Dismissed from caribbean now what?

[miqktb]

I was dismissed from caribbean school and really thinking about my options now and looking for feedback/exp from people who have some insight or exp of their own.

Options I am considering right now are:
Applying to lower tier (AUA) - I have concerns because being dismissed is on my record and it getting residencies might be a problem. It all depends on the USMLE.
Applying to DO/ SMP/ Post-bacc - I will have to retake the new MCAT and re-apply go through a lengthy time consuming process with no guarantees at the end.
Switch career - This option i cringe to think about..... Being a doctor is all I wanted to be ever since i could remember. I will consider it if all else fails.

I am taking the AUA route seriously but I still have poking doubts and would love some insight.

Thanks!

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[NotAProgDirector]

Do you want the honest truth, or what you want to hear?

The Honest Truth:
Your career as a physician is over. More time and money spent on this path will not be of benefit for you. The Carib is a second chance -- a place where some people who didn't do well in undergrad but could perform better can go to prove it. You didn't, and another medical school is not the answer. No matter what you tell yourself, you're not likely to do well on the USMLE exam given your history. Reapplying via post-bacc's etc is also not going to work -- you have matriculated into a medical school, most US schools will not consider you any more. There are other options in the medical field. A PA or NP is a possibility. You should seriously consider another path. All else has failed.

What you want to hear:
Sure you can go to a lower tier medical school and spend more money. There's always a chance you'll score great on the USMLE. Perhaps residency programs will overlook your checkered past. Don't give up on your dream. I'm sure it's worked out for so

 

[Jloyay]

I was dismissed from caribbean school and really thinking about my options now and looking for feedback/exp from people who have some insight or exp of their own.

Options I am considering right now are:
Applying to lower tier (AUA) - I have concerns because being dismissed is on my record and it getting residencies might be a problem. It all depends on the USMLE.
Applying to DO/ SMP/ Post-bacc - I will have to retake the new MCAT and re-apply go through a lengthy time consuming process with no guarantees at the end.
Switch career - This option i cringe to think about..... Being a doctor is all I wanted to be ever since i could remember. I will consider it if all else fails.

I am taking the AUA route seriously but I still have poking doubts and would love some insight.

Thanks!

Which medical school and what are the reasons for the dismissal?

I recommend you look outside of the Americas and apply to Europe or Australia. Ireland has a history of placing residents in pretty competitive residencies in the US provided you do well on the steps and do US CEs. Not sure though if the dismissal from medical school will haunt you come time to apply for residency.

 

[W19]

@miqktb Becoming a US physician is practically over for you... However, you still can get a career in healthcare. I would suggest that you enroll in a 1-year accelerated BSN (RN) program and then you can become a NP. Therefore, you can practically work like a physician in 4 years or less.

 

[mk04447]

I imagine this happens to a lot of people who travel there? What did your classmates or upperclassmen you've known do? I think you'll want to find the right way, tested by experience, before doing anything. Being rejected by programs that automatically disqualify for this will cause unnecessary expense and may be demotivating. You will absolutely have trouble convincing a program that you can succeed when the coursework is so similar. But, again this depends on what the dismissal was for.

 

[Skip Intro]

It's begins as an uphill battle. When you start to stagger, and maybe begin to put rocks in your backpack, it just gets harder to make that climb. Sometimes you have to turn around and head back down hill. There's no shame there at this point. Some may consider that wise. There is, however, more than shame in eventually (not) finishing and still having nothing to show for it... massive debt, wasted years, time you could've spent taking your career in a different direction, additional blows to your self-esteem...

Time for some real soul-searching. Real soul-searching.

-Skip

 

[miqktb]

It's begins as an uphill battle. When you start to stagger, and maybe begin to put rocks in your backpack, it just gets harder to make that climb. Sometimes you have to turn around and head back down hill. There's no shame there at this point. Some may consider that wise. There is, however, more than shame in eventually (not) finishing and still having nothing to show for it... massive debt, wasted years, time you could've spent taking your career in a different direction, additional blows to your self-esteem...

Time for some real soul-searching. Real soul-searching.

