Disturbing trend

[LadyHalcyon]

I am working with adolescents more than I have in previous years and I'm very shocked about the frequency and severity of suicidal threats/attempts, cutting, eating disorders etc. More so, I am witnessing these behaviors occurring in elementary school. I have seen 5th graders experience pretty severe sexual harassment by their peers, a 12-year-old attempting to set fire to a school, a 10-year-old leaving class to cut herself in the bathroom and then return to class bleeding, and locally more than 3 elementary school students have committed suicide this year. Obviously adolescence is a difficult time in general, but I personally never saw this type of behavior when I was in elementary school. Even in middle school, it was never this extreme. Obviously I am biased, but it almost seems like being depressed, suicidal, and cutting are the norm for middle schoolers, rather than the exception. Although there are many contributing factors, I really think in 20 years we will have a clearer picture of the negative psychological impact technology and social media are having on individuals, especially children. This is basically the first generation raised with technology; I know many 3 and 4 year old children who know their way around an iPad better than my father. Coupled with the fact many parents weren't exposed to technology until they were teenagers, and AOL and the Nokia phone with the snake game is nothing like social media nowadays. How does this impact our childrens' social skills? What is this doing to their brain from a neurological standpoint? Does constant exposure to technology increase impulsivity? How big of a role does contagion play in cutting and suicide (e.g. 13 reasons why, children from other schools learning about students in their community who have committed suicide via social media)? Online bullying and exposure to devopmentally inappropriate material. These factors don't take into account things like poverty and racism, but any child can look at the comments section of a Facebook article if their parent's do not provide appropriate supervision. How does this impact Black, gay, trans youth?

I'm trying to determine if things really are getting worse or if it just feels like they are because I've had a rough month.

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[PsyDr]

If you look at the cdc data; suicide rates are not up in that age group as a trend.

If you listen to more recent publications like pediatrics: there is a mild near term elevation.

If you listen to the popular press: it’s an epidemic.


It’s kinda like if you look at school shooting rates; or violent crime rates.

 

[deleted656923]

If you look at the cdc data; suicide rates are not up in that age group as a trend.

If you listen to more recent publications like pediatrics: there is a mild near term elevation.

If you listen to the popular press: it’s an epidemic.


It’s kinda like if you look at school shooting rates; or violent crime rates.

If that’s the case, then @LadyHalcyon must be doing therapy in a rough part of town...

 

[GradStudent2020]

If you look at the cdc data; suicide rates are not up in that age group as a trend.

If you listen to more recent publications like pediatrics: there is a mild near term elevation.

If you listen to the popular press: it’s an epidemic.


It’s kinda like if you look at school shooting rates; or violent crime rates.

Aren’t school shootings way, way up?

@ladyhalycon, I’ve also seen self-harm in most adolescents that present for therapy in the last few years. It may be anecdotal, but rates do seem to be going up. I’ve heard first hand over and over from teens who *knew* someone that did it first, and one who was involved in an online forum about “safe and secret” ways to self-harm.

Have you seen the recent news about violent and sexual content being spliced into children’s shows? I heard about it in my office first. Or the Momo suicide challenge. I also heard from a parent who brought her son in after discovering someone on a popular children’s online game had talked him into taking his shirt off “for the game.” It’s really disturbing stuff, and I agree with you that there is cause for concern as technology shifts the way we interact with the world. Unfortunately, there is an entire social universe out there accessible to children, pre-teens, etc., that parents are not necessarily monitoring.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I definitely may be falling prey to the representative heuristic, and yes I do work with Medicaid and forensic populations so I am not seeing the "worried well." But I'm also seeing these trends in private schools. My colleague is facing similar issues with her children's school, and my daughter, who attends a small private school, was the one who saw her 10-year-old classmate cutting at school and making suicidal threats. I don't have anything other than somewhat sensationalized literature to support my claim, but I've been increasingly disturbed by what I've witnessed, both professionally and personally.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I have a 5th grade daughter and I had to block the chat feature on Roblox because she was getting inappropriate messages from strangers. Some of her classmates have Instagram accounts and post very sexualized pictures. They have also reported receiving messages from men. Roblox is a game for kids! I am very strict about rules pertaining to technology (she is only allowed to download apps approved for her agree group, no access to safari, I monitor her activity frequently, no social media) and yet still people find ways to get around the security settings on apps approved for elementary school children.

