Dismissed from big 4, what to do next + residency

[andrew1234]

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[jackets5]

You likely have zero to no chance obtaining residency after failing out of a Caribbean school. I don't know what makes you think you will excel in a SMP since you failed many classes in a Caribbean school.

I'm pretty sure if you don't mention the Caribbean thing to a DO school and they find out you can be dismissed from that school. Also, what leads you to think you would be able to succeed in a DO school?

Hi y'all,
So I was academically dismissed from one of the big 4 in the Caribbean (failed max classes). I had a few questions as to what I should do next.

I was considering applying to another caribbean school and transferring my credits--however I was wondering how this would affect my residency chances having the academic dismissal on my record.

Another option I was considering was retaking the MCAT and do an SMP starting this fall, and applying for DO for the fall of 2014--but not sure if I should tell or not tell DO schools about my history in the caribbean. Any thoughts on this? If I do tell them, will they automatically reject me?

A third option I was thinking about was applying for PA school or Podiatry school as last option as I am not getting any younger and don't want to lose too much more time if none of the above options are worth pursuing. Any thoughts on this as well?

 

[andrew1234]

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[jackets5]

Your logic dosent make sense. Your going to excel because you have already seen the material? The more likely scenario is that you will barely scrape by and end up failing at least another class or two. Also, you have to pass step 1 and 2 on the first try failing either of those will destroy the slim to no chance of residency.

I'm not picking on you. I went to a Caribbean school and have heard your story and how, now you will excel and do well blah, blah. I have yet to see or hear a happy ending from any of those situations.

Things are getting very difficult to match as a IMG as it is even for applicants with no Red flags. You have a huge red flag and if your already struggling this much with the basic sciences you not likely to do well on step 1 and 2.

So you are saying everyone that fails out of a caribbean school and goes to another one and succeeds there and does well on their step 1 and 2 won't get residency?

I can excel in an SMP because I have taken all the courses that I would be taking in a 1 year SMP, so obviously seeing it a second time will be easier for me.

Ok thank you that's what I thought. I would be able to succeed for the same reasoning I wrote above.

Thanks.

Andy

 

[andrew1234]

Your logic dosent make sense. Your going to excel because you have already seen the material? The more likely scenario is that you will barely scrape by and end up failing at least another class or two. Also, you have to pass step 1 and 2 on the first try failing either of those will destroy the slim to no chance of residency.

I'm not picking on you. I went to a Caribbean school and have heard your story and how, now you will excel and do well blah, blah. I have yet to see or hear a happy ending from any of those situations.

Things are getting very difficult to match as a IMG as it is even for applicants with no Red flags. You have a huge red flag and if your already struggling this much with the basic sciences you not likely to do well on step 1 and 2.

Then what advice do you have that I do instead? Any input on the other questions in my original post?

 

[Top Gun]

I would suggest you look into other careers. You could not hack it in a big four school. Even if you transferred into another Caribbean school, such as SMU or AUA, and somehow passed all your classes, the residency match would be even tougher. The big four schools are the ones whose grads are most successful in obtaining residency placement. And transferring to another Caribbean school after failing out of one would be seen as a big red flag. Its not even a lateral move. If anything, its a downgrade. Also, I'm not sure what makes you think you could succeed in an SMP and subsequently DO school. Yes, you saw the material before, but for whatever reason, you could not master it. What makes you think you'll succeed the second time? Do you honestly think you have the aptitude to master the basic and clinical sciences?

 

[Skip Intro]

Then what advice do you have that I do instead? Any input on the other questions in my original post?

Yours is a cautionary tale to others... and a recurring theme that I am constantly reiterating here on this forum. So, thank you for sharing your story.

More advice? I would seriously look long and hard at what you hoped to accomplish in going to the Carib in the first place, and I would also seriously consider what you hope to accomplish at (potentially) continuing this course.

