Do Admissions know

[floridanerd0901]

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Apparently upward trends are viewed very positively, but aren't upward trends due to classes getting easier? At my school, if you survive the pre-reqs, the higher up Bio classes are easy and usually not graded on a curve. Also, a few of my friends thought they had subpar GPAs after graduating so they took local/cheap classes that they said were easy as hell. Again, it looks like you're improving, but in reality it just got easier.
So I'm confused to as why an adcom that sees:
3.0, 3.0, 3.7, 3.8 thinks that's an improvement? Do they take deflation into account?

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

Apparently upward trends are viewed very positively, but aren't upward trends due to classes getting easier? At my school, if you survive the pre-reqs, the higher up Bio classes easy and usually not graded on a curve. Also, a few of my friends thought they had subpart GPAs after graduating so they took local cheap classes that they said were easy as hell. Again, it looks like you're improving, but in reality it just got easier.
So I'm confused to as why an adcom that sees:
3.0, 3.0, 3.7, 3.8 thinks that's an improvement? Do they take deflation into account?

just because the grades in a class are better doesn't mean the class is easier. The pre-reqs get rid of all the fools who think they are doctor material, and that is why those grades tend to be lower.

 

[EDMPrincesss]

just because the grades in a class are better doesn't mean the class is easier. The pre-reqs get rid of all the fools who think they are doctor material, and that is why those grades tend to be lower.

Yes it does, if you go from a Gen Chem class that's graded on a curve and includes 300+ kids and then gets smaller each semester because people begin to stop being a premed to a 3rd year Bio class that includes only people that survived Orgo, Physics, Bio, Chem, the class should be harder if it's still graded on a curve. But they aren't, because they get easier and almost everyone is awarded an A. I took a 300 level last semester, 10 students, if you did the work and studied a bit, you were guaranteed an A.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

Yes it does, if you go from a Gen Chem class that's graded on a curve and includes 300+ kids and then gets smaller each semester because people begin to stop being a premed to a 3rd year Bio class that includes only people that survived Orgo, Physics, Bio, Chem, the class should be harder if it's still graded on a curve. But they aren't, because they get easier and almost everyone is awarded an A. I took a 300 level last semester, 10 students, if you did the work and studied a bit, you were guaranteed an A.

you made no sense. The classes don't become easier. The people in the classes are just smarter, more prepared and more driven than a 300+ class filled with a bunch of slackers, which leads to a higher grade average. That's like saying in this advanced P-Chem class the average grade was a B+ but in this Gen Chem class the average grade was a B- so the Gen chem class is obviously harder.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

Yes it does, if you go from a Gen Chem class that's graded on a curve and includes 300+ kids and then gets smaller each semester because people begin to stop being a premed to a 3rd year Bio class that includes only people that survived Orgo, Physics, Bio, Chem, the class should be harder if it's still graded on a curve. But they aren't, because they get easier and almost everyone is awarded an A. I took a 300 level last semester, 10 students, if you did the work and studied a bit, you were guaranteed an A.

BTW EDM-Princess is a oxymoron

 

[EDMPrincesss]

you made no sense. The classes don't become easier. The people in the classes are just smarter, more prepared and more driven than a 300+ class filled with a bunch of slackers, which leads to a higher grade average. That's like saying in this advanced P-Chem class the average grade was a B+ but in this Gen Chem class the average grade was a B- so the Gen chem class is obviously harder.

My bad, it's easier to get a good grade, but the material should be harder. What I mean is, in my school, the pre-requisites are curved to a C+/B- and higher courses are not curved and all the students could possibly get As.

 

[EDMPrincesss]

BTW EDM-Princess is a oxymoron

How?

 

[G_Marker]

This wasn't the case at my school. I actually have a downward trend. It's not a steep downward trend, but in classes like physical chemistry, calculus III, and virology, it's hard to get an A or even an A-. I did almost perfect for my first three semesters, and then... whammo! My GPA never returned to its perfection.

I suspect that as classes become harder, the people who don't work hard are weeded out. The upper level courses are still curved at my school, and not all the overachievers left in the class can get an A/A-.

 

[KanyeWes]

im jealous. all my classes were curved, even ones with 20 ppl in them.

 

[43092]

im jealous. all my classes were curved, even ones with 20 ppl in them.

And I'm sure the people at the bottom of a curve at a top school = the top of the curve at a lower ranked school. Not saying you go to a low ranked school, but it's not as simple as, "my class curves to an C". I'm sure I'd do great if I went to my CC even if they curved to a D.