Aren’t school shootings way, way up?

@ladyhalycon, I’ve also seen self-harm in most adolescents that present for therapy in the last few years. It may be anecdotal, but rates do seem to be going up. I’ve heard first hand over and over from teens who *knew* someone that did it first, and one who was involved in an online forum about “safe and secret” ways to self-harm.

Have you seen the recent news about violent and sexual content being spliced into children’s shows? I heard about it in my office first. Or the Momo suicide challenge. I also heard from a parent who brought her son in after discovering someone on a popular children’s online game had talked him into taking his shirt off “for the game.” It’s really disturbing stuff, and I agree with you that there is cause for concern as technology shifts the way we interact with the world. Unfortunately, there is an entire social universe out there accessible to children, pre-teens, etc., that parents are not necessarily monitoring.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

https://pediatrics.aappublications....000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token

Edited to add the article summarizing the above study: https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/time/5279029/suicide-rates-rising-study


If you listen to more recent publications like pediatrics: there is a mild near term elevation.

If you listen to the popular press: it’s an epidemic.


It’s kinda like if you look at school shooting rates; or violent crime rates.[/QUOTE]

 

[PsyDr]

@GradStudent2020 school shootings are either way down or static. Like since the 1880s.

@JoePianist it could be a local effect. I don’t know.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

Suicide rates are increasing, especially in younger females. View attachment db330-h.pdf

 

[PsyDr]

Suicide rates are increasing, especially in younger females. View attachment 252369

For completed suicides:

It’s 3.7 per 100k in 1990 to 5.1 in 2015 for female teens. It’s up; but I don’t know if an extra 1.4 people is alarming.

For males, it’s 18.1 in 1990; now down to 14.2.

There have been lower rates in between those times. If you visualize the data, there is an almost sinusoidal quality to it.


For suicide attempts and ideation in healthcare contacts: the numbers are clearly way up. But you have to keep in mind that these numbers refer to reports to medical providers.

I have zero idea what this means. People could have less access to lethal means. People could have more but not great education about how to seek mental healthcare. People could be struggling more, but not actually suicidal. Could be an indication of parasiicidal behaviors showing either social acceptance or a pending epidemic of that personality disorder. Could be some social transmission of behaviors. Could be a million other things.


I do not think this is an epidemic of suicides.

I do understand how difficult it is to keep logical in the face of such awful suffering. But that’s what we are paid to do.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

For completed suicides:

It’s 3.7 per 100k in 1990 to 5.1 in 2015 for female teens. It’s up; but I don’t know if an extra 1.4 people is alarming.

For males, it’s 18.1 in 1990; now down to 14.2.

There have been lower rates in between those times. If you visualize the data, there is an almost sinusoidal quality to it.


For suicide attempts and ideation in healthcare contacts: the numbers are clearly way up. But you have to keep in mind that these numbers refer to reports to medical providers.

I have zero idea what this means. People could have less access to lethal means. People could have more but not great education about how to seek mental healthcare. People could be struggling more, but not actually suicidal. Could be an indication of parasiicidal behaviors showing either social acceptance or a pending epidemic of that personality disorder. Could be some social transmission of behaviors. Could be a million other things.


I do not think this is an epidemic of suicides.

I do understand how difficult it is to keep logical in the face of such awful suffering. But that’s what we are paid to do.

You are right. And in a way it's refreshing to hear that. It's been a tough month and I have two teens patients who were just hospitalized. Is it time for a vacation yet?

 

[Meteora]

It is scary and concerning stuff, and there is a hell of a lot more we can do at the preventive level.

At my old lab I did some assessments with children and perhaps it's my naivety, but it really surprised me that most of the 5-6 year olds had an understanding of what suicide was. I don't think there's anything wrong with psychoeducation from an early age, but I just feel like it was different from my youth.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

It is scary and concerning stuff, and there is a hell of a lot more we can do at the preventive level.

