Dismissed from US MD school how will this affect my application to AA and PA programs?

[champion1]

Hi,

Looking for some guidance on this thread. I was dismissed from a US MD school last year for academic performance. I was a second year medical student who failed two courses infectious disease and neurology and did not pass the makeup exams which led to my dismissal from medical school. I am also in the appeal process of trying to get readmitted for the class this fall to repeat the second year of medical school. I realize there are no guarantees. Family has advised getting a lawyer to assist with the process.

I am strongly considering pursuing different careers in healthcare such as AA and PA. How badly does a dismissal from a US MD school impact my application to these other professions? I notice there are questions on the application about this matter as well as reporting of transcripts….

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[Mad Jack]

Although this is much more rare, there are previous MD students who enter AA programs. Someone I know left a T20 med (Umich) after MS1 to enter one of Nova’s programs. Point being, you wouldn’t be in unprecedented territory if you pivoted to AA after being in a MD program OP. And another N=1, but someone this cycle got into Indiana’s AA program after being dismissed from their MD program after too many Step 1 failures. OP, I don’t think the dismissal would hinder your application much at all for the AA admissions cycle, especially if you had a strong pre med app (which you most likely did if you got into a US MD program).

AA would be easier to swing than PA. NP would be even easier still.

 

[FutureSurgical]

Anecdotal evidence: I have a good friend who got kicked out of medical school (MD) for not studying much in her first year. Academic probation spring semester and didn’t pass her classes again. She was pulled into the deans office to get her side of things. The admin really tried to get her to say she had something going on in life that interrupted her studies (family/friend death, illness, anything.) She proceeded to tell them she just didn’t know how to study and was too lazy to figure out how to get better. Dismissed from school.

She got her act together for 3 years by working and doing a SMP. Got a 4.0 in it, got a 51X on her MCAT, and got into a DO school. She’s currently getting honors in her rotations and applying to residency. I wouldn’t say you’re DOA if you really want to redeem yourself with an SMP if you don’t get reinstated.

As for why she didn’t really “try hard” the first time around, I’m not too sure. She was vague about it. She wanted to be there, but she didn’t really find out she had depression for YEARS until a year out from dismissal from the first medical school. Doesn’t really make sense to me, but that’s what I was given lol.

Edit to add: this was not a new DO school. It has a great track record with getting grads into good residencies

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Anecdotal evidence: I have a good friend who got kicked out of medical school (MD) for not studying much in her first year. Academic probation spring semester and didn’t pass her classes again. She was pulled into the deans office to get her side of things. The admin really tried to get her to say she had something going on in life that interrupted her studies (family/friend death, illness, anything.) She proceeded to tell them she just didn’t know how to study and was too lazy to figure out how to get better. Dismissed from school.

She got her act together for 3 years by working and doing a SMP. Got a 4.0 in it, got a 51X on her MCAT, and got into a DO school. She’s currently getting honors in her rotations and applying to residency. I wouldn’t say you’re DOA if you really want to redeem yourself with an SMP if you don’t get reinstated.

As for why she didn’t really “try hard” the first time around, I’m not too sure. She was vague about it. She wanted to be there, but she didn’t really find out she had depression for YEARS until a year out from dismissal from the first medical school. Doesn’t really make sense to me, but that’s what I was given lol.

I’d hold off on calling it a success story until she matches. Hoping it works out for her.

 

[YCAGA]

Are they though? If you look into this, the only people saying CRNAs are cheaper are admins and CRNAs. And they are going exclusively by salary. They don’t take into account any of the other costs, which can actually make it more expensive to replace with only CRNAs.

I am not sure how the business-centric math ever works out in anesthesiologists benefit if we compare 4:1 to MD only (and DO but it is called MD only often). With 4 OR's to cover:
- 4 MD anesthesiologists each with their own OR x $465k/yr = $1.86 MM
- 4 CRNA's supervised by 1 MD = $465k/yr + 4 x $175k = $1.17 MM

This is using MGMA medians so their definition total comp which includes benefits. The difference in cost is further magnified if you have CRNA's taking first call. You can also get the MD to be more likely to be on board by giving them a $100k pay bump since they are technically responsible for much more billing. Even for high risk stuff like cardiac, you drop the ratio to 2:1, bump the CRNA to $200k and require them to do a "cardiac residency" (1 yr) and still save on paying 2 cardiac trained anesthesoligsts. Just have the MD come in for induction, coming on/off pump, TEE, and emergence.

And before someone gets started on "but but but CRNA's will cost so much in malpractice!" Why has that not stopped the 4:1 model for the past 20+ years? You really think dozens of healthcare systems haven't run the numbers of salary minus malpractice minus complications? Come on now. The sad fact is that admin and CRNA's believe they are "good enough" to justify the huge cost savings, especially because anesthesia is an expense, not a revenue generator.

Now, from an ethical and patient perspective, I definitely think you get what you pay for and the premium for MD only practices are worth it. "Good enough" is not good enough when it comes to patient care.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I am not sure how the business-centric math ever works out in anesthesiologists benefit if we compare 4:1 to MD only (and DO but it is called MD only often). With 4 OR's to cover:
- 4 MD anesthesiologists each with their own OR x $465k/yr = $1.86 MM
- 4 CRNA's supervised by 1 MD = $465k/yr + 4 x $175k = $1.17 MM

This is using MGMA medians so their definition total comp which includes benefits. The difference in cost is further magnified if you have CRNA's taking first call. You can also get the MD to be more likely to be on board by giving them a $100k pay bump since they are technically responsible for much more billing. Even for high risk stuff like cardiac, you drop the ratio to 2:1, bump the CRNA to $200k and require them to do a "cardiac residency" (1 yr) and still save on paying 2 cardiac trained anesthesoligsts. Just have the MD come in for induction, coming on/off pump, TEE, and emergence.

And before someone gets started on "but but but CRNA's will cost so much in malpractice!" Why has that not stopped the 4:1 model for the past 20+ years? You really think dozens of healthcare systems haven't run the numbers of salary minus malpractice minus complications? Come on now. The sad fact is that admin and CRNA's believe they are "good enough" to justify the huge cost savings, especially because anesthesia is an expense, not a revenue generator.

Now, from an ethical and patient perspective, I definitely think you get what you pay for and the premium for MD only practices are worth it. "Good enough" is not good enough when it comes to patient care.

Yeah the ACT model is probably the most cost effective. Haven’t looked too much into it since I have no interest in anesthesia. But just a cursory glance seems to indicate CRNA only is more costly in many cases.