DNP Curricula

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

A BSN plus one of these curricula is all it takes to legitimately refer to yourself as "Dr. ___" in a clinical setting. With a full 5-6 hours of pathophysiology and other challenging courses like "Grantsmanship" and "Interpreting Health Policy" I think it's fair to treat this as an equivalent to an MD or DO.

http://nursing.uw.edu/sites/default/files/files/FNP-Curriculum-Grid.pdf

http://nursing.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/docs/curriculum/ANP FT DNP.pdf

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[ManOfRice]

A BSN plus one of these curricula is all it takes to legitimately refer to yourself as "Dr. ___" in a clinical setting. With a full 5-6 hours of pathophysiology and other challenging courses like "Grantsmanship" and "Interpreting Health Policy" I think it's fair to treat this as an equivalent to an MD or DO.

http://nursing.uw.edu/sites/default/files/files/FNP-Curriculum-Grid.pdf

http://nursing.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/docs/curriculum/ANP FT DNP.pdf

dude. stop.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

dude. stop.

Stop what exactly?

It's difficult to understand the chasm that separates these two paths without looking at both in detail.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

don't be so insecure

 

[milkandcereal]

Stop what exactly?

It's difficult to understand the chasm that separates these two paths without looking at both in detail.

There's no need to bash on another profession/degree. It comes off as insecure; I'm sure plenty of people work hard to get their BSNs and DNPs and wouldn't appreciate a high-and-mighty pre-med ****ting on their education.

 

[487806]

Stop what exactly?

It's difficult to understand the chasm that separates these two paths without looking at both in detail.

It's actually meaningless. Way to stir up trouble.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

There's no need to bash on another profession/degree. It comes off as insecure; I'm sure plenty of people work hard to get their BSNs and DNPs and wouldn't appreciate a high-and-mighty pre-med ****ting on their education.

Plenty of people work hard to finish concrete, but they don't function as MD-equivalents in clinical settings.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Why not go post this on the nursing forums? I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Most DNPs I know aren't comfortable being called Dr., and I'm sure that's prevalent among the general DNP population as well (also other medical professions that's get a doctorate). Just because a few outspoken ones are making a big deal doesn't mean you should go about making sarcastic and derogatory statements about their training and what they do.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Most DNPs I know aren't comfortable being called Dr., and I'm sure that's prevalent among the general DNP population as well (also other medical professions that's get a doctorate). Just because a few outspoken ones are making a big deal doesn't mean you should go about making sarcastic and derogatory statements about their training and what they do.

How are you sure?

I'm not sure either way, but every DNP I have ever run across as a patient (~4) has referred to herself as "Dr. __". I think it's misleading and diminishes the value of the MD/DO, especially once you look at the curricula. I thought others might be interested in the specifics, but instead they seem to prefer this:

 

[BSNtoMD]

Plenty of people work hard to finish concrete, but they don't function as MD-equivalents in clinical settings.

I'm sorry in what clinical setting do they function as MD-equivalents?

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

I'm sorry in what clinical setting do they function as MD-equivalents?

I'm referring to the ~18 states where NPs can diagnose, treat, and prescribe without physician oversight.

 

[Doctor Strange]

How are you sure?

I'm not sure either way, but every DNP I have ever run across as a patient (~4) has referred to herself as "Dr. __". I think it's misleading and diminishes the value of the MD/DO, especially once you look at the curricula. I thought others might be interested in the specifics, but instead they seem to prefer this:

Why pick on just DNPs then? Plenty of PharmDs, DPTs, and other doctorate level professionals refer to themselves as Dr. However, I went to a healthcare professionals school and knew a lot of people in these programs; the vast majority of them don't want to be called Dr.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it as long as it's made clear who the professional is. "Hi, I'm Dr. So and So and I'll be your pharmacist/nurse practitioner/physical therapist/doctor/what-have-you. Patients aren't stupid; if they want to see an NP over an MD, then that's their decision.

