OMFS salary disparities

[Eagles123456]

Hi all,

I think we can all agree that OMFS typically has the highest pay in dental med. I always assumed the salary was at least 300k+, but with a Google search, the average salary is around 200k? It definitely isn’t a substantial increase (considering 4+ more years of residency) from the salary of a general dentist of ~150k from US News that also reports.

If anyone has friends or colleagues, or are an oral surgeon themselves could give some insight, that would be very helpful!

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[doktorinprogres]

76 ppl responded to the most recent ADA survey and reported a median 375,000. But you hit on an observation that is absolutely true. They aren't really doing an extra 4-6 years of strenuous residency just for the extra pay. A business minded general practitioner can come out ahead and by a significant amount when you consider the opportunity costs of those years. Of course a business minded oral surgeon would have a very high net income as well.

 

[ToothJockey]

The BLS surveys are pretty BS. There’s no way the average OS makes 200k, when you have GP associates hitting that mark 5 yrs out of school.

That being said all specialties make pretty good dough from what I’ve seen. You might as well pick what you like, because then you will be motivated to be top percentile at your job. A top percentile GP makes more than an unenthusiastic, average, unmotivated OS


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[Screwtape]

$200k average for OMS is simply incorrect. When I was rotating with OS residents their first year associate offers were mostly in the guaranteed salary range of $200-300k + production bonuses + other benefits. Once partner/owner with a solid schedule/referral base it’s fairly easy for an OS to be in the $400-600 range. Beyond $600 is even doable but they are working hard for it or the only OS in the region. I know a solo OS in a big city working 6 days a week and he averages in the $800-900k range.
These are mostly Midwest numbers as that is where I trained and live. Numbers could differ in other areas of the country but not hugely.

 

[tallnlanky]

I think 200-300k is about what academic, military, and pure hospital oral and maxillofacial surgeons earn.

Are there production bonuses on top of that base salary?

 

[New_Vegas]

They aren't really doing an extra 4-6 years of strenuous residency just for the extra pay.

This isn't really true. One of my good friends in dental school now is going to apply to oral surgery. Why? His number one reason is because it pays better. I bet he's not alone in this either.

 

[Cold Front]

A good friend of mine is an oral surgeon, and he recently opened a new solo practice in Colorado. He told me it’s not difficult for an OS solo office to gross $1.2-1.5M a year, with 40% overhead. Which means $700-900k/year is doable in the right market, probably more in rural areas.

I know busier oral surgeons - who bounce between corporate offices, and take home $2-3M a year. But they get up 3am every morning and commute 1-2 hours to each of the offices they help.


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[ToothJockey]

Weird thing I've noticed is that OMFS is the only field of dentistry where corporate typically pays higher than private practice.

GPs, Orthos, Perios, Endos etc. all make more in private practice as compared to being a corp associate, but for some reason OS seems to be an exception (based on what I've read online) Any idea why?

2-3 million sounds crazy, if you're paid 45% that means you're producing 5 million + worth of dentistry. Are these surgeons working 80 hrs a week or something?

 

[AONLINE]

2-3 million sounds crazy, if you're paid 45% that means you're producing 5 million + worth of dentistry. Are these surgeons working 80 hrs a week or something?

In medicine it’s not uncommon for surgeons to work 80 hrs/week in hospitals, but they don’t earn 2-3 millions. So OMFS must be one of the highest paying professionals among surgeons?

 

[Contach]

I recently started working as a OMFS.
I work at a hospital part-time and a private practice part-time.

