Dispel the myth about salary?

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cpwalker

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OK, so I am seeing in the threads that average salary for starting dentist are ranging from 100-177k. My concern is, is this base salary plus or a commissions based figure. What is the bottom line? I am hearing a lot of negative things concerning dentists not making adequate money, having to take PT jobs, not being able to cover loan payments. I hear that working as an associate the Dr. expects you to produce and will only pay you for what you produce? How do you attract patients and produce when you are just out of d-school. Someone please help me with the hard core facts?

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OK, so I am seeing in the threads that average salary for starting dentist are ranging from 100-177k. My concern is, is this base salary plus or a commissions based figure. What is the bottom line? I am hearing a lot of negative things concerning dentists not making adequate money, having to take PT jobs, not being able to cover loan payments. I hear that working as an associate the Dr. expects you to produce and will only pay you for what you produce? How do you attract patients and produce when you are just out of d-school. Someone please help me with the hard core facts?


dentistry is Not easy. It takes time, work, and motivation to gain skills
Many are greedy and will offer the least for the most production.
Find the right practice.



, if you work for someone else and the practice is slow(many) and you are an average ethical dentist with no post up training, you will not even make those numbers.

if you luck out and the practice is in a good area with a senior dentist mentoring and pushing you, you will do okay. 100k in most middle class area



if you take the challenge and start a practice, even at a slow rate
and loan payments, you'll do 100k-200k
 
dentistry is a business: Answer: how good is it?

just as there are one lawyer making millions, there's another 50
making $500k, another 1000 making $300k and another 10,000 making $150k

there is no set number but if you take the risk and start your practice, according to the ADA, GP owners average $177k; employee average much less:

of course there are some netting
millions, 500k but it all depends on years of practice, location, skill levels,
office hrs, etc
 
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I am hearing a lot of negative things concerning dentists not making adequate money, having to take PT jobs, not being able to cover loan payments.
Your success out of school will depend on a lot of factors, but for what it's worth, I've never heard of anyone with the troubles you describe here.
 
If you produce $1500 a day with 4 weeks off (240 working days), then if you take home 35% of that (most associates get this) then you are making $126,000 a year. $1500 a day is a RCT, crown and a couple fillings. Very easy to do. It is not that hard to make money in dentistry.
 
If you produce $1500 a day with 4 weeks off (240 working days), then if you take home 35% of that (most associates get this) then you are making $126,000 a year. $1500 a day is a RCT, crown and a couple fillings. Very easy to do. It is not that hard to make money in dentistry.


Some areas of the country will have you doing $1500 a day in production with just an endo and a couple of fillings, heck, some areas of the country will have you doing MORE than $1500 a day in production with just 1 molar endo.

If you can work with a full schedule, even on a day where you're just doing basic fillings all day long with no "big " procedures in your schedule, you'll be suprised at how quickly the production mounts up. Then, when you ge to the owner's level, your schedule might not be that different from that of an associates, but you're income then also taps into the pool of money generated by your hygenists, and with a couple of hygenists working for you, that can become quite a substantial pool of $$ too!
 
Some areas of the country will have you doing $1500 a day in production with just an endo and a couple of fillings, heck, some areas of the country will have you doing MORE than $1500 a day in production with just 1 molar endo.

If you can work with a full schedule, even on a day where you're just doing basic fillings all day long with no "big " procedures in your schedule, you'll be suprised at how quickly the production mounts up. Then, when you ge to the owner's level, your schedule might not be that different from that of an associates, but you're income then also taps into the pool of money generated by your hygenists, and with a couple of hygenists working for you, that can become quite a substantial pool of $$ too!

I was under the impression that most offices broke even or came out slightly ahead ($1-5/hr per hygenist) on their hygenists based on dentaltown, but what do I know.. I haven't even started dental school yet.
 
But is that based on the existing patients at the practice or the ones I have to bring into the practice?
 
I was under the impression that most offices broke even or came out slightly ahead ($1-5/hr per hygenist) on their hygenists based on dentaltown, but what do I know.. I haven't even started dental school yet.
Conventional wisdom is that 1/3 of your hygiene production should cover their overhead, another 1/3 goes in their pocket, and the last 1/3 in yours. If someone is only earning a dollar an hour on your hygienists, they're getting hosed.
 