-Skip

I was thinking about going the PA route or trying to do SMP with linkage. It has been a hard and tough road but the reasons for my dismissal weren't academic (IMO) hence the reason I think I can make it if I don't get into same situations and make the same mistakes again... I actually started out well and my performance deteriorated after first sem (opposite to what happens with most people) because of some personal issues I was encountering. I was also passing my shelfs even till the end but my overall grade was a percent or so short in 2 courses. I am reflecting back on it now and realizing even though i was an average student at the school my performance wasn't really spectacular even at best and that has worried me the most. I do believe if it was course work alone I would have made it through the cric sufficiently.

 

[samac]

Ouch.
Let's be real here, you're not going to be a physician. I don't know of Us schools, MD or DO, that would take someone who failed out of a Carib school.
PA is an option, but it's pretty competitive. NP is an option

 

[mk04447]

Ouch.
Let's be real here, you're not going to be a physician. I don't know of Us schools, MD or DO, that would take someone who failed out of a Carib school.
PA is an option, but it's pretty competitive. NP is an option

One person hasn't chimed in sufficiently to make this claim, the OP. What was the dismissal for? Did the OP overreact or would any of us falter.

 

[Jeffrety]

Why stress yourself with healthcare at all? Think of this as a fresh start. Be a lab tech, go travel the world, join the military and pay off your loans.

 

[Goro]

OP would be DOA at my school.

 

[haidar]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Try a different career path.. Maybe nursing? or teaching?

 

[esotero]

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[W19]

I don't think chances are that bad at low tier DO assuming you can get a better MCAT score on your retake... I met someone with similar situation on the trail in 2014 and he got into WVSOM...

I think you will have a shot if you apply to the following schools: WVSOM, LMU-DCOM, ACOM, VCOM (x3), BCOM, LUCOM, PCOM-GA, LECOM (x3) etc...

I never understand why someone with 25+ score would forego DO where his/her chance to become a physician is 95%+ to go to some 3rd world country in the Caribbean where his chance to become a physician is somewhat 50%...

You can bring up a 2 ish GPA to a 3 ish GPA in one year with DO grade replacement.... Why would someone take such a big risk is beyond me... Maybe I am too risk averse!

 

[Goro]

DOA at my school, but I suspect that the newer DO programs might take a chance on you.


QUOTE="esotero, post: 16900442, member: 377680"]I was wondering what the chances would be for DO admission if I matriculated at a Caribbean school but voluntarily withdrew after one semester?

I went to Ross in the Caribbean and voluntarily withdrew after one semester (1 failing grade, rest of the grades passing), and after withdrawing I did a postbac with a 3.65 GPA and plan to take the MCAT for a second time in January (first mcat was a 27 in 2012).


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[the argus]

I was wondering what the chances would be for DO admission if I matriculated at a Caribbean school but voluntarily withdrew after one semester?

I went to Ross in the Caribbean and voluntarily withdrew after one semester (1 failing grade, rest of the grades passing), and after withdrawing I did a postbac with a 3.65 GPA and plan to take the MCAT for a second time in January (first mcat was a 27 in 2012).


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Saying you voluntarily withdrew after failing a block, and hence having to appeal to be allowed to return and repeat the semester, is disingenuous and sounds ridiculous. From the Ross student handbook,

"If the results of the SAP evaluation indicate that a student has not met either one of the qualitative or quantitative measures, the student will be notified in writing that he/she is not eligible for federal financial aid and is subject to dismissal from RUSM. A student receiving such notification may appeal the determination and request reinstatement on academic/financial aid probation and will be issued an academic plan based on RUSM’s guidelines"

I definitely wouldn't phrase it that way when applying to DO schools. Sack up, admit you weren't ready then, and convince them that you are now.

 

[esotero]

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[NWS]

I was dismissed from caribbean school and really thinking about my options now and looking for feedback/exp from people who have some insight or exp of their own.

Options I am considering right now are:
Applying to lower tier (AUA) - I have concerns because being dismissed is on my record and it getting residencies might be a problem. It all depends on the USMLE.
Applying to DO/ SMP/ Post-bacc - I will have to retake the new MCAT and re-apply go through a lengthy time consuming process with no guarantees at the end.
Switch career - This option i cringe to think about..... Being a doctor is all I wanted to be ever since i could remember. I will consider it if all else fails.