The offer at my hospital in NYC was $235k / year for 5 days / week, and we have residents who work with us. And there is some bonus depending on how much the clinic produces. A previous attending made about $400k one year when the clinic was busy, but last year no one came close to that. With that in mind, I don't do this job for the money - I do it because it is fun and we see some cool stuff, and get to interact with residents. And I don't have to bust my ass every day like when in private practice. But taking call is apart of the gig - but this is how you get good cases to operate on, and rarely do we operate in the middle of the night. Sometimes an OR case will start late in the afternoon and roll into the early evening - so far it has been worth it. When I was applying for this job - they told me that I'll be take a pay cut, and seemed even a bit embarrassed to tell me that this was the offer. At the end of the day, it is more than adequate to live off of, even in NYC. But if you have lots of loans that have been accumulating interest, maybe this deal doesn't seem so good.
In addition to this, I know that NYC is among the lowest paying areas in the USA for OMFS. So i expect attendings elsewhere to make more. Also, in private practice, everyone knows you make more... When I was interviewing around NYC, most private practices were offering 5 - 5.5 days / week, and offering 250-300k + some bonus. In other areas of the country, once again, I'm sure the deals are better. And remember, these are the offers for a recent grad...
I never understood why people are so shy about talking about this stuff, especially on-line.

 

[Cold Front]

I never understood why people are so shy about talking about this stuff, especially on-line.

Some of us do.



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[ToothJockey]

I never understood why people are so shy about talking about this stuff, especially on-line.

Physicians talk about income expectations a lot. They don't want anyone taking lowball offers because it reduces everyones income in the long run. They also have tons of resources like MGMA/AMGA so it's tough for a physician to get underpaid. However nothing like that exists in dentistry so corps/owners can easily take advantage of unsuspecting dentists, make you produce $$$$ for them, while they only pay you $. I remember there was a thread on SDN where a dentist was working for $300 a day, most people thought it was all gucci, there was only 1 dude who questioned it...I mean, c'mon, even hygeinists make more than that. That kinda stuff won't fly on a physician forum

 

[P7898]

In medicine it’s not uncommon for surgeons to work 80 hrs/week in hospitals, but they don’t earn 2-3 millions. So OMFS must be one of the highest paying professionals among surgeons?

Yes. Business model. Wisdom teeth = 15 mins (surgeons can do this) w/IV sedation = $2500 fee for a set of 4. Implant placement w/IV sedation = 10 mins $2,000 - $2,500.

But then again - a GP can do this. The issue is that insurance reimburses higher for the wisdom teeth than a GP and it will take longer for the GP on average. GP can have the same fees as implant and cherry pick the straight forward guided slam dunk cases while doing CEREC and Invisalign all day yum.

 

[P7898]

$200k average for OMS is simply incorrect. When I was rotating with OS residents their first year associate offers were mostly in the guaranteed salary range of $200-300k + production bonuses + other benefits. Once partner/owner with a solid schedule/referral base it’s fairly easy for an OS to be in the $400-600 range. Beyond $600 is even doable but they are working hard for it or the only OS in the region. I know a solo OS in a big city working 6 days a week and he averages in the $800-900k range.
These are mostly Midwest numbers as that is where I trained and live. Numbers could differ in other areas of the country but not hugely.

That is most likely $200k that they can find publicly which would be academic institutions I would venture to say.

 

[Contach]

Some of us do.



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Please explain

 

[yappy]

Physicians talk about income expectations a lot. They don't want anyone taking lowball offers because it reduces everyones income in the long run. They also have tons of resources like MGMA/AMGA so it's tough for a physician to get underpaid. However nothing like that exists in dentistry so corps/owners can easily take advantage of unsuspecting dentists, make you produce $$$$ for them, while they only pay you $. I remember there was a thread on SDN where a dentist was working for $300 a day, most people thought it was all gucci, there was only 1 dude who questioned it...I mean, c'mon, even hygeinists make more than that. That kinda stuff won't fly on a physician forum

This exactly. It really irks me how dysfunctional and unorganized dentistry is. Once you learn who the stakeholders are, and who benefits from imperfect information, you can see the situation for what it is. I think job hopping, ownership, or family in dentistry are the only ways to really learn what you're worth (may be less or more than you thought). The only problem is you may get fleeced along the way as you're finding that out.