I was under the impression that most offices broke even or came out slightly ahead ($1-5/hr per hygenist) on their hygenists based on dentaltown, but what do I know.. I haven't even started dental school yet.

If a dental office, especially a new office with a lot of equipment and start up overhead, participates with a lot of weak plans, HMO's, PPO's or capitation it is very possible that they are making only enough to cover the hygienist's overhead and pay, possibly not even enough to cover that. Some of these plans pay ridiculously low amounts for some services, including prophies.

Note: Participating with a plan and accepting the plan are two different things. If you participate you agree to accept reduce fees. Some plans are restrictive. If a patients chooses to go out of network, to a dentist that does not participate, the insurance company will cover nothing; however, some plans will allow patients to go out-of-network and still contribute the same amount towards the patient's bill.
 
I was under the impression that most offices broke even or came out slightly ahead ($1-5/hr per hygenist) on their hygenists based on dentaltown, but what do I know.. I haven't even started dental school yet.

With the fee schedule in my practice, a prophy and if needed 4 bitewings runs about $125. Same basic billed fees for kids with prophy, 2 bitewings and fluoride tx. Even if no films are taken during that visit, it still ends up being around $80 billed by my hygenists per patient visit. Yes, prophy fees will vary around the country, but hygenists wages tend to vary with the prophy fees. Aphistis's 1/3,1/3,1/3 breakdown is pretty close to what it runs in my office, so my partner and I end up splitting a little more than $1 to $5 and hour per hygenist:D And that doesn't even take into account our doctors exam fee that goes along with those previously mentioned billing fees. Multiply that by a couple hygenists, and then 8+ patients per day per hygenist over the course of a year and it adds up.

If someone is only making $1 to $5 an hour from their hygiene department, they're either a) overpaying their hygenist and b) undercharging for their services(often due to insurance company participation:eek: )
 
Conventional wisdom is that 1/3 of your hygiene production should cover their overhead, another 1/3 goes in their pocket, and the last 1/3 in yours. If someone is only earning a dollar an hour on your hygienists, they're getting hosed.

With the fee schedule in my practice, a prophy and if needed 4 bitewings runs about $125. Same basic billed fees for kids with prophy, 2 bitewings and fluoride tx. Even if no films are taken during that visit, it still ends up being around $80 billed by my hygenists per patient visit. Yes, prophy fees will vary around the country, but hygenists wages tend to vary with the prophy fees. Aphistis's 1/3,1/3,1/3 breakdown is pretty close to what it runs in my office, so my partner and I end up splitting a little more than $1 to $5 and hour per hygenist:D And that doesn't even take into account our doctors exam fee that goes along with those previously mentioned billing fees. Multiply that by a couple hygenists, and then 8+ patients per day per hygenist over the course of a year and it adds up.

If someone is only making $1 to $5 an hour from their hygiene department, they're either a) overpaying their hygenist and b) undercharging for their services(often due to insurance company participation:eek: )


Very, very informative guys. Thank you! So more like $12 or more an hour.
 
If a dental office, especially a new office with a lot of equipment and start up overhead, participates with a lot of weak plans, HMO's, PPO's or capitation it is very possible that they are making only enough to cover the hygienist's overhead and pay, possibly not even enough to cover that. Some of these plans pay ridiculously low amounts for some services, including prophies.

Note: Participating with a plan and accepting the plan are two different things. If you participate you agree to accept reduce fees. Some plans are restrictive. If a patients chooses to go out of network, to a dentist that does not participate, the insurance company will cover nothing; however, some plans will allow patients to go out-of-network and still contribute the same amount towards the patient's bill.

So are you making the argument that you can use hygiene "to get the patients in the door" or as a "loss leader." If so, is this realistic or is it best practice to come out with a profit in every category?

My gut says make everything pay for itself, but if somebody wants a cleaning, they are going to be less likely to shop around for a relatively cheaper service such as a cleaning as opposed to a crown or rct.
 
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So are you making the argument that you can use hygiene "to get the patients in the door" or as a "loss leader." If so, is this realistic or is it best practice to come out with a profit in every category?

