Discouraged California Student

[CycleCA]

So I've been reading about admissions policies at many many different schools, and it looks like public universities only admit in state residents, and that basically if you're out of state (OOS) you're SOL (s*** out of luck). The problem is that I'm from CA, where admission to the UC's is next to impossible. Anyone know a loophole for this? How can I get into a decent med school without relocating to backwater, USA to claim residence? Which states have the smallest wait-time to claim residence? What are the decent postbacs that link with decent med school progs for someone like me from CA who doesn't want to move back east to go to goucher or bryn mawr?

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[hle007]

Wait, so CA medical schools are impossible to get into???? I am thinking of moving to CA to do my post-bacc and get a job there while I wait to get CA residency.

 

[CycleCA]

Wait, so CA medical schools are impossible to get into???? I am thinking of moving to CA to do my post-bacc and get a job there while I wait to get CA residency.

The public university system in CA is ridiculously hard to get into. Where were you going to do your post bac? For economically disadvantaged/URM (under represented minorities) it might be easier. The reason is that the UC system has so many applicants from in state, and only so many schools. There were about 5000 applicants in california in 2007, and each and every one applied to a UC. This was more than double any other state.

 

[Dabyachunv]

Hey, I understand the many reasons you may have for not wanting to relocate, I share the same. Perhaps try schools in neighboring states, sometimes (and hopefully) the seclusion will help you. I am in Long island NY, and now I will have to move to conn. or jersey, but you can always go home on weekends, ect. If your situation is not very complicated (ie married and kids) give the other schools a chance, you never know. Apply broadly, and prepare to move if you have to, remember its only for a year or two.

Talk to people on the admission board and try to figure out what else you can do, besides applying early.

Try private? lol to backwater usa though-good one.

 

[hle007]

So how would you rate the UC post-bacc programs? They're for under-represented group? I think I qualify for that.

Please tell me more of the pros and cons and your experience of the programs.

Are the classes hard? Competitive? Can you take the classes and still manage to work part-time? Are there links to medical schools?

 

[CycleCA]

So how would you rate the UC post-bacc programs? They're for under-represented group? I think I qualify for that.

Please tell me more of the pros and cons and your experience of the programs.

Are the classes hard? Competitive? Can you take the classes and still manage to work part-time? Are there links to medical schools?

I wouldn't know, I'm not an under-represented minority with poor parents. I am, however, financially disadvantaged despite coming from an upper middle class family. It's too bad they don't look at W2's when making the decision, eh? Working and going to school IS poverty. That's my rant, but anyways on to your question.
It might be worth it to start a new thread about the UC postbac's, I'm sure someone on here has had some experience with them. And to qualify as a URM, last I checked, you have to be african american, hispanic (mexican), or puerto rican. No, being asian, east asian, southeast asian, or any kind of asian doesn't count. Neither does being filipino, indian, fijian, polynesian, kama sutrian, bangladese, or any other variation of the countries and/or islands on or around the Asian and European continents.

 

[hle007]

That sucks cause I am Asian.

 

[Nasrudin]

Look without getting into the nonsense of racial competition which, does not in reality, model of the admissions process, the issue is not simply advantage or disadvantage. It is the obvious matter of preventing the racial composition of a profession from being unrepresentative of the population it seeks to serve.


It be best to concentrate more on guarding yourself from the general pervasive bitterness that can subsume the dynamics of human competition when the number of losers far outweighs the winners.


Expect to see minorities from cushy backgrounds sailing through to the upper echelons of the system while riding the tide of their relative racial absence from the profession. The successful minority candidate from truly disadvantaged backgrounds is a rare case. For such an example of beating the odds deserves our respect and admiration. The truth is it doesn't happen all that much. The gap between societies haves and have nots is so extreme at its poles that many of these would be successful candidates get weeded out by the harsh realities of life itself not by the academic game.

But placing Black Barbie from San Bernadino with the 3.2/28 into the milieu of patient care as a physician is useful nonetheless. If you've ever been in a racially charged negative situation on the front lines of patient care when there is racial mistrust at work you would know what I mean.

Good luck.

 

[Nasrudin]

That sucks cause I am Asian.