 

[deleted913442]

A friend of mine got offers after his residency in the Twin Cities and all offers were around 280k coming out as an associate in private practice

 

[mmc12]

Physicians talk about income expectations a lot. They don't want anyone taking lowball offers because it reduces everyones income in the long run. They also have tons of resources like MGMA/AMGA so it's tough for a physician to get underpaid. However nothing like that exists in dentistry so corps/owners can easily take advantage of unsuspecting dentists, make you produce $$$$ for them, while they only pay you $. I remember there was a thread on SDN where a dentist was working for $300 a day, most people thought it was all gucci, there was only 1 dude who questioned it...I mean, c'mon, even hygeinists make more than that. That kinda stuff won't fly on a physician forum

THIS! Nowadays, physicians can expect to make at least 200K (even pediatricians or family medicine doctors first year out of residency). No way a physician work for 300 dollars a day!

 

[wannagiveup]

I recently started working as a OMFS.
I work at a hospital part-time and a private practice part-time.

The offer at my hospital in NYC was $235k / year for 5 days / week, and we have residents who work with us. And there is some bonus depending on how much the clinic produces. A previous attending made about $400k one year when the clinic was busy, but last year no one came close to that. With that in mind, I don't do this job for the money - I do it because it is fun and we see some cool stuff, and get to interact with residents. And I don't have to bust my ass every day like when in private practice. But taking call is apart of the gig - but this is how you get good cases to operate on, and rarely do we operate in the middle of the night. Sometimes an OR case will start late in the afternoon and roll into the early evening - so far it has been worth it. When I was applying for this job - they told me that I'll be take a pay cut, and seemed even a bit embarrassed to tell me that this was the offer. At the end of the day, it is more than adequate to live off of, even in NYC. But if you have lots of loans that have been accumulating interest, maybe this deal doesn't seem so good.
In addition to this, I know that NYC is among the lowest paying areas in the USA for OMFS. So i expect attendings elsewhere to make more. Also, in private practice, everyone knows you make more... When I was interviewing around NYC, most private practices were offering 5 - 5.5 days / week, and offering 250-300k + some bonus. In other areas of the country, once again, I'm sure the deals are better. And remember, these are the offers for a recent grad...
I never understood why people are so shy about talking about this stuff, especially on-line.

What does a corporate office offer typically look like for a new grad oral surgeon around NYC areas? When corporate office peds are getting paid 200k+ after doing only two years of paid residency, surely OMFS are getting paid double that amount in corporate chains?

 

[deleted972255]

What does a corporate office offer typically look like for a new grad oral surgeon around NYC areas? When corporate office peds are getting paid 200k+ after doing only two years of paid residency, surely OMFS are getting paid double that amount in corporate chains?

You make a lot in corporate but end up selling your soul. They make you do unethical things

 

[Cold Front]

Please explain

I meant some of us “are not shy” talking about our worlds. The #1 problem in dentistry is that dentists are not cohesive and address (and act on) issues that face the profession collectively. We are bunch of islands and most think what effects others doesn’t affect them.


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[Lankers]

This is a little old, but I have been doing some research and just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly. Is 50% profit margin average for OS?

A good friend of mine is an oral surgeon, and he recently opened a new solo practice in Colorado. He told me it’s not difficult for an OS solo office to gross $1.2-1.5M a year, with 40% overhead. Which means $700-900k/year is doable in the right market, probably more in rural areas.

I know busier oral surgeons - who bounce between corporate offices, and take home $2-3M a year. But they get up 3am every morning and commute 1-2 hours to each of the offices they help.


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Is the 40% number after you have paid off some outstanding practice debt? Or is 40-50% overhead the typical ball park?
Also, is the 1.2-1.5M a year on the lower side? For some reason i recall an OS telling me typically you can produce twice the amount of a general dentist.

 

[LFA20]

Hi all,

I think we can all agree that OMFS typically has the highest pay in dental med. I always assumed the salary was at least 300k+, but with a Google search, the average salary is around 200k? It definitely isn’t a substantial increase (considering 4+ more years of residency) from the salary of a general dentist of ~150k from US News that also reports.