I am taking the AUA route seriously but I still have poking doubts and would love some insight.

Thanks!

It's the Caribbean, unless you took a USMLE, it has zero bearing on US schools. So these guys telling you that your career is over are full of it. I personally would ditch the Caribbean route, go back to the US, do the MCAT/post bac route and never mention you stepped foot on the Caribbean. US schools won't ever know or care.

 

[W19]

It's the Caribbean, unless you took a USMLE, it has zero bearing on US schools. So these guys telling you that your career is over are full of it. I personally would ditch the Caribbean route, go back to the US, do the MCAT/post bac route and never mention you stepped foot on the Caribbean. US schools won't ever know or care.

What if he had federal student loan? They will know... I would not advise someone to lie in his med school application...

 

[ThoracicGuy]

It's the Caribbean, unless you took a USMLE, it has zero bearing on US schools. So these guys telling you that your career is over are full of it. I personally would ditch the Caribbean route, go back to the US, do the MCAT/post bac route and never mention you stepped foot on the Caribbean. US schools won't ever know or care.

And if he lies on his application and gets in and the school ever finds out, they could kick him out or rescind his diploma at any time.

Your advice is foolish.

 

[Skip Intro]

... never mention you stepped foot on the Caribbean. US schools won't ever know or care.

There are errors of omission and errors of commission. I've been an audience member in enough peer review meetings to know that, for some reason, everyone tends to care more about the former compared to the latter.

Just thought I'd mention that.

-Skip

 

[NWS]

And if he lies on his application and gets in and the school ever finds out, they could kick him out or rescind his diploma at any time.

Your advice is foolish.

Yeah I'm sure they're going to make the effort to ask all the Caribbean schools if they heard of him. Get real. OP, don't listen to these clowns, nobody will ever know or care you went to a Caribbean school unless you took a USMLE.

 

[DocBlin]

Dear miqktb (OP); If you still desire to 'try' to obtain a medical degree in my opinion your only course might be post bacc first. Obtain high GPA there. Re take new MCATs need over 510 range. Than apply to low tier DO schools. Hard up hill climb but this might be the ONLY route available. Going to low tier Caribbean School will allow you to graduate but obtain a residency would be near impossible with your history. But the DO route after preforming in post bacc courses with new MCAT offers you the better opportunity of a DO match. Good Luck. Interesting thread...

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Yeah I'm sure they're going to make the effort to ask all the Caribbean schools if they heard of him. Get real. OP, don't listen to these clowns, nobody will ever know or care you went to a Caribbean school unless you took a USMLE.

If he took any financial aid from the government, that will show up. If they ask what he did since college, that could open it up. Yes, he could lie. If the school found out after acceptance, the could revoke his acceptance. If he manages to graduate and get to residency and the school found out, they could revoke his diploma and there would be nothing he could do about it. Would you be willing to risk your career on a lie?

 

[deleted480308]

The healthiest thing for you to hear is that you will never be a US physician and should move on to happiness through other avenues. I'm sorry...

 

[NWS]

If he took any financial aid from the government, that will show up. If they ask what he did since college, that could open it up. Yes, he could lie. If the school found out after acceptance, the could revoke his acceptance. If he manages to graduate and get to residency and the school found out, they could revoke his diploma and there would be nothing he could do about it. Would you be willing to risk your career on a lie?

IF he took federal loans then you may have a point that it could come up. However, if he never took fed loans (which most Caribbean schools don't have), then it really won't even matter to US medical schools because the majority of Carib schools are not LCME. If you outright tell them they may request transcripts otherwise they do not care. I know this after having several conversations with friends that are on admission committees at US med schools. If he did take federal loans, then his best bet is to attend another Caribbean school like AUA and continue on. It may or may not even come up during his residency interview where he can explain it if he chooses to. Furthermore, there are many residents I worked with that failed out of schools like Ross, continued at AUA and matched into internal medicine, family med etc. His career is far from over like many here are trying to paint.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

IF he took federal loans then you may have a point that it could come up. However, if he never took fed loans (which most Caribbean schools don't have), then it really won't even matter to US medical schools because the majority of Carib schools are not LCME. If you outright tell them they may request transcripts otherwise they do not care. I know this after having several conversations with friends that are on admission committees at US med schools. If he did take federal loans, then his best bet is to attend another Caribbean school like AUA and continue on. It may or may not even come up during his residency interview where he can explain it if he chooses to. Furthermore, there are many residents I worked with that failed out of schools like Ross, continued at AUA and matched into internal medicine, family med etc. His career is far from over like many here are trying to paint.