 

[BSNtoMD]

How are you sure?

I'm not sure either way, but every DNP I have ever run across as a patient (~4) has referred to herself as "Dr. __". I think it's misleading and diminishes the value of the MD/DO, especially once you look at the curricula. I thought others might be interested in the specifics, but instead they seem to prefer this:

The majority of NPs and BSN nurse disagree with the DNP model. Some I have spoken with believe it is over professionalization of a mid-level provider profession. Many do not want to confuse patients and will explain. In addition I feel that many DNPs did the additional semesters for academia purposes, as it is "easier" to complete than a PhD. The only DNPs I have encountered have been heavily involved with academia. I'm sure there are a few that wanted to be referred to as Dr. Soandso for egotistical purposes and fail to elaborate on their exact role in the patients care.

 

[SpecterGT260]

It's actually meaningless. Way to stir up trouble.

Wait until you have a BSN (little to no pathophys, it is more a functional/practical education in providing care and focuses to a small degree on theory and underlying mechanisms) who took a few teambuilding courses and some intro to health admin courses suddenly claim to be a noctor, throw your education under the buss, and claim equivalency (irritating) and demand the same prescription powers (terrifying).

sometimes these things don't come from a place of insecurity but rather a realization of the sheer lunacy of the potential goings-on in healthcare.

That said I have no idea if the OP is an insecure noobsauce. He very well might be

 

[SpecterGT260]

The majority of NPs and BSN nurse disagree with the DNP model. Some I have spoken with believe it is over professionalization of a mid-level provider profession. Many do not want to confuse patients and will explain. In addition I feel that many DNPs did the additional semesters for academia purposes, as it is "easier" to complete than a PhD. The only DNPs I have encountered have been heavily involved with academia. I'm sure there are a few that wanted to be referred to as Dr. Soandso for egotistical purposes and fail to elaborate on their exact role in the patients care.

I appreciate those people. The individuals are not (always) responsible for what their group has done. However there remains a minority in pretty much every mid-level group that stamps their feet and holds their breath and demands equal recognition to someone else. Those people are annoying.

 

[deleted307836]

This thread has been rehashed many times on this site. Does it really need to be brought up repeatedly?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

dude. stop.

He does bring up a valid point though.
While the generation of current DNPs may not largely demand to be called Dr. _____, the ones of this generation ( nursing students ) will.

As someone who has dated nursing students, they do tend to think that their DNP degree is equivalent if not superior and more versatile to the MD/DO.

I think this is a good topic for a healthy debate, but lets stop with the name calling. If you have a problem, refute this claims with evidence rather than call him ignorant.

You can check out the allNurses forum and you will see that those students vehemently think they are better than doctors ( because they care about the patients and doctors are just there to make money ).

 

[BSNtoMD]

I appreciate those people. The individuals are not (always) responsible for what their group has done. However there remains a minority in pretty much every mid-level group that stamps their feet and holds their breath and demands equal recognition to someone else. Those people are annoying.

Those are just the vary few that wanted to be physicians but couldn't/wouldn't do it. Those people are dangerous because they begin to overstep their scope of practice. The point is don't knock other professions kids. Stay in your lane, the DNPs won't be hurting anything besides egos. What I would be worried about are the BSN graduates going straight into FNP programs without a day of out of school experience. Then once finishing FNP programs going to work in ACUTE care settings. Something the FNP wasn't meant for. IMO this is something to be more concerned about.

 

[Temperature101]

A BSN plus one of these curricula is all it takes to legitimately refer to yourself as "Dr. ___" in a clinical setting. With a full 5-6 hours of pathophysiology and other challenging courses like "Grantsmanship" and "Interpreting Health Policy" I think it's fair to treat this as an equivalent to an MD or DO.

http://nursing.uw.edu/sites/default/files/files/FNP-Curriculum-Grid.pdf

http://nursing.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/docs/curriculum/ANP FT DNP.pdf

I had one who told me their 'education' is better than MD/DO because they teach them to think outside of the box... she was offended because I laughed...

