is acting like a group of elementary school kids crowding and kissing up to the "cool" kid of the week who has a neat toy (an LD relationship with an exec) and it sounds like you believe that people are excluding you because you do not have a relationship.•••

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "your situation is more complicated than that", but if you meant that there are reasons I don't have a bf currently that is absolutely true. And they are too complicated to go into here in short detail. I did, however, rethink the situation with my MPH colleagues after going to lunch with some of them after our last final. Although I didn't discuss my feelings with them directly, it now seems to me that they are not deliberately trying to exclude me, but are simply so caught up in their relationships that they don't think much about anyone else in class. And they are decent people, not people I expect to socialize with a great deal, but for the most part nice people who are not competitive and cutthroat (which is v. important!). I also found out that like all relationships, theirs are full of problems and ups and downs, and some may not last forever (talking about ppl who are not married or engaged here). So anyway, just thought I'd add some perspective on not fitting in in med school. Although I haven't totally found the solution and am often irritated by a few of the cutthroat people in class, I would advise future med students to just be themselves and not berate themselves for not being currently attached or not studying 24/7. I think that is the best way to deal with things.
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hmm...i like my class. we like to party and have a good time. sure, we have alot of jackasses but the rest of us just kind of laugh at them for being so anal. ignore them, and know that they will just never be happy in life. the rest of us drink like we're still in college.
 
Caveman,

That was a rather dumbfounding post you wrote there. Actually, I am still not sure if I should care about some random post on an anonymous thread enough to reply, since all we will be accomplishing is yelling back and forth in the vaccum of cyberspace behind a shield of anonymity arguing over...nothing, literally. And quite frankly, I don't see why I should respond to your vague, and yet, bizzare accusations that I am a "scarred sore man", especially when I am secure enough to know that I am definitely not a "scarred sore man." As you say, it is childish to be arguing over this kind of trivial things, so I am going to let it go. I usually don't respond to BS posts I see around and I don't see why I should give a rat's posterior now.
 
Originally posted by aecuenca:
•Hi again,

I apologize if some things in my post where poorly worded. Whenever I hear about students who complain but don't do anything to help their cause, it makes me very angry. I guess I lost my train of thought for a bit.

Arnold•••

OH MY GOSH

😱

I read your post and I though that was SOOOOOOOOO VICIOUS....the previous student, did not post the medical school and he was simply venting out his frustation? with all due respect who are you to come to this website, disclose the poor guy and say he whines and moans all the time? what kind of sick remark is that? maybe he felt that the competition was cutthroat and maybe he thought the administrators were mean, who are you to say that he had or had'nt failed a class? what is it to you? gosh, I found your attitude dispicable, and I hope I don't meet any people with your personality....YUK, get a life dude! your words were very ill and sickening....maybe the poor guy/girl had a serious problem in his life or maybe he couldn't compete with everyone else...who are you to judge his characer?

"his always moaning and complaining" oh and exactly what are you doing? complaining that his complaining all the time? gosh that was very sick of you to try to reveal the identity of that person...I hope he or she is doing fine, and with all honesty, reading some of the posts of your classmates "annonymous student"...I think it was best that you withdrew...hopefully another medical school wouldn't be bad, and you won't have evil classmates like this Aceunau guy.....EEE YUK...how pure evil!!
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Ditto, Watchamacallit!
 
Originally posted by aecuenca:
•Hi again,

I apologize if some things in my post where poorly worded. Whenever I hear about students who complain but don't do anything to help their cause, it makes me very angry. I guess I lost my train of thought for a bit.

Arnold•••

Wow. Whatchamacallit has already nailed most of the pertainent points. What gets me is that, at the end of your self-rightous little tirade, you had the nads to identify yourself as the president of your class. I wonder how your school would react if they knew that one of their representatives went online and came within a hairs breath of breaching the confidentiality of one of thier students. I confess, I don't know much about the student government of medical schools, but it seems to me like you nearly opened them up to a libel suit. (I mean, how do you know so much about this person's grades? If you're just going on hear-say, you should be ashamed of yourself just for spreading unfounded gossip.) Believe me, you haven't made your school look very appealing.

However angry you might be about how he feels about your school, resorting to slamming your fellow student (even if s/he withdrew) reveals a depth of immaturity that you might want to work on.

