diversity factors

[trailrider400]

I don't know if this has been discussed but doesn't schools selecting based on race and other diversity factors seem wrong to anyone? I understand that people with a disadvantaged background should have an equal chance. But with all the state and federal financial aid should grades, pcat, extracurriculars, and work experience be enough?

This was one of the supplemental questions for the University of Minnesota

Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages. Discuss how you will contribute uniquely to the diversity in our Pharm.D. program. (1,700 characters maximum including spaces)

I just don't see why they need to flat out say they will basically select based on skin color and race. I'm from a single parent home and have had to work fulltime to pay my way through school. But I still don't fit their idea of diverse.

Any comments?

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[Illinigirl09]

I don't know if this has been discussed but doesn't schools selecting based on race and other diversity factors seem wrong to anyone? I understand that people with a disadvantaged background should have an equal chance. But with all the state and federal financial aid should grades, pcat, extracurriculars, and work experience be enough?

This was one of the supplemental questions for the University of Minnesota

Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages. Discuss how you will contribute uniquely to the diversity in our Pharm.D. program. (1,700 characters maximum including spaces)

I just don't see why they need to flat out say they will basically select based on skin color and race. I'm from a single parent home and have had to work fulltime to pay my way through school. But I still don't fit their idea of diverse.

Any comments?

Read the question: they don't flat out say that they're basing their selection on skin color and race. They're asking about DIVERSITY, what makes you different. What makes your circumstances unique and sets you apart. You being raised in a single parent home is what they would consider a diversity factor. I'm a white girl - but I have things that made my childhood interesting that have nothing to do with race or skin color. They even mention "geographic diversity" - what if you grew up in a rural town? That makes your perspective different and probably makes you stand out from the crowd. I'm sure each one of us has something interesting that makes us unique and diverse and would bring something interesting to the table. And that doesn't necessarily have ANYTHING to do with race.

 

[PharmPrincess]

Usually they just want to make sure if you're going to be a health professional, you're going to be able to handle a diverse population during your practice. It helps to explain how you're open minded to new people and culture and not have a bias/stereotyping behavior that would hinder you in your profession. Where I live is pretty much diverse in race and cultural makeup, which will help me (I believe) in my career. Plus the admission committee would like to also fill their seats with diverse people (coming from different backgrounds ie rich vs. poor, different race, different culture, etc). They want to be able to represent the surrounding area (like the city/campus) in their class too.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Keep in mind the process is still fair. If you've done what you're supposed to do, you should have no problem gaining admission. This is nothing to worry about.

 

[calisoca]

I just don't see why they need to flat out say they will basically select based on skin color and race.
Any comments?

They didn't. They said:

"Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages."

Your own post proves your thoughts as being mentally inept. They essentially covered all grounds here and you chose to read it as them considering "skin color and race." Looks like you have a case of selective comprehension.

 

[sprinkle0420]

I think that schools should take into account a person's background, maybe not so much as defined by race, but definitely socioeconomic background. It is much harder for someone who grew up borderline poverty level with parents who never even finished high school to accomplish the same educational goals as someone whose parents are upper middle class and well-educated. The latter has an obvious advantage in that his or her's parents can pay for after-school tutors, expensive private schools, and are able to help him/her through college application process. The former however usually has to deal with sh***y public schools where the teachers are burnt out, parents who cannot help them through the college application process because they have never went through it themselves (let alone help them with their high school homework), and often times deal with harsher social environments such as the pervasive presence of drugs. More often than not, those who come from the lower rungs of the socioeconomic ladder happen to be Black, Chicano, Native American.... I am not saying that this is the case everytime though, so please no one come in with their stories of "well, I knew of some Black/Latino/Native American kids that went to my school that were well off." Yes, I know they exist, but they represent only a relatively small subsection of these populations. Yes, our president may be Black (and I couldn't be happier to see a minority running the White House being a minority myself), however, there are still big strides to be made in reaching higher education for these populations as a whole.

 

[PharmPrincess]

They didn't. They said:

"Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages."

Your own post proves your thoughts as being mentally inept. They essentially covered all grounds here and you chose to read it as them considering "skin color and race." Looks like you have a case of selective comprehension.

I totally agree with this post. Diversity doesn't automatically mean race/ethnicity. You didn't read this correctly and need to understand that institutions cannot be blatant like your thinking. This is the 21st century after all.

