Disclosing mental illness on applications?

[Things1and2]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about how we shouldn't disclose mental illness on our applications. However, I don't see how I can't tbh.

I have OCD that was once very severe. I couldn't even leave the house for years (ages 27-32). During that time, I started a freelance writing and editing business, which is what I am still doing now.

My anxiety issues caused a lot of trouble even before that, during undergrad - though I graduated with a 3.9 (I was pre-med), I had to take a semester off because I couldn't handle my classes. I tried to get help, but no one took it seriously or helped. All that the school shrinks did was make me take time off of school, while not doing a thing to address the underlying issue or even refer me to anyone who could. I didn't even get an official diagnosis until years after I graduated, and then it took years to get to the point where I was functional again.

If I don't mention it, I feel like it would leave a bunch of holes in my story. I would have no explanation for why I had to take a semester off in undergrad, and it would be really random that I was working as a writer for years when I was always interested in medicine. And the thing is, I don't see it as a "weakness." I see it as a strength - I had an illness that I never asked for, and I recovered against all odds, when even my therapists were saying I was a lost cause. I also feel that the fact that I have dealt with this means that I am more prepared for medical school, because I have learned how to manage my condition. Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it, and I would. Yet they would be considered more attractive candidates? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, I really just feel that my experience has made me a better person. It humbled me and made me so much more empathetic than I was before I struggled with severe mental illness. Also, because of my own experiences with incompetent therapists and doctors who didn't help me when they could have saved me years of struggles by addressing it early on, I know just how broken the system is and want to be part of what changes that - if I could stop just one person from going through what I did, I would consider that a success.

I can definitely see how medical schools wouldn't want people who are still struggling with debilitating mental illness. I know firsthand that someone who doesn't have a condition like mine under control couldn't handle school. But when it's someone who has done the work and learned how to manage it, refusing to consider them just because they have overcome a mental disorder just seems like flat-out discrimination to me.

I'm also planning to write a book about my experience before applying - which, if published, would make it so that it is public knowledge that I have OCD. And I want to do other advocacy work for people with mental illnesses that could also give me away whether I mention it on the app or not. Again, these are things that I think SHOULD strengthen my application, as I think I can really reach and help a lot of people with my plans, but is just the knowledge that I have OCD a kiss of death for most medical schools?

Additionally, I'm older (almost 36). I had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s, which I will be by the time I apply to med schools. Right now, I'm applying to master's programs in BME, which will hopefully give me a fresh set of med school recommendations and basically prove that I am still capable of academic success. I was going to apply to medical school next year or the year after.

So am I just screwed? I don't see how I can leave my OCD out of my application when it is such a huge part of my story and shaped why I want to be a doctor.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[biomom]

I’d advise you not to mention it. In grad school for counseling, my classmates and I did not discuss our own mental health issues. I would have never mentioned anything in my application or to my internship supervisor etc. it’s just the way the world is.

 

[Crayola227]

You need to come up with some other way to discuss this, and minimize it, just to get in.

The book is an awful idea.

I'm probably more pro-people-w/-MH-issues than a lot of docs when it comes to admissions, and still I gotta say, that despite agreeing with most of what you said, I still found myself cringing at some of it, because I can just imagine how it will be received.

A big point, is that a lot of us had lackluster experiences with the healthcare system, but attacking the field is basically the norm these days and most docs are sick if it, and it just doesn't read well. One needs to find a way to talk about how they're on a crusade to fix the system without coming off like they're attacking their docs/other providers for being incompetent. It doesn't matter that some are and we all know it, these attacks from lay people on the establishment never read well. Remember your audience.

You have a very fine needle to thread to discuss how the system let you down without. Perhaps your SDN post wasn't as carefully worded as your intended book will be, but if it's any indication I am extremely concerned what you will do to your own admission chances with it.

 

[chicandtoughness]

I’d advise you not to mention it. In grad school for counseling, my classmates and I did not discuss our own mental health issues. I would have never mentioned anything in my application or to my internship supervisor etc. it’s just the way the world is.

YMMV I think. My entire SOP for my masters program in counseling was focused on my lived experience with mental health issues, and a big part of my interview focused on that too. I've disclosed in all of my internship interviews. I've gotten acceptances to all the masters programs I applied for, several PsyD and PhD programs, every internship I've applied for, etc. It has been an asset to me and I wouldn't take any of that back.

I know med school has a different outlook and I don't plan on being as blatant in my disclosure. But personally, it is such a large part of me and informs my philosophy on patient care. If a med school is going to reject me based on issues I've had in the past, then that's probably not a med school I want to attend anyways. It doesn't bode well for how they would handle any struggles that arise when I'm a student.

 

[biomom]

I guess I am just a more private person professionally. Many of my peers are as well. I have several LPCC friends that post openly on Facebook about their suicide attempts and eating disorders. I think it’s a bad idea. One thing that was very commonly discussed by my peers during school was their alcohol and drug addiction. Tbh, these people got less respect. During psychopathology, some people commented on diagnoses they had. Sometimes it was ok but a lot of the time you left feeling like their struggles were too great to effectively practice. I kept my issues private.