Nanon
Click to expand...
 
In regards to the replies,

I have dealt with numerous people who like to blame others for their misfortune or fault the faculty for their problems and not take responsibility for themselves. Perhaps you are right, maybe anonymous had other extenuating circumstances. But, from all the posts that I have read, he has attacked the university relentlessly that I attend and take pride in and puts down other people as well.

In addition, none of you know who I am. You believe I am some uncaring person who has no compassion for others. But you don't know what efforts I have done for my class, for the things I try to do for the University, and the efforts I have put in to create a wonderful environment with my colleagues. The reason why I stated that I am the class president is because I have been involved in everything that anonymous student has mentioned in his posts, which several times I have seen to be exaggerated and skewed to strengthen his argument. If you think I am someone who truly and willfully tries to decimate his colleagues, then I invite you all to contact my classmates and ask them if I am this person you think I am.

I have sympathy for those that strive to do their best, who voice their concerns and opinions with dignity, and make efforts to help themselves and their classmates. But think about this person who has so much anger and frustration for a university but yet does not make any efforts to remedy the situation (according to previous posts, he has not approached any of his class officers about any of the problems he talks about). In addition, he runs a smear campaign of a university utilizing outdated knowledge which at times has been incorrect. He will state supposed facts about our class (MS-II) that he has no knowledge of. He has stated in his posts so much negativity to discourage incoming students from attending, seemingly trying to "rain on the newbies parade" as someone else has called it. Is he part of the problem or the soultion? How can you help those that do not help themselves?

Is it okay to willfully and consciously try destroy the reputation of a university and the people that choose to attend it? And why would an individual want to do so?

I was angry, and I am sorry. In the defense of the university, I used poor judgment and will use better discretion in the future.

Arnold
 
Wow, it only took 6 pages for things to get really snippy around here! 😀

aecuenca -- sorry if it feels like you are being picked on, but I found your original response to "anonymous student" to be in poor taste. You claim that you want to defend your school, but until your post, I had no idea what school "anonymous student" went to, nor did I care.

I can understand your wish to defend your school, but I think there are ways of doing so without attacking and belittling people who may have a different viewpoint. Perhaps this student did go to members of the administration with his concerns or problems, and was not given the support or assistance he/she seeked. Since you are not the student, and you are not an administrator at this school, it doesn't really seem fair to judge what this student may have done to help his or her situation. You simply may not be aware. Nor should it matter -- he/she has had a negative experience, you have had a positive one -- leave it at that. If you take issue with assertions or comments made on other threads, there are better ways to deal with it than rehashing the same argument though each new thread.

Hostilely attacking and belittling another student simply because of a disagreement of opinion does not seem like the best way to portray either yourself or your school in a positive light.
 
Lilycat,

As the saying goes: "Two wrongs do not make a right".

I have conceded that my response was of poor judgment and have apologized to those I have offended. Because anonymous has made it well known in other forums what school he attended, what his background is, what his situation is, and what his opinions are, I didn't think stating what school he attended would incite so much anger. But I was in error. In other posts, anonymous has "belittled" (as you say) others and I should not have returned the favor.

But in defense of administration and faculty: I have worked on numerous committees and have had countless meetings with them. I have engaged in discussions regarding students' interest in academic review, school policies, academic integrity, and curriculum changes. As one of the MS-I officers put it recently in a post: "Administration likes student input...but implementing them takes time." This is very true. But that change due to student input is impeded every time one student decides to take matters into their own hands and berates the university, it's faculty, staff, and administration.

Some people never recognize the efforts that class representatives put into voicing student concerns. There has been a lot of frustration among not only the officers of my class, but the officers of the MS-I class as well. It is these people, as well as their colleagues who support them, who try to make the medical school experience an enjoyable one.

I guess what I am trying to say is try to understand my viewpoint. I have fought many battles alongside classmates who have been in situations like anonymous. I've fought the good fight and have won some and lost some. But there has to be some sense of responsiblity on the student as well.

I have had a positive experience and anonymous has had a negative experience. My defense of the university will cease (with better discretion, I promise) if his smear campaign will end. I am willing to leave it at that if anonymous will do the same.