At my old lab I did some assessments with children and perhaps it's my naivety, but it really surprised me that most of the 5-6 year olds had an understanding of what suicide was. I don't think there's anything wrong with psychoeducation from an early age, but I just feel like it was different from my youth.

It's hard to say what is actually true and what just feels true. I am meeting with my daughter's school next week and it seems they are ill-equipped to handle how to address this kind of behavior in elementary school. There is some research discussing programs/responses, but not much.

 

[GradStudent2020]

It's hard to say what is actually true and what just feels true. I am meeting with my daughter's school next week and it seems they are ill-equipped to handle how to address this kind of behavior in elementary school. There is some research discussing programs/responses, but not much.

I thought I read something lately about increased rates of self-harm (not necessarily suicide). I’m on my phone and don’t have access to articles. I think there are valid reasons to be concerned.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I haven't seen suicide. More of a lack of distress tolerance, and an increased tendency to utilize self-harming behavior and/or contemplate suicide as a primary coping strategy.

I thought I read something lately about increased rates of self-harm (not necessarily suicide). I’m on my phone and don’t have access to articles. I think there are valid reasons to be concerned.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

Aren’t school shootings way, way up?

Not according to the available data last time I checked a few years ago.

Where are you getting way, way up from?

 

[hs2013]

Many homes are broken, kids aren't properly raised up nor taught morals, values, or what their life is about, rather they are raised by the TV and school environment, and they are addicted to their phones, TV, computer, etc.... I would think that any layman could see these trends in society as playing a large role in some of what you are mentioning.

 

[WisNeuro]

Many homes are broken, kids aren't properly raised up nor taught morals, values, or what their life is about, rather they are raised by the TV and school environment, and they are addicted to their phones, TV, computer, etc.... I would think that any layman could see these trends in society as playing a large role in some of what you are mentioning.

Laypeople frequently posit unsubstantiated theories that align with whatever beliefs they already hold. Just like this.

 

[Mad Jack]

My bet is that the increased rates of self-harm are related to increased knowledge of self-harming behaviors by increasingly socially isolated children that come from increasingly fragmented homes. We didn't even really know what cutting and other self-harm behaviors were when I was younger until well into high school, and a lack of knowledge sort of limits one to their own imagination with regard to how to cope with depression and anxiety. But if you've heard your friend is depressed and they do it and it makes them feel good, well, why not give it a shot

 

[hs2013]

Laypeople frequently posit unsubstantiated theories that align with whatever beliefs they already hold. Just like this.

And people with titles and degrees in a field often think they know everything and arrogantly disregard any idea another person may have, even though in several instances the one with the degree and "expertise" is wrong.

While your point is substantiated, so to is this point that I just made.

 

[WisNeuro]

 

[hs2013]

lol, I completely agree with what you said and yea for sure my first post is an unsubstantiated theory based on what i think and have observed. But it does annoy me with what I said in the later post. It's easy to see that people in higher positions and with experience and titles are often wrong as well, yet they have this arrogant attitude as if they know everything, can't be wrong, and just b/c the other person doesn't have a degree or title has no say.

How often are doctors wrong, or an accountant messes something up, or some research was flawed yet put into practice and hurt somebody.

Society in general just has way to much trust in people with titles when any idiot could have got that titles b/c nowadays titles are thrown around and given to any idiot as long as they pay the fee and pass some tests.

just a rant.

 

[WisNeuro]

lol, I completely agree with what you said and yea for sure my first post is an unsubstantiated theory based on what i think and have observed. But it does annoy me with what I said in the later post. It's easy to see that people in higher positions and with experience and titles are often wrong as well, yet they have this arrogant attitude as if they know everything, can't be wrong, and just b/c the other person doesn't have a degree or title has no say.

How often are doctors wrong, or an accountant messes something up, or some research was flawed yet put into practice and hurt somebody.

Society in general just has way to much trust in people with titles when any idiot could have got that titles b/c nowadays titles are thrown around and given to any idiot as long as they pay the fee and pass some tests.

just a rant.