In case you didn't get this, here's an example of the following they wanted you to think about:
academic background: whether you completed college, fresh out of high school, have an associate degree or bachelors, certification etc
professional background: degree or not; family in the professional field, etc
race/ethnicity: nationalty; minority; majority, conservative, traditional, etc
geographic diversity: if you're from the US or not; from one side of the country (like Cali) or from a small town/county, etc
first generation college student: If you're the first to be in college, graduate college in your family, etc
challenging or disadvantaged background: disabled, handicapped, poor, your parents and yourself are first generation in the US, single-parent, divorced, etc
ability in multiple languages: cultural, open background knowledge in different cultures, etc

these are all examples on how one person can be diverse and contribute this and their experience to their school. I hope that's clear now

 

[Scikotic]

I don't know if this has been discussed but doesn't schools selecting based on race and other diversity factors seem wrong to anyone? I understand that people with a disadvantaged background should have an equal chance. But with all the state and federal financial aid should grades, pcat, extracurriculars, and work experience be enough?

This was one of the supplemental questions for the University of Minnesota

Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages. Discuss how you will contribute uniquely to the diversity in our Pharm.D. program. (1,700 characters maximum including spaces)

I just don't see why they need to flat out say they will basically select based on skin color and race. I'm from a single parent home and have had to work fulltime to pay my way through school. But I still don't fit their idea of diverse.

Any comments?

I think with the high applicant volumes as in recent years, the admissions committee has the right to be as selective as they want (unfortunately). But if this question really bothers you, simply apply to a different school.

 

[Storm90]

On the application form for Dalhousie (when I last applied there), it said "Do you want to be considered under the Affirmative Action plan of the university?" In other words, do you want to be considered as a minority? One year out of 90 students, 86 were minority. I'm not knocking them, but that's a lot. And yes, I feel it's wrong to admit based on this criterion. Many things should be considered other than race/gender/etc.

 

[Artful Dodger]

On the application form for Dalhousie (when I last applied there), it said "Do you want to be considered under the Affirmative Action plan of the university?" In other words, do you want to be considered as a minority? One year out of 90 students, 86 were minority. I'm not knocking them, but that's a lot. And yes, I feel it's wrong to admit based on this criterion. Many things should be considered other than race/gender/etc.

Well, that's your opinion...I support Affirmative Action in the healthcare realm, even though I'm not one myself. Yes, we DO need people, who are URM, to represent & cater to the needs of those belonging to their race. IT'S A BIG DEAL, especially in healthcare! If you don't believe me, read books about human disease & their history (which I have - on the surface)...professional schools don't have enough time to cover everything you need to know about race & disease...they rely on you to find that out by yourself. how is that possible? by belonging to a certain race you've already been exposed to the experience. I know this sounds ignorant, so don't take this post on a superficial level.

BUT YES, we shouldn't just focus on affirmative action status; we should also consider other factors, such as...does this person have passion? does this person have potential? does this person have a clear vision? can this person compete with other students? can this person work with others? Most of the time, as I've heard, admission members consider a URM based on this train of thought. Because, let's look at the reality of it, there's thousands of people who are qualified for pharmacy school & get rejected - every stinkin year! Trust me, the hardest part of pharmacy school is GAINING admission. An affirmative action candidate deserves priority in that circumstance...most are qualified. A majority who were there from the start LEFT a long time ago...Why? People find out quickly if they enjoy something or not. Time has passed & people are still left...most of them (i'll say 79%) deserve admission on the first try - not just affirmative action candidates.

btw, URM = underrepresented minority (latino/hispanic, native american, african american, eskimo, and a few others).

Again, I don't want to upset anyone. This is just my opinion. I also want to stress that I'm NOT a URM or affirmative action candidate for pharmacy school. I just believe in justice..in this circumstance, it's to protect the integrity of the admissions process & respect the rights of people (who need the most security - history does come back to haunt us, eventually).

 

[trailrider400]

yeah I understand both sides of the argument and that diversity factors are just one small factor the school considers. But at the same time it justs seems a little wrong that in the case of two students with the same identical in GPA, PCAT, work experience etc. that the school very well could and would select someone based on skin color or race. And I'm not trying to come off as ignorant or prejudice I just think it would be better to leave it out of the application process.

 

[PrepharmKID]

i think overall they would just accept the person that brings the most to the school. maybe one plays sports or something. i highly doubt they straight up play the race card when choosing students in those instances.

 

[Storm90]

...I support Affirmative Action in the healthcare realm, even though I'm not one myself. Yes, we DO need people, who are URM, to represent & cater to the needs of those belonging to their race. IT'S A BIG DEAL, especially in healthcare! If you don't believe me, read books about human disease & their history (which I have - on the surface)...professional schools don't have enough time to cover everything you need to know about race & disease...they rely on you to find that out by yourself. how is that possible? by belonging to a certain race you've already been exposed to the experience. I know this sounds ignorant, so don't take this post on a superficial level.

