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Yeah, I noticed the condescending attitude as well, but I remained quiet, just to see how the thread turns out.
Indeed. Keep going at it. You're making this entertaining.
Do Ad-Coms adjust for the varying rigor at different undergrad schools?
- Thread starter Falconclaw
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Yeah, I noticed the condescending attitude as well, but I remained quiet, just to see how the thread turns out.
Indeed. Keep going at it. You're making this entertaining.
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Yeah, because every reasonably intelligent person knows that ad hominem is the go-to method (and if you read carefully my "ignorant" comment was not the first one).
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How would adcom see the following scenario?
ASU graduate: 31MCAT 3.85GPA Decent ec's/essay
Harvard graduate: 31MCAT 3.85GPA Decent ec's/essay
Given that they both performed similarly on interviews and such. Let me guess, the Harvard student would have a 1 up?
ASU graduate: 31MCAT 3.85GPA Decent ec's/essay
Harvard graduate: 31MCAT 3.85GPA Decent ec's/essay
Given that they both performed similarly on interviews and such. Let me guess, the Harvard student would have a 1 up?
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Yup.
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How would you know? If I may ask.
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Apparently yours is bitch-slapping?
(Feeling the burn there fireman?)
But seriously, what you're saying here is the equivalent of "but he started it!" Who uses that defense beyond 8-year-olds?
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The answer's there in the first two pages.
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That was not ad hominem. It was followed up by an honest argumentation.
And no, there was no burn.
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Since we're getting into an argument as to what type of argument we are arguing about, I think this helps:
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This is getting ridiculous. Notice how the other Yale student stopped posting in this thread. I think he is embarrassed.
Inycepoo, I came into this thread with a high opinion of Yale students, but you are making me reconsider.
Inycepoo, I came into this thread with a high opinion of Yale students, but you are making me reconsider.
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Can't be mad at a troller nam sayin'?
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Yeah, I noticed the condescending attitude as well, but I remained quiet, just to see how the thread turns out.
Indeed. Keep going at it. You're making this entertaining.
I aim to please. Boring SDN is the worst.
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LOL I love GTLO... the only mod I've seen on this thread to talk $h!t to the other users😍
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Idk. Still in college 🙁, but focusing on either astro or quantum.
GTLO is awesome, but I am rivals with his avatar.
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I doubt Dbate is embarrassed if you've seen some of the other posts. At least I didn't say 75% of Wisconsin in below 25% of Yale.
As for your impression on Yale...I've always considered myself to be the bottom half of my class, so perhaps I'm the bad apple if you think so lowly of me. But if you think this is bad, though it would be much more civil in person at a more timely hour ET, you should see Princeton.
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Dude study astro/cosmology. That **** is awesome.
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I strongly agree with the bolded. Who gives a commencement speech in Latin? And one of the few colleges to have the tiered system and offering a special place for valedictorian and salutatorian = more intense competition =
Agreed, but relativity tends to get messy though (well, not saying that quantum isn't messy, but still..). I'm sorta leaning to astro, but still a bit undecided.
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I'm from NJ actually, so I know more than two dozen Princeton students and let me assure you that none of them would make such fools of themselves.
You are getting overly defensive. Calm down. We all believe you are smart. The prestige of Yale is not being contested here.
You are getting overly defensive. Calm down. We all believe you are smart. The prestige of Yale is not being contested here.
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Maybe you should have spongebob with glasses... i would attach the meme but the vulgarity would get me suspended lol.
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No, I'm this guy
Squidthony Davis?
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It was never about my alleged intelligence (again, I'm average or below average at Yale), or Yale's prestige. Though I concede my attitude made it sound otherwise.
I was just sick and tired of hearing these attempts to downplay what we students have done based on nothing when we have done nothing of the like in return (besides Dbate, I guess). Like you said before, we're not blaming state schools for having lower stats or even putting them down for it, but just merely stating a fact in response to the original question posed ITT. Not are we here to belittle the "meritocracy" or explain socioeconomic factors, etc. Everyone makes the best of their situation, and we will all be rewarded in kind.
FYI, the line about Princeton is a contractual obligation to both Yale and my trolling tendencies. And also probably their reluctance to give me more financial aid back in the day :'(
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I'd like to wrap up my involvement ITT.
First of all, sincere apologies to anyone who I have offended in the slightest or seemed condescending to. This includes readers ex post facto. I myself have a high threshold for both these things, perhaps because of my upbringing in my community, and am still adjusting to dropping the New Yorker aggressiveness that's always been necessary for survival. I'm not making excuses, merely explaining. My apology still stands for both those willing and refusing to accept it. Even for the indifferent.