 

[SpecterGT260]

Those are just the vary few that wanted to be physicians but couldn't/wouldn't do it. Those people are dangerous because they begin to overstep their scope of practice. The point is don't knock other professions kids. Stay in your lane, the DNPs won't be hurting anything besides egos. What I would be worried about are the BSN graduates going straight into FNP programs without a day of out of school experience. Then once finishing FNP programs going to work in ACUTE care settings. Something the FNP wasn't meant for. IMO this is something to be more concerned about.

I dont know what an FNP is... I was under the impression that all NP curricula was moving towards the "doctorate".

But I just wanted to point out that the 2 bolded statements are contradictory. The older NPs who had to practice for years before going on will, with minor exception, know the boundaries of their training and abilities. If the model goes to one with fresh BSN grads going into the DNP programs, they may not have the practical knowledge of one's limitations and it is the patients that suffer.

 

[deleted307836]

I think BSNtoMD's point was that new NP's with no nursing experience are unsafe in general, whether MS or DNP prepared - especially if an FNP in an acute care setting (FNP = family nurse practitioner, ACNP = acute care nurse practitioner).

The difference between a DNP and MS nurse practitioner is where the "ego-hurting" ability is perhaps the most significant.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I think BSNtoMD's point was that new NP's with no nursing experience are unsafe in general, whether MS or DNP prepared - especially if an FNP in an acute care setting (FNP = family nurse practitioner, ACNP = acute care nurse practitioner).

The difference between a DNP and MS nurse practitioner is where the "ego-hurting" ability is perhaps the most significant.

There is just no need for all of those letters

 

[Temperature101]

Those are just the vary few that wanted to be physicians but couldn't/wouldn't do it. Those people are dangerous because they begin to overstep their scope of practice. The point is don't knock other professions kids. Stay in your lane, the DNPs won't be hurting anything besides egos. What I would be worried about are the BSN graduates going straight into FNP programs without a day of out of school experience. Then once finishing FNP programs going to work in ACUTE care settings. Something the FNP wasn't meant for. IMO this is something to be more concerned about.

Some of them do since there is no requirements to get any type of experience before getting admitted to an NP program... I had a classmate who did that and working now...

 

[BSNtoMD]

I dont know what an FNP is... I was under the impression that all NP curricula was moving towards the "doctorate".

But I just wanted to point out that the 2 bolded statements are contradictory. The older NPs who had to practice for years before going on will, with minor exception, know the boundaries of their training and abilities. If the model goes to one with fresh BSN grads going into the DNP programs, they may not have the practical knowledge of one's limitations and it is the patients that suffer.

Not all of NPs are DNPs and they most likely never will be. With that said despite what you may think, not all DNPs want to be physicians. Understandably you probably do not know much about nursing or nursing education. So, no not all programs are moving to the DNP. The ANA and other organizations are pushing for DNP to be the entrance education for NPs to practice. But they have not been successful in the attempt to make the DNP required. Originally their goal was by 2015 to have programs transitioned. This is not happening so they have pushed the new goal back to I think 2025 ( don't quote me on that I would have to look it up again). With so many other nurses disagreeing with the DNP model it is unlikely that it will ever become the standard.
FNP stands for family nurse practitioner, this is different from and acute care nurse practitioner. The FNP is designed for primary care type of setting, whereas the acute care nurse practitioner and its specializations like neonatal, geriatric, ect. Are designed for the acute (hospital) care setting.
I completely understand how my statements can come across as contradictory when one is not familiar with nursing education. Hope this clears it up.

 

[deleted307836]

There is just no need for all of those letters

Why not? Since NP training is considerably less than physician training, wouldn't it make sense for NP's to train for more specific roles?