Artful Dodger, I agree with your statement. We do need more URM in the workforce, and while I don't like Affirmative Action as a factor in your application, those who are qualified should gain admission. My issue with Dal was that I was interviewed in the same period as a student I met a few years later (she was accepted, I was not). She was an extremely competent student and professional all the way who had been accepted because she was an URM. She had good grades (as did I), but she hadn't completed her pre-requisites, and in fact had only finished the last one 2 years into the pharmacy program. She told me "the school made a special exception" for her. If we're even as candidates, then pick who you will, but if "special exceptions" are made, that is what bothers me. If she had completed all her pre-reqs beforehand as per school policy, I wouldn't have been upset, nor had the opinion I do about affirmative action.

 

[Artful Dodger]

yeah I understand both sides of the argument and that diversity factors are just one small factor the school considers. But at the same time it justs seems a little wrong that in the case of two students with the same identical in GPA, PCAT, work experience etc. that the school very well could and would select someone based on skin color or race. And I'm not trying to come off as ignorant or prejudice I just think it would be better to leave it out of the application process.

well, the only thing that distinguishes you is your personality. i think they see that first...and if the affirmative action candidate brings more character & diversity, why not choose that person? People need to be exposed to experience. and affirmative action candidates themselves are already considered experienced with regards to culture - food, living, relationships, etc. healthcare truly needs those people in the workforce. it may feel like discrimination, i know, but it makes healthcare more efficient & accessible for all patients. but look, in the end, whatever happens...it'll be the most fair thing you've experienced. if you have the gpa, mcat, experience, etc., i really don't know who wouldn't accept you? trust me, you'll be fine if you meet all expectations of a typical admitted student. in addition, don't worry about other people; worry about yourself - is the best i advice i can give you.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Artful Dodger, I agree with your statement. We do need more URM in the workforce, and while I don't like Affirmative Action as a factor in your application, those who are qualified should gain admission. My issue with Dal was that I was interviewed in the same period as a student I met a few years later (she was accepted, I was not). She was an extremely competent student and professional all the way who had been accepted because she was an URM. She had good grades (as did I), but she hadn't completed her pre-requisites, and in fact had only finished the last one 2 years into the pharmacy program. She told me "the school made a special exception" for her. If we're even as candidates, then pick who you will, but if "special exceptions" are made, that is what bothers me. If she had completed all her pre-reqs beforehand as per school policy, I wouldn't have been upset, nor had the opinion I do about affirmative action.

I getchu. well, if rules are broken...no "special exceptions" should be made. but i think in general, in the realm of healthcare, affirmative action should be used to make healthcare more accessible & efficient. your example sounds like straight up abuse of the affirmative action doctrine. not good...

 

[tootoo30]

I don't know if this has been discussed but doesn't schools selecting based on race and other diversity factors seem wrong to anyone? I understand that people with a disadvantaged background should have an equal chance. But with all the state and federal financial aid should grades, pcat, extracurriculars, and work experience be enough?

This was one of the supplemental questions for the University of Minnesota

Our admissions committee will consider diversity factors including but not limited to academic background, professional background, race/ethnicity, geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages. Discuss how you will contribute uniquely to the diversity in our Pharm.D. program. (1,700 characters maximum including spaces)

I just don't see why they need to flat out say they will basically select based on skin color and race. I'm from a single parent home and have had to work fulltime to pay my way through school. But I still don't fit their idea of diverse.

Any comments?

I don't know why you don't fit into their idea of diverse, coming from a single parent home and working fulltime and going to school fulltime how disadvantaged do you have be to make the list?

 

[trailrider400]

divorce rate is 49% and everyone I know worked a bunch in college... try again... but everyone else thanks for adding to the discussion!

 

[BLueMiraH]

if ur Asian is it better not to state your ethnicity because of reverse-affirmative action, since Asians are an Over-Represented Minority. I had heard that they often compete with each other with higher standards.

what about being middle eastern?

 

[Artful Dodger]

if ur Asian is it better not to state your ethnicity because of reverse-affirmative action, since Asians are an Over-Represented Minority. I had heard that they often compete with each other with higher standards.

what about being middle eastern?

Middle Eastern = White

I am one myself - 1st generation.

straight off of wikipedia

"The term Caucasian (or Caucasoid) race has been used to denote the general physical type of some or all of the indigenous populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, and South Asia."

 

[ron18]

On the application form for Dalhousie (when I last applied there), it said "Do you want to be considered under the Affirmative Action plan of the university?" In other words, do you want to be considered as a minority? One year out of 90 students, 86 were minority. I'm not knocking them, but that's a lot. And yes, I feel it's wrong to admit based on this criterion. Many things should be considered other than race/gender/etc.

