DMU vs AT STILL (KCOM)

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CpGisland

CpGisland

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I know people must be hating this school vs that school threads, but I amreally stuck in a position of which school to choose and with the next depositdeadlines (May 1st and Mid-April) approaching for both school I need to decide.I have compared a few of the big factors that go into picking a school. Pleasefeel free to correct any mistakes and/or add additional information.

I know both schools are highly regarded in the DO community. This factallowed me to narrow it down to both of these schools.

Looking at the facilities DMU in my opinion beat KCOM. Thebuildings were modern, they had great simulation center for surgery, and theyboth have video and audio recording of lectures while KCOM only has audio.Although KCOM does have a ultrasound lab and a virtual colonoscopy setup.

In terms of population I would give the upper hand to KCOMalthough some may argue my reasoning. DMU med school class is much bigger 220vs 160 (i may be off). I may be wrong, but i was under the impression duringthe interview/tour that the class during your first two years will includestudents from the podiatry and physical therapy program, which will make classsize gap even bigger.

Location. I think most people would say DMU is a farsuperior location and I would agree, but for me this is not a major factor.Kirksville is a nice town (lots of outdoor activities) and you are only reallythere for two years. Winters in both locations are rough, but I am use to it asa midwest native.

Post Graduate Opportunities. It seems that both schools areabout equal on this issue. Looking at match list it seems as though bothschools had some great placements for their graduates.

http://www.dmu.edu/do/program-strengths/residency-match-list/

http://www.atsu.edu/kcom/prospective_students/postgrad_flipbook/#/2/

Fellow Students. Let me start by stating that I have onlybeen to each school once for the interview, but I got the impression that KCOMwas friendlier. DMU seemed to be "clickly". Also, at KCOM I studentswere more likely to help their fellow classmates. (Once again I maybecompletely wrong about this).

Research. I know the possibility of doing research ispresent at both schools and they both have some professors with fairly largegrants, but I got the impression that DMU has more opportunities in differentfields than did KCOM.

Professors. At both schools students spoke highly about alltheir professors. I would say this is a tossup.

Class variety. Another toss up maybe leaning a littletowards DMU as i thought the had a few more electives.

OMM. Another toss up maybe leaning a little towards KCOM.Out of all the schools I interviewed at no one compares to DMU and KCOM. Theseschools seemed to be the most competent at OMM ; in addition, they seem toemphasis it more than another school. OMM may not be for everyone but if you’regoing to get a osteopathic education i feel as though you should become very proficientat it.

Sorry for any errors I wrote this late at night. I would appreciate any imputefrom prospective or current students. Thanks
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That is tough. I would say DMU because I am biased, but KCOM is awesome. You are trying to decide between the two oldest DO schools in the nation. Both are great.
 
You couldn't pay me enough to live in Kirskville, but that's just me. I know my fiancee would probably leave me.

I haven't been to either campus, though, so who knows. It depends on how well you like a small town feel versus a small city feel.

I honestly like DMU mainly just because FrkyBgStok does.
 
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ManBroDude said:
You couldn't pay me enough to live in Kirskville, but that's just me. I know my fiancee would probably leave me.

I haven't been to either campus, though, so who knows. It depends on how well you like a small town feel versus a small city feel.

I honestly like DMU mainly just because FrkyBgStok does.
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Good man. I agree though. My wife and I drove through Kirksville and it was a no go.
 
ManBroDude said:
You couldn't pay me enough to live in Kirskville, but that's just me. I know my fiancee would probably leave me.

I haven't been to either campus, though, so who knows. It depends on how well you like a small town feel versus a small city feel.

I honestly like DMU mainly just because FrkyBgStok does.
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I share the same point of view.
 
OP, as you have already stated both are great schools and both will get you where you need to go. Yes Kirksville is in a small town, but I guess I thought that would be good for me. I am from Des Moines and I know that I would not pay as much attention to school as I should being in the Des Moines metro. Bottom line is... You are going to medical school, go to where ever you felt the most comfortable.
 
