Dissapointing residency evals, advice for improving

[deleted480308]

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Nah. Not necessarily. You can fake it the entire time and everyone will love you. But there are some people who genuinely care about their colleagues puppies and **** and ask about that crap at work.

Some of us aren’t allowed the luxury of “flipping out” occasionally without potentially losing our residency slots.
Wrong sex, wrong race. That’s the reality.

I’m going to disagree with the premise that a program is more likely to unjustly fire a woman/minority

 

[dchz]

Nah. Not necessarily. You can fake it the entire time and everyone will love you. But there are some people who genuinely care about their colleagues puppies and **** and ask about that crap at work.

Some of us aren’t allowed the luxury of “flipping out” occasionally without potentially losing our residency slots.
Wrong sex, wrong race. That’s the reality.

I’m going to disagree with the premise that a program is more likely to unjustly fire a woman/minority

Most residencies no way in hell would anyone even go there. But from the stories coming from Choco's residency I do believe it.

 

[deleted480308]

Most residencies no way in hell would anyone even go there. But from the stories coming from Choco's residency I do believe it.

I’m not trying to deny the existence of outliers, but it’s by no means normally that way. If choco was trying to reference only one place and not imply some nationwide tendency then I withdraw my disagreement and apologize if I was unclear

 

[Iso4ane]

Everyone has their own idiosyncrasies, (and there is usually a reason for it) if people just paid attention it’s not hard to figure a lot of them out. It not like we developed our style on own own. I’m sure our style comes from our experience and picking/choosing what we like from our attendings styles.

 

[chocomorsel]

Most residencies no way in hell would anyone even go there. But from the stories coming from Choco's residency I do believe it.

Some residencies are stuck in their old school “good old boys club” way.

I totally had a much better experience in fellowship in the Deep South. Never experienced any negativity. Guess it helped that there were quite a few more of us minority physicians. And the town is full of black folks.

One thing I learned the hard way in residency, scope out the docs/residents and go to a place where there quite a few are others like you. My ignorance of the was not bliss.

 

[chocomorsel]

I’m going to disagree with the premise that a program is more likely to unjustly fire a woman/minority

You can disagree with whatever you want to disagree with. That’s your prerogative.

But don’t try to discount what plenty of minorities and women have gone through in multiple different residencies just cause you’ve never experienced it and are ignorant to it.

Because racism and sexism is not an issue in your world. I would like to live in that world and would have really loved to live there circa 2010/2011.

 

[deleted480308]

You can disagree with whatever you want to disagree with. That’s your prerogative.

But don’t try to discount what plenty of minorities and women have gone through in multiple different residencies just cause you’ve never experienced it and are ignorant to it.

Because racism and sexism is not an issue in your world. I would like to live in that world and would have really loved to live there circa 2010/2011.

we're in the same world and women/URM are preferentially recruited on avg in medicine

I'm sorry you were treated poorly but a doctor being railroaded for those reasons isn't common. I'm not denying your experience, I'm questioning it's broad applicability. We may have to agree to disagree

 

[chocomorsel]

we're in the same world and women/URM are preferentially recruited on avg in medicine

I'm sorry you were treated poorly but a doctor being railroaded for those reasons isn't common. I'm not denying your experience, I'm questioning it's broad applicability. We may have to agree to disagree

Being preferentially recruited and actually being in a supportive environment where there is success without a lot of unnecessary bull**** are not the same thing. Unnecessary bull**** that many Caucasian males don't seem to receive or notice. And some then accuse us of making things up.

Again, just because you are ignorant to these happenings, does not mean they don't exist. And I would venture to say it's broadly applicable in plenty of residencies. I don't have numbers, but I have lots of stories besides just mine.

But it's not like you and I have ever agreed on anything, so yeah, agree to disagree.

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

we're in the same world and women/URM are preferentially recruited on avg in medicine

I'm sorry you were treated poorly but a doctor being railroaded for those reasons isn't common. I'm not denying your experience, I'm questioning it's broad applicability. We may have to agree to disagree

Perhaps minorities are not fired unjustly, but we certainly have to watch the way we act and talk in a way that I don’t think people in the majority have to or even have to be cognizant of. If your department leadership is predominantly elderly white men, you think the experience of a gay man, fat woman, black person, someone with tattoos is going to be the same as a young white man? It also goes the other way. If you are the only white man in a department run by people of color, you may feel scrutinized in a way the majority won’t.

Feel free to ask how many women here have been called nurse and how many black doctors have been asked to clean up the place because they were thought to be janitorial staff and then compare how many times that has happened to you and think what impact these daily occurrences may have on how we perceive ourself in the work place.

Just my two cents. I have been very lucky to work in a place with a lot of diversity so I don’t feel quite as “other” as I did in residency (no complaints, I loved my residency). Also, pre-emptively, I will say I’m not denying white men have challenges. I’ll also add in America is the best country ever. Hopefully now no one can accuse me of reverse racism and to go back to “my country” (whatever that means for those of us born here...)

 

[abolt18]

Perhaps minorities are not fired unjustly, but we certainly have to watch the way we act and talk in a way that I don’t think people in the majority have to or even have to be cognizant of. If your department leadership is predominantly elderly white men, you think the experience of a gay man, fat woman, black person, someone with tattoos is going to be the same as a young white man? It also goes the other way. If you are the only white man in a department run by people of color, you may feel scrutinized in a way the majority won’t.