 

[Crayola227]

Unfortunately it also goes to the idea of professional and interpersonal boundaries - and while you may do a BETTER job next to the next guy who had no mental health challenges, the idea is that every professional does a competent job while leaving their own issues at the door.

A lot of people are going to say that having struggled and overcame mental health issues isn't *requisite* to being an outstanding clinician. OTOH, objectivity, boundaries, etc *are* requisite. So the person with nothing to disclose comes out ahead of the person who wears it all on their sleeve inappropriately in this metric.

Basically, you need to be able to "pass" as someone totally "normal" - an authority figure. It doesn't meet with general acceptance some of these struggles/issues, and maintaining that "facade" is part of what is selected for, because in some ways it's needed. You can't have Imposter Syndrome without acting like an imposter - something that you're not. Every doc in some ways is acting like something more than they really are. Every doc is struggling with their more maladaptive coping skills and still trying to come off as close to "perfect" as they can manage despite it. Every doc is covering up pain of some kind or another. How good you are at the cover up, is the whole point.

"If others get into medical school without these struggles, then why can't you?" Is something someone reading this stuff might think. You should be able to. The case for you being a physician should stand on its merits and not just what you "overcame," but what you *achieved* independent of context as well. It should come as a total surprise to everyone in the professional sphere (potential future colleagues and patients alike) that you come from some of these backgrounds better left private. There's a way to disclose these things that does you more credit than harm, but again, it's threading a needle.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

I don't recommend it. The stigma is real and there will be people on adcoms who will make negative assumptions about you. I have bipolar and I took several years off from school as a result. You can tell admissions you had a health issue and they really aren't allowed to ask you more. If you're curious, I'm a first year at a DO school now and I can't wait until I'm a successful doctor to begin advocacy similar to what you're mentioning. But until we "prove ourselves", we unfortunately don't have a ton credibility. Don't risk your ability to help people and have a successful career on your desire for full disclosure now. Play the game!

 

[Rapsidy]

I think it’s fine to mention as long as you one don’t make it the main point of the app and 2 talk about how you overcame it.

I made a paragraph in my personal statement about a sexual assault I went through in undergrad and the major depression I struggled with afterwards and focused on what I did to overcome it and be stronger afterwards. It helped explain why I had a semester of horrible grades.

Keep it minimal and positive and show how you’ve taken this “weakness” and thrived despite it and you’ll be okay.

 

[Redpancreas]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about how we shouldn't disclose mental illness on our applications. However, I don't see how I can't tbh.

I have OCD that was once very severe. I couldn't even leave the house for years (ages 27-32). During that time, I started a freelance writing and editing business, which is what I am still doing now.

My anxiety issues caused a lot of trouble even before that, during undergrad - though I graduated with a 3.9 (I was pre-med), I had to take a semester off because I couldn't handle my classes. I tried to get help, but no one took it seriously or helped. All that the school shrinks did was make me take time off of school, while not doing a thing to address the underlying issue or even refer me to anyone who could. I didn't even get an official diagnosis until years after I graduated, and then it took years to get to the point where I was functional again.

If I don't mention it, I feel like it would leave a bunch of holes in my story. I would have no explanation for why I had to take a semester off in undergrad, and it would be really random that I was working as a writer for years when I was always interested in medicine. And the thing is, I don't see it as a "weakness." I see it as a strength - I had an illness that I never asked for, and I recovered against all odds, when even my therapists were saying I was a lost cause. I also feel that the fact that I have dealt with this means that I am more prepared for medical school, because I have learned how to manage my condition. Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it, and I would. Yet they would be considered more attractive candidates? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, I really just feel that my experience has made me a better person. It humbled me and made me so much more empathetic than I was before I struggled with severe mental illness. Also, because of my own experiences with incompetent therapists and doctors who didn't help me when they could have saved me years of struggles by addressing it early on, I know just how broken the system is and want to be part of what changes that - if I could stop just one person from going through what I did, I would consider that a success.

I can definitely see how medical schools wouldn't want people who are still struggling with debilitating mental illness. I know firsthand that someone who doesn't have a condition like mine under control couldn't handle school. But when it's someone who has done the work and learned how to manage it, refusing to consider them just because they have overcome a mental disorder just seems like flat-out discrimination to me.

I'm also planning to write a book about my experience before applying - which, if published, would make it so that it is public knowledge that I have OCD. And I want to do other advocacy work for people with mental illnesses that could also give me away whether I mention it on the app or not. Again, these are things that I think SHOULD strengthen my application, as I think I can really reach and help a lot of people with my plans, but is just the knowledge that I have OCD a kiss of death for most medical schools?

Additionally, I'm older (almost 36). I had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s, which I will be by the time I apply to med schools. Right now, I'm applying to master's programs in BME, which will hopefully give me a fresh set of med school recommendations and basically prove that I am still capable of academic success. I was going to apply to medical school next year or the year after.