Don't let the size of the class deter you from DMU because it really is not a problem. You get plenty of attention from the faculty and the second year teaching assistants in labs.
 
The best advice I can give as an MS-0 (and how I ultimately made my own decision amongst DO schools) is go where you felt most comfortable. The advice is a bit repetitive...but to give you an idea on my own experience...one school in particular shined above all others for me.

I was able to envision myself sitting in the lecture hall, spending time in the anatomy lab, hanging out with the students, spending time in the surrounding community, etc.

It sounds a bit cliché, but try and recall your experience at the interview days and see if one really stands out in those regards. Either way, you really can't go wrong...both schools are great.
 
I was accepted at both schools earlier this application cycle and have since then turned down DMU. My reasoning? Gut feeling.

I spent countless hours researching both schools and reading student testimonials. The plain fact is that it's hard to be objective in deciding since you've already felt the atmosphere of both schools. Then again, can you really get a good feel of the atmosphere of the school in a few hours on interview day?

In the end, you are choosing between two great and comparable schools. At this point, your gut feeling may be the best thing to go by 🙂
 
OP, I agree with everyone that both of these schools are excellent. You cannot go wrong here. Pick the best fit.

That said, in reading your evaluation of the schools above, as an outsider, it is obvious to me that DMU is the best fit for you. On top of all the other reasons you listed above, DMU is slightly less expensive. Go DMU and don't even look back. You'll get a quality education, you'll save money, you'll learn OMM well, and you'll get to hang with FrkyBgStok. 🙂
 
cougardiver said:
OP, I agree with everyone that both of these schools are excellent. You cannot go wrong here. Pick the best fit.

That said, in reading your evaluation of the schools above, as an outsider, it is obvious to me that DMU is the best fit for you. On top of all the other reasons you listed above, DMU is slightly less expensive. Go DMU and don't even look back. You'll get a quality education, you'll save money, you'll learn OMM well, and you'll get to hang with FrkyBgStok. 🙂
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And this trumps any reason.

OP- I am really trying to step back and give an unbiased opinion, and it is easier in this situation because KCOM is such a good school. I feel like you are choosing between number 1 and number 2 and many will argue between which one is number 1 and which is number 2. But if DMU was my siamese twin, I wouldn't want to be separated.

When I was at DMU for the interview, I stepped away to go to the bathroom a couple of times and I would say that a dozen people NOT related to the tour guides or the chaperones came up to me and said, "good luck." Many gave advice and I really felt a sense of family. DMU records all their lectures and they have that file sharing things where people make study materials and put them up for everyone to use. I have also seen kids playing in certain areas while the parents sit and have lunch. I would assume at least one was a student and this was big for me.

DMU also has a sweet sim lab. The surgical skills lab lets you learn, practice, and execute proper sterile technique, so if you are interested in surgery this could be huge. The facilities everywhere are top of the line and the anatomy lab looked very organized. It is also a small campus that gives off a family feel. Not to mention the amazing board scores and baller match lists nor the fact that I have talked to nurses and health care workers all across the nation that have said they work with numerous physicians that graduated from DMU. There is a huge network of physicians. And it being the second oldest DO school, you don't have to worry about any bias. But then again, KCOM was the first.

So now I left my actual opinion. I have seen people argue that no DO school is better than DMU. It is easy for me to say that, but some have been students elsewhere. You can also argue that for any school though. I have seen very similar arguments for KCOM so if you choose to go there, you won't be disappointed.
 
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DMU.

Just kidding. But yeah, Stok nailed it. Both are fantastic schools... and you're in a great position to have been accepted by both. Your breakdown seems to result in a tie between KCOM and DMU... but DMU's sim labs and surgical training lab really enticed me. Also, DMU's gym is amazing... not that I'm a gym rat, but I hope to become one during medschool and I think DMU's gym will help with this.