Hey Storm,
I took your advice and applied to Dal as an out of province student. I was Just wondering what the requirement was to be considered a minority when you applied there? This year it was maritime residents who belong to the indigenous Black and Aboriginal population.

 

[SHC1984]

I don't agree with Affirmative Action. I think everyone should be looked upon by merit only, period. Whoever works the hardest with the best results should get the spot. Race shouldn't be factor in at all. In fact I don't think there should be a spot that ask for race. It should be just GPA and coursework, PCAT, EX activities, pharm related experiences, PS statement...NO race should be needed for the admission process b/c your race shouldn't matter.

 

[Storm90]

Hey Storm,
I took your advice and applied to Dal as an out of province student. I was Just wondering what the requirement was to be considered a minority when you applied there? This year it was maritime residents who belong to the indigenous Black and Aboriginal population.

I don't know what the requirement was when I applied. Like I said earlier, the student I spoke of was from Iraq. I used to joke that I should apply under that policy as a male caucasian since it seemed that was an URM (pharmacy is a female majority profession in my experience) , but I wanted to be accepted because I was worthy of it, not because of factors I couldn't control. Best of luck to you though!

 

[Artful Dodger]

I don't know what the requirement was when I applied. Like I said earlier, the student I spoke of was from Iraq. I used to joke that I should apply under that policy as a male caucasian since it seemed that was an URM (pharmacy is a female majority profession in my experience) , but I wanted to be accepted because I was worthy of it, not because of factors I couldn't control. Best of luck to you though!

Just an FYI:

Middle Eastern people ARE NOT included in URM or Affirmative Action clause (look it up if you don't believe me). I'm pretty sure admission members are aware. If you're middle eastern, you can't even mark "other"; they are classified under the "caucasian" category. I personally know about this, because I am middle eastern, so I've done a fair share of research on this particular classification.

Anyway, the student you speak of was probably joking...or maybe he/she exaggerated their point...I don't really know. The admission committee isn't that stupid (I hope *crosses fingers* lol).

 

[MaadPharm]

Remember, there are some private schools who can select minorities more freely (Like Hampton). Any public school should not consider race, but we all know they do.

 

[Storm90]

Just an FYI:

Middle Eastern people ARE NOT included in URM or Affirmative Action clause (look it up if you don't believe me). I'm pretty sure admission members are aware. If you're middle eastern, you can't even mark "other"; they are classified under the "caucasian" category. I personally know about this, because I am middle eastern, so I've done a fair share of research on this particular classification.

Anyway, the student you speak of was probably joking...or maybe he/she exaggerated their point...I don't really know. The admission committee isn't that stupid (I hope *crosses fingers* lol).

I was not aware of how schools determine affirmative action. I also don't want to come across like I'm racist or discriminatory when it comes to minorities (part of my family is from Egypt). While it would be nice that the student I spoke of was only joking, she didn't realize that an exception was made as it came up in conversation, and through my many dealings with that adcom, (in my opinion only) they were that stupid. When I found out though, I was too tired and upset from my numerous encounters with Dal to even care to look into it, so I left it.

 

[apux]

I don't think race should play a role in acceptance but factors associated to it like mentioned in the question, "geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages," are important. I think the main thing is how all these factors affect one's personality which in turn will affect whether that one will be best suited for pharmacy school or not...

 

[Artful Dodger]

I was not aware of how schools determine affirmative action. I also don't want to come across like I'm racist or discriminatory when it comes to minorities (part of my family is from Egypt). While it would be nice that the student I spoke of was only joking, she didn't realize that an exception was made as it came up in conversation, and through my many dealings with that adcom, (in my opinion only) they were that stupid. When I found out though, I was too tired and upset from my numerous encounters with Dal to even care to look into it, so I left it.

That is really interesting. Well, I hope this is the only story I'll hear about the abuse of affirmative action...but that's not likely. This is a subject that can divide many people, although I'm a supporter of affirmative action (for the right reasons)...but i think from this story...i may have to reconsider my position - not entirely though.

BTW, you're not a racist for pointing that out. i would have the same concern if i were in your shoes. it's totally unfair.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I don't think race should play a role in acceptance but factors associated to it like mentioned in the question, "geographic diversity, first generation college student, challenging or disadvantaged background, and ability in multiple languages," are important. I think the main thing is how all these factors affect one's personality which in turn will affect whether that one will be best suited for pharmacy school or not...

it really shouldn't be in the end, although it should maintain a certain priority when selecting students (for patients & healthcare in general...for example, an african american patient usually prefers to see an african american health professional...it sounds racist but someone who comes from the same background may know more about their health than someone who doesnt share a patient's origin/nationality). etc etc...this discussion can go on forever!