Arnold
 
Originally posted by Katie:
•

Although I didn't discuss my feelings with them directly, it now seems to me that they are not deliberately trying to exclude me, but are simply so caught up in their relationships that they don't think much about anyone else in class.•••

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. I just wanted to point out that from what I read, it seemed like you thought that you were being excluded simply because you do not have a relationship. Your new assessment sounds more likely to me, that they are not purposely excluding you from anything but rather are just pre-occupied with their relationship and it's nothing to take personally. My other un-solicited advice to you would be to avoid the cut-throat people, it's often better to be alone then to be in certain company, and don't worry about making friends right away, sometimes it takes people over a year to find their right "clique".
Click to expand...
 
Hi folks,
I'd actually like to comment on the statements made by anonymous student and aecuenca...

I was kind of taken aback after reading Arnold's (aecuenca's) replies to anonymous student, but after reading the apologies, I have a better understanding of his mindset when he wrote that first reply to anonymous.

First, I should state that after reading numerous posts by anonymous in the osteopathic forum and in the allopathic forum here, I too felt an immediate desire to post replies to defend my school, its faculty, and some of my classmates as well. Time and energy that could've been spent studying during finals went into posting back numerous times because I felt pretty strongly about some of the statements made by anonymous. I have to honestly say that I can't argue with all the statements he/she made.. and I may partially agree with some of them, but I did feel that a few of the statements made by anonymous were unfair, undue, and incorrect.

I can kind of imagine what anonymous was going through with having to withdraw from our school and no matter how much someone wants to "de-promote" my school's name, I can't ignore the fact that he will have to wait to hopefully become accepted to another medical institution.. one at which anonymous will have a happier and more satisfying experience at. I know that there are others on SDN from my school that personally know anonymous student and no matter what was said on here, everyone hopes he will find happiness elsewhere. In the end, we all share dreams of reaching similar goals, right?

That being said, I don't think some of the statements made by anonymous were professional or warranted. I don't particular agree with such bitter comments about some of my classmates and the administration. Granted, this thread has to do with those unhappy with med school, but most of the posts have been in regards to classmates and not attacks against the school itself. I wholeheartedly agree with comments on gossiping, competitiveness/cutthroatedness, etc.. I think there are going to be some folks like that in every med school class, but statements such as "They didn't give a s**t about what happened to other students so long as it didn't effect them" and "At my univ the admin and some faculty have taken a particularly nasty attitude towards students" can't really be taken as true without giving outsiders a better understanding of the situation. It might not matter as much in this thread, but posting such things in threads that prospective students read is substantial because it may not give a potential student an accurate representation of the school. Plenty of schools will have problems to gripe about, but when someone brings these problems to surface, they should be presented with "both sides" because hopefully the reason for mentioning problems is for the benefit of applicants who are making decisions about acceptances.

In regards to the confidentiality issue, I do realize that it was a mistake in quoting "grades" although it would have been relatively easy to tell from certain threads in the Osteopathic forum that anonymous had been a part of our school and that there were very specific reasons for withdrawing.

I should openly mention that I personally know Arnold and I respect him as a fellow peer at my school and of a representative of the second year class. I can't understate the fact that he has contributed countless hours to help both those in his class and the MS-I class. I am sure that he realized his mistake in letting his emotions get the best of him in posting that note though... although he did not completely apologize until later, he did read what he had written and shortly posted another message five minutes later saying he had written in the heat of the moment. Understandably, he represents a great deal more due to his officer position in the second year class, but I feel everyone makes honest mistakes and I have seen it countless times on SDN as well. Emotions get high, posters start to flame one another, and words are said that are better left off unsaid. It is easy to vent on message boards.. and to be misunderstood just as easily by someone who may be offended by previous statements. I hope that as much as Aecuenca may have misjudged anonymous, potential posters will realize that judging Aecuenca's "character" by those few lines would not be right either.

Lilycat- I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Hopefully this thread can turn back to the normal moans and groans about our fellow peers and not as much towards each other. (that would be.. counterproductive, right? heh) At any rate, I've heard plenty of bitter comments from students of many schools and I've never given it a thought to think more highly or badly of a school due to a single student's comments.. if I am not intimately familiar with a school, I try not to make any premature conclusions about a school. I do feel that some damage has been done already in our name, but I hope to allow others to see that everyone has different experiences in med school... and our school definitely has positive points to mention as well as a few negative ones.

Let's let a sleeping dragon lie.. no? 😀
 
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