DO (Accepted) or Post-Bacc

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shadow97

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Have been acceptance at a newer DO school (5 years old) for 2018, would like to know if Post-Bacc is a good idea. Am a Texas resident. sGPA 3.0, cGPA 2.97, have a C- in a prereq science course, will not be able to retake it. Will be graduating with a degree in Computer Science from a top school in Texas. MCAT 518 (Jan 2017). Thinking of doing "Master of Science Degree in Medical Sciences" at UNT if I don't get in to better DO school or a MD school. and re apply. UNT applications opens up in November, Classes start in Summer and will be done by 2019 fall, will apply for 2020 cycle. what do think, good or bad idea? will the post back help in getting me in to a better DO school or an MD school?
 
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Post-Bacc hands down. You have a stellar MCAT, and if you do well in your post-bacc, your options will be plentiful. I'm currently doing a post-bacc, and have been accepted already to my state school (MD) for 2018. Students from my current program usually place in the top 15% of their med-school/dent-school class. I cannot recommend post-bacc programs enough, so long as you put the work in and treat it very seriously.

P.S. explore other masters programs as well. You never know, you may find a fun, unique place to live for a year or 2.


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CamV said:
Post-Bacc hands down. You have a stellar MCAT, and if you do well in your post-bacc, your options will be plentiful. I'm currently doing a post-bacc, and have been accepted already to my state school (MD) for 2018. Students from my current program usually place in the top 15% of their med-school/dent-school class. I cannot recommend post-bacc programs enough, so long as you put the work in and treat it very seriously.

P.S. explore other masters programs as well. You never know, you may find a fun, unique place to live for a year or 2.


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which state school? which Post-Bacc program? PMed you, in case you did not want to put it here. Thanks
 
Why did you apply if you weren't planning on taking an acceptance?

I think you need to do some work to understand yourself, and why you are doing what you are doing. It seems a bit contradictory to not accept a position you applied for if you don't receive a better offer.

I would also look at the outcomes from the school you were accepted at. Remember, you have all the same privileges as anybody else once you graduate. I know plenty of doctors from "mediocre" D.O. schools that work alongside Wash U graduates.
 
Why did you apply to the school if you knew you didn't want to go there? Now you're putting yourself in the bad spot of rejecting an acceptance to medical school, which never looks good.

You have an awesome MCAT, but I don't think a masters program would be enough to lift your GPA up to MD standards. Enough to bring you up to par for "top" DOs, maybe....but, again, you stand a high chance of being blacklisted for turning down an acceptance. Not to be harsh, but you should have thought about this before applying to a school you really had zero interest in attending.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Why did you apply to the school if you knew you didn't want to go there? Now you're putting yourself in the bad spot of rejecting an acceptance to medical school, which never looks good.

You have an awesome MCAT, but I don't think a masters program would be enough to lift your GPA up to MD standards. Enough to bring you up to par for "top" DOs, maybe....but, again, you stand a high chance of being blacklisted for turning down an acceptance. Not to be harsh, but you should have thought about this before applying to a school you really had zero interest in attending.
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I've never heard that you will be blacklisted before this thread.

Is there a policy or is it more implicit?
 
Thor123422 said:
I've never heard that you will be blacklisted before this thread.

Is there a policy or is it more implicit?
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I believe more implicit, but admittedly I do not know too much about this. @Goro might be able to share his wisdom with us.
 
shadow97 said:
Have been acceptance at a newer DO school (5 years old) for 2018, would like to know if Post-Bacc is a good idea. Am a Texas resident. sGPA 3.0, cGPA 2.97, have a C- in a prereq science course, will not be able to retake it. Will be graduating with a degree in Computer Science from a top school in Texas. MCAT 518 (Jan 2017). Thinking of doing "Master of Science Degree in Medical Sciences" at UNT if I don't get in to better DO school or a MD school. and re apply. UNT applications opens up in November, Classes start in Summer and will be done by 2019 fall, will apply for 2020 cycle. what do think, good or bad idea? will the post back help in getting me in to a better DO school or an MD school?
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Yes, but being a Texan means OOS MD schools are pretty much off the table. they know from historic norms that Texans stay in TX, thanks to that low tuition!