 

[M12B]

Orgo 1 and 2 were the ONLY classes graded on a curve at my school... Classes got harder as you progressed through your degree... If you sucked you did poorly, if you were good you did well, period. Grades reflected your own personal effort and ability.

 

[allantois]

This is certainly not the case at my school. The classes generally get harder to ace in the sciences as you have more competitive students progressing through their degree and less competitive drop out of the program.

 

[Goro]

We can see the student's transcripts and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've improved their study habits. Many people have trouble because some life event throws them for a loop. Their recovery is seen as a rising trend.

Classes tend to get harder as one rises through he years, not easier. We expect students to be challenged by their coursework so we know they can handle medical school.

We're not stupid... we can see who's taking easy vs hard coursework.

The MCAT is the great equalizer as well.

Apparently upward trends are viewed very positively, but aren't upward trends due to classes getting easier? At my school, if you survive the pre-reqs, the higher up Bio classes are easy and usually not graded on a curve. Also, a few of my friends thought they had subpar GPAs after graduating so they took local/cheap classes that they said were easy as hell. Again, it looks like you're improving, but in reality it just got easier.
So I'm confused to as why an adcom that sees:
3.0, 3.0, 3.7, 3.8 thinks that's an improvement? Do they take deflation into account?

 

[KanyeWes]

And I'm sure the people at the bottom of a curve at a top school = the top of the curve at a lower ranked school. Not saying you go to a low ranked school, but it's not as simple as, "my class curves to an C". I'm sure I'd do great if I went to my CC even if they curved to a D.

well, I went to a top 50 school in the nation, and my school is ranked top 10 in my degree.

so curving small classes that had 20 students was a problem.

 

[911 Turbo]

We can see the student's transcripts and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've improved their study habits. Many people have trouble because some life event throws them for a loop. Their recovery is seen as a rising trend.

Classes tend to get harder as one rises through he years, not easier. We expect students to be challenged by their coursework so we know they can handle medical school.

We're not stupid... we can see who's taking easy vs hard coursework.

The MCAT is the great equalizer as well.

but I thought you said that majors don't matter?

 

[Goro]

They don't. Most pre-meds are Bio majors and they take the typical run of coursework in their UG schooling. they don't start out with Anatomy & Physiology or Physcial Chemistry.

The wise LizzyM has stated that when she sees a significant dip in grades early on, followed by a steep recovery, she knows it's from orgo classes.

So we can see if someone is taking Ecology classes, or Histroy of Science, or Nutrition and Food Science, and know that they're avoding the difficult Bio or other science courses.

End result, as you rise through the UG ranks, to be a credible candidate for medical school, you are expected to take more difficult and challenging classes.

Many UG schools are feeders to medical schools, like, the SUNYs to the NY medical schools. The Admissions deans all know who has grade inflation/deflation, and who doesn't. So it's an issue for you, not us.

but I thought you said that majors don't matter?

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

They don't. Most pre-meds are Bio majors and they take the typical run of coursework in their UG schooling. they don't start out with Anatomy & Physiology or Physcial Chemistry.

The wise LizzyM has stated that when she sees a significant dip in grades early on, followed by a steep recovery, she knows it's from orgo classes.

So we can see if someone is taking Ecology classes, or Histroy of Science, or Nutrition and Food Science, and know that they're avoding the difficult Bio or other science courses.

End result, as you rise through the UG ranks, to be a credible candidate for medical school, you are expected to take more difficult and challenging classes.

Many UG schools are feeders to medical schools, like, the SUNYs to the NY medical schools. The Admissions deans all know who has grade inflation/deflation, and who doesn't. So it's an issue for you, not us.

lol at those kids who take ecology classes.

 

[GypsyHummus]

We can see the student's transcripts and give them the benefit of the doubt that they've improved their study habits. Many people have trouble because some life event throws them for a loop. Their recovery is seen as a rising trend.

Classes tend to get harder as one rises through he years, not easier. We expect students to be challenged by their coursework so we know they can handle medical school.

We're not stupid... we can see who's taking easy vs hard coursework.

The MCAT is the great equalizer as well.

How would you view an applicant's transcript/coursework from the perspective of a non science major? Does taking upper level Econ classes illicit the same benefit of the doubt as someone majoring in Bio? Do ADCOMs understand if someone can't squeeze in biochem or anatomy, or do they truly want to see those upper level sciences if the pre rec grades are less than As?