So am I just screwed? I don't see how I can leave my OCD out of my application when it is such a huge part of my story and shaped why I want to be a doctor.

1. Ignore your professor. This sounds like his own opinion and speculation to me. Every case is different.

2. I love the sentiment behind TragicalDrFaust's post. Like both that poster and Crayola say, limit it to a sanitized version. Admissions are unfair and there are bound to be judgmental people who've not been through half of what you have reading your application. Continue with your advocacy work...after you complete medical training. Put that on the back burner while you're still training. You'll be able to do more for the population you wish to benefit after once you're a newly minted attending.

3. Lastly, make sure you're mental health condition is under control before medical school and make sure you have a support network. You can make it work!

 

[Goro]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about how we shouldn't disclose mental illness on our applications. However, I don't see how I can't tbh.

I have OCD that was once very severe. I couldn't even leave the house for years (ages 27-32). During that time, I started a freelance writing and editing business, which is what I am still doing now.

My anxiety issues caused a lot of trouble even before that, during undergrad - though I graduated with a 3.9 (I was pre-med), I had to take a semester off because I couldn't handle my classes. I tried to get help, but no one took it seriously or helped. All that the school shrinks did was make me take time off of school, while not doing a thing to address the underlying issue or even refer me to anyone who could. I didn't even get an official diagnosis until years after I graduated, and then it took years to get to the point where I was functional again.

If I don't mention it, I feel like it would leave a bunch of holes in my story. I would have no explanation for why I had to take a semester off in undergrad, and it would be really random that I was working as a writer for years when I was always interested in medicine. And the thing is, I don't see it as a "weakness." I see it as a strength - I had an illness that I never asked for, and I recovered against all odds, when even my therapists were saying I was a lost cause. I also feel that the fact that I have dealt with this means that I am more prepared for medical school, because I have learned how to manage my condition. Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it, and I would. Yet they would be considered more attractive candidates? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, I really just feel that my experience has made me a better person. It humbled me and made me so much more empathetic than I was before I struggled with severe mental illness. Also, because of my own experiences with incompetent therapists and doctors who didn't help me when they could have saved me years of struggles by addressing it early on, I know just how broken the system is and want to be part of what changes that - if I could stop just one person from going through what I did, I would consider that a success.

I can definitely see how medical schools wouldn't want people who are still struggling with debilitating mental illness. I know firsthand that someone who doesn't have a condition like mine under control couldn't handle school. But when it's someone who has done the work and learned how to manage it, refusing to consider them just because they have overcome a mental disorder just seems like flat-out discrimination to me.

I'm also planning to write a book about my experience before applying - which, if published, would make it so that it is public knowledge that I have OCD. And I want to do other advocacy work for people with mental illnesses that could also give me away whether I mention it on the app or not. Again, these are things that I think SHOULD strengthen my application, as I think I can really reach and help a lot of people with my plans, but is just the knowledge that I have OCD a kiss of death for most medical schools?

Additionally, I'm older (almost 36). I had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s, which I will be by the time I apply to med schools. Right now, I'm applying to master's programs in BME, which will hopefully give me a fresh set of med school recommendations and basically prove that I am still capable of academic success. I was going to apply to medical school next year or the year after.

So am I just screwed? I don't see how I can leave my OCD out of my application when it is such a huge part of my story and shaped why I want to be a doctor.

Personally, I get nervous when people mention mental health issues UNLESS they have a long stretch of good academics to show those issues have resolved.

Just make sure that your issues are under 100% control. Medical school is a furnace, and I've seen it break even healthy students. The #1 reason my school loses students to withdrawal, dismissal or LOA is to unresolved mental health issues.


had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s,
Some of my all time best students have been in their 30s and 40s. I graduated one at 50 a few years ago; she's an attending in CA now.

 

[chicandtoughness]

I guess I am just a more private person professionally. Many of my peers are as well. I have several LPCC friends that post openly on Facebook about their suicide attempts and eating disorders. I think it’s a bad idea. One thing that was very commonly discussed by my peers during school was their alcohol and drug addiction. Tbh, these people got less respect. During psychopathology, some people commented on diagnoses they had. Sometimes it was ok but a lot of the time you left feeling like their struggles were too great to effectively practice. I kept my issues private.

That's fair. I think it also depends on what setting and population you practice in. I'm both an LMHC and a LADC (alcohol/drug/chemical dependency counselor, not sure what your state calls them). In substance abuse, it's almost blasphemous to NOT disclose your sobriety to the patients. They're definitely going to ask, and they're going to think you're shady af if you decline to answer. Certain models of eating disorder treatment also lean on recovered staff. I would never disclose some of my more "extreme" diagnoses, but for things like substance use and eating disorders, which have a definitive "end" to them (sobriety, being clean, being recovered), I don't mind disclosing.