 

[BSNtoMD]

I think BSNtoMD's point was that new NP's with no nursing experience are unsafe in general, whether MS or DNP prepared - especially if an FNP in an acute care setting (FNP = family nurse practitioner, ACNP = acute care nurse practitioner).

The difference between a DNP and MS nurse practitioner is where the "ego-hurting" ability is perhaps the most significant.

This is exactly what I was trying to saying

 

[SpecterGT260]

Not all of NPs are DNPs and they most likely never will be. With that said despite what you may think, not all DNPs want to be physicians. Understandably you probably do not know much about nursing or nursing education. So, no not all programs are moving to the DNP. The ANA and other organizations are pushing for DNP to be the entrance education for NPs to practice.this is what I was saying... not sure where the other stuff came from But they have not been successful in the attempt to make the DNP required. Originally their goal was by 2015 to have programs transitioned. This is not happening so they have pushed the new goal back to I think 2025 ( don't quote me on that I would have to look it up again). With so many other nurses disagreeing with the DNP model it is unlikely that it will ever become the standard.
FNP stands for family nurse practitioner, this is different from and acute care nurse practitioner. The FNP is designed for primary care type of setting, whereas the acute care nurse practitioner and its specializations like neonatal, geriatric, ect. Are designed for the acute (hospital) care setting.
I completely understand how my statements can come across as contradictory when one is not familiar with nursing education. Hope this clears it up.

have you been reading anything I have said?

Bold doesn't mesh with my statements
italic/red/underline for explanation.

 

[BSNtoMD]

have you been reading anything I have said?

Bold doesn't mesh with my statements
italic/red/underline for explanation.

Ugh there is so much to explain to you here. Too much to type up on my phone. The nurse practitioner model is based on the fact the the nurses coming into the program have practical knowledge and judgmental expertise that they gain from working at a nurse. Now some FNP programs are allowing people to enter without any nursing experience. Therefore it is dangerous because they don't have the clinical expertise that a nurse with experience would have. It has nothing to do with the DNP versus the masters.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I was under the impression that more and more DNPs are able to go straight in without practicing first. If this isn't the case then what you are saying is relevant. If it is the case, then you aren't reading my posts.

Basically I was saying that I find both the DNPs, NP, and xxNPs to be *potentially* damaging, and I was already very careful to explicitly state that I didn't believe all nurses want to be doctors. You seem to have missed that part.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

He does bring up a valid point though.
While the generation of current DNPs may not largely demand to be called Dr. _____, the ones of this generation ( nursing students ) will.

As someone who has dated nursing students, they do tend to think that their DNP degree is equivalent if not superior and more versatile to the MD/DO.

I think this is a good topic for a healthy debate, but lets stop with the name calling. If you have a problem, refute this claims with evidence rather than call him ignorant.

You can check out the allNurses forum and you will see that those students vehemently think they are better than doctors ( because they care about the patients and doctors are just there to make money ).

allnurses probably represent nurses about as well as sdn does doctors, just sayin

 

[deleted307836]

I was under the impression that more and more DNPs are able to go straight in without practicing first. If this isn't the case then what you are saying is relevant. If it is the case, then you aren't reading my posts.

I can't find anything that supports this. Nurses have been going straight to NP school for a while (which I agree doesn't sound particularly safe), so I don't think it's DNP specific (BSNtoMD's main point, I think).

 

[SpecterGT260]

I can't find anything that supports this. Nurses have been going straight to NP school for a while (which I agree doesn't sound particularly safe), so I don't think it's DNP specific (BSNtoMD's main point, I think).

I guess I am a little lost as to where the confusion is coming from.

1) nurses in general are able to go straight to NP
2) the ANA is pushing to make DNP the only "NP"
therefore
3) in a not completely unreasonable future reality, DNPs as a whole will be much more likely to be practicing without any prior work experience.