How much debt have you amassed? Do you have a realistic expectation that you can recoup this debt later - especially potentially adding more to your current debt - in continuing to pursue a medical degree? Remember, you can not default on this debt; you cannot not "Chapter 7" your way out of it. You will have to repay these loans, unless of course you are one of the fortunate and lucky ones who is independently wealthy and didn't have loans in the first place affording the pursuit of this dream within your own means.

I think Physician Assistant school may be an option for you. However, the course material is similar and you may struggle passing these courses as well. I would do some serious soul-searching and figure out if you simply cannot master this material in a way that will allow you to pass these tests. It's not going to get any easier... there are the Steps... there are board-certification exams... there is eventually re-certification.... All of these things are required in order for you to get privileges wherever you practice and to maintain credentialing. This is true no matter which option, physician or mid-level, you choose.

And, remember, no matter how it turns out, some licensure boards - if not most - require you to list all medical schools you attended. Failure to do so is grounds not to give you a license or, likewise, to revoke your license if they later find out that you lied in your application.

Good luck. Sorry that this happened to you. Have some solace in knowing that you are not alone, and your story serves to forewarn others going this route. The "big four" don't hand out medical degrees simply because you show-up and pay tuition.

-Skip

 

[Slaol]

I would recommend that you apply to PA or nursing school in the United States before going further into debt. You can always try again for the US after a few years as a PA or nurse. I would strongly suggest giving up the Caribbean route. (I am a Caribbean grad)

 

[edgerock24]

You could consider pharmacy school as well, if that interests you.

 

[Hydrocephalus3]

I say to look at UMHS. I was dismissed from a US Med school, and rather than quitting on the idea of medicine or looking at different career options, I went straight to UMHS. I excelled, did fairly well on my steps and matched in Neurology this year. But going to UMHS will mean that you will have to be self-disciplined from day 1 and do all the Kaplan Lecture Notes, FA, Uworld, and Kaplan Medessentials. It may sound easier than done, especially when surrounded in an environment where studying can be difficult with many distractions. But I was focused, and am eternally grateful for having matched into neuro

 

[loltopsy]

I say to look at UMHS. I was dismissed from a US Med school, and rather than quitting on the idea of medicine or looking at different career options, I went straight to UMHS. I excelled, did fairly well on my steps and matched in Neurology this year. But going to UMHS will mean that you will have to be self-disciplined from day 1 and do all the Kaplan Lecture Notes, FA, Uworld, and Kaplan Medessentials. It may sound easier than done, especially when surrounded in an environment where studying can be difficult with many distractions. But I was focused, and am eternally grateful for having matched into neuro

By the time he graduates, matching will be about 100 times harder due to the increase in US seniors applying for the match. His likelihood of matching goes from well below average for a carib school to absolutely impossible.


You have choices though. Get a masters or a phd, or go the PA route. Do something else and make some money. In 10 years, with way more experience, retake the MCAT and get into a US MD or DO school. It is possible if you put enough time between you and failing the carib school. A few years isn't enough for adcoms to overlook it.

If you go to the carib now, you risk not matching even with stellar grades, and then you have to deal with the insane debt of 5-6 years of carib med school + interest.

 

[stethan]

Hi y'all,
So I was academically dismissed from one of the big 4 in the Caribbean (failed max classes). I had a few questions as to what I should do next.

I was considering applying to another caribbean school and transferring my credits--however I was wondering how this would affect my residency chances having the academic dismissal on my record.

I don't even think you would want to go to a Caribbean school that accepts academically dismissed students. I'm not sure of any that do, although I'm sure they're out there.

 

[jackets5]

I don't even think you would want to go to a Caribbean school that accepts academically dismissed students. I'm not sure of any that do, although I'm sure they're out there.

Plenty of them do. There are like 30 Caribbean med schools. However, i strongly and think im joined by the others who posted that going to another Caribbean school is a very, very bad idea and likely only to end up in more debt with no results in the end. Its a crappy situation and a a kick in the balls to realize that your not going to be a physician but its better now than a 100k+ later.

 

[ActionFigure]

if you think you can do the DO route, then go for it.