But goodness I would NEVER post on social media about it. All the better, as I don't even own any social media accounts 🙂

 

[biomom]

It really is population dependent. I was able to minimize personal disclosures when I worked, which felt like healthy boundaries. I did not work with populations where self-disclosure would have necessarily been appropriate (children and families and a lot of autism). My boss outed me as a parent of 2 children with autism to one of the parents I saw who had an autistic son. This was done without my permission which was somewhat upsetting, but it brought about a good conversation with the client who reported feeling like she could now share anything with me. Self-disclosure isn’t all bad. I’m just not sure I would do it on a med school or residency application.

 

[Dave1980]

Do not mention. IMO it will be viewed as unprofessional and will be held against you.

People with mental illness commonly relapse especially when placed under stress.

Find a way to address the gaps and career change without discussing your mental health.

 

[AndiMcKee]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about how we shouldn't disclose mental illness on our applications. However, I don't see how I can't tbh.

I have OCD that was once very severe. I couldn't even leave the house for years (ages 27-32). During that time, I started a freelance writing and editing business, which is what I am still doing now.

My anxiety issues caused a lot of trouble even before that, during undergrad - though I graduated with a 3.9 (I was pre-med), I had to take a semester off because I couldn't handle my classes. I tried to get help, but no one took it seriously or helped. All that the school shrinks did was make me take time off of school, while not doing a thing to address the underlying issue or even refer me to anyone who could. I didn't even get an official diagnosis until years after I graduated, and then it took years to get to the point where I was functional again.

If I don't mention it, I feel like it would leave a bunch of holes in my story. I would have no explanation for why I had to take a semester off in undergrad, and it would be really random that I was working as a writer for years when I was always interested in medicine. And the thing is, I don't see it as a "weakness." I see it as a strength - I had an illness that I never asked for, and I recovered against all odds, when even my therapists were saying I was a lost cause. I also feel that the fact that I have dealt with this means that I am more prepared for medical school, because I have learned how to manage my condition. Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it, and I would. Yet they would be considered more attractive candidates? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, I really just feel that my experience has made me a better person. It humbled me and made me so much more empathetic than I was before I struggled with severe mental illness. Also, because of my own experiences with incompetent therapists and doctors who didn't help me when they could have saved me years of struggles by addressing it early on, I know just how broken the system is and want to be part of what changes that - if I could stop just one person from going through what I did, I would consider that a success.

I can definitely see how medical schools wouldn't want people who are still struggling with debilitating mental illness. I know firsthand that someone who doesn't have a condition like mine under control couldn't handle school. But when it's someone who has done the work and learned how to manage it, refusing to consider them just because they have overcome a mental disorder just seems like flat-out discrimination to me.

I'm also planning to write a book about my experience before applying - which, if published, would make it so that it is public knowledge that I have OCD. And I want to do other advocacy work for people with mental illnesses that could also give me away whether I mention it on the app or not. Again, these are things that I think SHOULD strengthen my application, as I think I can really reach and help a lot of people with my plans, but is just the knowledge that I have OCD a kiss of death for most medical schools?

Additionally, I'm older (almost 36). I had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s, which I will be by the time I apply to med schools. Right now, I'm applying to master's programs in BME, which will hopefully give me a fresh set of med school recommendations and basically prove that I am still capable of academic success. I was going to apply to medical school next year or the year after.

So am I just screwed? I don't see how I can leave my OCD out of my application when it is such a huge part of my story and shaped why I want to be a doctor.

First, congratulations on getting so much better! That took a lot of strength and hard work.

Unfortunately, there is still a lot of ignorance in the world where mental health is concerned, and this extends to admissions committees. It isn't right that there are people who will see your experience as a negative and count it against you, but this is a reality.

The safe bet would be to not mention it at all. Explain the semester off by saying you had a medical issue that has since been resolved, and just say you have been a writer for several years and you have now decided to go back to medicine. Don't make it look like you're defending your time working in a different field because there is nothing wrong with working in a different field - you're still young and can have a long career in medicine.

I will say that if you frame it just right, it could help you stand out. By that, I mean don't focus on it too much, just mention it briefly if they ask about any unique life experiences or dealing with adversity. But if you go that route, don't act like it defines you and is your sole reason for going into medicine. Focus much, much more on your academic and career accomplishments. DEFINITELY don't have it dominate your essay.

It looks like there are mixed results on this to be honest. Some will say it's a kiss of death to mention any history of mental illness, but there are people who talked about it and got accepted. So that leads me to believe it's a matter of how you frame it and the luck of the draw (who ends up reading it).

If you're looking for a way to stand out, I would advise you to find some other way. What can you do now before you apply to med school that will strengthen your application?

As for the book, maybe you can write it once you're already in the field? A book about OCD is going to carry much more weight coming from someone with "MD" behind their name anyway.

 

[R. Matey]

I second, third, fourth what others said about keeping it brief to explain a circumstance. Also @Crayola227, your avatar is quiet choice. Much respect from one Whovian to another.

