Dismissed and now matched. Another dilemma however

[Hydrocephalus3]

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I graduated in 06 with a BA and got a 34 MCAT and was accepted to an out of state medical school directly after graduating from college. I had only done general bio, chem, physics and organic chemistry as my science courses. Unfortunately I failed my first year and was asked to repeat first year. I again had failed after repeating and was asked to withdraw from school because of academics.

Rather than quitting on med, and not wanting to do DO, I decided to go to a non big 4 Carib school. I aced my classes there and did well in my step 1 getting a 227 and getting a 242 on step 2. I feel very fortunate for having matched into neurology and will be beginning this July

The program I matched to is an ACGME accredited program and has never been put on probation or anything. The program is in the south. I want to move back to Califirnia (hopefully after a neurointerventional rads fellowship) as that's my state residency and where my family lives. The med school I graduated from is not on the Cali approved med school list. I know it means I can't do my residency and fellowship there, but if a person graduates from an ACGME accredited program in the US can they apply for a Cali medical license even if they went to a non approved Cali med school? If not, is there any way around this? Would withdrawing from a us med school diminish my chances further of being approved for a Cali license? Thanks

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

Unfortunately, as I understand it you are not able to practice in California regardless of your residency status. The only chance you would have is if your medical school is added AND they grandfather it as well (done for SABA I think).

Even after completion of a ACGME accredited residency program in the United States? Why does which medical school one attends matter at that point?

 

[K31]

I want to move back to Califirnia (hopefully after a neurointerventional rads fellowship) as that's my state residency and where my family lives. The med school I graduated from is not on the Cali approved med school list. I know it means I can't do my residency and fellowship there, but if a person graduates from an ACGME accredited program in the US can they apply for a Cali medical license even if they went to a non approved Cali med school? If not, is there any way around this?

Is your school just not approved by California, or is it actually on the disapproved list? If the former, you have some hope if your school should choose to apply for recognition. If the latter, you're pretty much ****ed.

Would withdrawing from a us med school diminish my chances further of being approved for a Cali license? Thanks

Well, it's certainly not going to help your case.

Even after completion of a ACGME accredited residency program in the United States? Why does which medical school one attends matter at that point?

Because the California medical board says so.

 

[peppy]

Your best option for practicing in California might be to plan to work for a VA hospital there. I believe that if you work for the VA you just need a license from any state, not necessarily the one for the state the VA is located.

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

Your best option for practicing in California might be to plan to work for a VA hospital there. I believe that if you work for the VA you just need a license from any state, not necessarily the one for the state the VA is located.

That's a very helpful suggestion. I also am reading that a new law just passed recently in which graduates of non recognized med schools can get a Cali license if they passed all the steps, have completed training in an acgme program, and have practiced for 10 years.

Using this idea, after residency or fellowship I can apply for a va job in Cali as a neurologist and work 10 years in that system and then apply for a Cali license.

what are the salary figures like for a neurologist working in a va hospital? The average neurologist I'm hearing of gets about 220k

 

[Buzz Me]

Are you interested in Neurology or Neurointerventional Radiology?

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

Are you interested in Neurology or Neurointerventional Radiology?

Neurointerventional radiology, but from my research it appears the fellowship is very difficult to get for neuro residents. My own program I matched to has had yet no one been able to match into interventional neuro radiology. That's why I want to know average salaries of neurologists working in va hospital without any fellowship qualifications

 

[joker2400]

Neurointerventional radiology, but from my research it appears the fellowship is very difficult to get for neuro residents. My own program I matched to has had yet no one been able to match into interventional neuro radiology. That's why I want to know average salaries of neurologists working in va hospital without any fellowship qualifications

Look at USAjobs where the VA postings are. They give a general salary range.

 

[Buzz Me]

Neurointerventional radiology, but from my research it appears the fellowship is very difficult to get for neuro residents. My own program I matched to has had yet no one been able to match into interventional neuro radiology. That's why I want to know average salaries of neurologists working in va hospital without any fellowship qualifications

Yeah, I would imagine radiologists are not eager to give up this fellowship to those outside their field.

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

The salaries are about 50k less which is not a bad deal considering all the benefits as well

Yes most neurointerventional fellowships are going to rads applicants, but neuro residents in recent years are being heavily considered. One that comes to mind is Rush, where neurology residents are actually preferred over rads residents for interventional neuro. So there is some hope

 

[vistaril]

Even after completion of a ACGME accredited residency program in the United States? Why does which medical school one attends matter at that point?

ummm....how many residency programs aren't 'ACGME accredited'? (I dont know for sure but I was assuming they all were) You act as if this is some sort of meaningful distinction for your program.