My gut says make everything pay for itself, but if somebody wants a cleaning, they are going to be less likely to shop around for a relatively cheaper service such as a cleaning as opposed to a crown or rct.

If you choose to participate in one of the HMO type plans, then hygiene may very well operate at a slight loss with what those reimbursement rates are. However, hygiene then will allow you to get a greater volume of patients through your doors, where you will end up finding additional work for you to do on some of those hygiene patients(once again if your in a managed care style plan, your care will be at a discounted rate too:eek: ). This is how the ins. companies market these managed care plans to dentists, as a way to help fill empty chair space. In reality though in many offices, your profit margin in these plans is very minimal(if at all) due to the heavily discounted fees that they have you accepting, and the volume you need to see to make them work goes up, and hence the time you spend with each patient goes down. If you want to practice that way, great, if you don't, be carefullwhen signing up with ins. plans.
 
Very, very informative guys. Thank you! So more like $12 or more an hour.

Thats the low end, more often that number is in the $30 to $50+ an hour range. Simply because with the 1/3rd, 1/3rd 1/3rd model, the 1/3 hygienist salary is something that we figure into the overhead portion, and those two combined are most of the time in the 50-55% range, not the 2/3rd's range:thumbup:
 
Thats the low end, more often that number is in the $30 to $50+ an hour range. Simply because with the 1/3rd, 1/3rd 1/3rd model, the 1/3 hygienist salary is something that we figure into the overhead portion, and those two combined are most of the time in the 50-55% range, not the 2/3rd's range:thumbup:

That is excellent news! Something to take into consideration because it isn't "something for nothing".

Don't you have to spend about 10 minutes on every hour per hygenist doing an oral exam, etc... This eats up pure "procedure time."

So, if you are supervising the maximum of three hygenists as the regulations were recently changed to. You would be spending about half the day covering "hygeine supervisor" duties?

Ouch!
 
That is excellent news! Something to take into consideration because it isn't "something for nothing".


Don't you have to spend about 10 minutes on every hour per hygenist doing an oral exam, etc... This eats up pure "procedure time."

So, if you are supervising the maximum of three hygenists as the regulations were recently changed to. You would be spending about half the day covering "hygeine supervisor" duties?

Ouch!

Most hygiene checks can be done in a 2 to 3 minute span. Occassionally if either myself, or my patient gets verbose, then it might be in that 5 to 7 minute range (often during those, either my hygienist or my assistant is looking at me, rolling her eyes, and giving me the "hurry up" look:D
 
That is excellent news! Something to take into consideration because it isn't "something for nothing".

Don't you have to spend about 10 minutes on every hour per hygenist doing an oral exam, etc... This eats up pure "procedure time."

So, if you are supervising the maximum of three hygenists as the regulations were recently changed to. You would be spending about half the day covering "hygeine supervisor" duties?

Ouch!

During procedures you have down time to do these checks, so in reality you are not wasting any procedure time. Example, while a PVS impression is setting, while your patient is getting numb, when you need an xray to determine an endodontic WL, etc..etc... Hygiene in a good practice is a major money maker, and is where the majority of your production schedule will be filled from.
 
During procedures you have down time to do these checks, so in reality you are not wasting any procedure time. Example, while a PVS impression is setting, while your patient is getting numb, when you need an xray to determine an endodontic WL, etc..etc... Hygiene in a good practice is a major money maker, and is where the majority of your production schedule will be filled from.

Don't forget the biggest benefit, all the running from room to room all day long keeps the extra pounds off:D ;)

Actually it really isn't that bad do for the exact reasons that OceanDMD said, where the vast majoirty of the time you'll integrate a check into normal treatment "downtime" and if your hygenists are working at roughly the same pace on the same age bracket of patients, it generally limits the number of times/hour you need to leave your operatory/office to do checks.