 

[esob]

All I can say is, avoid at all costs. There is still a pervasive stigma against not just mental illness, but ableness in general. If I were a quadriplegic due to saving an orphanage and received the medal of honor, I wouldn't disclose it. I'm sure that somewhere there is a member of an adcom committee who would see it as a strength but I believe the vast majority would see it as a detriment. I'm not saying it's right, because I don't feel it reflects good critical reasoning, but I am saying I think that it is the norm.

 

[Sky138]

If the only thing adcoms remember about you is that you’ve dealt with ocd, do you think that puts you on favorable light?

 

[deleted367183]

Gotta nth the advice to avoid. I only told my med school when I had to take a semester off for depression. Only told my residency when I had trouble getting my Massachusetts license (watch out! Licensing difficulties are coming!). I only talk about mental illness here on SDN now that I've got my fellowship lined up.

I have a close friend with refractory OCD, so I know what it can do. I wish my advice were different.

 

[deleted1065262]

You need to come up with some other way to discuss this, and minimize it, just to get in.

The book is an awful idea.

I'm probably more pro-people-w/-MH-issues than a lot of docs when it comes to admissions, and still I gotta say, that despite agreeing with most of what you said, I still found myself cringing at some of it, because I can just imagine how it will be received.

A big point, is that a lot of us had lackluster experiences with the healthcare system, but attacking the field is basically the norm these days and most docs are sick if it, and it just doesn't read well. One needs to find a way to talk about how they're on a crusade to fix the system without coming off like they're attacking their docs/other providers for being incompetent. It doesn't matter that some are and we all know it, these attacks from lay people on the establishment never read well. Remember your audience.

You have a very fine needle to thread to discuss how the system let you down without. Perhaps your SDN post wasn't as carefully worded as your intended book will be, but if it's any indication I am extremely concerned what you will do to your own admission chances with it.

This.

Personally I have struggled this semester due to being a retail worker in this pandemic at a store that has many preexisting issue that amplify everything. I will say my struggles do not compare to a healthcare workers.

I plan to minimize this as much as possible. Not everyone will agree with this, but it is what I will do because I think it is best.

If that does not work I will try to go into education that will allow me to pursue pharmaceutical research.

Now, I do understand the urge to want to be open. However, one must think about what is best for them.

My feeling now is maybe at the end of your career open up and try to change things. I could of course be wrong.

Understand that there is still a lot of bias, and we need to deal with it in a way that actually works out for us. It might not be in a way we want to deal with it.

I hesitate to be this open myself...but I am anon on here so in the end it probably does not matter.

I wish you well in whatever you choose!!

 

[Things1and2]

If the only thing adcoms remember about you is that you’ve dealt with ocd, do you think that puts you on favorable light?

Why do you assume that the only thing adcoms would remember about me is that I've dealt with OCD? As I said, I graduated with a 3.9. I had three majors and three minors. I was in several different organizations, some of which gave me leadership positions.

Also, I wouldn't talk about how I've dealt with OCD and that's it. The focus would be on how I overcame it. Which I did despite all odds - all of my therapists have written me off as a lost cause, so I actually had to do the work largely on my own. Anyone who sees that as a negative rather than a positive simply doesn't understand mental illness and how hard it is to overcome, that's all there is to it.

 

[Things1and2]

Do not mention. IMO it will be viewed as unprofessional and will be held against you.

People with mental illness commonly relapse especially when placed under stress.

Find a way to address the gaps and career change without discussing your mental health.

How is it unprofessional when I'm just answering a question? Most applications actually have a section where they ask you if there is anything that sets you apart and makes you unique, such as obstacles overcome. Am I supposed to just make something else up for those answers and pretend that I never had a mental illness at all?

 

[Crayola227]

Why do you assume that the only thing adcoms would remember about me is that I've dealt with OCD? As I said, I graduated with a 3.9. I had three majors and three minors. I was in several different organizations, some of which gave me leadership positions.

Also, I wouldn't talk about how I've dealt with OCD and that's it. The focus would be on how I overcame it. Which I did despite all odds - all of my therapists have written me off as a lost cause, so I actually had to do the work largely on my own. Anyone who sees that as a negative rather than a positive simply doesn't understand mental illness and how hard it is to overcome, that's all there is to it.

You don't like hearing that an ADCOM might remember you saying you had nearly intractable OCD vs your achievements, which do in fact stand out.

They are always looking out for "what is going to be this otherwise qualified candidate's hurdle to graduation" and you've just given them a huge one.

There are always going to be people who achieved as much as you, and with no discernable mental illness *apparent* on their app. You are literally banking on the fact you overcame (in your estimation), being considered more positively than someone similar but without, and not as a detriment. Helluva gamble to make on risk-averse strangers.

Some people think it is unprofessional to bring up your personal mental medical stuff at all Sorry but that's the truth. Those people certainly exist on adcoms.

Some people are going to look at you and see someone stronger than the next guy with a 3.9 (which isn't as special as you seem to think it is) and others will someone with a potential weakness.

If your app is so special, then why do you need to try to use this?

