DO 4th Year Rotations

[Mr. Babe]

I know we have been given the guideline of one away rotation, but what about students at DO schools that usually go out of state for 4th year rotations? Are there any schools that are forcing students to stay in their respective school's states or at least the area where their 3rd year rotations are? Last year, students from my school traveled to other states and called that their "home" state so that no rotations in that state were considered away. Just curious what other schools have done and are doing.

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[Chibucks15]

I know we have been given the guideline of one away rotation, but what about students at DO schools that usually go out of state for 4th year rotations? Are there any schools that are forcing students to stay in their respective school's states or at least the area where their 3rd year rotations are? Last year, students from my school traveled to other states and called that their "home" state so that no rotations in that state were considered away. Just curious what other schools have done and are doing.

There wasn’t really any restrictions on my school. I went to 2 aways in different states and there wasn’t an issue at all. You just gotta play by whatever PPE rules there is.

Now that PPE is more readily available I think life almost goes back to normal in the world of medical education. That’s the big reason we got pulled to begin with.

 

[unexpectedcomplications]

Is it common for OOS students to do 4th year roations near their "home"? Just so they can stay with family or a SO?

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Is it common for OOS students to do 4th year roations near their "home"? Just so they can stay with family or a SO?

Very common.

 

[Chibucks15]

Is it common for OOS students to do 4th year roations near their "home"? Just so they can stay with family or a SO?

That’s basically what I tried to do. Even friends or some other connection where you can stay for cheap/free is what you should look for if possible

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

That’s basically what I tried to do. Even friends or some other connection where you can stay for cheap/free is what you should look for if possible

Did you use clinican nexus? I am trying to use it but I am not seeing many open spots/rotations for the next academic year(2021-2022), is this because it’s still too early for next year?

 

[Chibucks15]

Did you use clinican nexus? I am trying to use it but I am not seeing many open spots/rotations for the next academic year(2021-2022), is this because it’s still too early for next year?

Nope. ERAS, my school, or cold emails. I also did mine during the initial COVID surge so definitely not the normal

 

[Billroth_III]

Mini thread hijack, hopefully it benefits someone other than myself in some way though.

What does a typical 3rd year/4th year look like when it comes to electives and auditions? Specifically in a field like a general surgery? Do you do strictly auditions or do you some electives as well? Genuine question because I do not know.

Oh yeah, asking for a friend...

 

[Prehealth1011]

Did you use clinican nexus? I am trying to use it but I am not seeing many open spots/rotations for the next academic year(2021-2022), is this because it’s still too early for next year?

Too early for some programs. They'll open them up at different times. I found the clinician nexus PCs to be very responsive. You can always shoot them an e-mail to find out the exact date when they plan to do it

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Too early for some programs. They'll open them up at different times. I found the clinician nexus PCs to be very responsive. You can always shoot them an e-mail to find out the exact date when they plan to do it

Thanks for the feedback

 

[_DeBakey_]

Mini thread hijack, hopefully it benefits someone other than myself in some way though.

What does a typical 3rd year/4th year look like when it comes to electives and auditions? Specifically in a field like a general surgery? Do you do strictly auditions or do you some electives as well? Genuine question because I do not know.

Oh yeah, asking for a friend...

You and me both lol

 

[Neopolymath]

Maybe @Spectreman or @RamsFan&FutureDO can help you two with your GS questions?

 

[PorkChopsOG]

Mini thread hijack, hopefully it benefits someone other than myself in some way though.

What does a typical 3rd year/4th year look like when it comes to electives and auditions? Specifically in a field like a general surgery? Do you do strictly auditions or do you some electives as well? Genuine question because I do not know.

Oh yeah, asking for a friend...

It's common to audition july to november/december. Usually 3-4 auditions total. You can get more by doing 2 week ones as well. I highly recommend having november to the end of 4th year being electives though. Working really hard doesn't go well with interview season and post match.

 

[_DeBakey_]

It's common to audition july to november/december. Usually 3-4 auditions total. You can get more by doing 2 week ones as well. I highly recommend having november to the end of 4th year being electives though. Working really hard doesn't go well with interview season and post match.

Depending how boards goes and some research/connections I can make, I was going to shoot for 0+5 VS, definitely keeping GS in mind too. What kind of electives would your recommend doing for GS and/or VS?

Thanks for the reply too

 

[SurgDoc95]

Mini thread hijack, hopefully it benefits someone other than myself in some way though.