When it gets fun is when you have different age groups in your hygenists schedules where one might be booked for 30 minutes with a child, another for 45 minutes for a young teen and another for an hour with an adult, and your partner is out of the office on vacation and you get to manage all the hygenists(Oh wait, that's just my day today:cool: )
 
Some areas of the country will have you doing $1500 a day in production with just an endo and a couple of fillings, heck, some areas of the country will have you doing MORE than $1500 a day in production with just 1 molar endo.
My local dentist does a single posterior crown for $1,000. She doesn't have CEREC machine, but she would make a killing if she did, and save time for re-scheduling to complete the crown after the lab work.

On the same day, she was seeing another patient who hasnt seen a dentist for 2 decades... serious anterior restorations and cosmetic work. His bill for this treatment was in the $3,000 range.

She also has 2 hygienists who see ~6-8 patients a day, and would say the total office production to be about $10k for a typical day. Some days those hygienist have assistants who cut the time to work on patients half.... smart set-up to generate more $$$ for the office (and ultimately for the owner).

90% of the successful offices I have seen have great management (doctors with great business skills). These dentists mastered the art of customer (patient) service, they have excellent communication skills, they make every patient feel like he/she is the only patient they have. These doctors also keep their staff happy (give them professional courtesy deals- discounted treatments for the staff and their families). As a result, the office functions to its fullest potential, the office markets itself through patients, and so on.

Bottom line, every dentist is one step away from being rich. That is... being business savvy.
 
So are you making the argument that you can use hygiene "to get the patients in the door" or as a "loss leader." If so, is this realistic or is it best practice to come out with a profit in every category?

My gut says make everything pay for itself, but if somebody wants a cleaning, they are going to be less likely to shop around for a relatively cheaper service such as a cleaning as opposed to a crown or rct.


No, I was not making the argument that you can use hygiene, "To get patients in the door." I was proposing an explanation why some dentists on Dentaltown are saying they make very little off their hygiene production. Their intention is unknown to you or I.

Regarding the comment by another poster about the dentist that makes $1000/crown, as we do, we, she, make that amount because we do not participate with PPO's, HMO's and capitation, with the exception of Delta Dental. If we did, if they did, we would not be getting $1000/crown. The secret of this success is simply to not participate with crappy plans. It's very simple.
 
My local dentist does a single posterior crown for $1,000. His bill for this treatment was in the $3,000 range.

She also has 2 hygienists who see ~6-8 patients a day, and would say the total office production to be about $10k for a typical day.


But how many can or are willing to pay $1000/crown ????
here the crowns are $640 and endo molar $620 but a majority cannot afford
even with insurance paying 33% to 50%

it ends up turning into an amalgam or exo--

true fact they rather use the money for recreation etc;

teeth are the last thing they care about.

if you take HMO or medicaid; you are in trouble

I doubt if most patients willl accept $1000/crown even if insurance pays half
 
If you produce $1500 a day with 4 weeks off (240 working days), then if you take home 35% of that (most associates get this) then you are making $126,000 a year. $1500 a day is a RCT, crown and a couple fillings. Very easy to do. It is not that hard to make money in dentistry.

I disagree, it can be done but it's Not easy. You can only produce if you have the patients and if they accept your treatment and show.
dentistry is expensive and many cannot afford or don't care
they are stingy when it comes to dentistry. they expect free work
 
But how many can or are willing to pay $1000/crown ????
here the crowns are $640 and endo molar $620 but a majority cannot afford
even with insurance paying 33% to 50%
Not everyone lives in your hood. :cool:

Like Lesley said, "The secret of this success is simply to not participate with crappy plans."

I agree, dental visit costs varies across the country. A dentist in (let's say) Boston will have a more expensive price structure that a dentist in an average midwest city. Even then, every city in this country consists variety of communities (under-served, middle and over-served), hence different dentists will accept different plans depending on the community.

If I travel 2-3 zipcodes in any direction out of mine, I doubt any of the dentists in those areas will charge $1,000 for a crown.

FYI: A root canal around where I live is $1,500

It's all relative.
 
My local dentist does a single posterior crown for $1,000. His bill for this treatment was in the $3,000 range.

She also has 2 hygienists who see ~6-8 patients a day, and would say the total office production to be about $10k for a typical day.