One thing people do understand about mental health, or really many chronic conditions, is that you can't always control them. Period.

If it were me, I would try to get in without talking about this (most people only bring up mental health stuff because there's no other good way to put their performance in context, to explain reinvention perhaps).

 

[Crayola227]

What you do us ultimately up to you, but I don't think you're going to change the facts that these opinions are based on.

Fact: some adcom will see discussing personal mental health hurdles as less than professional. Some adcom will see weakness and not strength.

The stigma is real and it's a bitter pill. There are of course underdog stories, people that revealed hooking for heroin (real life example...well, maybe they didn't mention hooking) and got in. Although I wouldn't doubt that they couldn't have explained their path to application well any other way.

 

[deleted367183]

To give a real-life example of coming out on the other side, I am now in residency and just got tapped to work on an autopsy study of suicide. (I had mentioned an interest in "psychiatry," lol.) But in order to do this I had to get into med school and match into residency, which would never have happened had I talked about my own mental illness on my apps.

 

[Things1and2]

Some people are going to look at you and see someone stronger than the next guy with a 3.9 (which isn't as special as you seem to think it is) and others will someone with a potential weakness.

If your app is so special, then why do you need to try to use this?

Responses like this make me think that people here aren't that interested in actually giving helpful answers. There was no need for you to spit on my accomplishments like that. Or maybe they aren't special. I'm sure all of you had three majors and three minors and got a 3.9, because, you know, that's such an easy thing to do. Especially when you're dealing with untreated mental illness.

My entire point wasn't that my app is "so special." It's that my story is. Without telling my story, I'm just another generic nontraditional applicant who had fairly good numbers once upon a time and took an inexplicably long break from medicine.

So what am I supposed to do in response to the question where they ask me about things that set me apart and unique experiences that have shaped my decision to enter medicine? Just lie and pretend that I never had a mental illness at all? How is it "unprofessional" to simply honestly answer a question?

 

[Goro]

Responses like this make me think that people here aren't that interested in actually giving helpful answers. There was no need for you to spit on my accomplishments like that. Or maybe they aren't special. I'm sure all of you had three majors and three minors and got a 3.9, because, you know, that's such an easy thing to do. Especially when you're dealing with untreated mental illness.

My entire point wasn't that my app is "so special." It's that my story is. Without telling my story, I'm just another generic nontraditional applicant who had fairly good numbers once upon a time and took an inexplicably long break from medicine.

So what am I supposed to do in response to the question where they ask me about things that set me apart and unique experiences that have shaped my decision to enter medicine? Just lie and pretend that I never had a mental illness at all? How is it "unprofessional" to simply honestly answer a question?

You have been given helpful answers.

They're just not the ones you want to hear.

It deems like you're dead set on discussing your history in your application, so at this point, I suggest that you do so, and report back to us next year on how it works out for you.

 

[deleted1065262]

You have been given helpful answers.

They're just not the ones you want to hear.

It deems like you're dead set on discussing your history in your application, so at this point, I suggest that you do so, and report back to us next year on how it works out for you.

See, I can understand wanting to be the one that overcomes the stigma. But there are times you have to make allowances and do what will look good.

I will say people can come out the other side on a lot of things, but not everything.

Also, if you have any disability and/or mental health issue (or really any health issue) you need to have some sort of backup plan if medical school does not work out. For me I mentioned I want to go into pharmaceutical research (particularly psychopharmacology research).

Like, I think the answers here are fair. But they are not what OP wanted to hear. But sometimes we need to hear what we don't want to hear.

I wish you well OP!!

 

[Dave1980]

How is it unprofessional when I'm just answering a question? Most applications actually have a section where they ask you if there is anything that sets you apart and makes you unique, such as obstacles overcome. Am I supposed to just make something else up for those answers and pretend that I never had a mental illness at all?

It shows that you don't understand what professional boundaries are. Also living with mental illness doesn't actually set you apart in this day and age when so many people have anxiety/depression and are medicated.

They all just have the good sense not to talk about it with colleagues and only do so with friends, family, therapists.

 

[Candidate2017]

Mental illness is relatively common, including among med students and physicians. Beware the person judging your application may have navigated even more severe mental illness during 7+ years of rigorous med school/training without taking time off. You may get empathy, but probably not sympathy for taking undergrad off.

Also, everyone here has given good advice, which you dismiss and take as a personal affront. I'm guessing you've done the same with your prior therapists and psychiatrists, because it's unlikely all of them have been dismissive and uncaring. Sure, I do find many non-PhD therapists to be incompetent. By that, I mean they do a poor job with transference, countertransference and resistance, and are easily manipulated into feeling the same helplessness and rage as their patients. That said, college mental health professionals are very caring people with a passion for working with a difficult patient population, for very low pay.