What does a typical 3rd year/4th year look like when it comes to electives and auditions? Specifically in a field like a general surgery? Do you do strictly auditions or do you some electives as well? Genuine question because I do not know.

Oh yeah, asking for a friend...

If you're applying GS you should plan on a minimum of 3 auditions max of 7, but I would say unless you're very borderline stat wise I'd do about 5. I'd say to start researching programs that you'd like to audition at in November/December of 3rd year and plan to start applying as early as January for some of the former AOA programs.

3rd year I'd imagine won't be able to do auditions and even if you could you're better off doing an elective with a surgeon who can help you fine tune your skills and knowledgebase before heading into audition season.

Lets be real, if you're going into surgery you probably won't truly be able to relax until after you match, but definitely would advise taking it easy after audition season because you will be BURNT out if you bust your butt for 5-6 months. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Depending how boards goes and some research/connections I can make, I was going to shoot for 0+5 VS, definitely keeping GS in mind too. What kind of electives would your recommend doing for GS and/or VS?

Thanks for the reply too

If you are trying to go 0-5 VS then you will need to do at least 3 away rotations in VS.

Honestly GS doesn’t require auditions like the other surgical specialties, unless you are a borderline candidate or you just want to increase your interview yield. If you are a good enough for VS, then I would just do 1-2 sub-is for GS letters and then do 3 VS rotations to get VS letters.

And then apply to all VS programs and a healthy number of GS programs too.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

My school has said to continue as normal. I've sent out a ton of applications and am hoping to have July-feb planned by end of June

 

[_DeBakey_]

If you are trying to go 0-5 VS then you will need to do at least 3 away rotations in VS.

Honestly GS doesn’t require auditions like the other surgical specialties, unless you are a borderline candidate or you just want to increase your interview yield. If you are a good enough for VS, then I would just do 1-2 sub-is for GS letters and then do 3 VS rotations to get VS letters.

And then apply to all VS programs and a healthy number of GS programs too.

You're saying do 3 auditions in VS and 2 auditions in GS?

Sorry, the terminology kinda throws me lol.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You're saying do 3 auditions in VS and 2 auditions in GS?

Sorry, the terminology kinda throws me lol.

Depending on if you are a good applicant or not, ya. If you have high scores (240+/250+) then I would do as many VS auditions as you could, and only do one GS audition.

MDs don’t really call them auditions. They call them away rotations or sub-internships. In GS they use them for letters and such, or if they are trying to hit up on the prestige ladder. Only 1/33 people match where they audition in GS (traditionally MD places, obviously DO programs are different).

Sub-internships in vascular are functionally required because it’s such a small field.

 

[WhatIsGoingOn219]

My school has said to continue as normal. I've sent out a ton of applications and am hoping to have July-feb planned by end of June

Woahh my school hasn't even commented on anything! Or given us access to Vsas. Do you mind please sharing anything else helpful that your school said?

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Woahh my school hasn't even commented on anything! Or given us access to Vsas. Do you mind please sharing anything else helpful that your school said?

My school gave us access to vsas although they haven’t said anything about travel restrictions yet, the way they are talking, and the fact they gave us access, I believe we will be able to go on aways normally.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

My school has said to continue as normal. I've sent out a ton of applications and am hoping to have July-feb planned by end of June

I thought vsas said that applications for 2021-2022 open in May?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I thought vsas said that applications for 2021-2022 open in May?

Recommendations were to open in April, but each site can technically do whatever they want.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Recommendations were to open in April, but each site can technically do whatever they want.

Are there sites that are open right now for 2021-2022?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Are there sites that are open right now for 2021-2022?

Yes, a few. Many sites also don't work through VSAS and just have their own application, so you'll have to look up places you're interested in going and see how they work.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Yes, a few. Many sites also don't work through VSAS and just have their own application, so you'll have to look up places you're interested in going and see how they work.

Ahh I see.. thank you

 

[SLC]

That’s basically what I tried to do. Even friends or some other connection where you can stay for cheap/free is what you should look for if possible

i did almost my entire 4th year near home. My rotations were in hospitals and clinics owned by the company I now work for and were instrumental in me getting my job. I was recruited here as an intern based on word of mouth from the people I’d worked with as a 4th year.

 

[Chibucks15]

i did almost my entire 4th year near home. My rotations were in hospitals and clinics owned by the company I now work for and were instrumental in me getting my job. I was recruited here as an intern based on word of mouth from the people I’d worked with as a 4th year.