But how many can or are willing to pay $1000/crown ????
here the crowns are $640 and endo molar $620 but a majority cannot afford
even with insurance paying 33% to 50%

it ends up turning into an amalgam or exo--

true fact they rather use the money for recreation etc;

teeth are the last thing they care about.

if you take HMO or medicaid; you are in trouble

I doubt if most patients willl accept $1000/crown even if insurance pays half

It all depends on where you practice. Where I practice(small town midwest near a big city) molar endo 1200, crown 975, buildup 315. No PPO or HMO

And in my area you are wrong most patients will accept 1000/crown.

Just say no to PPO and HMO:laugh:
 
FYI: A root canal around where I live is $1,500

It's all relative.

I agree


ex in Netwon, Ma the household income is $98,000--these people can afford these prices but in my town the household income is $34,000--we cannot
charge these prices;


think of this
if you needed 2 root canal, 2 post, 2 crowns today at $5500: can you do it? or will you exo
 
It all depends on where you practice. Where I practice(small town midwest near a big city) molar endo 1200, crown 975, buildup 315. No PPO or HMO

And in my area you are wrong most patients will accept 1000/crown.

Just say no to PPO and HMO:laugh:

Very similar numbers in my rural Northeast CT town. Latest Delta Dental Fees are just over $1000 for both the molar endo and a crown and the build up is just over $250. Below is the 2005 demographics from city-data.com for the town where I practice: "Population (year 2000): 9,002. Estimated population in July 2005: 9,288 (+3.2% change)

Males: 4,297 (47.7%)
Females: 4,705 (52.3%)

Windham County

Zip codes: 06260.

Median resident age: 38.3 years
Estimated median household income in 2005: $45,500 (it was $43,010 in 2000)
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $188,000 (it was $108,000 in 2000)"

I end up doing well over 80% of the endos/crowns that I suggest to my patients, and of the teeth that end up being extracted close to half of them will end up with an implant in that newly edentulous area. Pretty much my style of case presentation to the patient is as follows "Mr X, your tooth has an infected nerve which we have to deal with by either having a root canal and a crown doen to your tooth or it has to be removed. The x-ray shows that the bone levels around your tooth are very good, so if you choose to save your tooth via the root canal and crown it has a very good long term prognosis. Even with insurance, your out of pocket expense will likely be around $1000 or more, I'll have the front desk get the exact insurance estimate number for you. Don't panic about this, we'll get you set on on a plan where you can chip away at that number in an amount and timeframe that works for you"

Many folks will accept and have the tx paid off in 6 months tops, some are on what I call the 5 year plan, but they faithfully bring their $25 a month. I've found that the "hard sell" where you hit the patient with "It will be $2000 for that root canal and crown, you'll owe 1/2 right now before we start and the second half in about a month before we cement the crown" tactic led to alot more extractions. The ability to picture yourself in the chair, listening to what your saying and how it affects your patient can greatly affect how you present your treatment plans to patients, That and has been said, don't sign up with crappy insurance plans!
 
It all depends on where you practice. Where I practice(small town midwest near a big city) molar endo 1200, crown 975, buildup 315. No PPO or HMO

And in my area you are wrong most patients will accept 1000/crown.

Just say no to PPO and HMO:laugh:

What exactly is a PPO and HMO...sorry for the newbie question.
 
What exactly is a PPO and HMO...sorry for the newbie question.