Why does it suck. While Asians are certainly a part of a minority community at large in the U.S., and your various communities have suffered tremendously from racial discrimination there is a simple fact of your cultural milieu that is undeniable--for whatever your numbers population-wise Asians vault huge numbers of students into graduate and medical sciences--that's the issue at work here. Not your cultural history but the relative numbers of your arbitrarily designated racial category in a particular field that must maintain diversity to be effective.

In other fields it wouldn't matter if the entire crew was Indian or Chinese or what have you. You guys collectively kick @ss in academics and in medicine there are limits to the racial composition of the classes so its going to be even tougher.

With Asians I think it sucks because the arbitrary designations rules out exceedingly underrepresented groups in medicine--the pacific islanders, filipinos, etc.

Imperfect human tools at work here. What can you do?

 

[drizzt3117]

First of all, CA students have plenty of success at public and private schools in other states. Second of all, if you're a competitive candidate, plenty of people get into the UCs. There are something like 700-800 seats reserved for CA residents which is something like 20% of applicants. That's not a lot but it's hardly impossible to get in. Finally, do some research with the MSAR to determine whether your stats match up with schools and select a list accordingly. Most people from CA apply broadly but it's not as big a disadvantage as people are making it out to be.

Yes the UC postbac programs are for underrepresented minority students and those from disadvantaged backgrounds, but there are other postbac programs in CA including quite a few at the Cal States that are essentially open enrollment.

 

[CycleCA]

First of all, CA students have plenty of success at public and private schools in other states. Second of all, if you're a competitive candidate, plenty of people get into the UCs. There are something like 700-800 seats reserved for CA residents which is something like 20% of applicants. That's not a lot but it's hardly impossible to get in. Finally, do some research with the MSAR to determine whether your stats match up with schools and select a list accordingly. Most people from CA apply broadly but it's not as big a disadvantage as people are making it out to be.

Yes the UC postbac programs are for underrepresented minority students and those from disadvantaged backgrounds, but there are other postbac programs in CA including quite a few at the Cal States that are essentially open enrollment.

Here's a quote I've been saving for an occasion just like this...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocwaveoc
California med schools seem to have stats just below Ivy league schools (if not the same for some UC schools). Loma Linda has a bit of a lower stat than the UC schools. But, Loma Linda heavily favors the Seventh day adventist applicants. I think USC rivals the UC schools in difficulty of getting in. From what I've heard, UCSF is one of the toughest to get into in California. As an OOS applicant, you likely have to have even better stat than the ones listed in US News book and have a real good reason for wanting to goto that UC school.
These are just opinions formed from reading some books and opinions of others. Someone can correct me if I'm not correct.

Thanks for clarifying the issue of UC admissions. I keep getting asked about this on other sections of studentdoctor, so now I don't have to type up this lengthy response. I think I might make it a sticky."

Well, CA schools might not be IMPOSSIBLE to get into, but hey, what do I know? BTW, I'm going to a conference this weekend where I might be able to gleen some info about competition in these schools. Check out the roster:

"The 2007 AMSA ARC Pre-Med Conference, scheduled to take place October 6-7, 2007, will be too good to miss. At this time, the guest list includes Deans of Admission from Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, Dartmouth, NYU, Cornell, Cleveland Clinic, University of Pennsylvania, University of Chicago, Tufts, UCSF, Northwestern University, Western University, Uniformed Services, University of Utah, Jefferson Medical College, UC Davis, UCLA, USC, UC Irvine, UCSD, Washington University, and Touro medical schools. These highly knowledgeable individuals will give you first-hand tips on how to go about planning your pre-med activities and get into the school of your choice."

 

[drizzt3117]

I think the average gpa/mcat for uci and ucd are about 3.7/32 which is consistent with their mid-tier rankings. The other ucs, usc, and stanford also have stats consistent w/ their ranking/reputation. Is it hard to get into a uc? Sure, but it is hard to get into any high ranking school. Why should ca ones be any different?

 

[hle007]

What? 3.7/33 for UCI?

What makes CA schools so competitive to get into?

 

[drizzt3117]

What? 3.7/33 for UCI?