If anyone has friends or colleagues, or are an oral surgeon themselves could give some insight, that would be very helpful!

My friend who just graduated residency said starting is about 180k-200k

 

[Lankers]

My friend who just graduated residency said starting is about 180k-200k

Is he a military OMFS ?

 

[LFA20]

Is he a military OMFS ?

He is but he was talking about his civilian friends

 

[Lankers]

He is but he was talking about his civilian friends

That can’t be normal for a civilian OMFS to make that much(mean way to low). You can do that first year out of dental school if you are lucky/hustled.

 

[DocMon16]

My friend who just graduated residency said starting is about 180k-200k

He's getting ripped off...

 

[Deep Impact]

What you hear and reality can be very different. I’ve been at this for a while now, going on 10 years after residency. Crazy thing is the median salary hasn’t changed much. Insurance has a lot to do with that. Also, you have to realize there are more factors than just being an oral surgeon. I have GP friends who are killing it as owners and entrepreneurs. They were making money while I was training and a few are way better off than I am. And the opposite is also true. I’ve had friends go bankrupt because they are not that personable and are not good clinicians. And really...only thing being an oral surgeon guarantees is certain basic income level as an associate and most make about $250-280k which seems to be the common associate contract offer these days. By no means, it trumps other specialists including GPs. Just my opinion. Maybe the competition isn’t as fierce for specialists. Corporate practices could offer a bit more for certain OS but...you earn every penny there. No corporation is there to throw money your way if you aren’t hustling and working your ass off. Either way, some variables to consider:

1. Your competence as clinician and being an ambassador for the practice
-if you’re slow, mean or can’t play well with referrals, you honestly won’t do as well as an affable OS who goes out to schmooze and kiss the referral’s behind with the best of them.

2. Market saturation
-you’re gonna have to butter up and take it up your rear much more in places like SoCal and NYC metro area.
-your gift baskets better be amazing if you are trying to sway someone to change referral patterns

3. Business acumen
-just like any other small business. If you run a tight ship and you are good with money, you’re going be ok! Lol.
-masters of this seem to use the associates to make money for them by stringing them along for years for cheap labor, then recycle and repeat the process! It’s awesome. (Sarcasm, not being serious but this happens way too often)

4. Insurance and coding
-it’s a complicated world out there with insurance companies denying everything. Unless your practice is in some Bourgeoisie neighborhood or you cater to the right crowd with cash. Or just stick them with a fat bill after.

5. Careful expansion of the empire you created
-gobble gobble and hire more helpers to do the work and make even more money for you. I guess this is more of 3.

My take. You don’t have to agree with me.
Oh and please don’t pick OMFS just for money. You’ll be miserable. Pick a specialty you like or stay happy as a GP! I really think if you have the drive and desire, you can kill it regardless of the specialty as long as you’re good at what you do and take good care of people.

 

[Cold Front]

Cold front is on target with his numbers. Forget the military numbers, that is a false market.

In dentistry you eat what you kill. Rule #1 is you have to go where you can be busy with decent fees. Once that's in order, you have to focus on how much of the pie you are getting. You can potentially increase this via ownership.

As in any field of dentistry I'm sure there is a large spread. I've only seen the books opened on GP and endo practices. For well run practices the numbers can be much higher than some would believe possible. I expect OMS is the same way. If you want to make a lot of money, you will be able to.

Exactly. The top earners in every field of dentistry is doing something unique; staying busy, less saturated market, high productive procedures with higher fees and reimbursement, experience, etc. This applies to GP, Endo, OS, etc.

I run a very busy hygiene offices. 4 hygienists, 2 docs... a lot of Pedo patients, we see about 100-120 patients a day. Average patient production is just little north of $200. It took me a decade to get to this level of the game. I seriously considered about retiring couple of years ago, but I’m at a sweet spot in the profession now, where the practices systems are at the peak of their powers - I’ve reached my xanadu!