I'm not making it specific to any particular group. The reality is that it is not only possible for various types of NP to practice with no experience between undergrad and graduate training, it is becoming more and more common. From a functional standpoint, I don't think DNPs have practice rights that aren't shared by NPs so the distinction isn't terribly important to the point I was making. I believe BSNtoMD and I have been agreeing on most things... he/she just isn't reading it that way.

 

[Koalafied]

A BSN plus one of these curricula is all it takes to legitimately refer to yourself as "Dr. ___" in a clinical setting. With a full 5-6 hours of pathophysiology and other challenging courses like "Grantsmanship" and "Interpreting Health Policy" I think it's fair to treat this as an equivalent to an MD or DO.

http://nursing.uw.edu/sites/default/files/files/FNP-Curriculum-Grid.pdf

http://nursing.buffalo.edu/Portals/0/docs/curriculum/ANP FT DNP.pdf

Spend a week working as a nurse of any type at any ICU, and I am sure opinion will drastically change.

(https://nursing.uth.edu/prospstudent/dnp/default.htm) I think getting opinions from these five-gorgeous women would be more valid than from any of us here.

 

[487806]

Wait until you have a BSN (little to no pathophys, it is more a functional/practical education in providing care and focuses to a small degree on theory and underlying mechanisms) who took a few teambuilding courses and some intro to health admin courses suddenly claim to be a noctor, throw your education under the buss, and claim equivalency (irritating) and demand the same prescription powers (terrifying).

sometimes these things don't come from a place of insecurity but rather a realization of the sheer lunacy of the potential goings-on in healthcare.

That said I have no idea if the OP is an insecure noobsauce. He very well might be

Does that really happen? I heard that's hardly the case when I was browsing through the general residency forums, but I could be wrong. Though on the gas forums, there's always the CRNA vs MD debate...

 

[SpecterGT260]

Spend a week working as a nurse of any type at any ICU, and I am sure opinion will drastically change.

(https://nursing.uth.edu/prospstudent/dnp/default.htm) I think getting opinions from these five-gorgeous women would be more valid than from any of us here.

it was a little confusing because their links for the PhD and DNP are mis-linked (to each other ) but this school needs 1 year experience. However I don't think this is universal. IIRC a few programs I've looked at will take a masters level training in lieu of clinical experience.

Just FYI as it relates to my post above.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Those are just the vary few that wanted to be physicians but couldn't/wouldn't do it. Those people are dangerous because they begin to overstep their scope of practice. The point is don't knock other professions kids. Stay in your lane, the DNPs won't be hurting anything besides egos. What I would be worried about are the BSN graduates going straight into FNP programs without a day of out of school experience. Then once finishing FNP programs going to work in ACUTE care settings. Something the FNP wasn't meant for. IMO this is something to be more concerned about.

Actually, they already are... There was an article not too long ago where NPs and DNPs were demanding the same level of reimbursement as physicians from insurers. If they are not as qualified as physicians, then why make the demand?

I think there is a shift to have all nurses obtain a doctorate in the near future. Dont really remember what date. The ANA stated that there is no difference in the competence between an NP and a DNP. So the question to ask is whats the point of the degree other than just the title for a doctorate?

I had one who told me their 'education' is better than MD/DO because they teach them to think outside of the box... she was offended because I laughed...

Yea I've run across those types too that try to justify their education being superior. I asked her how her 4 year program (2 college 2 nursing school) is superior to a doctors 12 years ( 4 college 4 med 4 avg residency)... Her answer... " they use their time wisely"

allnurses probably represent nurses about as well as sdn does doctors, just sayin

The difference is that they dont accept the fact that doctors have larger responsibilities and are the leaders in providing medical care to a patient.

 

[BSNtoMD]

I guess I am a little lost as to where the confusion is coming from.

1) nurses in general are able to go straight to NP
2) the ANA is pushing to make DNP the only "NP"
therefore
3) in a not completely unreasonable future reality, DNPs as a whole will be much more likely to be practicing without any prior work experience.