PPO = Preferred Provider Organization. This is an insurance plan where if you choose to particpate with the plan(lets say with Delta Dental for arguement sake) you will be listed as a preferred provider in a list that is given to all enrollee's whose employer has chosen that Delta Dental Plan. Employees who have this PPO plan can choose any dentist enrolled as a PPO provider and receive the PPO benefits. The plan will have you accepting a fee schedule determined by the insurance company that theoretically is set based on the fees of other dentists within your immediate geographic area(generally within a couple of zipcodes of where your office is). This PPO fee schedule will often be set as a percentage of what is called the UCR fees(Usual, Customary and Reasonable). Most decent PPO's will have UCR fees at the 90% level for an area, meaning that the fee the insurance company pays out is at the 90th percentile of fees in that area. If you're enrolled in that PPO, the contract that the insurance company has with you says that for them listing you as a preferred provider and theoretically steering the patients enrolled with them towards your office, the maximum you can charge those enrolled patients is the UCR set by the insurance company and you can't bill the patient the difference(if any). For example, Lets say you're a Delta Dental PPO enrolled dentist and your fee for a 1 surface amalgam filling is $110, but Delta's UCR fee for that filling is $100. If a Delta Dental enrolled patient comes to your office and you do that 1 surface amalgam on them, you can only charge them the $100 and you write off the extra $10. What then happens since most insurance plans will cover 80% of the UCR for restorative fees, is that Delta will actually pay out $80 for that filling, and then you can bill the difference upto the UCR fee. So in this case, you end up charging $110, writing off $10, receiving $80 from Delta Dental and $20 from the patient. Yes, its confusing at times, especially since the percent of a fee covered varies depending on the plan (generally preventative is 100%, restorative is 80% and endo+crown and bridge is 50%), and the patient has a yearly maximum($1000 - $2000 is the normal range), which if you then go over that amount, you can bill the patient for the entire procedure upto the UCR. These PPO plans tend to be liked by patients and dentists. Some proceedures that you may do may not be a covered procedure, where the patient is responsible for that fee, and sometimes the insurance company will either downcode(i.e. you do a posterior composite, but the insurance company will only reimburse upto the amalgam fee for the same sized filling and the patient is responsible for the difference upto the UCR fee) or bundle codes (i.e. a patient comes in for a cleaning, bitewings and a periodic exam, 3 seperate billing codes, but the insurance company will bundle it together into an "adult recall" as 1 code at usually a couple of dollars less than the 3 individual codes would be)

HMO (Health Maintenance Organization) or for the dental side is sometimes called a DMO (dental Maintenance Organization). These aren't well liked by dentists generally, but employers tend to like them because they cost them less than a PPO. How a HMO/DMO works is that if you choose to enroll in one as a dentist, the insurance company will again list you as a HMO/DMO provider. For the companies that choose this insurance option for their employees, if they choose you as a their dentist, they have to enroll notify the insurance company that you will be their dentist. The insurance company will then pay you a flat fee monthly for you to provide what ever care that enrolled person needs. If they just need a cleaning twice a year, you'll make money off the deal, if they need alot of work, you'll loose money on that patient. Basically for most HMO's/DMO's to be financially attractive to you as a dentist, you need to have ALOT of patients enrolled with you, and hope that they either don't come in to see you regularly, or if they do that they don't need alot of work. Insurance companies will advertise this plan to dentists as a way to "fill empty chair time". Most dentists don't like this and hence don't enroll in one of them as a provider.

The third major type of insurance plan out there is the FFS or Fee For Service. This is where insurance plans originated. Basically, a person enrolled in a fee for service plan can see who ever they want as a dentist, often reguardless of whether that dentist is enrolled as a provder with that insurance company, and then the insurance company will reimburse at the dentist's full fee upto a yearly maximum. As a dentist, you tend to really like these few and far between plans.

After you've seen a few of them firsthand, it gets alot easier to comprehend. Often, you'll pcik and choose what plans (if any) you decide to enroll with based on what the major businesses in your area use for dental insurance plans and what the offered fee schedules are. One other little caveat that many insurance companies will include in their contracts with you is a clause that basically states that within a type of plan(FFS, PPO, HMO/DMO) if you're enrolled with similar plans from other insurance companies, the fee that they pay you will not be above the lowest fee you accept(i.e. back to that 1 surface amalgam, if your fee is $110, and your enrolled as a PPO with Delta Delta and Aetna, if Delta's UCR for that is $100 and Aetna's is $95, Delta will only reimburse upto the $95 and once again you can't bill the difference)

Bottom line, choose your plans wisely, and don't hesitate to use the resources of the contract laywers that the ADA has on staff to review and advise you of the many, many insurance plans you'll be offered to enroll in.
 
Very similar numbers in my rural Northeast CT town. Latest Delta Dental Fees are just over $1000 for both the molar endo and a crown and the build up is just over $250. Below is the 2005 demographics from city-data.com for the town where I practice: "Population (year 2000): 9,002. Estimated population in July 2005: 9,288 (+3.2% change)

Males: 4,297 (47.7%)
Females: 4,705 (52.3%)

Windham County

Zip codes: 06260.