Feel free to ask how many women here have been called nurse and how many black doctors have been asked to clean up the place because they were thought to be janitorial staff and then compare how many times that has happened to you and think what impact these daily occurrences may have on how we perceive ourself in the work place.

Just my two cents. I have been very lucky to work in a place with a lot of diversity so I don’t feel quite as “other” as I did in residency (no complaints, I loved my residency). Also, pre-emptively, I will say I’m not denying white men have challenges. I’ll also add in America is the best country ever. Hopefully now no one can accuse me of reverse racism and to go back to “my country” (whatever that means for those of us born here...)

I always appreciate this sort of input because as a Caucasian male I have definitely never experienced the things you describe. I am grateful for that but I acknowledge that others don't have the same luxury.

I was just talking with a coresident about how hard our program struggles to recruit minorities and women. Our residents are mostly white and only about 20% of all our residents are women. I think this is an obvious deterrent to women and minorities from coming here.

I would be hesitant to go to a program if I was going to be the only dude in my class (though I honestly don't think I'd have a problem being the only white guy). I understand people's desire to be with others like themselves - I have this desire myself, though from my perspective I think this is a great program to be at as a woman because a lot of our departmental leadership (including the new PD) is made up of women who totally rock, our intern year is quite nice, most of the women have had children and been able to take the time off that they needed without recourse (based on conversations I've had with them), those wishing to pursue leadership or fellowship have had no problem doing so.

Thanks for adding your perspective in a meaningful way that helps others to grow as well.

 

[deleted480308]

Perhaps minorities are not fired unjustly, but we certainly have to watch the way we act and talk in a way that I don’t think people in the majority have to or even have to be cognizant of. If your department leadership is predominantly elderly white men, you think the experience of a gay man, fat woman, black person, someone with tattoos is going to be the same as a young white man? It also goes the other way. If you are the only white man in a department run by people of color, you may feel scrutinized in a way the majority won’t.

Feel free to ask how many women here have been called nurse and how many black doctors have been asked to clean up the place because they were thought to be janitorial staff and then compare how many times that has happened to you and think what impact these daily occurrences may have on how we perceive ourself in the work place.

Just my two cents. I have been very lucky to work in a place with a lot of diversity so I don’t feel quite as “other” as I did in residency (no complaints, I loved my residency). Also, pre-emptively, I will say I’m not denying white men have challenges. I’ll also add in America is the best country ever. Hopefully now no one can accuse me of reverse racism and to go back to “my country” (whatever that means for those of us born here...)

How one perceives themself based on patients not knowing their role is not the same as saying the faculty are mistreating someone. I think those are different issues though neither should be happening

 

[MoMoGesiologist]

How one perceives themself based on patients not knowing their role is not the same as saying the faculty are mistreating someone. I think those are different issues though neither should be happening

Doctors and nurses have assumed my black doctor coworker was the cleaning lady. It is not only patients. Plus I’ve heard it multiple times so I’m assuming it’s not a rare isolated occurrence (if any people of color want to chime in and say it’s rare for them to be mistaken for the help, please do). I’ve made wrong assumptions about people as well, unfortunately.

I am not saying faculty are mistreating based on race, I think that would be rare. I am trying to say people/faculty have preconceived notions of what is acceptable based on their culture and how they grew up and may put values on things someone of another race/culture may not even realize they are being judged on. A resident with a beard or tattoo or modern haircut, or a woman wearing a headscarf, or a flamboyant resident may be judged (can be subconscious) differently and get different evals compared to someone who fits in better even though the quality of work may be the same.

 

[chocomorsel]

How one perceives themself based on patients not knowing their role is not the same as saying the faculty are mistreating someone. I think those are different issues though neither should be happening

It's called Unconscious Bias. Read up on it. We all have it to some extent, but when the bias views you in a negative way, and you are the one without the power, it can affect you.
Been there, done that.

Again, please stop trying to discount something just because you don't understand it or it hasn't happened to you or people you know. It's happening, and we are not imagining it. At least someone on this board can accept that they don't see but can certainly that it happens.

 

[deleted480308]

It's called Unconscious Bias. Read up on it. We all have it to some extent, but when the bias views you in a negative way, and you are the one without the power, it can affect you.
Been there, done that.

Again, please stop trying to discount something just because you don't understand it or it hasn't happened to you or people you know. It's happening, and we are not imagining it. At least someone on this board can accept that they don't see but can certainly that it happens.

Again, stop putting words in mouth that I didn’t say.

 

[DM27]

I do disagree with the idea that in most institutions someone is more likely to be fired because they are a woman or under-represented minority. More likely to be passed up for a promotion? Sure. More likely to be paid less? Sure. However, I would argue they are as likely or maybe even less likely to be fired than a Caucasian male because it is a much easier wrongful termination lawsuit to wage when you can bring sexuality, race, or gender into the equation, and the PR fallout looks much worse. I am talking about physicians or high profile employees specifically in this context.

Regarding unconscious bias, I 100% agree and have witnessed this multiple times throughout my training and at work. I have seen dark-skinned physicians in scrubs in the OR (residents who are not known by staff yet) confused for the radiology tech with fluoro or the cleaning staff. I have seen women I work with assumed to be a nurse and the male crna assumed to be their "boss". As a caucasian male, patients will usually confuse me for the president of the hospital or their surgeon. The main thing it has taught me from a social perspective is I just never assume someone's role bc I have witnessed a lot of "high school rotators" turn out be the attending and a lot of "surgeons" turn out to be absconding patients.