Medical school applications ask if you have ever matriculated at another medical school. If you answer that with a No after having gone to a Caribbean school then you are lying.

It doesn't matter about anything else, it is a lie. If you honestly think medical schools won't care that you went to a prior medical school, you're wrong. It wouldn't always be a killer to your application, but at many places it will be. Yes, you might be able to get by with your lie, but in the end, you are risking your whole career on a lie. One that could come back to bite you even years after graduation.

Your advice is unprofessional. Lying is not a trait I would like to see in my physicians...

 

[NWS]

Medical school applications ask if you have ever matriculated at another medical school. If you answer that with a No after having gone to a Caribbean school then you are lying.

It doesn't matter about anything else, it is a lie. If you honestly think medical schools won't care that you went to a prior medical school, you're wrong. It wouldn't always be a killer to your application, but at many places it will be. Yes, you might be able to get by with your lie, but in the end, you are risking your whole career on a lie. One that could come back to bite you even years after graduation.

Your advice is unprofessional. Lying is not a trait I would like to see in my physicians...

Chances of it coming up EVER in his career is as good as him winning the lottery. There's nothing unethical about it, the Caribbean is offshore and isn't LCME, he doesn't need to mention it if he chooses not to. If he matriculated in a US or Canadian allopathic school and lied about it, that would be another story. And please spare me the ethical diatribe about physicians, I've seen enough shady ones to know better.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Chances of it coming up EVER in his career is as good as him winning the lottery. There's nothing unethical about it, the Caribbean is offshore and isn't LCME, he doesn't need to mention it if he chooses not to. If he matriculated in a US or Canadian allopathic school and lied about it, that would be another story. And please spare me the ethical diatribe about physicians, I've seen enough shady ones to know better.

LCME accreditation has nothing to do with answering the question honestly. They don't ask if you have matriculated to a US/Canadian medical school. They ask if you have matriculated to ANY medical school. If he says no when the truth is yes and it does manage to come up, you have been caught in a lie. You are recommending that someone on here lie on their application. Per the AMCAS official guidelines:

Previous Matriculation
You have "matriculated" as a medical school student if you were officially enrolled and attended classes as a candidate for a medical school degree. Answer Yes to this question if you have ever matriculated into any medical degree program at a medical school regardless of country. Check with the medical school if you have any questions regarding your matriculation status. Failure to accurately answer this question will result in an investigation. If you answer Yes, you must use the space provided to explain your previous matriculation. You should include the name of the school to which you previously matriculated, the degree you sought, and why you are reapplying to medical school at this time. Your response may be up to 1,325 characters or approximately one-quarter of a page in length.

They don't mention LCME status. Let me highlight the relevant sentence again:

Answer Yes to this question if you have ever matriculated into any medical degree program at a medical school regardless of country.

Yes, you can lie. You MIGHT get away with it. What if during your background check they discover that you had a legal address in the Caribbean but that was never disclosed on your applicaton? Your offer would be rescinded. Think you'd ever get a third chance after that one? I don't think so.

Perhaps we can get some actual admins to weigh in on this since you seem to have all the answers and have talked to some admins that think prior medical school matriculation is something US schools just don't care about... What say you, @Goro, @gyngyn, @LizzyM, and @mcl?

 

[gyngyn]

LCME accreditation has nothing to do with answering the question honestly. They don't ask if you have matriculated to a US/Canadian medical school. They ask if you have matriculated to ANY medical school. If he says no when the truth is yes and it does manage to come up, you have been caught in a lie. You are recommending that someone on here lie on their application. Per the AMCAS official guidelines:



They don't mention LCME status. Let me highlight the relevant sentence again:



Yes, you can lie. You MIGHT get away with it. What if during your background check they discover that you had a legal address in the Caribbean but that was never disclosed on your applicaton? Your offer would be rescinded. Think you'd ever get a third chance after that one? I don't think so.