Like I said, the supposed anger and abrupt defensiveness stemmed out of reading for years on this website of others putting down the accomplishments (albeit in subtle ways) of top school students whenever the original topic ITT was brought up. Even if the intention of said accusers were not as such, I can only perceive what I can from their posts, much as what's been done to me here. It is indeed the fault of the writer for what his readers understand.
I set out merely to state that the behavior of adcoms on this matter is understandable because on average, Ivy (and many many other top schools, of course, but I'll use Ivies as an example) students achieve higher stats than others. On average, Ivies offer more difficult classes than others. On average, we score higher in science classes as a whole and therefore professors adjust the grading scales accordingly, leading to the supposed "inflation." (Again, outside of the sciences it is much more rampant; I've only gotten 2 Bs on papers to date, and I'm no mini-Shakespeare.) ON AVERAGE. This talk of top 25% vs. bottom 25% was ridiculous to begin with.
Those "on average" features are found in many many schools that I have zero knowledge of, and I have never denied that. Look through my other posts and you'll find I've hardly tried to advance opinions far from the aforementioned, unless in jest, which SDNers need to be able to spot more easily. No, I'm not finding an easy way out to make up for my posts. Some people here are wound up way too tight (myself included, you're right!). Dr. Seuss is like a God that none of us can possibly touch.
Therefore, other than my rash accusation of ignorance to a user and some of my more troll-like responses, I retract none of what I said, including the defenses on personal attacks. That is not immaturity in my eyes; that is a skill I have learned and nurtured in my years living in this wretched, selfish, and cold-hearted city, one that has served me well in many instances but also to the contrary as was apparent here.
We all struggle in school and have our own personal difficulties to overcome in the process. It is always frowned upon more when someone in my position defends this topic simply because of the "bias" I have, while others are forgiven for their insensitive statements made against us. I find that interesting.
I do not believe we all deserve this preferential treatment, and I've said it countless times. Adcoms are adcoms and they will do what they do. I was merely attempting to explain from this side of the sea why such an attitude towards us was ever adopted in he first place.
I am sad and regretful to see that the point has obviously not been made. Or maybe it has, but my personality deficits were much easier to dissect than my previously logical arguments.
Oh, and to those I've entertained, you're welcome. Boring SDN is boring.
First of all, sincere apologies to anyone who I have offended in the slightest or seemed condescending to. This includes readers ex post facto. I myself have a high threshold for both these things, perhaps because of my upbringing in my community, and am still adjusting to dropping the New Yorker aggressiveness that's always been necessary for survival. I'm not making excuses, merely explaining. My apology still stands for both those willing and refusing to accept it. Even for the indifferent.
Like I said, the supposed anger and abrupt defensiveness stemmed out of reading for years on this website of others putting down the accomplishments (albeit in subtle ways) of top school students whenever the original topic ITT was brought up. Even if the intention of said accusers were not as such, I can only perceive what I can from their posts, much as what's been done to me here. It is indeed the fault of the writer for what his readers understand.
I set out merely to state that the behavior of adcoms on this matter is understandable because on average, Ivy (and many many other top schools, of course, but I'll use Ivies as an example) students achieve higher stats than others. On average, Ivies offer more difficult classes than others. On average, we score higher in science classes as a whole and therefore professors adjust the grading scales accordingly, leading to the supposed "inflation." (Again, outside of the sciences it is much more rampant; I've only gotten 2 Bs on papers to date, and I'm no mini-Shakespeare.) ON AVERAGE. This talk of top 25% vs. bottom 25% was ridiculous to begin with.
Those "on average" features are found in many many schools that I have zero knowledge of, and I have never denied that. Look through my other posts and you'll find I've hardly tried to advance opinions far from the aforementioned, unless in jest, which SDNers need to be able to spot more easily. No, I'm not finding an easy way out to make up for my posts. Some people here are wound up way too tight (myself included, you're right!). Dr. Seuss is like a God that none of us can possibly touch.
Therefore, other than my rash accusation of ignorance to a user and some of my more troll-like responses, I retract none of what I said, including the defenses on personal attacks. That is not immaturity in my eyes; that is a skill I have learned and nurtured in my years living in this wretched, selfish, and cold-hearted city, one that has served me well in many instances but also to the contrary as was apparent here.
We all struggle in school and have our own personal difficulties to overcome in the process. It is always frowned upon more when someone in my position defends this topic simply because of the "bias" I have, while others are forgiven for their insensitive statements made against us. I find that interesting.
I do not believe we all deserve this preferential treatment, and I've said it countless times. Adcoms are adcoms and they will do what they do. I was merely attempting to explain from this side of the sea why such an attitude towards us was ever adopted in he first place.