I'm not making it specific to any particular group. The reality is that it is not only possible for various types of NP to practice with no experience between undergrad and graduate training, it is becoming more and more common. From a functional standpoint, I don't think DNPs have practice rights that aren't shared by NPs so the distinction isn't terribly important to the point I was making. I believe BSNtoMD and I have been agreeing on most things... he/she just isn't reading it that way.

No I am agreeing with most of what you are saying I think you got confused when I tried to change the direction of the conversation. Originally in my first reply I was trying to say that we should be less concerned about the push for the doctorate and be more concerned about NPs who have NO experience what's so ever. Remember they do not have any type of residencies (typically) to ease their way into practice after that 2 years they are free to practice with only the experience they gained in school. At least with the acute care nurse practitioner they are required to have experience, most family nurse practitioner programs require little to no experience. I disagree with the nurse practitioner model, thus why I am not going that route. The reasons I disagree with the model has a very small amount to do with the DNP and more to do with the lack of experience and the loop holes in many programs. So yes I do agree with most of your opinions, but I don't think anyone should be worrying about the doctorate being pushed. I myself don't see it becoming the standard. It seems you've run into some
DNPs who try to pretend to be physicians. Like a previous poster responded I think DNPs should introduce themselves as Dr. Soandso, the nurse practitioner, not I am Dr. Soandso. Misleading the patient to believe you are a physician is fraudulent. I believe that nurse practitioners are a great addition to the healthcare system, but they should be used for their natural intention.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

The difference is that they dont accept the fact that doctors have larger responsibilities and are the leaders in providing medical care to a patient.

Any many SDNers don't accept the fact that nurses share a huge burden of the responsibilities and on occasion (yes, even regular RNs) may take the lead on medical care/advocacy. Let's not engage in histrionics lumping entire fora of people into monoliths.

Besides, you're redirecting from my actual point.

 

[deleted307836]

Any many SDNers don't accept the fact that nurses share a huge burden of the responsibilities and on occasion (yes, even regular RNs) may take the lead on medical care/advocacy. Let's not engage in histrionics lumping entire fora of people into monoliths.

Besides, you're redirecting from my actual point.

Hey, gandalf has dated nursing students. He knows what he's talking about.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Any many SDNers don't accept the fact that nurses share a huge burden of the responsibilities and on occasion (yes, even regular RNs) may take the lead on medical care/advocacy. Let's not engage in histrionics lumping entire fora of people into monoliths.

Besides, you're redirecting from my actual point.

RNs rock.

 

[deleted407021]

Thanks for he giant ostrich man picks, my ipad is freaking out.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Any many SDNers don't accept the fact that nurses share a huge burden of the responsibilities and on occasion (yes, even regular RNs) may take the lead on medical care/advocacy. Let's not engage in histrionics lumping entire fora of people into monoliths.

Besides, you're redirecting from my actual point.

No one here is claiming that they dont have a large responsibility in providing care for the patient. and yes there are charge nurses that are in charge of managing other RNs. But the medical team in charge of treating the patient is spearheaded by a doctor.

At the end of the day, the physician not the nurse is responsible for the health of the patient because it is the doctor who is prescribing the medication and treatment protocol. The nurse is the one carrying it out.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Hey, gandalf has dated nursing students. He knows what he's talking about.

Dated*

Past tense. Their egos are larger than some practicing physicians
Dont have time for that.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Hey, gandalf has dated nursing students. He knows what he's talking about.

clearly

RNs rock.

by and large

No one here is claiming that they dont have a large responsibility in providing care for the patient. and yes there are charge nurses that are in charge of managing other RNs. But the medical team in charge of treating the patient is spearheaded by a doctor.

At the end of the day, the physician not the nurse is responsible for the health of the patient because it is the doctor who is prescribing the medication and treatment protocol. The nurse is the one carrying it out.