What makes CA schools so competitive to get into?

Lots of applicants, high rankings, low tuition.

 

[Meatwad]

Why does it suck. While Asians are certainly a part of a minority community at large in the U.S., and your various communities have suffered tremendously from racial discrimination there is a simple fact of your cultural milieu that is undeniable--for whatever your numbers population-wise Asians vault huge numbers of students into graduate and medical sciences--that's the issue at work here. Not your cultural history but the relative numbers of your arbitrarily designated racial category in a particular field that must maintain diversity to be effective.

In other fields it wouldn't matter if the entire crew was Indian or Chinese or what have you. You guys collectively kick @ss in academics and in medicine there are limits to the racial composition of the classes so its going to be even tougher.

With Asians I think it sucks because the arbitrary designations rules out exceedingly underrepresented groups in medicine--the pacific islanders, filipinos, etc.

Imperfect human tools at work here. What can you do?

Since when are Filipinos under-represented in medicine? I know tons of doctors that are Filipino, personally, and see plenty of them working in the hospitals I've been to. Maybe it's a coastal phenomenon (largest Filipino communities in Queens, Jersey, Cali, etc.)?

 

[Nasrudin]

If you're filipino then trust me I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I've worked in healthcare in calli for over 4 years and have eaten more than a whiteboy's share of pansit and adobo--hell I've eaten some balut--while it's true if there were tagalog subtitles in my hospital I would speak it by now, it doesn't mean that their are a representative filipino physician population.

Anyways that was hardly my point....so take it as you like it.

 

[CycleCA]

If you're filipino then trust me I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I've worked in healthcare in calli for over 4 years and have eaten more than a whiteboy's share of pansit and adobo--hell I've eaten some balut--while it's true if there were tagalog subtitles in my hospital I would speak it by now, it doesn't mean that their are a representative filipino physician population.

Anyways that was hardly my point....so take it as you like it.

Well, as a nursing student and nursing assistant, I see so many filipino nurses it's not even funny. In fact, at some hospitals in my area the departments are 95-100% filipino. The thing is that the US has been drafting filipino nurses from the phillipines, and many filipinos in the US practice nursing. They are overrepresented demographically in the med system, compared proportionally to other "minority" groups. For instance, in my nursing class there are about 15 filipino students, 15 asian students, one black person, and two hispanics out of a class of 65 or so. Our city demographics are 48.29% White, 15.47% African American, 1.30% Native American, 16.62% Asian, 0.95% Pacific Islander, 10.96% from other races, and 6.41% from two or more races. 21.61% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race. But, you've also got to think about economic status, where 8% whites, 11% asians, 23% of blacks, and 24% of hispanics are living in poverty. I'm pretty sure that with the overturn of affirmative action, med schools/universities have started basing their admissions on a combo of minority and economic status, which is why to be considered a URM in CA you have to be black or hispanic. In other words, tough $heet if you're white or asian.

 

[Meatwad]

If you're filipino then trust me I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I've worked in healthcare in calli for over 4 years and have eaten more than a whiteboy's share of pansit and adobo--hell I've eaten some balut--while it's true if there were tagalog subtitles in my hospital I would speak it by now, it doesn't mean that their are a representative filipino physician population.

Anyways that was hardly my point....so take it as you like it.

Nah, I'm not Filipino, but my ex is.

I've actually never gotten the courage up to try balut, props to you... but I love me some adobo and dinuguan (which is blood stew, essentially).

 

[Nasrudin]

Right on for chocolate meat (blood stew)... and I hear you data doesn't lie.

Racial and cultural dynamics seam to peak their intensity in health care for whatever reason. Add that to the pressurized atmosphere of the premed game and its bound to get messy.

I just hope I can get in. But I also want to guard my dignity and responsibility as a member of the larger human family along the way.

I'll be honest, I get a little irked when I hear a URM candidate who doesn't sweat the performance outcomes and then tries to extrapolate their experience with the process to mine based on their results. Low gpa comeuppance is gritty affair without the clueless patronization.

But we must maintain the larger dimension of our hearts because at the end of the day medical student or no that's what we're leaving this place with.

Peace yall.