I am sad and regretful to see that the point has obviously not been made. Or maybe it has, but my personality deficits were much easier to dissect than my previously logical arguments.
Oh, and to those I've entertained, you're welcome. Boring SDN is boring.
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ITT people bragging about academic pedigree for a job where, at times, you literally stick your finger up people's asses.
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pretty sure you'll do well. nice mcat score
I think there's been a misconception throughout this thread. Everyone is comparing 3.4s from Yale and the like to 3.8s from state schools. I don't think this will ever be the case because any 3.4 will probably get screened out at most med schools so the 3.8 from a state school will triumph every time.
I think it's more practical if you compare the 3.6s/3.7s from Yale & the like to the 3.8/3.9s of state schools. Now, this is the interesting question.
I think it's more practical if you compare the 3.6s/3.7s from Yale & the like to the 3.8/3.9s of state schools. Now, this is the interesting question.
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What I thought of Top 20 kids before this thread:
What I think of Top 20 kids after reading this thread:
Best movie ever.
Excellent use of Elliott Smith music. 👍
No, this thread first took a turn for the worse when some users started bashing grade inflation at top schools.
It really is ridiculous for people to claim a school is grade inflated and not realize that the caliber of the students at various institutions are not the same.
If the grading standards were equal at all schools (i.e. an A paper is given an A), then you would expect more As to be given out at a top school. That is the point.
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I know many top 15 schools that curve science classes to C+/B-, are the quality of students that different to justify almost a 1.0 GPA difference in the average grade given?
Regardless of Ivy/non-Ivy, I think the argument here applies to all "top" schools. The ambiguity and point of argument always comes from what qualifies as a "top" school. But if, however, you could hypothetically somehow make some cut-off, I think the question to ask is whether the students who received Bs at these tops schools would still be receiving Bs at the "non-top" schools. I don't think that would be the case. To make a crude analogy, think of putting an AP student getting a B in their class in the regular class. They would probably get a better grade, despite the fact that some students in the regular non-AP classes are probably as smart as some of the students in the AP classes.
If you take out the contentious point about what makes a "top" school, I think this is inycepoo's points are valid. I think people get a little sensitive when they feel their own school is not being considered "top." 🙄
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Yes.
These places have some of the smartest people in the US, and even from other countries like China, India, and Korea. You're competing against the best of the best. You're not competing against underachievers who went to a average or below average college.
You're competing against people who have been overachievers their whole lives and continue to do so in college.
Nothing ever can justify a 1.0 GPA difference, not even Harvard vs. Community College.
However, I believe "top" schools get some slack in that their 3.6s & 3.7s are worth just the same (if not more) as the 3.8s & 3.9s of state schools.
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Again, I would argue that at many of the non-top schools an A is still an A. A B is likely an A at a top school, and a C is likely a B at a top school. This is due to standard normalization of the curve.
What happens at a state school, is the curve is normally distributed. People who are high achievers on the fringe end up in the lower deviation on the above average, and are graded accordingly. There are plenty of riff-raff to fill in the lower distribution. At top schools, the normal distribution is nonetheless propagated but instead of basing it on the class at hand, they propagate imaginary people on the lower end. With our last president in mind, there are individuals who fit the lower end to help the distribution. Nonetheless, the vast majority are evidently high achievers and are graded as such. This is the luxury we gain going to a top school.
Anyone who took statistics, differential equations, or linear algebra should see this. On a similar note, as previously mentioned, the class size of a state school is significantly larger than a "top school." Depending on the school, we can assume an equivalent number of students pursue non BCPM classes classes and thus do not fit in the equation equivalently so the ratio, nonetheless, fits. I find it rather humorous that we are still even discussing it.
Q.E.D.
The jump has little to do with reputation. LizzyM said herself that Ivies + other top national universities + some LACs are put into a different category than state schools in terms of rigor.
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Well if we judge based on the metric of how much the students complain about how hard their school is, then Yale must be the hardest school that ever has or ever will exist.
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Yup, doesn't matter on the schools ranking as much as how hard the school is.
There was actually a study done in the late 90s that showed that UC Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law calculated GPAs differently depending which school you came from.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000829094953/http://www.pcmagic.net/abe/gradeadj.htm
As you can see, all the Ivy League schools are on there for getting a GPA boost, but there are many state schools (UVA/WM) that are harder than some of the Ivys and some LACs like Swarthmore and Williams that are much harder.
This is pretty old data, but I doubt that things have changed drastically to completely discredit it. Although, Princeton definitely has changed since then, but most other schools are probably around the same.