California does not allow carrib grads from places like st eustachius/st lukes/st mathews/etc from getting licensed in their state. That is a *good* thing imo, and I would hope other states would follow suit.

 

[bobow98]

In regards to the salary of VA neurologists, my mentor who is a chief of Neuro at one of our fine VAs told me that they just hired a person as an assistant professor (fresh out of residency) at the highest price ever for a neurologist Jr Attending - 162k a year.

That might give you a good idea. Also remember there is 1% pension added for each year you work in the system. Back in the day you got 2% a year...Imagine if it were still that way. VA would be the hottest gig you could ever get.

However, because our govt relegates money toward bombs instead of healthcare, salaries have been frozen at the VA for several years I think, without even the annual inflation raises, at least according to some people.

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

ummm....how many residency programs aren't 'ACGME accredited'? (I dont know for sure but I was assuming they all were) You act as if this is some sort of meaningful distinction for your program.

California does not allow carrib grads from places like st eustachius/st lukes/st mathews/etc from getting licensed in their state. That is a *good* thing imo, and I would hope other states would follow suit.

Actually a law just passed this feb, which I just found, that people from nonaccreduted med schools who do an ACGME residency, pass all the steps, and have been working as a physician fir 10 years consectively are now eligible to get a Cali license as well

Why does it matter which med school one attends? It shouldn't and that's why the steps are there. The basic idea of the steps are to pass it means you have the minimal knowledge to treat patients safely.

I saw first hand the curriculum at a us school and a nonbig 4 Carib school and there was a major difference. The us school taught the courses written by their own professors who were all Phd's and there was tiny irrelevant basic science info not found in Rapid review books. When I went to the Carib, we hardly had any power points and our classes textbooks were the Kaplan lecture notes taught by mbbs doctors from india and nigeria.Our exams in the Carib came from Kaplan qbank and uworld and this helped out a lot when we got a semester to study for USMLE. About 40% of us passed on first attempt and that's quite low. But that's because those who failed never really studied and just memorized answers to Kaplan qbank and uworld without understanding the concepts which would pass the in class exams but not the USMLE. But rumor is that among those who did pass, the average was a 235. Despite being from a non recognized Cali school, I have no doubt that all these students will be excellent doctors in a few years

 

[vistaril]

Actually a law just passed this feb, which I just found, that people from nonaccreduted med schools who do an ACGME residency, pass all the steps, and have been working as a physician fir 10 years consectively are now eligible to get a Cali license as well

Why does it matter which med school one attends? It shouldn't and that's why the steps are there. The basic idea of the steps are to pass it means you have the minimal knowledge to treat patients safely.

I saw first hand the curriculum at a us school and a nonbig 4 Carib school and there was a major difference. The us school taught the courses written by their own professors who were all Phd's and there was tiny irrelevant basic science info not found in Rapid review books. When I went to the Carib, we hardly had any power points and our classes textbooks were the Kaplan lecture notes taught by mbbs doctors from india and nigeria.Our exams in the Carib came from Kaplan qbank and uworld and this helped out a lot when we got a semester to study for USMLE. About 40% of us passed on first attempt and that's quite low. But that's because those who failed never really studied and just memorized answers to Kaplan qbank and uworld without understanding the concepts which would pass the in class exams but not the USMLE. But rumor is that among those who did pass, the average was a 235. Despite being from a non recognized Cali school, I have no doubt that all these students will be excellent doctors in a few years

you got a cite for this new law allowing people from st lukes and such to practice medicine in cali? If true, that's unfortunate.

But to answer your main point- you put too much emphasis on the steps. The steps measure bare bones competency in only ONE area in reality, and that is that which can be incorporated into multiple question standardized tests. The vignette part of step3 is still woefully inadequate to measure this. Being a doctor and medical training is about much more than the ability to answer multiple choice questions. It's about day to day education on the wards and in clinics. And from what i've seen, many foreign med schools(and sadly even some DO schools here in the states) are just not up to par here in terms of the clinical education.

 

[fishsnack]

You knew your school wasn't recognized by California, yet you still attended. Why didn't you go to one of the schools that is approved?

As for interventional neuro: this field is supersaturated, with fellowships being urged to close. While there are neurologists in the field, it remains dominated by neurosurgery and radiology. Better start enjoying medical management of stroke and MS

 

[Taurus]

As for interventional neuro: this field is supersaturated, with fellowships being urged to close. While there are neurologists in the field, it remains dominated by neurosurgery and radiology. Better start enjoying medical management of stroke and MS

The problem isn't that the field is supersaturated. The problem is that there were three studies that showed that endovascular tx offered no significant benefit during stroke. Ouch! Until solid scientific data come out supporting it, I would stay away from neuro interventional.

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