It's more that the "kids these days" narrative is overplayed and flat out wrong, in every generation. I've referenced it earlier, but look at the critiques of Twenge's work for a mountain of research in this area. It's fine to have ideas, it's better to have ideas informed by reliable and accurate data.

 

[PsyDr]

It's more that the "kids these days" narrative is overplayed and flat out wrong, in every generation. I've referenced it earlier, but look at the critiques of Twenge's work for a mountain of research in this area. It's fine to have ideas, it's better to have ideas informed by reliable and accurate data.

I believe Plato said it best:

“What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets, inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?”

 

[GradStudent2020]

Not according to the available data last time I checked a few years ago.

Where are you getting way, way up from?

I misremembered what I’d read, but I think my comment was pretty clear that I was unsure.

Mass shootings have increased over the decades, not specific to school shootings.

 

[Sanman]

One thing this conversation does make me wonder about is how media coverage of such things has affected parenting and school response. I had not heard about the Momo suicide challenge till yesterday. Then my wife mentioned it to me, I read it here, and caught a piece of it on the evening news all within an hour. It sure feels like a major issue when you keep hearing about it.

 

[Mama Bear]

Just a reminder that the “Momo” thing is most likely a hoax. No evidence yet that it is tied to a rash of suicides. Child safety is such a sensitive issue in our society that misinformation preys on parental fears. Misinformation then gets mixed into the real information, making it seem like threats are around every corner.

 

[deleted343839]

Kind of like all those “satanic cults” in the 80s and 90s, right?

 

[WisNeuro]

Kind of like all those “satanic cults” in the 80s and 90s, right?

You mean kids playing D&D? I guess I was in one of those "cults."

 

[Sanman]

You mean kids playing D&D? I guess I was in one of those "cults."

I was in two as a child/teenager. Played D&D and Magic:the gathering (which was banned from my middle school...I'm such a rebel)

 

[memedoctor]

If you look at the cdc data; suicide rates are not up in that age group as a trend.

If you listen to more recent publications like pediatrics: there is a mild near term elevation.

If you listen to the popular press: it’s an epidemic.


It’s kinda like if you look at school shooting rates; or violent crime rates.

I went to the CDC's website to confirm this and it does not seem to support what you're saying?
Suicide rates rising across the U.S. | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

Suicide rates have been rising in nearly every state, according to the latest Vital Signs report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). In 2016, nearly 45,000 Americans age 10 or older died by suicide. Suicide is the 10th leading cause of death and is one of just three leading causes that are on the rise.

Products - Data Briefs - Number 309 - June 2018

Other research sources seem to support what LadyHalycon is talking about:
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7a/1526064668631/suicidio2167702617723376.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ational-Vital-Statistics-System-Mortality.pdf

 

[WisNeuro]

I went to the CDC's website to confirm this and it does not seem to support what you're saying?
Suicide rates rising across the U.S. | CDC Online Newsroom | CDC

Products - Data Briefs - Number 309 - June 2018
View attachment 252391

Other research sources seem to support what LadyHalycon is talking about:
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7a/1526064668631/suicidio2167702617723376.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...ational-Vital-Statistics-System-Mortality.pdf

But it is what he was saying. He quoted a different, but similar stat for the group that the OP is discussing. Even in your example, there is an increase of about 1 per 100k in young female suicide rate, and .2 in males in that age range. is an extra 1 per 100k an epidemic, or some variability in the data? When you are looking at extreme low base rate events, small changes in sampling and incidence can cause headlines like "Threefold-increase in suicides!" when taken out of context by people who do not understand RR and OR's in statistics. Additionally, you have to remember that these are statistics reported to the CDC from local authorities. There's some work out there in the past that some ME's would list another cause of death besides suicide (data that goes to CDC) and that trend has been changing in recent years. So, is it a change in suicides, or a change in how suicides are being reported? TO understand the issue, you need to understand the actual statistics and the numbers that those statistics come from.

Should we always strive to help our depressed and suicidal patients better, of course. Should we plan multi-billion dollar initiatives based on the data we see, probably not.