Success takes time. Just like pursuing to become a dentist at high school, it’s a long game.

 

[setdoc7]

GP's can make money if they play their cards right and don't get caught up in complex extravagant cases that in the end cost more than they end up making (Tan Man will back me up on this). I work 5 days a week for a total of 36 hours. Weekends off. +500k for years. Own two homes and my office.
Not bad for 36 hours. Could I have made more? Sure. I chose to limit the amount of stress in my life by not chasing dental dollars constantly and invested in other less intrusive business ventures, many of which panned out.
The take away... dentistry will provide a comfortable life. What you do with the money is up to you.

 

[luisfigo]

GP's can make money if they play their cards right and don't get caught up in complex extravagant cases that in the end cost more than they end up making (Tan Man will back me up on this). I work 5 days a week for a total of 36 hours. Weekends off. +500k for years. Own two homes and my office.
Not bad for 36 hours. Could I have made more? Sure. I chose to limit the amount of stress in my life by not chasing dental dollars constantly and invested in other less intrusive business ventures, many of which panned out.
The take away... dentistry will provide a comfortable life. What you do with the money is up to you.

Half a million dollars a year after 4 years of school is a pretty damn good ROI IMO.

 

[Cold Front]

Half a million dollars a year after 4 years of school is a pretty damn good ROI IMO.

I would argue that if you don’t have a serious plan for that level of debt, it would be very risky.

If you say to me, I’m going to graduate with $500k+ in student loans, I’m a shark and super motivated to learn business skills and have a solid long term plan. I would say - you have a lot of powder in your gun for support that level of debt easily, and beyond.

It’s also about the optics. A lot of people read the opinions of successful dentists on these forums, who happen to have multiple sources of income - and those readers may think those stories are synonymous with dentistry in general. Hopefully most readers understand that the profession and being successful financially are not intertwined, specially when you have high student loans.

 

[Bereno]

OMS in the greater Seattle area here. COVID kinda screwed my and my contract when I signed as an associate last year. I am just now recovering to pre-COVID levels. I currently make $260k on 4.5 days a week with no production bonus but some pretty good benefits. Each year my salary will increase by another $52k. I have complete control of my schedule and the practice has made it clear that they are not concerned with my production so I can make sure I have a pretty chill day if I want. I like to keep busy so I am slated to produce about 2-2.5 million this year of pre-adjusted production. Said another way, I am making this practice a lot of money haha. As for location, I had relatively limited options for associate positions because I wanted to come back home and be near my friends and family. Sure, I could have gone to another location and made a bit (a lot) more, but I am happy here.

As far as income potential, I plan on making over 1 million a year after about 5 or so years from now until "retirement". However, this will not be from my practice as an OMS alone though. I have a lot of plans for small businesses and real estate investing. The fact that I can generate an after tax cash flow of approx $400-500k+ each year pretty comfortably means that I have some amazing investment opportunities. I can utilize this to buy properties (commercial, single family, or multifamily), invest is small businesses, or even partner with other entrepreneurs as either a consultant or lender. Overall, the steady income of dental professionals really opens a lot of doors for those who want to be a bit more active with their cashflow.

 

[Cold Front]

OMS in the greater Seattle area here. COVID kinda screwed my and my contract when I signed as an associate last year. I am just now recovering to pre-COVID levels. I currently make $260k on 4.5 days a week with no production bonus but some pretty good benefits. Each year my salary will increase by another $52k. I have complete control of my schedule and the practice has made it clear that they are not concerned with my production so I can make sure I have a pretty chill day if I want. I like to keep busy so I am slated to produce about 2-2.5 million this year of pre-adjusted production. Said another way, I am making this practice a lot of money haha. As for location, I had relatively limited options for associate positions because I wanted to come back home and be near my friends and family. Sure, I could have gone to another location and made a bit (a lot) more, but I am happy here.