 

[hmockingbird]

I have a minor (visible) physical disability that has little real impact on my ability to do my job (or even live my life) minus some very minor tweaks yet has continued to be a frustrating hurdle for me throughout my career in medicine. I did address it very briefly and vaguely on my app for similar reasons (felt that it was integral to my decision to pursue medicine), but I am not sure if I would again now having been in the field. (In my case, though, there is the added aspect of a visible disability so it may be smarter to get in front of the narrative.) I don’t think anyone is trying to be discouraging about your actual ability to succeed just stating that the stigma is real. And it’s worse for mental health than physical disability.

 

[Mr. Nightmare]

Mental illness is relatively common, including among med students and physicians. Beware the person judging your application may have navigated even more severe mental illness during 7+ years of rigorous med school/training without taking time off. You may get empathy, but probably not sympathy for taking undergrad off.

Also, everyone here has given good advice, which you dismiss and take as a personal affront. I'm guessing you've done the same with your prior therapists and psychiatrists, because it's unlikely all of them have been dismissive and uncaring. Sure, I do find many non-PhD therapists to be incompetent. By that, I mean they do a poor job with transference, countertransference and resistance, and are easily manipulated into feeling the same helplessness and rage as their patients. That said, college mental health professionals are very caring people with a passion for working with a difficult patient population, for very low pay.

I agree with your point in this post. But, other than that, I think there are many, many sweeping generalizations in this post.

One, I think it is unfair to state that it is unlikely that their were problems with every therapist/psychiatrist. I have gone to psychologists and psychiatrists before, during, and after med school. Sometimes, it really takes awhile to find one that you connect with. I have had to try many before I found the right one. I have had a couple of emotionally abusive therapists.

Two, there are also mental health professionals that abuse clients. I know other cases where this has happened too. I used to work in this field before.

Three, it is a sweeping generalization to ASSUME that college mental health professionals are very caring people. Hell, I've experienced the exact opposite. I've found that the university counseling center at my former undergraduate school was the WORST place one could get counseling. In fact, it was at the university's counseling center where I experienced emotional abuse. I got out of there as soon as I discovered it. I learned later that some of them really shouldn't have been working in mental health. Oh my God! Some of them were so EFFFED up!!!

 

[deleted1065262]

I agree with your point in this post. But, other than that, I think there are many, many sweeping generalizations in this post.

One, I think it is unfair to state that it is unlikely that their were problems with every therapist/psychiatrist. I have gone to psychologists and psychiatrists before, during, and after med school. Sometimes, it really takes awhile to find one that you connect with. I have had to try many before I found the right one. I have had a couple of emotionally abusive therapists.

Two, there are also mental health professionals that abuse clients. I know other cases where this has happened too. I used to work in this field before.

Three, it is a sweeping generalization to ASSUME that college mental health professionals are very caring people. Hell, I've experienced the exact opposite. I've found that the university counseling center at my former undergraduate school was the WORST place one could get counseling. In fact, it was at the university's counseling center where I experienced emotional abuse. I got out of there as soon as I discovered it. I learned later that some of them really shouldn't have been working in mental health. Oh my God! Some of them were so EFFFED up!!!

I agree it takes awhile to find someone who is right for you. But IDK if that means there is a problem with the therapist/doctor as in they are bad at their job.

And there are people who are abusive in those professions. Just like any profession.

Also, for the college MH counselors it probably depends on your school. I would ask around and maybe search for reviews online before going if I were OP. Now they have sites that review professors/instructors so I would think there may be something like that for college MH counselors. Again, maybe depends on the school...IDK that every counselor would have a review. Just a thought.

In any case, I do wish for the best for OP!!

 

[jhmmd]

I've seen a lot of threads on here about how we shouldn't disclose mental illness on our applications. However, I don't see how I can't tbh.

I have OCD that was once very severe. I couldn't even leave the house for years (ages 27-32). During that time, I started a freelance writing and editing business, which is what I am still doing now.

My anxiety issues caused a lot of trouble even before that, during undergrad - though I graduated with a 3.9 (I was pre-med), I had to take a semester off because I couldn't handle my classes. I tried to get help, but no one took it seriously or helped. All that the school shrinks did was make me take time off of school, while not doing a thing to address the underlying issue or even refer me to anyone who could. I didn't even get an official diagnosis until years after I graduated, and then it took years to get to the point where I was functional again.

If I don't mention it, I feel like it would leave a bunch of holes in my story. I would have no explanation for why I had to take a semester off in undergrad, and it would be really random that I was working as a writer for years when I was always interested in medicine. And the thing is, I don't see it as a "weakness." I see it as a strength - I had an illness that I never asked for, and I recovered against all odds, when even my therapists were saying I was a lost cause. I also feel that the fact that I have dealt with this means that I am more prepared for medical school, because I have learned how to manage my condition. Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it, and I would. Yet they would be considered more attractive candidates? That doesn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, I really just feel that my experience has made me a better person. It humbled me and made me so much more empathetic than I was before I struggled with severe mental illness. Also, because of my own experiences with incompetent therapists and doctors who didn't help me when they could have saved me years of struggles by addressing it early on, I know just how broken the system is and want to be part of what changes that - if I could stop just one person from going through what I did, I would consider that a success.