 

[memedoctor]

But it is what he was saying. He quoted a different, but similar stat for the group that the OP is discussing. Even in your example, there is an increase of about 1 per 100k in young female suicide rate, and .2 in males in that age range. is an extra 1 per 100k an epidemic, or some variability in the data? When you are looking at extreme low base rate events, small changes in sampling and incidence can cause headlines like "Threefold-increase in suicides!" when taken out of context by people who do not understand RR and OR's in statistics. Additionally, you have to remember that these are statistics reported to the CDC from local authorities. There's some work out there in the past that some ME's would list another cause of death besides suicide (data that goes to CDC) and that trend has been changing in recent years. So, is it a change in suicides, or a change in how suicides are being reported? TO understand the issue, you need to understand the actual statistics and the numbers that those statistics come from.

Should we always strive to help our depressed and suicidal patients better, of course. Should we plan multi-billion dollar initiatives based on the data we see, probably not.

Yeah, when I first responded there were only two posts in this thread so I saw his rebuttal to that point after I posted, and I agree with the main point you make at the end.

I do think that it is the case that there are a lot of new psychosocial challenges that are appearing due to our changing world, and those come with both good and bad things; increased exposure to harmful content, but also increased awareness/access to helpful stuff, so it's probably not helpful to frame it as necessarily all negative.
Though I think it's still pointing to some unique challenges that this generation is facing that deserves looking at more closely, since while I agree there isn't necessarily enough of an uptick to set off the sirens -- that there is a significant increasing trend despite the generally increasing access to resources and initiatives to try to address the problem, I think is meaningful.

 

[WisNeuro]

Though I think it's still pointing to some unique challenges that this generation is facing that deserves looking at more closely, since while I agree there isn't necessarily enough of an uptick to set off the sirens -- that there is a significant increasing trend despite the generally increasing access to resources and initiatives to try to address the problem, I think is meaningful.

Of course, we always need to update our approaches to keep in step with the times. But, we should be making informed decisions that are not based on misplaced hysteria and misunderstanding of statistics. Otherwise we just waste huge sums of money, that could probably be spent on issues that are killing a far greater amount of people (obesity), that probably won't move the needle in any way to be meaningful on a large scale.

 

[memedoctor]

Okay. I would consider noting a trend based on clinical experience as being a part of making informed decisions, and discussing some of those challenges as being a part of updating our approaches, then. So it seems like it is significant enough of a clinical issue that warrants discussing some of the questions posed in the OP, regardless of if the severity of the problem is growing at rate that warrants reallocation of resources that I don't have control over anyway.

I came across an article recently that was both fascinating and horrifying, and while I don't think it is biggest challenge that kids are facing, I think highlights a very bizarre new phenomenon of how algorithms are influencing what content we (and specifically children in this case) are being exposed to.


I definitely wonder a lot about how some of the technological landscape is impacting executive functioning development and how that is relating to mental health outcomes. I'd be curious if anyone knew of any good research on that.

 

[PsyDr]

@memedoctor


QuickStats: Suicide Rates for Teens Aged 15–19 Years, by Sex — United

 

[ClinicalABA]

This thread has been interesting. I think it highlights the importance of looking to identify trends in our own practices, as well as to compare what we see ourselves with with bigger population trends and then try to critically evaluate any differences. As a clinician I think it is always important to compare what you do and see in your own practice to what is going on in the bigger population at large. If you note any major discrepancies, you need to reconcile these in a way that reduces any bias you have. My rates of ASD diagnosis are astronomically higher that rates in the general population, and are going up. They are high because of my referral source, and the rates are getting higher because, as my waitlist gets longer, my main referral source (EI providers) are triaging out and only referring the most needy kids (who happen to be more likely to meet criteria for ASD). It would be erroneous for me to attribute the increasing rates of ASD I see in my clinic to actual increasing rates in the population. It would also be erroneous to clearly discount personal bias. I try to combat this through case review and consultation with peers, as well as occasionally do assessements with another clinician to check for reliability.