As far as income potential, I plan on making over 1 million a year after about 5 or so years from now until "retirement". However, this will not be from my practice as an OMS alone though. I have a lot of plans for small businesses and real estate investing. The fact that I can generate an after tax cash flow of approx $400-500k+ each year pretty comfortably means that I have some amazing investment opportunities. I can utilize this to buy properties (commercial, single family, or multifamily), invest is small businesses, or even partner with other entrepreneurs as either a consultant or lender. Overall, the steady income of dental professionals really opens a lot of doors for those who want to be a bit more active with their cashflow.

Nice! This post is a perfect example of a dentist/specialist who understands their financial potential.

It’s also important to understand and appreciate - that even an oral surgeon has to wait additional years after a very long training to hit his/her apex financially. It also helps to make good income from something you really enjoy doing. I have a couple of oral surgeon friends who own their own practices, and most make $1M+ a year. It’s a cash cow gig, but like you said - making that level of income doesn’t happen by without its own wheels.

 

[luisfigo]

I would argue that if you don’t have a serious plan for that level of debt, it would be very risky.

If you say to me, I’m going to graduate with $500k+ in student loans, I’m a shark and super motivated to learn business skills and have a solid long term plan. I would say - you have a lot of powder in your gun for support that level of debt easily, and beyond.

It’s also about the optics. A lot of people read the opinions of successful dentists on these forums, who happen to have multiple sources of income - and those readers may think those stories are synonymous with dentistry in general. Hopefully most readers understand that the profession and being successful financially are not intertwined, specially when you have high student loans.

No, I mean $500k in income a year after only 4 years of dental school and no residency is a pretty good ROI. $500k debt is not worth it unless you came out of residency with that amount of debt because it's easier to manage with a higher income potential.

 

[bergus95]

OMS in the greater Seattle area here. COVID kinda screwed my and my contract when I signed as an associate last year. I am just now recovering to pre-COVID levels. I currently make $260k on 4.5 days a week with no production bonus but some pretty good benefits. Each year my salary will increase by another $52k. I have complete control of my schedule and the practice has made it clear that they are not concerned with my production so I can make sure I have a pretty chill day if I want. I like to keep busy so I am slated to produce about 2-2.5 million this year of pre-adjusted production. Said another way, I am making this practice a lot of money haha. As for location, I had relatively limited options for associate positions because I wanted to come back home and be near my friends and family. Sure, I could have gone to another location and made a bit (a lot) more, but I am happy here.

As far as income potential, I plan on making over 1 million a year after about 5 or so years from now until "retirement". However, this will not be from my practice as an OMS alone though. I have a lot of plans for small businesses and real estate investing. The fact that I can generate an after tax cash flow of approx $400-500k+ each year pretty comfortably means that I have some amazing investment opportunities. I can utilize this to buy properties (commercial, single family, or multifamily), invest is small businesses, or even partner with other entrepreneurs as either a consultant or lender. Overall, the steady income of dental professionals really opens a lot of doors for those who want to be a bit more active with their cashflow.

Thank you for this transparency Bereno,
I think transparency like this only strengthens future practitioners negotiations.
I am wondering if the 52k a year increases are guaranteed. Also why did you not ask to work off partial production? Even a 25% production which would have been incredibly low for a specialist would have netted you a far greater income. Or was that not an option given covid? Are there any plans for a partnership? Was that also negotiated.

Regardless kudos to you. Happy for you.

 

[Bereno]

Nice! This post is a perfect example of a dentist/specialist who understands their financial potential.

It’s also important to understand and appreciate - that even an oral surgeon has to wait additional years after a very long training to hit his/her apex financially. It also helps to make good income from something you really enjoy doing. I have a couple of oral surgeon friends who own their own practices, and most make $1M+ a year. It’s a cash cow gig, but like you said - making that level of income doesn’t happen by without its own wheels.

Just like anything, a job/profession is a tool that is only as good as the person using that tool. With a little guidance and practice, our income streams can be leveraged to great potential.