I legit have 2 job offers through rotations already and I haven't even matched yet. Doing rotations where you have footing makes an incredible difference.

EDIT: It may also be that being a midwest kid who wants to do neurology and wants to stay in the midwest is rare haha as soon as I say that demeanor completely changes. Hard to recruit people to the "undesirable" midwest ya know

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Woahh my school hasn't even commented on anything! Or given us access to Vsas. Do you mind please sharing anything else helpful that your school said?

My school really hasn't said anything super useful in regards to applying besides saying "y'all can still apply"

Biggest thing I found to be useful was stuff I did on my own, including:

1. See if where you want to rotate currently has rotations for the spring for application. Current third years cannot apply to these, but the documents they want will probably be the same for when they open up for us current third years to apply. By the time mine opened I basically had to do nothing but click submit because I had already gone through and uploaded all my documents to VSAS. some programs wants a quick blurb or personal statement, and I was able to have that all written up and proofread before applications opened.

2. Reach out to hospitals directly. I have reached out to several and they were all very receptive, some even telling me exactly when applications would open, which was different from the date they had listed on VSAS. Gave me another leg up when applying

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

My school really hasn't said anything super useful in regards to applying besides saying "y'all can still apply"

Biggest thing I found to be useful was stuff I did on my own, including:

1. See if where you want to rotate currently has rotations for the spring for application. Current third years cannot apply to these, but the documents they want will probably be the same for when they open up for us current third years to apply. By the time mine opened I basically had to do nothing but click submit because I had already gone through and uploaded all my documents to VSAS. some programs wants a quick blurb or personal statement, and I was able to have that all written up and proofread before applications opened.

2. Reach out to hospitals directly. I have reached out to several and they were all very receptive, some even telling me exactly when applications would open, which was different from the date they had listed on VSAS. Gave me another leg up when applying

how do you reach out? Do you email the program coordinator?

 

[ohmanwaddup]

how do you reach out? Do you email the program coordinator?

If you do a google search of "blah blah hospital visiting student 4th year electives" usually contact info will show up on the hospitals page. There is usually a specific 4th year visiting rotation person.

 

[Spectreman]

I know we have been given the guideline of one away rotation, but what about students at DO schools that usually go out of state for 4th year rotations? Are there any schools that are forcing students to stay in their respective school's states or at least the area where their 3rd year rotations are? Last year, students from my school traveled to other states and called that their "home" state so that no rotations in that state were considered away. Just curious what other schools have done and are doing.

This upcoming Year Nova is restricting everyone to 1 away rotation. The rest have to be done at your core site. So there’s that.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

This upcoming Year Nova is restricting everyone to 1 away rotation. The rest have to be done at your core site. So there’s that.

Well, you could always do a bunch of online electives on VSAS and be wherever you want.. so theres that too...
Or is NOVA only allowing ONE elective via VSAS in general even if its online?

 

[Spectreman]

Well, you could always do a bunch of online electives on VSAS and be wherever you want.. so theres that too...
Or is NOVA only allowing ONE elective via VSAS in general even if its online?

Honestly I don’t know for sure. This is what a 3rd year told me the other day. He made it sound like Nova will only let you TRAVEL once. So maybe a bunch of virtual things would be solid.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Honestly I don’t know for sure. This is what a 3rd year told me the other day. He made it sound like Nova will only let you TRAVEL once. So maybe a bunch of virtual things would be solid.

Yea I am not at NOVA and our school hasn't told us up front if they will follow the AAMC guidelines about one away rotation, virtual electives via VSAS was my plan if they followed the AAMC guidelines to a tee, that way I could be with my family/SO for the majority of the year..

 

[nooneyouknow]

Honestly I don’t know for sure. This is what a 3rd year told me the other day. He made it sound like Nova will only let you TRAVEL once. So maybe a bunch of virtual things would be solid.

This is wrong, I'm an M3 there. We have been told you can do as many as you want.

 

[Spectreman]

This is wrong, I'm an M3 there. We have been told you can do as many as you want.

Thanks for clarifying! I just came back to my core site for EM after doing 8 auditions and the comment about only one away this year was the first thing a 3rd year told me. There was a whole table of 3rd years in the lounge and they didn’t correct him so I assumed it was true.

 

[ohmanwaddup]

god if they decide to have things go to normal once they "reconsider" in April it could be an absolute bloodbath trying to get rotations and auditions.