Good luck with your decision!
 
Iliketoytles said:
DMU.

Just kidding. But yeah, Stok nailed it. Both are fantastic schools... and you're in a great position to have been accepted by both. Your breakdown seems to result in a tie between KCOM and DMU... but DMU's sim labs and surgical training lab really enticed me. Also, DMU's gym is amazing... not that I'm a gym rat, but I hope to become one during medschool and I think DMU's gym will help with this.

Good luck with your decision!
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toytles, haven't seen you in awhile... welcome back

/threadjack
 
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I got an interview at DMU and really liked the campus. I'm currently waitlisted... hopefully I'll get a spot.

(An interesting factoid I learned during my interview: The governor of Iowa is a former president of DMU...)
 
dntke1518 said:
toytles, haven't seen you in awhile... welcome back

/threadjack
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Thank you, sir. I've been overseas the past month (I'm in Dubai right now). Will be returning in April. 🙂

drakejr said:
I got an interview at DMU and really liked the campus. I'm currently waitlisted... hopefully I'll get a spot.

(An interesting factoid I learned during my interview: The governor of Iowa is a former president of DMU...)
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Good luck! And that's a neat factoid. Really neat, actually.
 
Interesting take on these two schools. I am going to be applying this upcoming summer for the class of 2017 and these two schools are both in my top three😍!
 
Does anyone know the policy DMU and KCOM have regarding STEP1 and STEP2?

On the tour I think one of the KCOM students said that were given a month off to study for the test. At DMU I believe someone mentioned that the school payed for test prep but no time off.

Also, my apologies for posting my original comparison of DMU and KCOM on the medical forum. I was unaware that was against the rules.
 
Classes in second year end before June 1 and you can take the test up to July 15. Or at least that is how it was 2 years ago.
 
Be sure to let us know what you decide!

CpGisland said:
Does anyone know the policy DMU and KCOM have regarding STEP1 and STEP2?

On the tour I think one of the KCOM students said that were given a month off to study for the test. At DMU I believe someone mentioned that the school payed for test prep but no time off.

Also, my apologies for posting my original comparison of DMU and KCOM on the medical forum. I was unaware that was against the rules.
Click to expand...
 
CpGisland said:
Does anyone know the policy DMU and KCOM have regarding STEP1 and STEP2?

On the tour I think one of the KCOM students said that were given a month off to study for the test. At DMU I believe someone mentioned that the school payed for test prep but no time off.

Also, my apologies for posting my original comparison of DMU and KCOM on the medical forum. I was unaware that was against the rules.
Click to expand...

For DMU, classes end in May for your second year and rotations start usually August 1st so you can take it anytime in between.
 
I appreciate all the feedback. Looking at the comparison post of these two schools from years past I noticed several people mentioned the differences in guidance during the third and forth year rotations. Can any alumni, current or future students from DMU and KCOM elaborate on the support given during the rotations.
 
CpGisland said:
I appreciate all the feedback. Looking at the comparison post of these two schools from years past I noticed several people mentioned the differences in guidance during the third and forth year rotations. Can any alumni, current or future students from DMU and KCOM elaborate on the support given during the rotations.
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Im pretty sure for your third year you just stay at your schools hospital
 
avabio said:
Im pretty sure for your third year you just stay at your schools hospital
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Incorrect. Some students may stay at a local hospital near the school but others will move to other parts of the country to do their rotations.
 
KCOM OMS3 here. What questions can I perhaps answer for you about rotations?

Also in response to this:
"When I was at DMU for the interview, I stepped away to go to the bathroom a couple of times and I would say that a dozen people NOT related to the tour guides or the chaperones came up to me and said, "good luck." Many gave advice and I really felt a sense of family. DMU records all their lectures and they have that file sharing things where people make study materials and put them up for everyone to use. I have also seen kids playing in certain areas while the parents sit and have lunch. I would assume at least one was a student and this was big for me."