Thank you for this transparency Bereno,
I think transparency like this only strengthens future practitioners negotiations.
I am wondering if the 52k a year increases are guaranteed. Also why did you not ask to work off partial production? Even a 25% production which would have been incredibly low for a specialist would have netted you a far greater income. Or was that not an option given covid? Are there any plans for a partnership? Was that also negotiated.

Regardless kudos to you. Happy for you.

I happen to know the owners of this practice personally. That said, I am a firm believer that you don't get what you don't ask for, so I negotiated heavily with them. I wasn't pushy by any means, but I did open the discussion about compensation via production. Simply put, it was just a difficult discussion to have in the peak of COVID so we were able to make alternate concessions/benefits. The 52k increase per year is contractual. Partnership is in the works and the terms will obviously be negotiated haha.

 

[bergus95]

Just like anything, a job/profession is a tool that is only as good as the person using that tool. With a little guidance and practice, our income streams can be leveraged to great potential.



I happen to know the owners of this practice personally. That said, I am a firm believer that you don't get what you don't ask for, so I negotiated heavily with them. I wasn't pushy by any means, but I did open the discussion about compensation via production. Simply put, it was just a difficult discussion to have in the peak of COVID so we were able to make alternate concessions/benefits. The 52k increase per year is contractual. Partnership is in the works and the terms will obviously be negotiated haha.

Proud of you

 

[Splenda88]

Physicians talk about income expectations a lot. They don't want anyone taking lowball offers because it reduces everyones income in the long run. They also have tons of resources like MGMA/AMGA so it's tough for a physician to get underpaid. However nothing like that exists in dentistry so corps/owners can easily take advantage of unsuspecting dentists, make you produce $$$$ for them, while they only pay you $. I remember there was a thread on SDN where a dentist was working for $300 a day, most people thought it was all gucci, there was only 1 dude who questioned it...I mean, c'mon, even hygeinists make more than that. That kinda stuff won't fly on a physician forum

We do, but physicians tend not to disclose their actual salary since talking about salary is somewhat a taboo in the US.

I am kind of shocked that starting salary for dentists is so low, especially OMFS. I thought OMFS dentists were swimming in $$$. Isn't OMFS a 4-6 yrs surgical residency? The good thing about dentistry is that your salary potential for the most part is higher than medicine. Based on this thread, it appears that GP salary potential can be as high as 500k. As an internist (hospitalist), I am stuck at 300-400k/yr unless I work > 17 days/month or open my own practice.

 

[bergus95]

I am kind of shocked that starting salary for dentists is so low, especially OMFS. I thought OMFS dentists were swimming in $$$. Isn't OMFS a 4-6 yrs surgical residency? The good thing about dentistry is that your salary potential for the most part is higher than medicine. Based on this thread, it appears that GP salary potential can be as high as 500k. As an internist (hospitalist), I am stuck at 300-400k/yr unless I work > 17 days/month or open my own practice.

In private practice you eat what you kill, this is true across all specialties. COVID threw a curveball for a lot of surgeons and their elective procedures last year.

Depending on location, population density, and practice setup - omfs starting salaries can range from the low 200’s in places like SoCal to well over 1 million in a corporate setup. Just hearsay though.

 

[odontogenesis]

Any ideas about salaries for academic OMS (and also H&N micro recon surgeons) versus private practice OMS?

 

[Ivy.ch]

Any ideas about salaries for academic OMS (and also H&N micro recon surgeons) versus private practice OMS?

Lower

 

[odontogenesis]

Numbers

 

[PhansterZ]

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[SilkyJ]

Despite all the talk, it’s very simple.

AVERAGE first year guarantee is 200-300k, depending on the market (with production bonuses, extras, blah blah blah). There will be outliers on this.

After that, it depends entirely on your practice setting (corporate/private/academic), hours worked, desire to cram your schedule, and your procedure and payer mix.