 

[MD860]

Average Stats at US DO schools continues to rise every year Average MCAT and GPA for 2013 class was 3.4 and 28 at most schools. If you failed out of a carribean school you have no chance at a DO school. Most DO schools will dismiss you after failing 1 or 2 classes and expect you to take COMLEX as well as USMLE.
You need to realize your weaknesses , not everyone has to be a physician there are lots of other things you can do in life. My advice to you is to abandon medical school and find an alternative route.

 

[Top Gun]

if you think you can do the DO route, then go for it.

Its not as simple as that. The OP has already shown that s/he could not cut it in a big 4 Caribbean med school. First, it is highly improbable that s/he will even get into a DO program. DO schools are not eager to take students who washed out of other med schools. Second, the ability of the OP to handle the material is questionable, given that s/he has already failed out of med school once. Why would the OP be more likely to succeed the second time? Unless, of course, the OP just partied and went to the beach the whole time s/he was in the Caribbean. If that's the case, the OP will have to make some major changes in his/her study habits. And I think in this scenario, the adcom would have serious questions with regard to the student's commitment to medicine.

To the OP: Yes, medicine is a great career, but its not the only great career out there. There are numerous rewarding professions to choose from, both in and out of health care. You could be an NP or PA. Or if you don't want to do anything health-care related anymore, there are many other professions to choose from, like law, engineering, or business administration. Not everyone is cut out to be a physician.

 

[Medstart108]

Hi y'all,
So I was academically dismissed from one of the big 4 in the Caribbean (failed max classes). I had a few questions as to what I should do next.

I was considering applying to another caribbean school and transferring my credits--however I was wondering how this would affect my residency chances having the academic dismissal on my record.

Another option I was considering was retaking the MCAT and do an SMP starting this fall, and applying for DO for the fall of 2014--but not sure if I should tell or not tell DO schools about my history in the caribbean. Any thoughts on this? If I do tell them, will they automatically reject me?

A third option I was thinking about was applying for PA school or Podiatry school as last option as I am not getting any younger and don't want to lose too much more time if none of the above options are worth pursuing. Any thoughts on this as well?

I would go to PA or Podiatry school.

Dropping out of the Caribbean is the red line. You have proven yourself to be not a good match for medicine.


You had a chance to do well in college, you bombed that. You were older and wiser (hopefully) and given the chance at the Caribbean, you bombed that.
Podiatry is just like medicine but on the foot, I would think its a good fit.

 

[Dionysus007]

Its not as simple as that. The OP has already shown that s/he could not cut it in a big 4 Caribbean med school. First, it is highly improbable that s/he will even get into a DO program. DO schools are not eager to take students who washed out of other med schools.

Not that it means much (and I know n = 1), but I had a friend who failed out of a big 4 school, retook the MCAT (got 30+) and got into a DO school a year later.

 

[Unzbuzzled]

I know a friend of a friend's brother who failed out of college and then got accepted to Johns Hopkins without even taking the MCAT or interviewing. He personally knew the night janitor and was able to get a glowing letter of recommendation from him. Sometimes it's who you know...

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Seriously though, what makes you think you'll do better in a DO school (or even harder, an SMP, where you need to get As) if you failed out of a Caribbean school? Even if you can get into another school, which is a long-shot, you're likely to fail there as well unless you do a serious re-evaluation of your priorities. If there's one thing I learned about medical school, it's that getting in is the easy part. If you can't handle the material, for whatever reason, maybe you should look into other career options.

 

[rc4ch]

Hi y'all,
So I was academically dismissed from one of the big 4 in the Caribbean (failed max classes). I had a few questions as to what I should do next.

I was considering applying to another caribbean school and transferring my credits--however I was wondering how this would affect my residency chances having the academic dismissal on my record.

Another option I was considering was retaking the MCAT and do an SMP starting this fall, and applying for DO for the fall of 2014--but not sure if I should tell or not tell DO schools about my history in the caribbean. Any thoughts on this? If I do tell them, will they automatically reject me?

