Dismissed from medical school,

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Ethics aside, dude should be expelled just for being dumb. Taking the quiz for the friend was like sticking a loaded gun to your head; you knew there was a chance that it would go off. I mean it's sad that 3 years of grueling work is now down the drain, but from day 1 it's emphasized to the nth degree that the worst/stupidest thing you can do is cheat.
 
Can OP come back and confirm if this was a clicker quiz or a sit down computer exam? Granted, it doesn't matter because the end result is the same but it seems like people might be confused on the actual offense.
 
Stagg737 said:
We're also assuming that this is "all" the person did. As others have stated, we always get 5 pages in and then find out there were 3 other prior offenses or the quiz actually turned out to be a mid-term or that someone lied in front of an honors committee or something ridiculous.

Plus for all we know, this is the first time OP's "friend" was caught, that doesn't mean there wasn't other instances which is what med schools are also concerned about.
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Assumption is the mother of all ****ups
 
Mad Jack said:
Personally I would have dropped a serious red flag for academic dishonesty, basically ensuring a failed match. In a way that's even worse than dismissal- at least they saved him time and money by kicking him to the curb instead of sabotaging him.
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I don't agree, most of these people can still obtain a spot through soap
 
Mad Jack said:
That's what always gets me about these threads. What line do the entitled medical students of today believe one must cross fit expulsion, if not cheating or physical and verbal assault? Should I be able to get in bar fights and cheat on all of my exams and just get a free pass forever? Medical students should have a higher standard of ethical behavior than the rest of society, not a lower one.
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If verbal assault was grounds for expulsion, my school would have multiple open positions in its obgyn residency.
 
masaraksh said:
Assumption is the mother of all ****ups
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Right, and a lot of us are saying that assuming his/her record is clean other than this event, we still think expulsion is valid even if it may be slightly harsh. If OP/OP's friend has more on his/her record then it's a no-brainer.
 
Let's not push the OP over the edge, and maybe stop acting high and mighty.

Maybe a little bit more understanding and compassion?

All humans make mistakes. The OP just happened to get caught.

Let he without sin cast the first stone. John 3-16
 
sazerac said:
If verbal assault was grounds for expulsion, my school would have multiple open positions in its obgyn residency.
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Mad Jack said:
physical and verbal assault?
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Ouch.
By the way, what does "not able to make it that day" mean? :bullcrap:More like, he paid you to take the quiz for him. If he was absent for a legitimate reason, I'm sure he could have been excused. If he overslept and texted you his ID and PW, and you took the quiz for him.......:smack:
 
Light at end of tunnel said:
Let's not push the OP over the edge, and maybe stop acting high and mighty.

Maybe a little bit more understanding and compassion?

All humans make mistakes. The OP just happened to get caught.

Let he without sin cast the first stone. John 3-16
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John 3:16 is "For God so loved the world..."

If you're gonna troll, then do it well.
 
colbgw02 said:
John 3:16 is "For God so loved the world..."

If you're gonna troll, then do it well.
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Lighten up, will ya. You'll live longer.

But now that you mention it, John 3:16 doesnt sound bad either.
 
Light at end of tunnel said:
Lighten up, will ya. You'll live longer.

But now that you mention it, John 3:16 doesnt sound bad either.
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I have high trolling standards, and I'm not going to apologize for that. Skillful trolling is an artform, an art that I dare not attempt, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit by idly while I tolerate a half-hearted effort.
 
If the handbook says you could get expelled for cheating, and if it was clear at orientation that this is a potential consequence, then I would have made the same decision if I were a school administrator.

If the expectation of being expelled wasn't made crystal clear from the start, then I wouldn't expell the kid. There are too many people nowadays who don't regard cheating as being that serious.
 
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colbgw02 said:
I have high trolling standards, and I'm not going to apologize for that. Skillful trolling is an artform, an art that I dare not attempt, but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit by idly while I tolerate a half-hearted effort.
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I'm gonna turn the other cheek on this one; have a nice evening.
 
hellobello18 said:
Can OP come back and confirm if this was a clicker quiz or a sit down computer exam? Granted, it doesn't matter because the end result is the same but it seems like people might be confused on the actual offense.
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The clicker was mentioned by a poster, not the OP. I doubt 3rd yrs are taking clicker question exams (do 1st and 2nd yrs take any clickers exams that count for anything at any school?)
 