I know people doing big surgery 5 days a week making 350k. I know people doing 4-5 sets of wisdom teeth, working 4 days a week, and making 700k. I know people hustling that clear 1m every year. It varies widely, but I don’t know a single OMFS making less than 300k after their first year of practice unless they’re in a purely academic job with no “faculty practice” time.

 

[D1Bound]

Despite all the talk, it’s very simple.

AVERAGE first year guarantee is 200-300k, depending on the market (with production bonuses, extras, blah blah blah). There will be outliers on this.

After that, it depends entirely on your practice setting (corporate/private/academic), hours worked, desire to cram your schedule, and your procedure and payer mix.

I know people doing big surgery 5 days a week making 350k. I know people doing 4-5 sets of wisdom teeth, working 4 days a week, and making 700k. I know people hustling that clear 1m every year. It varies widely, but I don’t know a single OMFS making less than 300k after their first year of practice unless they’re in a purely academic job with no “faculty practice” time.

If I was a new grad OMS there is no way in .......... I would accept a 200k salary after over a decade of being a poor student jumping hoops.

 

[702]

Despite all the talk, it’s very simple.

AVERAGE first year guarantee is 200-300k, depending on the market (with production bonuses, extras, blah blah blah). There will be outliers on this.

After that, it depends entirely on your practice setting (corporate/private/academic), hours worked, desire to cram your schedule, and your procedure and payer mix.

I know people doing big surgery 5 days a week making 350k. I know people doing 4-5 sets of wisdom teeth, working 4 days a week, and making 700k. I know people hustling that clear 1m every year. It varies widely, but I don’t know a single OMFS making less than 300k after their first year of practice unless they’re in a purely academic job with no “faculty practice” time.

What does hustling mean?

 

[ShortShortsDad]

All these numbers being thrown out are silly low.

Military pay right after residency will be around $165k, more of you have been in longer or live in a HCOL area.

I moonlight one day a week working less than six hours in a poorer area taking crappy insurances. A bad day is $3k, an average day is $4k and good is over $5k. An average day could look like 6 sedations and a couple locals or a few sedations, few locals and an implant. A busy day will be a dozen sedation thirds. This is working now where near my potential although if I was working private every day this would be a smooth pace, definitely not overworked but enough to not be bored.

A couple buddies work part time at Clear Choice and an average daily take home is $8k.

Most surgeons who own have 40-55% overhead. A good associate offer is 40% production, average would be 40% collections. Corporate will be avg 32% but will be fed cases to be more busy and overall make more.

That one dude making like 10% in Seattle is getting criminally ****ed, blows my mind how badly he’s getting paid.

 

[Bereno]

For what its worth, I am that one dude in Seattle that was getting criminally ****ed as noted by the previous post. As an update, I ended up quitting that job back in August of 2022 and am now working for ClearChoice. Go Figure. I am making around 60K a month on about 3.5 days a week. I am not all that fast, but the more of these I do, the more efficient and proficient I become. I usually do about two arches a day, but it looks as though I will be doing 3 arches a day more frequently now. Just last week I did 4 arches in a day. All said and done, I should be looking at over $700k this year considering that I made $247k in the first four months already and still have a lot of room to improve.

I still plan on investing heavily and using this income stream to generate future wealth. That said, it is hard not to fall into lifestyle creep haha. That's a topic for another day though.

 

[702]

For what its worth, I am that one dude in Seattle that was getting criminally ****ed as noted by the previous post. As an update, I ended up quitting that job back in August of 2022 and am now working for ClearChoice. Go Figure. I am making around 60K a month on about 3.5 days a week. I am not all that fast, but the more of these I do, the more efficient and proficient I become. I usually do about two arches a day, but it looks as though I will be doing 3 arches a day more frequently now. Just last week I did 4 arches in a day. All said and done, I should be looking at over $700k this year considering that I made $247k in the first four months already and still have a lot of room to improve.

I still plan on investing heavily and using this income stream to generate future wealth. That said, it is hard not to fall into lifestyle creep haha. That's a topic for another day though.

What implant system are you using?