I could see a similar thing happening with things like NSSI. As you guys come to an area with a specialty, increase capacity to see that specialty population, and become know for seeing that population, it makes sense that you will see an increase in referral from that population. In other cases, in may reflect a bias on the part of the individual clinician. I remember a community provider coming in to talk to us when I was in grad school. She held the position that rates of DID were skyrocketing in our area, and that she had "dozens" of clients in her practice with a DID diagnosis. She practiced in a city with 25,000 residents, plus maybe 5000 students. I'm thinking she saw what she was looking for (somewhat confirmed when she went on to say that most people with DID didn't even know they had it, and only "discovered" the true nature of their issues after working with her.

As to the original post, looks like some of the data on suicide rates does not support a large scale trend (though there may be a more local trend). I also think it may be erroneous to look at suicidality and NSSI as closely related. I don't know the research to well, but they are likely more separate phenomena than you might think. I did attend a day long training on NSSI a few years back, and remember a lot of talk (not sure how research supported it was) about NSSI being highly contagious, with different techniques spread through message boards and the like.

 

[WisNeuro]

@memedoctor


QuickStats: Suicide Rates for Teens Aged 15–19 Years, by Sex — United

Time to Panic...........at the Disco

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Suicide and self-harm (NSSI) are serious and important problems. I think there is even a greater empathic response when we hear about it in children and adolescents. As mentioned in this thread already, there isn't strong evidence that there is a statistically worse problem now than before. That doesn't make the problem any more or less clinically significant.

I am not sure why school shootings are mentioned in this conversation since these are very different phenomenon.

My biggest concern is when illusory correlations are made between suicide and technology (or anything else). We don't have any good data that social media increases suicide or suicidality in the population (maybe in some risky populations). But I am happy to hear that suicide, as a serious and important matter, is now in the forefront of the public's mind. This is probably due to the media's interest in the topic (TV shows, songs, podcasts, recent celebrity deaths) rather than anything we see clinically or scientifically. Unfortunately, I think the public will be satisfied with their pop songs and TV shows and will move onto some other mental health flavor of the month.

For us, we continue to study, treat, and advocate for this important problem, no matter what is happening with the trend. And simply put, if we are worried about suicide in America, we are still most worried about middle-aged white men with small social networks and access to guns. We have some very simple ways to reduce suicide (mainly restricting access to lethal means and, I don't know, maybe disseminating actual evidence-based treatment) but can't do that due to the typical BS (mostly b/c it would restrict making money for some people and cost money for other people).

 

[WisNeuro]

Suicide and self-harm (NSSI) are serious and important problems. I think there is even a greater empathic response when we hear about it in children and adolescents. As mentioned in this thread already, there isn't strong evidence that there is a statistically worse problem now than before. That doesn't make the problem any more or less clinically significant.

I am not sure why school shootings are mentioned in this conversation since these are very different phenomenon.

My biggest concern is when illusory correlations are made between suicide and technology (or anything else). We don't have any good data that social media increases suicide or suicidality in the population (maybe in some risky populations). But I am happy to hear that suicide, as a serious and important matter, is now in the forefront of the public's mind. This is probably due media's interest in the topic (TV shows, songs, podcasts) rather than anything we see clinically or scientifically. Unfortunately, I think the public will be satisfied with their pop songs and TV shows and will move onto some other mental health flavor of the month.

For us, we continue to study, treat, and advocate for this important problem, no matter what is happening with the trend. And simply put, if we are worried about suicide in America, we are still most worried about middle-aged white men with small social networks and access to guns. We have some very simple ways to reduce suicide (mainly restricting access to lethal means and, I don't know, maybe disseminating actual evidence-based treatment) but can't do that due to the typical BS (mostly b/c it would restrict making money for some people and cost money for other people).

But......it's just too easy to blame screen time and Fortnite.

 

[memedoctor]

My biggest concern is when illusory correlations are made between suicide and technology (or anything else). We don't have any good data that social media increases suicide or suicidality in the population (maybe in some risky populations). But I am happy to hear that suicide, as a serious and important matter, is now in the forefront of the public's mind. This is probably due to the media's interest in the topic (TV shows, songs, podcasts, recent celebrity deaths) rather than anything we see clinically or scientifically. Unfortunately, I think the public will be satisfied with their pop songs and TV shows and will move onto some other mental health flavor of the month.