Perhaps we can get some actual admins to weigh in on this since you seem to have all the answers and have talked to some admins that think prior medical school matriculation is something US schools just don't care about... What say you, @Goro, @gyngyn, @LizzyM, and @mcl?

You have summarized it quite nicely.
If the failure to report were to be discovered during the application cycle, AMCAS would initiate an investigation. A later discovery would put the candidate at risk of professionalism probation or expulsion.

I am aware of at least one applicant who failed to list his status at an Italian Medical school last year and got no acceptances after it was revealed that he was not truthful on the primary.

 

[el_duderino]

I think that failing out of a foreign school and then blatantly lying about it to US schools is a great way to start a career in medicine. That's exemplary of the qualities I'd want in my physician.

 

[Goro]

As I mentioned before, OP would be dead meat at my school. Obviously, the instant gratification of going for the harder choice of directly into a DO school, or doing GPA/MCAT repair wasn't good enough. Or "DO" wasn't good enough.

In the 15+ years I've been on the Adcom, we've interviewed a number of Carib refugees (because we don't pre-screen, much to the faculty's chagrin), and they're 100% DOA for the reason above.

And NWS, nothing like suggesting dishonesty for a profession that places an emphasis on professionalism and high ethics. I think that politics is your natural calling. And that distant sound you hear is the banhammer being armed.

Perhaps we can get some actual admins to weigh in on this since you seem to have all the answers and have talked to some admins that think prior medical school matriculation is something US schools just don't care about... What say you, @Goro, @gyngyn, @LizzyM, and @mcl?

 

[NWS]

LCME accreditation has nothing to do with answering the question honestly. They don't ask if you have matriculated to a US/Canadian medical school. They ask if you have matriculated to ANY medical school. If he says no when the truth is yes and it does manage to come up, you have been caught in a lie. You are recommending that someone on here lie on their application. Per the AMCAS official guidelines:



They don't mention LCME status. Let me highlight the relevant sentence again:



Yes, you can lie. You MIGHT get away with it. What if during your background check they discover that you had a legal address in the Caribbean but that was never disclosed on your applicaton? Your offer would be rescinded. Think you'd ever get a third chance after that one? I don't think so.

Perhaps we can get some actual admins to weigh in on this since you seem to have all the answers and have talked to some admins that think prior medical school matriculation is something US schools just don't care about... What say you, @Goro, @gyngyn, @LizzyM, and @mcl?

Again, none of that would ever be verified because he went to a school not registered in the US system. So what if he had an address in the Caribbean? He could have been vacationing there for all they know or care. This is all just fear mongering with a bunch of what ifs. At the end of the day it's his decision to weigh the pros and cons of it all and make a decision. However, he needed a realistic view of the situation rather than the outright lies of his career being over.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Again, none of that would ever be verified because he went to a school not registered in the US system. So what if he had an address in the Caribbean? He could have been vacationing there for all they know or care. This is all just fear mongering with a bunch of what ifs. At the end of the day it's his decision to weigh the pros and cons of it all and make a decision. However, he needed a realistic view of the situation rather than the outright lies of his career being over.

 

[Goro]

Hey OP, do what this guy says and come back in a few years and let us know how it works out.

Again, none of that would ever be verified because he went to a school not registered in the US system. So what if he had an address in the Caribbean? He could have been vacationing there for all they know or care. This is all just fear mongering with a bunch of what ifs. At the end of the day it's his decision to weigh the pros and cons of it all and make a decision. However, he needed a realistic view of the situation rather than the outright lies of his career being over.

 

[Top Gun]

Again, none of that would ever be verified because he went to a school not registered in the US system. So what if he had an address in the Caribbean? He could have been vacationing there for all they know or care. This is all just fear mongering with a bunch of what ifs. At the end of the day it's his decision to weigh the pros and cons of it all and make a decision. However, he needed a realistic view of the situation rather than the outright lies of his career being over.