Ugh, this isn't high school. You aren't given a pass for this crap anymore. Nor should you be. How long have you been in academia? At MS 3 you know darn well that you don't have any business doing anything that resembles cheating or misrepresentation. This is academics... you have one job, be a honest student..if you're having trouble with grades or personal stuff, that can all be addressed and helped. Cheating is a one way ticket to getting g kicked our of class or expelled. This is med school the stakes are higher and consequences compounded. This situation brings up more than one issue. There is 1) misrepresentation 2) lying and being sneaky 3) you are allowing another person to seek rewards that they didn't earn 4) exploitation/possible blackmail.
It's just brings into question alot of things on character. You're an adult and if you're willing to go there then you accept the consequences. Yes it's just a quiz but why the heck would you risk it. Dude, was it worth it though?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
 
Light at end of tunnel said:
Will do, maybe later though.

For now, how about we make this thread a tad bit less suicidy for the OP and maybe offer constructive help.

We can all agree that they have a committed a potentially unforgivable offense...
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SDN is not where you come to give yourself a reason not to off yourself lmao...
 
He could likely still graduate from Caribbean. We had a student who was caught blatantly cheating do that and match afterwards.
 
Expulsion isn't the ONLY sanction available. Everyone acts as if these single acts are somehow proof of an immutably sick, morally bankrupt mind that must be weeded out of the profession immediately. I mean, people are literally bringing up "kiddie-diddlers" and someone who went on a drunken rampage -- I would prefer for my future physicians to have more of a sense of appropriateness for the situation, if not compassion.

Just because the administration CAN expel someone for this, doesn't mean that the punishment fits the crime. There are other extreme punishments, such as a year's suspension, that could be given, but so many of you clearly think nothing short of expulsion should be given for any infraction.
 
NYCNative said:
Expulsion isn't the ONLY sanction available. Everyone acts as if these single acts are somehow proof of an immutably sick, morally bankrupt mind that must be weeded out of the profession immediately. I mean, people are literally bringing up "kiddie-diddlers" and someone who went on a drunken rampage -- I would prefer for my future physicians to have more of a sense of appropriateness for the situation, if not compassion.

Just because the administration CAN expel someone for this, doesn't mean that the punishment fits the crime. There are other extreme punishments, such as a year's suspension, that could be given, but so many of you clearly think nothing short of expulsion should be given for any infraction.
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Save your compassion for patients who are victims of unethical med students and doctors.
 
Goro said:
Your friend's medical career is over. Time to move on to something else.

Getting sanctioned for fraud and cheating is harsh? What exactly would one have to do to merit expulsion in your view? Kill someone?
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this made me LOL. so true!
 
it is just the harsh reality of being in a field that eats its own.
i am sorry for your position i think the school should have handled it better and appear to be sending a message at your cost
i dont think what you did was that egregious that deserved an immediate expulsion and instead should have been given the opportunity to remediate.
im sure that people become even better after a learning experience and there was no need to just trash what someone has worked for all their life over a computer test.
i have witnessed much more go on and if this was academic dishonesty i agree that just using multiple clickers in class is no different. the line is a fine one, and you obviously crossed it but the decision to cut you off is just very sad.
 
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Stagg737 said:
We're also assuming that this is "all" the person did. As others have stated, we always get 5 pages in and then find out there were 3 other prior offenses or the quiz actually turned out to be a mid-term or that someone lied in front of an honors committee or something ridiculous.

Plus for all we know, this is the first time OP's "friend" was caught, that doesn't mean there wasn't other instances which is what med schools are also concerned about.
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This. From just the first few sentences the punishment seems a little harsh (if it was a make-sure-you're-showing-up-at-didactics quiz... not if it was a real exam), but also well within the school's rights, as I doubt any school takes academic dishonesty lightly. My guess is there's more to the story than OP and/or OP's friend is letting on, and the "crime" was either more dramatic than described or is part of a pattern.

Also, I haven't read through page 2 yet, so maybe the reveal has already happened.
 
We can wax and wane and point fingers and feel
better about ourselves for "never in a million years would I EVER do something as stupid as OP"...that isnt gonna change the fact that worse things happen by higher ups in academics on a daily basis.

Give me a break.

Dirtier deeds regularly are swept under the rug when considerend against the interest of the "institution."
Heaven forbid you become a scapegoat opportunity for your institution to demonstrate that it "plays by the rules" by making a display of your righteous termination.

Did OP mess up, big time? Absolutely.

But at least they are openly admitting as much, which is more than most would dare to do. Thats gotta count for something.
 
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