I agree it would be an error to reduce issues down to technology, absolutely. As I mentioned before, I think that a lot of the risk factors that may come along with the changing landscape, a lot of protective factors are coming too. So while there may be more social isolation due to internet addiction habits or cyberbullying in some cases, there are conversely also opportunities for social support and connection through social media, increased awareness and education about issues, etc.
With the amount of information that we have available at our finger tips, and how information gets distributed depending on platforms, I think it's really interesting to consider how our emotion and attention regulation skills are matching up to deal with the increase in access to all kinds of information - both harmful and helpful. How we're thinking about information, how we're navigating it and making sense of it, has been transforming for a while, and I assume that those are also sometimes influencing relationships to mental health outcomes - but in complex and dynamic ways.

 

[erg923]

I am just catching up on this. Maybe my family is old-school, but we don't allow unsupervised Youtube or other electronic entertainment. Neither did my parents (at least not until I was well into my teens). Its ABCMouse and occasional Nick Jr. shows or Netflix movie (usually on a weekend as a family). I am pretty surprised parents seem to be allowing 5, 6, 7 years-olds access to Youtube and other such via their own I-pads or TVs? Ths recent Momo stuff would seem to confirm that this tradition is probably a good idea? Plus, I thought "TV rots your brain?"

 

[memedoctor]

I am just catching up on this. Maybe my family is old-school, but we don't allow unsupervised Youtube or other electronic entertainment. Neither did my parents (at least not until I was well into my teens). Its ABCMouse and occasional Nick Jr. shows or Netflix movie (usually on a weekend as a family). I am pretty surprised parents seem to be allowing 5, 6, 7 years-olds access to Youtube and other such via their own I-pads or TVs. This recent Momo stuff would seem to confirm that this tradition is probably a good idea? Plus, I thought "TV rots your brain?"

For the Momo situation, I believe it's been pretty solidly debunked as a viral hoax, but as someone mentioned before, ends up misdirecting from plenty of other terrible crap is a problem. This article seems to do a pretty good job of covering some of the bases, imo: Parents: don't panic about Momo – worry about YouTube Kids instead | Keza MacDonald

 

[erg923]

For the Momo situation, I believe it's been pretty solidly debunked as a viral hoax, but as someone mentioned before, ends up misdirecting from plenty of other terrible crap is a problem. This article seems to do a pretty good job of covering some of the bases, imo: Parents: don't panic about Momo – worry about YouTube Kids instead | Keza MacDonald

As in its doesn't even exist at all? I haven't seen or looked for it myself, but our kids are in school and we don't do alot of TV time anyway, so what do I know?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

As in its doesn't even exist at all? I haven't seen or looked for it myself, but our kids are in school and we don't do alot of TV time anyway, so what do I know?

My understanding: Momo specifically doesn't exist, no. But some of the things people were up in arms about RE: Momo (e.g., splicing inappropriate content into children's YouTube videos) definitely do happen. No clue on how widespread it is. If I have kids, they're getting tinker toys and Legos until they're 20.

 

[erg923]

My understanding: Momo specifically doesn't exist, no. But some of the things people were up in arms about RE: Momo (e.g., splicing inappropriate content into childrens' YouTube videos) definitely does happen. No clue on how widespread it is. If I have kids, they're getting tinker toys and Legos until they're 20.

Lincoln Logs, MoFo...

 

[memedoctor]

My understanding: Momo specifically doesn't exist, no. But some of the things people were up in arms about RE: Momo (e.g., splicing inappropriate content into childrens' YouTube videos) definitely does happen. No clue on how widespread it is. If I have kids, they're getting tinker toys and Legos until they're 20.

Trying to enforce that sounds like an utterly Sisyphean task to me ... but heck, maybe those are all we really have anyway.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

One thing this conversation does make me wonder about is how media coverage of such things has affected parenting and school response. I had not heard about the Momo suicide challenge till yesterday. Then my wife mentioned it to me, I read it here, and caught a piece of it on the evening news all within an hour. It sure feels like a major issue when you keep hearing about it.