Median resident age: 38.3 years
Estimated median household income in 2005: $45,500 (it was $43,010 in 2000)
Estimated median house/condo value in 2005: $188,000 (it was $108,000 in 2000)"

I end up doing well over 80% of the endos/crowns that I suggest to my patients, and of the teeth that end up being extracted close to half of them will end up with an implant in that newly edentulous area. Pretty much my style of case presentation to the patient is as follows "Mr X, your tooth has an infected nerve which we have to deal with by either having a root canal and a crown doen to your tooth or it has to be removed. The x-ray shows that the bone levels around your tooth are very good, so if you choose to save your tooth via the root canal and crown it has a very good long term prognosis. Even with insurance, your out of pocket expense will likely be around $1000 or more, I'll have the front desk get the exact insurance estimate number for you. Don't panic about this, we'll get you set on on a plan where you can chip away at that number in an amount and timeframe that works for you"

Many folks will accept and have the tx paid off in 6 months tops, some are on what I call the 5 year plan, but they faithfully bring their $25 a month. I've found that the "hard sell" where you hit the patient with "It will be $2000 for that root canal and crown, you'll owe 1/2 right now before we start and the second half in about a month before we cement the crown" tactic led to alot more extractions. The ability to picture yourself in the chair, listening to what your saying and how it affects your patient can greatly affect how you present your treatment plans to patients, That and has been said, don't sign up with crappy insurance plans!


Dont you find it quite the headache bankrolling some of your patients? I always thought that was a big no-no (use care credit like companies) and your AR can tumble out of control.
 
Dont you find it quite the headache bankrolling some of your patients? I always thought that was a big no-no (use care credit like companies) and your AR can tumble out of control.

Most of the time its not a big deal, since in the big scheme of things, the collection rate at my office last year was 98.2%(when adjusted for ins. plan write offs). The bigger things that my partner and I look at closely are a) our accounts receivable - ours runs generally within a couple percent of 2 months production instead of the accepted classical practice management guru desired under 1 months production for the AR and b) before we extend the internal financing offer to a patient we look at them and try and make an assessment of their payment risk, if we feel that they're going to be a significant risk, then we won't finance them internally, but offer payment options of either Care Credit, etc or something like 1/2 down half on the final day, or 1/3rd down, 1/3 mid way through the case, 1/3 on the completion if if it's going to be a long case.

I'm fortunate enough where I practice to have a group of patients who might not have the highest average incomes, but really take their bills seriously, and well over a third of the people we offer to bank roll through the office, will on the 1st day of the month personally deliver their payments to the office. Yes, my partner and I do get burned from time to time, but in general the amount of new production that we end up getting from word of mouth referrals from these patients that we bank roll far exceeds what we end up having to eventually write off as uncollectable. It's not a model that will work for every office, but through trial and error, we've found that it works in my area/practice,
 
Regarding salary, I have always had a question about the numbers being kicked around. The average salary of $188k from the ADA is a pre-tax average is it not(gross)? Also, what is the rate of tax at this bracket?
 
well over a third of the people we offer to bank roll through the office, will on the 1st day of the month personally deliver their payments to the office.


It sounds like this method works in your office, but the only problem I see, aside from patients who may not make timely scheduled payments in full, is the amount of staff hours that have to be devoted to billing and contacting delinquent patient accounts each month. With a company like Care Credit, their staff is worried about billing patients who pay over time, not mine. For me, it can reduce the number of hours I need my front desk to work each month, and my front desk staff can spend more time helping patients decipher their insurance benefits, scheduling dental appointments and addressing patient questions in general. We use to have a similiar approach to yours in our office, but now find that Care Credit works best for us when any financing is taking place.
 
What exactly is a PPO and HMO...sorry for the newbie question.
Generally speaking, a PPO(preferred provider organization) is a plan that enrolls dentists who are willing to accept less than UCR(usual customary and reasonable) fees. The problem is that if you actually get UCR tables for your area you may see (as in my case) that the PPO plans idea of UCR is 20% lower than actual UCR for the area.
 
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