I can definitely see how medical schools wouldn't want people who are still struggling with debilitating mental illness. I know firsthand that someone who doesn't have a condition like mine under control couldn't handle school. But when it's someone who has done the work and learned how to manage it, refusing to consider them just because they have overcome a mental disorder just seems like flat-out discrimination to me.

I'm also planning to write a book about my experience before applying - which, if published, would make it so that it is public knowledge that I have OCD. And I want to do other advocacy work for people with mental illnesses that could also give me away whether I mention it on the app or not. Again, these are things that I think SHOULD strengthen my application, as I think I can really reach and help a lot of people with my plans, but is just the knowledge that I have OCD a kiss of death for most medical schools?

Additionally, I'm older (almost 36). I had a professor recently tell me that medical schools aren't really interested in people past their mid-30s, which I will be by the time I apply to med schools. Right now, I'm applying to master's programs in BME, which will hopefully give me a fresh set of med school recommendations and basically prove that I am still capable of academic success. I was going to apply to medical school next year or the year after.

So am I just screwed? I don't see how I can leave my OCD out of my application when it is such a huge part of my story and shaped why I want to be a doctor.

1. Med schools want people who can help others. If you don't have your own health in order, you can't help someone else.
2. Your book is a great idea and I hope that it gives other people hope. If you really like writing, you might want to pursue this as a career instead--just an idea.
3. Writing about OCD in secondaries/in your PS/talking about it in interviews seems like a faux pas to me, bluntly speaking
4. It is not discrimination to require med students to be able to deal with stress, much less mental illness. Call and the training involved in order to become a doctor is very stressful--like all jobs. And going back to this,

Plenty of people with squeaky clean histories could have mental illness right beneath the surface that flares up under the stress of medical school - the difference between them and me is that they would have no idea how to handle it

5. Med schools are free to admit who they want to. The sad truth is that they will only admit those who know how to handle it.

 

[Dral]

I interview for residency positions (fewer people than adcoms for med schools interview), and we use what we can to remember people. I can tell you that you will stand out for this if you disclose. It is human nature for us to think people will remember us, but when it is that many, it just doesn't happen. I don't even remember how many AKs I treated on a PT at 9am if I have to write the note at noon. Remembering someone for other than a standout is difficult for most. The question will be is the stand out remembered in a positive or negative way.

As others have alluded to, it will likely be in a more negative way I think. I interview for derm and all them have stellar scores/grades/achievements. Sometimes to separate someone out, we note a super positive ("Oh, yah, the guy who was the olympic pole vaulter!) or a negative (strange at interview, failed a course, odd LoR, interrupted too many people at the dinner, etc). The fact that someone is an Olympic pole vaulter typically doesn't necessarily help them a ton in getting into derm. It helps us remember them. Overcoming adversity is excellent, but if it's perceived that adversity could rear it's ugly head again...well, that could spell trouble (I hope it never does!).

If you are confident that your story will stick as a positive, then by all means. Just please proceed with caution. We're honestly here to help you think about this critically. One thing you can always expect from SDN is brutal honesty opposed to a rallying cheer. As much as we would all like to say "Good for you, you overcame it, tell the world about it" (and trust me, it is great you've done it), there is a game to play and the game is getting into medical school.


Another way to look at it is this:

Scenario 1: You disclose. You flourish in med school. Ad com takes the time to follow you through and says to themselves "See, that person with prior mental health issues did well. We will welcome more with prior mental health issues". I doubt that a typical ad com would actually take the time to follow through...once you're in, you're just one of the crowd.

Scenario 2: You disclose. You don't do well and have to take leave of absence (I hope this wouldn't happen). If this happens, dean knows about it and probably lets ad com know. Ad com says "See, we never should have admitted that person with mental health issues. We need to watch for that in the future".

Not knowing what med school is all about, give it some considerable thought (I'm sure you have/are). Are you confident enough that you are past this and can make it through the rigors? If you are, then maybe it's ok to disclose it. If not and you falter, you may have just made it even more difficult for others in the future.

Basically the gist of the story is that the negatives are more prominent to people than the positives. I wish it wasn't that way and I hope you can work to change that, but for now, that's how it is at many places unfortunately. Best of luck and keep us updated.

 

[Mr. Nightmare]

OP I think you are going off on a tangent in your essays. Remember that you are trying to explain to them why you want to become a physician and you want to show proof that you can handle their curriculum. So, when it comes to the portion of having overcome difficulties, you might want to state that you dealt with a health issue (not stating the issue) and have improved to the point were you were able to focus on school, volunteering, research, and getting a good MCAT score. And they will see proof of this, when they review your application.

Again, just remember that your MAIN FOCUS is WHY YOU WANT TO ATTEND MED SCHOOL and that you want to prove to them that you are capable of doing so.

I believe everyone is trying to tell you to not lose focus by going off on a tangent about your experience with treatment and treatment providers.