I have been communicating with parents at my daughter's school all day. There have been many problems in her class this year: sexual harassment, bullying, and now cutting. There was an incident today where a boy he grabbed a girl by the waist and pushed her to the ground. This boy has a history of "accidentally" bumping into girls. There are only 45 kids in her grade and the school doesn't seem to know how to handle these things. Partly, because these kinds of behaviors are beginning much earlier. They just hired a "puberty specialist" to meet with the kids, but I'm doubtful that will be an effective strategy.

Another alarming trend is the increase of students getting arrested at school for sometimes minor infractions (e.g. The school to prison pipeline). I regularly receive referrals from juvenile probation and I hate how schools are handling behavior. One of the biggest risk factos for adult incarceration is early exposure to the legal system. Plus, in my area, they are either suspending or expelling the kids and making them attend alternative schools. I recently tested a kid who had to "earn" back full time attendance. Basically, he had to attend school 3 hours per day 3 days a week for 9 weeks before he could return to school full-time. As a result he has anxiety about falling behind in school, too much free time, and is isolated from his peers. I went off on a slight tangent, but I would hate to see this trend extend to elementary school. I think schools should adopt a restorative justice approach, and there is research supporting the successful implementation of these programs within the school system.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I'm not necessarily talking about suicide, more suicidal comments and NSSI.

The chart depicts the following:

Nonfatal Self-Inflicted Injury Emergency Department Visits Among Youth Aged 10 to 24 Years in the United States, 2001-2015

" Data markers indicate observed rates and solid colored lines indicate modeled rates. The error bars represent the 95% CIs of the observed rates. A, No significant trends for annual percentage change by age group were noted for males. B, Among females, the significant trends for annual percentage change by age group were 2009 to 2015 (18.8 [95% CI, 12.1-25.8]) for 10 to 14 years, 2008 to 2015 (7.2 [95% CI, 3.8-10.8]) for 15 to 19 years, and 2001 to 2015 (2.0 [95% CI, 0.8-3.1]) for 20 to 24 years."

So female ages 10 to 14 saw an increase of almost 19%, while the oldest age bracket saw a 2% increase.

 

[MAClinician]

I’ve been working with children and adolescents on Medicaid since 2005 and SI, NSSI, bullying, social media bullying has been an ongoing issue since I’ve been working. My observations, minus data as I don’t track individual clients so this is anecdotal evidence for the past 15 years, is that folks on Medicaid have the most psychosocial stressors and the least effective support systems. Anywhere from 60-80% of my caseload at any one time has experienced trauma of some sort (abuse, neglect, witness to DV, community violence, unstable housing, inter generational trauma). They may come from homes with single parents, single parents with a history of multiple partners, parents who work long hours but struggle to make ends meet, etc. So many of the parents I have worked with use their kids electronics systems as a “babysitter “ for a variety of reasons. It drives me nuts when 8/9/10/11 year olds have brand new iPhones or Android phones! If your kid is not at home, they should be with an adult who has a phone and can reach you in case of an emergency. Schools have phones, your kid doesn’t need to bring their phone to school! Add in the social media and kids have a blurred understanding of boundaries and interpersonal skills. There are the parents who try to do what’s best for their child and make good choices but I have less of those than the parents who are most likely to 1) check out emotionally because their own family didn’t model healthy relationships or 2) overcompensate by buying kids anything they want instead of learning how to earn things. It’s definitely very daunting and defeating at times, so I try to hold on to the moments where a family or child made progress on something, no matter how small that might be. Sometimes just the experience of having an adult listen and validate what the child experienced is enough to get that child to the next step of making changes. Even better if I’ve helped a parent try something that worked to ultimately help their child. There are definitely outside factors at play for these “trends”/concerns Being identified in this post. I would not doubt these issues happen in kids with access to private insurance too, but it often “feels” like those kids have more effective support systems (family, friends, outside interests) and have more effective resources to cope with the extraneous distractions. Again, just my observations over a lengthy period of time.