If the school you're accepted to to is Touro NY or LUCOM, then turn down the accept and do the post-bac or SMP at TCOM. Otherwise, unless you absolutely hated the interview day st the accepting school, turn them down.
 
Another option: Defer a year at the DO school and do a post-bacc to try for MD. Classmate of mine did this and got into a low tier MD school (his MCAT was lower than yours but his GPA was higher).
 
Do you think you'll be able to blow the SMP out of the water? Your MCAT is good but won't carry you very far on its own for MD admissions. I'm mostly concerned that your 2.97s/3.0c in conjunction with a potentially mediocre SMP performance won't do you any favors. If you have real reasons to think you can do great at the SMP, go for it. You seem pretty set on not going to that DO program.

Just strongly consider that it's a lot more time and money (opportunity cost) to possibly ultimately end up in the same spot, or worse, in a couple years.

Edit: and are you confident you would be accepted to the SMP? I couldn't find explicit admissions requirements but I know your GPA would not meet minimum requirements for some.
 
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shadow97 said:
Have been acceptance at a newer DO school (5 years old) for 2018, would like to know if Post-Bacc is a good idea. Am a Texas resident. sGPA 3.0, cGPA 2.97, have a C- in a prereq science course, will not be able to retake it. Will be graduating with a degree in Computer Science from a top school in Texas. MCAT 518 (Jan 2017). Thinking of doing "Master of Science Degree in Medical Sciences" at UNT if I don't get in to better DO school or a MD school. and re apply. UNT applications opens up in November, Classes start in Summer and will be done by 2019 fall, will apply for 2020 cycle. what do think, good or bad idea? will the post back help in getting me in to a better DO school or an MD school?
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clearly you dont want the DO, and that's fine, I think many students prefer MD. normally i wouldnt say turn down an acceptance but with your MCAT i think by getting your GPA up, you're good for MD. an MCAT like that can open a lot of doors.

work your butt off in the post-bacc, ace the courses and apply MD, high tier DO.
 
shadow97 said:
Have been acceptance at a newer DO school (5 years old) for 2018, would like to know if Post-Bacc is a good idea. Am a Texas resident. sGPA 3.0, cGPA 2.97, have a C- in a prereq science course, will not be able to retake it. Will be graduating with a degree in Computer Science from a top school in Texas. MCAT 518 (Jan 2017). Thinking of doing "Master of Science Degree in Medical Sciences" at UNT if I don't get in to better DO school or a MD school. and re apply. UNT applications opens up in November, Classes start in Summer and will be done by 2019 fall, will apply for 2020 cycle. what do think, good or bad idea? will the post back help in getting me in to a better DO school or an MD school?
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Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure MD schools don't put a whole lot of stock in MS degrees. If you're gonna take the huge risk of turning down an acceptance, make sure the degree program you're going into will be enough to redeem your app. Personally, I wouldn't.
 
workaholic181 said:
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly sure MD schools don't put a whole lot of stock in MS degrees. If you're gonna take the huge risk of turning down an acceptance, make sure the degree program you're going into will be enough to redeem your app. Personally, I wouldn't.
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SMP/MS can be used interchangeably. What matters is you take MD courses. Even programs that only give certificates work provided, again, that you're enrolled in MD courses.

Good way to tell is to see if 1. They require a MCAT and 2. To check their course schedule: https://www.unthsc.edu/graduate-school-of-biomedical-sciences/degree-and-certificate-programs/
 
OP, I'd recommend doing the SMP. (but hopefully at an MD school) You have a stellar MCAT score and if you can get that, I think you can kill the SMP no prob. Being from Texas too you will be a rockstar applicant in-state. And as far as ppl giving you **** here about getting an acceptance and not knowing what you wanted, ignore it. Ppl change their minds and you are just re-evaluating what's best for you-- totally normal. Being in TEXAS is a huge perk here.

Also, contrary to popular belief, turning down a DO school doesn't "blacklist" you. You can simply state that you wanted to have a better foundation w/ an SMP before starting medical school to be more successful once you start. BAM. (esp. b/c of your computer science background). And trust me, with your MCAT and a good SMP, there will always be other schools willing to take you in (barring no red flags ex. DUI's etc.)
 