KCOM had the NICEST people there when I interviewed and I not to brag but I feel like my classmates were just as welcoming to the interviewees. We also have an online portal where people post study guides for others to use and often times people will just email out to their classmates what they have come up with. I don't have a spouse or kids but I do know that many times my classmates would meet up with their families for lunch in our commons area or over at the hospital cafeteria.
 
For future applicants both DMU and KCOM are family friendly, which really doesn't apply to me since I am not married and do not have kids. I think if you have young kids KCOM is better due to the presence of a lactation room on campus, safer city, and social groups for spouses. For people with older kids DMU is more appealing due to academic and extra curricular opportunities that exist in Des Moines.

Questions about rotations:
I did not see pathology as a required rotation during your 3rd year. I know at KCOM you get 8 weeks of electives during your third year. How difficult is it to get a pathology rotation during this 8 weeks? What are the common electives you and your fellow students take?


During your third year are you required to pick only one rotation site from the list of potential locations or can you choose to do multiple locations? http://www.atsu.edu/kcom/clinical_rotations/index.htm

During you fourth year are do you set up roation sites on your own or does KCOM have some locations already set up for you to rotate at

If any DMU students know how the fourth year rotations work please let me know.

THANKS!
 
For KCOM -- You pick a single core site for both years 3 and 4, and do all your required rotations there. I don't know much about the elective rotation process, but I'm pretty sure you can go wherever you are able.
 
napsilan said:
For KCOM -- You pick a single core site for both years 3 and 4, and do all your required rotations there. I don't know much about the elective rotation process, but I'm pretty sure you can go wherever you are able.
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Is the single core site the same location for years 3 and 4?
 
CpGisland said:
Questions about rotations:
I did not see pathology as a required rotation during your 3rd year. I know at KCOM you get 8 weeks of electives during your third year. How difficult is it to get a pathology rotation during this 8 weeks? What are the common electives you and your fellow students take?


During your third year are you required to pick only one rotation site from the list of potential locations or can you choose to do multiple locations? http://www.atsu.edu/kcom/clinical_rotations/index.htm

During you fourth year are do you set up roation sites on your own or does KCOM have some locations already set up for you to rotate at

If any DMU students know how the fourth year rotations work please let me know.

THANKS!
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For third and fourth year you pick one rotation site as your base site. I'm currently at one of the MI sites. For your third year you do all but the 8 weeks of elective at that site. The electives are anything your heart desires and you can go anywhere for them. I do know that pathology can be a bit more difficult to find as its not a very popular specialty in general, but the people I know that have wanted to do one, have found one.

In fourth year you have four rotations that are required at your base site and the remainder of the year is up to you to set up and you can go anywhere in the world if you want.
 
Why dont you flip a coin... what ever side you hope its gonna land on pick that school... :idea::idea::idea:
 
I did not apply to KCOM, but I have only heard positive things in regards to their program. But I would go DMU if I was you. As already mentioned in this thread that school has great technology, great professors, not to mention the Des Moines is 1000x better than Kirksville.
 
Could any current KCOM students who have recently gone through the "new" curriculum give me your input:

How exactly the block system was setup. How many weeks are in a block? Are the cumulative tests at the end of each block or semester? I would greatly appreciate any additional information you have regarding the curriculum.
 
CpGisland said:
Could any current KCOM students who have recently gone through the "new" curriculum give me your input:

How exactly the block system was setup. How many weeks are in a block? Are the cumulative tests at the end of each block or semester? I would greatly appreciate any additional information you have regarding the curriculum.
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I'm not a current student, but I have talked to the curriculum head over at KCOM and also done a little research. It's not fresh in my mind, but I hope this is correct. Their goal is to have something that looks like what they have going on at SOMArizona, but are in the process of transitioning over to it. The block system is a systems-based curriculum, so in different classes you will learn about the same organ systems so you can make some connections. Tests are ~3weeks. Think there are a few within every block.
The students that eat lunch with you during interviews said that the implementation was a little rough, but they like the new set up better.

