Disturbing Accusations Against Abu Ghraib Docs

[Neuronix]

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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129496,00.html

 

[Homunculus]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129496,00.html

when we went through our "ethics training" during inprocessing we were presented with scenarios to discuss. one of them was if a detainee was brought to you, and you were told that he may have information (IED placement, future atack plans, etc) that would directly save american troops' lives. all you have to do is medically clear him for "interrogation". what do you do? another scenario was similar to the above, only this time they want you do draw up some normal saline as a bolus to inject into a peripheral IV-- the kicker is they have told the patient that the fluid you are injecting will kill him. what if you refuse to do anything, and an IED later explodes and kills 5 or 6 americans? needless to say it was an interesting discussion.

we have a unique dichotomy as military physicians. we have taken two oaths, one as an officer in the military and the other as a physician. sometimes the two don't jive.

--your friendly neighborhood pondering caveman

 

[militarymd]

Ever hear of the term "unlawful order"? The situations you cited would be examples of "unlawful orders"....not only do you not follow them....whoever gave the orders can and should be prosecuted.

Now whether we should interrogate sh:theads is another story. You just don't make doctors do jobs that doctors aren't supposed to do.....Have I said something similiar to that before???

 

[Homunculus]

Ever hear of the term "unlawful order"? The situations you cited would be examples of "unlawful orders"....not only do you not follow them....whoever gave the orders can and should be prosecuted.

Now whether we should interrogate sh:theads is another story. You just don't make doctors do jobs that doctors aren't supposed to do.....Have I said something similiar to that before???

i don't think it's unlawful to medically clear someone for interrogation. it is unlawful to knowingly let them be abused though.

either way it's a difficult situation to be put into.

--your friendly neighborhood gray area caveman

 

[Neuronix]

we have a unique dichotomy as military physicians. we have taken two oaths, one as an officer in the military and the other as a physician. sometimes the two don't jive.

I know that they told my HPSP friend at OBC that they were considered officers first and doctors second. I could not live with that myself.

 

[Homunculus]

I know that they told my HPSP friend at OBC that they were considered officers first and doctors second. I could not live with that myself.

at our ethics training class we were told sort of the opposite. under geneva conventions (not that the Iraqi's follow it, lol) to be afforded the protections as physicians we have to act accordingly, i.e. not doing "soldierly" things such as shooting at the bad guys. (which we *can* do, but only after being shot at ourselves).

--your friendly neighborhood not in the peace corps caveman

 

[militarymd]

i don't think it's unlawful to medically clear someone for interrogation. it is unlawful to knowingly let them be abused though.

either way it's a difficult situation to be put into.

--your friendly neighborhood gray area caveman

There is nothing unlawful or unethical about medically clearing someone for "fill in the blank" even if it is torture......all you're doing is saying that the patient does not have any medical issues that needs to be addressed.. Medical clearance is not participation in whatever activity that follows. So why is that a difficult situation?

Are you saying that if unethical soldiers are going to torture someone, then you won't treat the prisoners?

Faking a lethal injection is both.

 

[Homunculus]

There is nothing unlawful or unethical about medically clearing someone for "fill in the blank" even if it is torture......

actually we were told that if we knew torture was going on or could be going on with our "patients", we would be held accountable per the geneva convention-- hence the gray area.

-- your friendly neighborhood wish everyone followed geneva convention caveman

 

[carrigallen]

I will quote the following:

He cites evidence that doctors or medics falsified death certificates to cover up homicides, hid evidence of beatings and revived a prisoner so he could be further tortured.
....
In an editorial comment, The Lancet condemned the behavior of the doctors, saying that despite dual loyalties, they are doctors first and soldiers second.

I'm not sure how they can definitively prove that the doctors knew the abuse was going on though.