You again missed my point, and I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring what I'm saying or if you're just a bit oblivious to the world of inpatient care. RNs have judgment too, and MDs rely on them to to exercise it to help assess the efficacy of the treatment plan.

Guys and gals, we're all on the same team here. Simmer the fck down about this issue. RNs are our friends (many exceptions, of course), and NPs mostly aren't out to get err jerrbs, and frankly if you're worried about patient confusion let me assuage you with the simple truth that patients will confuse a mop handle for a physician if a scrub top is draped over it.

Dated*

Past tense. Their egos are larger than some practicing physicians
Dont have time for that.

pot kettle black

 

[BSNtoMD]

Actually, they already are... There was an article not too long ago where NPs and DNPs were demanding the same level of reimbursement as physicians from insurers. If they are not as qualified as physicians, then why make the demand?

I think there is a shift to have all nurses obtain a doctorate in the near future. Dont really remember what date. The ANA stated that there is no difference in the competence between an NP and a DNP. So the question to ask is whats the point of the degree other than just the title for a doctorate?




Yea I've run across those types too that try to justify their education being superior. I asked her how her 4 year program (2 college 2 nursing school) is superior to a doctors 12 years ( 4 college 4 med 4 avg residency)... Her answer... " they use their time wisely"



The difference is that they dont accept the fact that doctors have larger responsibilities and are the leaders in providing medical care to a patient.

If you read previously the ANA may want this but it is not going to happen. They originally said all programs will be translated to DNP programs by 2015. But look here at this
http://admissions.nursing.ufl.edu/files/2011/06/MSN_Exit_Option_Extto2020.pdf
It's not happening by 2015, because significant progression was not achieved.
As for the reimbursement, I agree with you. Nurse practitioners will never be physicians is my point, unless they go to med school of course

 

[deleted307836]

At the end of the day, the physician not the nurse is responsible for the health of the patient because it is the doctor who is prescribing the medication and treatment protocol. The nurse is the one carrying it out.

I think RU brings up a good point though. Just as allnurses would engage in hyperbole, exaggeration, and overly generalized statements, so too will SDN - and frankly I think you're guilty of it multiple times in this thread. I would argue that nurses are also responsible for the health of the patient. Try telling a critical care nurse otherwise, while she's titrating vasoactive drips to effectiveness in a fresh surgical patient while monitoring for complications. The roles of the physician and the nurse are very different, but the responsibility for the health of the patient is, from what I can tell, a shared responsibility.

 

[BSNtoMD]

I THOROUGHLY researched the NP route prior to making my decision towards physician. When I began looking at this site a while ago I was surprised at the lack of knowledge regarding nursing and the oppositional opinions towards nursing. On the other hand many nurses are uneducated about physicians and their training. I really hope to bridge this gap. They are COMPLETELY different professions in health care that need each other in order to provide the best care. Love thy nurse Love thy physician

 

[Koalafied]

If yawlz not treating your nurse(s) properly, your going to have an abysmal time in med school, residency, and where ever you end up. Plain and simple.

 

[BSNtoMD]

clearly

by and large


You again missed my point, and I'm not sure if you're willfully ignoring what I'm saying or if you're just a bit oblivious to the world of inpatient care. RNs have judgment too, and MDs rely on them to to exercise it to help assess the efficacy of the treatment plan.

Guys and gals, we're all on the same team here. Simmer the fck down about this issue. RNs are our friends (many exceptions, of course), and NPs mostly aren't out to get err jerrbs, and frankly if you're worried about patient confusion let me assuage you with the simple truth that patients will confuse a mop handle for a physician if a scrub top is draped over it.

pot kettle black

Bahaha this is true about patients they even mistake cleaning people with scrubs on for physicians.
Think of nurses as the eyes and ears of physicians in the hospital, they are the ones calling to let them know, hey your patient isn't doing so hot.