How about re-takes of coursework in the pre recs, such as retaking gen chem? I assume it is not considered hard coursework in the eyes of the ADCOM, but from your experience with DO programs, how are they dealt with. Is it expected that if the applicant re-takes, they must get an A- or better? I remember you saying something before about you personally as an ADCOM not having a problem with retakes if the applicant does much better the 2nd time, but to those of your peers on the ADCOM who do not like retakes, do they cite a reason behind their distain?

 

[ridethecliche]

They don't. Most pre-meds are Bio majors and they take the typical run of coursework in their UG schooling. they don't start out with Anatomy & Physiology or Physcial Chemistry.

The wise LizzyM has stated that when she sees a significant dip in grades early on, followed by a steep recovery, she knows it's from orgo classes.

So we can see if someone is taking Ecology classes, or Histroy of Science, or Nutrition and Food Science, and know that they're avoding the difficult Bio or other science courses.

End result, as you rise through the UG ranks, to be a credible candidate for medical school, you are expected to take more difficult and challenging classes.

Many UG schools are feeders to medical schools, like, the SUNYs to the NY medical schools. The Admissions deans all know who has grade inflation/deflation, and who doesn't. So it's an issue for you, not us.

That's funny. History/philosophy of science classes were more challenging at my undergrad institution than other classes. I definitely read, wrote, and generally did a lot more work for some of them. Most science classes don't require you to do a few hundred pages of reading and present in front of the class every week. The prof knew within 30 seconds if you were trying to BS something or not in a class discussion.

Ahh the good old days.

 

[KanyeWes]

The Admissions deans all know who has grade inflation/deflation, and who doesn't. So it's an issue for you, not us.

good.

 

[Goro]

But this is not what medical school is like. You have to be able to suck up huge volumes of info and not merely memorize it, but apply, and do this rapidly, weeks on end.

Then on top of that, you have to be able touch and talk to patients, and apply what you know to the doing of Medicine, not merely the knowing.

That's funny. History/philosophy of science classes were more challenging at my undergrad institution than other classes. I definitely read, wrote, and generally did a lot more work for some of them. Most science classes don't require you to do a few hundred pages of reading and present in front of the class every week. The prof knew within 30 seconds if you were trying to BS something or not in a class discussion.


Non-science majors are in a special boat. They are expected to excel in the pre-reqs, but certainly not whiff on their requirements for their major. Actually, they still need to excel. Philosophy major with a 4.0 sGPA but a 3.0 cGPA isn't going to med school.

How would you view an applicant's transcript/coursework from the perspective of a non science major?

No.
Does taking upper level Econ classes illicit the same benefit of the doubt as someone majoring in Bio?
Yes. We do see that people take the bare minimum of pre-reqs, and that's all. However, the Finance major with a 3.0 sGPA, and a 4.0 cGPA isn't going to med school either.

Do ADCOMs understand if someone can't squeeze in biochem or anatomy, or do they truly want to see those upper level sciences if the pre rec grades are less than As?

We'll settle for a B or B+. Cs on retakes are generally a kiss of death.
How about re-takes of coursework in the pre recs, such as retaking gen chem? I assume it is not considered hard coursework in the eyes of the ADCOM, but from your experience with DO programs, how are they dealt with. Is it expected that if the applicant re-takes, they must get an A- or better?

None of my peers has a problem with retakes...it's the whole foundation of the AACOMAS grade replacement policy. We do have more of a problem with someone who might be doing retakes only one course at a time for several years. This doesn't give us confidence that the person can handle a medical school curriculum.
I remember you saying something before about you personally as an ADCOM not having a problem with retakes if the applicant does much better the 2nd time, but to those of your peers on the ADCOM who do not like retakes, do they cite a reason behind their distain?

 

[ridethecliche]

But this is not what medical school is like. You have to be able to suck up huge volumes of info and not merely memorize it, but apply, and do this rapidly, weeks on end.

Then on top of that, you have to be able touch and talk to patients, and apply what you know to the doing of Medicine, not merely the knowing.

Except the liberal arts are the synthesis and application of all that reading. Profs don't care that you can memorize it. They care about what it means in the context of everything else and how it relates to everything else.

I was a double major in this discipline as well as in biochemistry. I've done both.

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

But this is not what medical school is like. You have to be able to suck up huge volumes of info and not merely memorize it, but apply, and do this rapidly, weeks on end.

Yes. We do see that people take the bare minimum of pre-reqs, and that's all. However, the Finance major with a 3.0 sGPA, and a 4.0 cGPA isn't going to med school either.

He also isn't going to exist 😉

 

[Kochanie]

they don't start out with Anatomy & Physiology or Physcial Chemistry.

Got to love my school for having Physiology & Anatomy as the Bio pre-req (for medical school and upper level classes).