Completely depends on your career goals. I would heavily consider an SMP, but only one with a very strong history of putting its grads in MD programs like Cincinnati or Georgetown.

It was rather dumb to apply to a school you really didn't want to go to.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Completely depends on your career goals. I would heavily consider an SMP, but only one with a very strong history of putting its grads in MD programs like Cincinnati or Georgetown.

It was rather dumb to apply to a school you really didn't want to go to.
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Though typically these programs accept students that are pretty close to competitive already. The fact that the OP only has one DO acceptance to a newer program that they wouldn't attend is a little bit concerning to me. Georgetown has a minimum cGPA cutoff of 3.0 (avg. for admitted applicants is 3.3) and I expect Cincinnati is similar. So basically even the application to these programs might be a crapshoot. Another thing is that they're pretty darn expensive compared to in-state Texas tuition.
 
SpartanWolverine said:
Though typically these programs accept students that are pretty close to competitive already. The fact that the OP only has one DO acceptance to a newer program that they wouldn't attend is a little bit concerning to me. Georgetown has a minimum cGPA cutoff of 3.0 (avg. for admitted applicants is 3.3) and I expect Cincinnati is similar. So basically even the application to these programs might be a crapshoot. Another thing is that they're pretty darn expensive compared to in-state Texas tuition.
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We're still pretty fresh in the app cycle. OP probably will get more acceptances (depending upon how many schools they applied to).
 
MADD!!! said:
We're still pretty fresh in the app cycle. OP probably will get more acceptances (depending upon how many schools they applied to).
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Fair point. I'm a little distant from the app process and don't quite remember timelines. Would be helpful to hear how many applications/interviews the OP has still pending.
 
Do the SPM at UNT if you have the drive to obtain great grades and don't mind putting your head back into the noose of a high risk opportunity. It has a great reputation with the Texas public medical schools. I know of at least 15 people at my medical school that completed the program and are very successful.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Completely depends on your career goals. I would heavily consider an SMP, but only one with a very strong history of putting its grads in MD programs like Cincinnati or Georgetown.

It was rather dumb to apply to a school you really didn't want to go to.
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did not think about Post-Back at the time of applying. It was suggested by a few people, so exploring the option now. also I am not against DO, but worried about going newer school after reading some of the posts here.
 
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MADD!!! said:
We're still pretty fresh in the app cycle. OP probably will get more acceptances (depending upon how many schools they applied to).
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applied to very wide range of MD & DO schools. Just thinking If I should apply to UNT when the application cycle opens up. If I decide to go with the DO offer I currently have or get a better offer, I can pull my application out.
 
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Betabet said:
Another option: Defer a year at the DO school and do a post-bacc to try for MD. Classmate of mine did this and got into a low tier MD school (his MCAT was lower than yours but his GPA was higher).
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would I be able defer for 2 years? if I go the post-bacc route, I will have to wait until 2019 to apply for 2019-2020 cycle
 
SpartanWolverine said:
Fair point. I'm a little distant from the app process and don't quite remember timelines. Would be helpful to hear how many applications/interviews the OP has still pending.
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had 3 interviews, all DO schools, 1 reject, 1 waitlist, 1 offer. 1 MD school wait listed without interview. close to 50 apps
 
shadow97 said:
did not think about Post-Back at the time of applying. It was suggested by a few people, so exploring the option now. also I am not against DO, but worried about going newer school after reading some of the posts here.
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Depends on how new ? Have they graduated a class yet? There's some schools 5 years old with a recent match rate of 99%. New can sometimes be better than established in my opinion! Though I would be cautious with schools thAt haven't graduated a class yet
 
shadow97 said:
would I be able defer for 2 years? if I go the post-bacc route, I will have to wait until 2019 to apply for 2019-2020 cycle
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Two years? Probably not, unless you had a really good excuse. But, if you decide to do a post-bacc program, do one that guarantees you acceptance to an MD after completing it. I'd do that if I were you. There are several that are need-based, academic based, etc. I interviewed at 2 during my application cycle, so feel free to PM me about the process of applying and finding out which programs I applied to. Needless to say, I didn't get in. So you probably don't want my help with the interviews, but you have a way better MCAT (although lower GPA) than when I applied so I'd say you have a decent shot.
 