Way to encourage unethical behavior. IF the OP got caught lying in his/her application about having attended another medical school, that would mean the end of his/her chances to be a physician, no ifs, ands, or buts. And assuming the OP didn't get caught, would you really want such a person for a physician? For God's sake, show some pride in your profession. We are held to a higher standard than most other professionals for a reason: peoples' lives are at stake!

 

[Dreamstoo]

Heard of two horror stories from family friends that went to AUA. If I remember correctly there bare minimums for acceptance should definitely raise eyebrows by itself. It's definitely a risky option. Outside of the big 4, the Caribbean is really risky.

 

[Dreamstoo]

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[mlbais414]

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[dremt2md]

I was dismissed from caribbean school and really thinking about my options now and looking for feedback/exp from people who have some insight or exp of their own.

Options I am considering right now are:
Applying to lower tier (AUA) - I have concerns because being dismissed is on my record and it getting residencies might be a problem. It all depends on the USMLE.
Applying to DO/ SMP/ Post-bacc - I will have to retake the new MCAT and re-apply go through a lengthy time consuming process with no guarantees at the end.
Switch career - This option i cringe to think about..... Being a doctor is all I wanted to be ever since i could remember. I will consider it if all else fails.

I am taking the AUA route seriously but I still have poking doubts and would love some insight.

Thanks!

Hi can you post an update on your situation? did you go ahead with AUA or was retaking the mcat a real option considering your situation?

 

[MissAA]

DOA at my school, but I suspect that the newer DO programs might take a chance on you.


QUOTE="esotero, post: 16900442, member: 377680"]I was wondering what the chances would be for DO admission if I matriculated at a Caribbean school but voluntarily withdrew after one semester?

I went to Ross in the Caribbean and voluntarily withdrew after one semester (1 failing grade, rest of the grades passing), and after withdrawing I did a postbac with a 3.65 GPA and plan to take the MCAT for a second time in January (first mcat was a 27 in 2012).


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[/QUOTE]
Hi I know this is old. Could you please tell me if you got admission to US medical school?

 

[Goro]

Hi I know this is old. Could you please tell me if you got admission to US medical school?[/QUOTE]
Are you asking me or esotero? The latter hasn't been seen since 2016!

 

[LiveCynic]

Again, none of that would ever be verified because he went to a school not registered in the US system. So what if he had an address in the Caribbean? He could have been vacationing there for all they know or care. This is all just fear mongering with a bunch of what ifs. At the end of the day it's his decision to weigh the pros and cons of it all and make a decision. However, he needed a realistic view of the situation rather than the outright lies of his career being over.

MS1 lurker reading this wants to point out that lying may not always catch up to you, but to think it won't ever do so in a competitive world is naive. Lots of hungry lawyers out there right now... and in the current atmosphere of the US medical system, lots of malpractice lawsuits occur. Not certain of the stats but most physicians at some time will face a lawsuit. This is when lying on an application could be discovered and haunt you. Some clever trial lawyer trying to make the physician look incompetent and/or dishonest may research the credentials of the defendant and see a small gap in their educational history and digs deeper. If s/he finds the previous enrollment and subsequent lie, it could easily be exploited to mar the credibility and competence of the physician... and perhaps have even further ramifications. I think AdComs DO care about little lies for reasons like I just pointed out.

This thread may be old but the idea that lying on an application cannot catch up with you needs to be debunked.

 

[melab]

I was dismissed from caribbean school and really thinking about my options now and looking for feedback/exp from people who have some insight or exp of their own.

Options I am considering right now are:
Applying to lower tier (AUA) - I have concerns because being dismissed is on my record and it getting residencies might be a problem. It all depends on the USMLE.
Applying to DO/ SMP/ Post-bacc - I will have to retake the new MCAT and re-apply go through a lengthy time consuming process with no guarantees at the end.
Switch career - This option i cringe to think about..... Being a doctor is all I wanted to be ever since i could remember. I will consider it if all else fails.

I am taking the AUA route seriously but I still have poking doubts and would love some insight.

Thanks!

What did you end of doing with your life after dismissal ?. Its 2021

 

[samac]

What did you end of doing with your life after dismissal ?. Its 2021

Well he’s not been on since July 2019 so I doubt you will get an answer.