A third option I was thinking about was applying for PA school or Podiatry school as last option as I am not getting any younger and don't want to lose too much more time if none of the above options are worth pursuing. Any thoughts on this as well?

Apply to PA school. You really think DO schools accepts failed students who got rejected at a Caribbean school?

 

[Slaol]

Seriously though, what makes you think you'll do better in a DO school (or even harder, an SMP, where you need to get As) if you failed out of a Caribbean school? Even if you can get into another school, which is a long-shot, you're likely to fail there as well unless you do a serious re-evaluation of your priorities. If there's one thing I learned about medical school, it's that getting in is the easy part. If you can't handle the material, for whatever reason, maybe you should look into other career options.

Caribbean schools are much more ruthless than US schools, as failing out a certain % of students is part of their business model. I would argue that it's possible for someone to fail out of a Caribbean school & succeed in the US - HOWEVER, most DO schools would not want a Caribbean flunkee.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[Unzbuzzled]

Caribbean schools are much more ruthless than US schools, as failing out a certain % of students is part of their business model. I would argue that it's possible for someone to fail out of a Caribbean school & succeed in the US - HOWEVER, most DO schools would not want a Caribbean flunkee.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

If this is true, which I'm betting it is, it's just another reason to avoid the Caribbean at all costs. Sheesh!

 

[Skip Intro]

If this is true, which I'm betting it is, it's just another reason to avoid the Caribbean at all costs. Sheesh!

It is partially true, and is the primary reason to know what you're getting into before you go.

The Caribbean schools, at least the reputable ones, don't "fail you out". Students fail out, yes, but probably because they shouldn't have been there in the first place.

And the ones that fail out are equally likely to again fail out at any credible, non-diploma mill, be it on the U.S. mainland or elsewhere.

-Skip

 

[Top Gun]

Some of the more reputable Caribbean schools, like SGU, actually do try to help students succeed. SGU has the Department of Educational Services, which offers tutoring, assistance with study techniques and time management, etc... Plus, SGU allows struggling students to decel, meaning they have a reduced course load per semester. I've seen students who have decelled at least twice. They just graduate at a later date. I believe AUC offers some academic assistance to their students, as well. Not sure about Ross.

 

[Skip Intro]

Some of the more reputable Caribbean schools, like SGU, actually do try to help students succeed. SGU has the Department of Educational Services, which offers tutoring, assistance with study techniques and time management, etc... Plus, SGU allows struggling students to decel, meaning they have a reduced course load per semester. I've seen students who have decelled at least twice. They just graduate at a later date. I believe AUC offers some academic assistance to their students, as well. Not sure about Ross.

When I was there, Ross had tutoring programs and also allowed students to repeat semesters if they failed. They also had an on-campus review program for the comprehensive shelf, which you were required to pass before you could sit for Step 1.

Not sure if this is still the case, but certainly don't know why this would change. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't always make him drink.

-Skip

 

[IlDestriero]

PA school or accelerated nursing program.

 

[Top Gun]

When I was there, Ross had tutoring programs and also allowed students to repeat semesters if they failed. They also had an on-campus review program for the comprehensive shelf, which you were required to pass before you could sit for Step 1.

Not sure if this is still the case, but certainly don't know why this would change. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't always make him drink.

-Skip

No offense intended. I just wasn't sure what kind of academic assistance Ross offered.

 

[Skip Intro]

No offense intended. I just wasn't sure what kind of academic assistance Ross offered.

None taken.

Larger point is that it is time for some serious soul searching and thoughtful deliberation before you make the investment in blood, sweat, tears, and personal treasure and embark on your own Caribbean "expedition".

-Skip

 

[NJDevilsFan]

What makes you think you can get competitive or even passing Step scores with obvious learning deficiencies? If you can't handle basic science then you can't handle step. Even if you had a miraculous average score, 2016 and beyond is gonna be tough for IMGs who never ever came lose to failing.