ATSU being such a grounded school, I'd bet the curriculum is no less solid.. esp since they have experience with a full systems-based curriculum at their Arizona campus.
 
+1 and I have spoken with a current KCOM student and they seem to like it and said that they think the rough part (if there was one) of the transition is over.
 
Is DMU also on a block schedule? How is their curriculum designed?
 
avabio said:
Is DMU also on a block schedule? How is their curriculum designed?
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DMU is not block schedules. They have a traditional curriculum during the first year - you take things like A&P, biochem, pharm on its own and have tests whenever the professor decides. The 2nd year is systems based, but I'm not sure if its blocks or not.
Again, hope someone can affirm this since it's been a while.
 
hmainn said:
DMU is not block schedules. They have a traditional curriculum during the first year - you take things like A&P, biochem, pharm on its own and have tests whenever the professor decides. The 2nd year is systems based, but I'm not sure if its blocks or not.
Again, hope someone can affirm this since it's been a while.
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Correct on the setup. It is not block testing first or second year. First year, it is usually one or two tests a week. Second year is just a lot of tests though I think they are reordering some of the curriculum for my class next year to make it a little more easier.
 
Badgers326 said:
Correct on the setup. It is not block testing first or second year. First year, it is usually one or two tests a week. Second year is just a lot of tests though I think they are reordering some of the curriculum for my class next year to make it a little more easier.
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Ok, I'm glad I had it correct 🙂

So it seems there are three main ways a school curriculum can be set up in terms of systems based. (spectrum)
Traditional curriculum - UW (allopathic)
Trad/Systems - DMU
Full Systems - ATSU SOMA

And I know for fact that UW is reviewing and restructuring their curriculum soon. Not sure if they are restructuring to become systems-based, but that's my guess.

There are multiple threads comparing the different curricula, and the agreement is that either way you go, you have pros/cons.
 
Badgers326 said:
Correct on the setup. It is not block testing first or second year. First year, it is usually one or two tests a week. Second year is just a lot of tests though I think they are reordering some of the curriculum for my class next year to make it a little more easier.
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I like the sound of that. 👍
 
Badgers326 said:
Correct on the setup. It is not block testing first or second year. First year, it is usually one or two tests a week. Second year is just a lot of tests though I think they are reordering some of the curriculum for my class next year to make it a little more easier.
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Did you feel as though this was overload? Also how many classes do you have a semster (or quarter) at DMU?
 
CpGisland said:
Did you feel as though this was overload? Also how many classes do you have a semster (or quarter) at DMU?
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I think DMU does a pretty good job at starting you off slowly and slowly building up the pace. At times it is difficult, but this is med school and isn't supposed to be a cake walk. We are about to enter a very rough stretch of exams/practicals/presentation, but once it is over we will only have two more exams left for the year. There is plenty of support to get help if you need.

As for classes, it is hard to explain. Classes start and end at random times throughout the semester. They are as long as they need to be. This is the best way to explain: http://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/DO-Strip-Chart.jpg
 
iliketoytles said:
here's a great post from a current first year dmu student. Very informative! 🙂

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12328264&postcount=1259
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thanks!

badgers326 said:
i think dmu does a pretty good job at starting you off slowly and slowly building up the pace. At times it is difficult, but this is med school and isn't supposed to be a cake walk. We are about to enter a very rough stretch of exams/practicals/presentation, but once it is over we will only have two more exams left for the year. There is plenty of support to get help if you need.

As for classes, it is hard to explain. Classes start and end at random times throughout the semester. They are as long as they need to be. This is the best way to explain: http://www.dmu.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/do-strip-chart.jpg
Click to expand...

thanks!
 
Kind of related, but are DMU and ATSU-KCOM both systems based pre-clinicals?
 
KCOM has shifted more towards systems based recently
 
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