shadow97 said:
Have been acceptance at a newer DO school (5 years old) for 2018
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unaccpted said:
Be sure to keep in mind that once you decline that DO acceptance, you will be pretty much blacklisted at all other DO schools in the future.
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I truly do not believe this. It is commonly said throughout SDN, but I have yet to hear one solid proof of this being a thing. Please don't believe stuff like this at first glance. People decline acceptances all the time for numerous reasons (family, money, personal etc), there are 15k applicants a year do you really think the 40+ DO schools keep track of when one kid declines an acceptance and then black lists them like a governmental no fly list. I do not buy
 
eberge3 said:
I truly do not believe this. It is commonly said throughout SDN, but I have yet to hear one solid proof of this being a thing. Please don't believe stuff like this at first glance. People decline acceptances all the time for numerous reasons (family, money, personal etc), there are 15k applicants a year do you really think the 40+ DO schools keep track of when one kid declines an acceptance and then black lists them like a governmental no fly list. I do not buy
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I don’t know first hand that med schools work this way. Although your reasoning against the idea of not turning down an acceptance to avoid black list is just as poor as your reasoning that people decline all the time and a large population gets accepted so somehow a correlation exists.
 
If you did a postbac, you'd only be able squeeze in two semesters before applying again. Obviously turning down a DO acceptance would just about bar you from getting another DO acceptance after this cycle. If you decide to turn down the DO, you need to be 100% confident that you can put in the work it will take to get into MD. You don't want to end up stuck with the carribean as your only option.

Edit: Don't be an idiot, just take the DO route. You have a sub 3.0 GPA and it will take years to get yourself into a position to get MD. The letters on your coat are going to cost you 1 million dollars in lost salary if you wait to get your stats on par with MD.
 
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Is your dentist a DMD or a DDS?
Does your accountant have a BS or BA?

MBBS vs MD vs DO is the same way. A physician is a physician.

Is your doctor at the hospital a MBBS that slapped MD after their name when they came to the USA, who knows (THIS HAPPENS!)?

This may come as a shocker, but residency match rates for MD's and DO's are pretty much equal by percent. I've attached a quick break down of last years match data for the NRMP, both a summary and the full report. This data does not include the AOA match data which is the DO match. These are just DO's that participated in the NRMP alongside IMG and MD's. As you can see, percent breakdown of specialty is the same regardless of degree. Of note, however, DOs match at a higher percent for Ortho when combining NRMP and AOA data (as a percent! not total numbers, ....Could be a function of higher availability of Ortho sports available for DO through the AOA, could be last year's crop was more competitive, could be a lot of things. Anyway, I've attached the raw numbers)

User 'MADD!!!' Pointed out the error with Derm Numbers. I went back and checked for the PGY-2 and 3 Derm Spots. When adding them in it raised the Derm Match % to about equal to that of DO's in the AOA. Thanks, 'MADD!!!'
 

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StudentDoctorAnon said:
Is your dentist a DMD or a DDS?
Does your accountant have a BS or BA?

MBBS vs MD vs DO is the same way. A physician is a physician.

Is your doctor at the hospital a MBBS that slapped MD after their name when they came to the USA, who knows (THIS HAPPENS!)?

This may come as a shocker, but residency match rates for MD's and DO's are pretty much equal by percent. I've attached a quick break down of last years match data for the NRMP, both a summary and the full report. This data does not include the AOA match data which is the DO match. These are just DO's that participated in the NRMP alongside IMG and MD's. As you can see, percent breakdown of specialty is the same regardless of degree. Of note, however, DOs match at a higher percent for Derm and Ortho when combining NRMP and AOA data (as a percent! not total numbers, ....Could be a function of higher availability of Derm and Ortho sports available for DO through the AOA, could be last years crop was more competitive, could be a lot of things. Anyway, I've attached the raw numbers)
Click to expand...

One thing I want to add is for Derm most spots are filled via PGY-2 positions, which this chart doesn't include.
 
Turning your acceptance down would be a bad idea. It's going to cost you a year of earnings, you are going to struggle getting into an MD school with that GPA. If you wanted to be an MD you should have spent the previous 4 years acting like it. You achieved your goal of getting into medical school. Yay! Now advance to the next step in life.
 
popopopop said:
OP, what are you leaning towards?
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leaning towards going with the best offer I have at the end of the cycle. Got II from another DO school. Still might apply to UNT to keep my options open until the end.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Completely depends on your career goals. I would heavily consider an SMP, but only one with a very strong history of putting its grads in MD programs like Cincinnati or Georgetown.

It was rather dumb to apply to a school you really didn't want to go to.
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Honestly, I don't think OP will even get into an MD SMP with a GPA that low. Maybe SIU, but that's about it. And no, doing a DO SMP won't help your chances for Allopathic Schools, IMO.

OP, I would take the blow and make the deposit for the DO school. Then, if you want, try applying to some MD SMP programs NOW and see if you get any bites. If you do, then make the decision.

Don't give up the spot though!
 
StudentDoctorAnon said:
Is your dentist a DMD or a DDS?
Does your accountant have a BS or BA?

MBBS vs MD vs DO is the same way. A physician is a physician.

Is your doctor at the hospital a MBBS that slapped MD after their name when they came to the USA, who knows (THIS HAPPENS!)?

This may come as a shocker, but residency match rates for MD's and DO's are pretty much equal by percent. I've attached a quick break down of last years match data for the NRMP, both a summary and the full report. This data does not include the AOA match data which is the DO match. These are just DO's that participated in the NRMP alongside IMG and MD's. As you can see, percent breakdown of specialty is the same regardless of degree. Of note, however, DOs match at a higher percent for Ortho when combining NRMP and AOA data (as a percent! not total numbers, ....Could be a function of higher availability of Ortho sports available for DO through the AOA, could be last year's crop was more competitive, could be a lot of things. Anyway, I've attached the raw numbers)

User 'MADD!!!' Pointed out the error with Derm Numbers. I went back and checked for the PGY-2 and 3 Derm Spots. When adding them in it raised the Derm Match % to about equal to that of DO's in the AOA. Thanks, 'MADD!!!'
Click to expand...

There's at least a small difference between MD and DO in medicine. In dentistry, DMD and DDS are exactly the same thing. Harvard just invented the DMD out of thin air because DDS isn't latin.

For the record, I thought the purpose of this thread was to troll on DO schools (ie. to say that DO schools aren't even worth attending as a last resort). I can't believe anyone is advising him to turn down an acceptance – especially with a sub 3.0 cumulative.
 
The difference is his mcat is so high. If he was sitting at a 510 it would be diff but he has Harvard level mcat. I say it's worth it to at least take a crack at MD. You only live once, might as well make the most of it and do the SMP.

Nothing wrong with DO, but there is a stigma.


Noice said:
There's at least a small difference between MD and DO in medicine. In dentistry, DMD and DDS are exactly the same thing. Harvard just invented the DMD out of thin air because DDS isn't latin.

For the record, I thought the purpose of this thread was to troll on DO schools (ie. to say that DO schools aren't even worth attending as a last resort). I can't believe anyone is advising him to turn down an acceptance – especially with a sub 3.0 cumulative.
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unaccpted said:
Be sure to keep in mind that once you decline that DO acceptance, you will be pretty much blacklisted at all other DO schools in the future.
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Sorry for being out the loop but why exactly would you be blacklisted from other DO schools?
 
Dylanation said:
Sorry for being out the loop but why exactly would you be blacklisted from other DO schools?
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It means that if you decline an acceptance for a D.O. school and ever want to reapply do D.O. schools, they''re going to ask themselves "why would we accept someone who has already declined an acceptance".

Declining to go to medical school after being accepted pretty much black flags your application for life, and getting in again is close to impossible.

I think the OP's situation is unique, not because of his high MCAT per se, but because if he turns down his acceptance this year, he can probably get into a good M.D. school. The big risk is the fact he'd be essentially barred from entering a D.O. school ever again.
 
Robin-jay said:
The big risk is the fact he'd be essentially barred from entering a D.O. school ever again.
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Not with a 518. If he did a SMP and reapplied MD and DO he would have DO acceptances out the nose (provided he did well).
 
latinclubimperatus said:
This is hogwash. There is no blacklist. That school in particular probably won't, but there isn't some secret list schools pass around to each other. Don't let this paranoia crap scare you.
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I think you quoted the wrong person.
 
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