Do African Americans also get a boost when matching to residencies?

[tonguetalker]

I have been told numerous times that by being a black male, I have a much easier time getting into medical school. While I'm not taking that to mean that I should slack off in college (I am not), can the same be also true for those who wish to match into more competitive specialties? Like derm, rads or ortho? Just curious. Is it slightly easier for an urm in those regards? Radiology is what I like the most right now but once I get to the point of MS3-4 that could all change.

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[fun8stuff]

I have been told numerous times that by being a black male, I have a much easier time getting into medical school. While I'm not taking that to mean that I should slack off in college (I am not), can the same be also true for those who wish to match into more competitive specialties? Like derm, rads or ortho? Just curious. Is it slightly easier for an urm in those regards? Radiology is what I like the most right now but once I get to the point of MS3-4 that could all change.

Not at most programs.

 

[Moonglow]

The answer is no at competive academic residencies. Skin color or ethnicity does not matter (positively or negatively) as to who gets matched - the "Equal Employment Opportunity" federal law prohibits otherwise.

 

[goremachine]

All other things being equal, I would say yes, you would probably be ranked above a white applicant. However, unlike applying to medical school, ethnicity does not really allow you to match above where you're qualified in residency. However, I can't think of many PDs, who, assuming that two applicants were completely equally qualified, interviewed well, etc. would not rank a woman or an African American above a white male candidate. Radiology in particular is a very homogeneous field, so the diversity would be welcomed. I have often heard of radiology PDs contacting their female applicants to ask them why they did not rank the program higher, things like that.

 

[novado]

Equal Opportunity does not apply to residency stuff as much as you think. Remember the Michigan Law School lawsuit that was won due to what they felt was "reverse discrimination." I have heard many females say that they felt they were ranked higher in order to try to get more females in certain programs. I do not see how this would be any different for residencies based on race in some programs also.

 

[Substance]

The term "African-American" really bothers me. It makes the assumption that every American who has African lineage is Black, which is clearly not the case. Africa is a big continent with a multitude of native ethnicities.

Why can't we just use the term Black? What's wrong with it?

 

[Jacknut]

The term "African-American" really bothers me. It makes the assumption that every American who has African lineage is Black, which is clearly not the case. Africa is a big continent with a multitude of native ethnicities.

Why can't we just use the term Black? What's wrong with it?

African American = Afro-American = Black Americans,


I believe you don't know your semantics.

Anyway I use the term black.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

African American = Afro-American = Black Americans,


I believe you don't know your semantics.

Anyway I use the term black.

What if your from South Africa? Their is a large "white" population from that country. I realize that African-American has come to mean black, but I'm just sayin...

 

[Jacknut]

What if your from South Africa? Their is a large "white" population from that country. I realize that African-American has come to mean black, but I'm just sayin...

Then your south african (or caucasian if the person is white)...as a black person from Nigeria is a Nigerian (or black, but not African-American).

whew, that can probably get confusing. In other words who the hell cares?
If that really bothers you, you might need to get the sand out of your..

 

[NOsaintsfan]

It doesn't really "Bother" me, I just think its a little funny that it is considered offensive to call people black, we are told we must polite or whatever and call people African-American,,,why don't we call every one by their country of decent, because the large majority of people living in America are not of native decent.

I for one have Italian/Irish decent. Maybe I should be offended if people call me white. I'm an Italian/Irish-American.

See how silly that is???

When did we become so scared or uptight in this country?

Just for debate sake, if you were born in South Africa (and are white) and are currently a U.S. citizen. Then are you not an African-American?

Its just some food for thought.




**NOTE** This post is not meant to stir up some racist comments or sentiments and should not be taken that way.

 

[Jacknut]

Let me say I agree with you, Ive always called African-Americans black, even the TS says black and hes probably african american, I mean black lol.

And to answer your question about the white South African that is now a american citizen..I would call them American. Unless you want to call them South African-American , but I wouldnt call him African-American.

caucasian= white
African American= black
Indian = brown
Asian= oops, "now we is gettin racist up in her"

It doesn't really "Bother" me, I just think its a little funny that it is considered offensive to call people black, we are told we must polite or whatever and call them African-American,,,why don't we call every one by their country of decent, because the large majority of people living in America are not of native decent.

I for one have Italian/Irish decent. Maybe I should be offended if people call me white. I'm an Italian/Irish-American.

See how silly that is???

When did we become so scared or uptight in this country?

Just for debate sake, if you were born in South Africa (and are white) and are currently a U.S. citizen. Then are you not an African-American?

Its just some food for thought.




**NOTE** This post is not meant to stir up some racist comments or sentiments and should not be taken that way.

 

[tonguetalker]

I dont really consider myself to be an "African American" I see myself as a Black American. I agree that people should just refer to us as blacks but I feel as though people like "African American" to seem PC. I feel like African American really describes people who came from Africa recently and can also so say that they are Ethiopian or Nigerian. Also, I do know that some of my white friends feel uncomfortable with calling black people black people for some reason. I really dont think that Africans are black but honestly, I dont think it matters as long as you arent saying n!ggas.

 

[p53]

You guys are idiots. Why call someone black when they are not black. Look at the skin color. Where did the term black come from anyway. It is a racist term.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

You guys are idiots. Why call someone black when they are not black. Look at the skin color. Where did the term black come from anyway. It is a racist term.

Really? Calling a black person black is raciest? Is calling a white person raciest also? Only albinos have "white" skin and even their skin has a bit of apricot or pinkish tone to it. I've never really seen someone who's skin is stark white like printer paper.

Everyone needs to forget the P/C crap that is being shoved down our throats and use a little common sense.

Don't be hateful and act like a normal human being and everything will be ok.

 

[Jacknut]

You guys are idiots. Why call someone black when they are not black. Look at the skin color. Where did the term black come from anyway. It is a racist term.

your either a really bad troll or a complete idiot

 

[basupran]

I have heard of some programs referring to qualified minority female applicants as 'two birds' - they are very coveted.

I personally think that residency should be completely merit based. Everyone is equal in medical school- all med students take the same classes, get the same books, same lecture materials, same living situation, same loan money, take the same tests, etc...

 

[exPCM]

I have been told numerous times that by being a black male, I have a much easier time getting into medical school. While I'm not taking that to mean that I should slack off in college (I am not), can the same be also true for those who wish to match into more competitive specialties? Like derm, rads or ortho? Just curious. Is it slightly easier for an urm in those regards? Radiology is what I like the most right now but once I get to the point of MS3-4 that could all change.

Of course it is an edge in getting into a competitive residency if you are a URM as programs seek diversity to comply with EEO mandates. That is the way it is - just deal with it. However it is not everything - a URM with a 185 Step 1 score for instance is still going to be filtered out by a lot of programs using ERAS filters.

 

[elwademd]

I have heard of some programs referring to qualified minority female applicants as 'two birds' - they are very coveted.

I personally think that residency should be completely merit based. Everyone is equal in medical school- all med students take the same classes, get the same books, same lecture materials, same living situation, same loan money, take the same tests, etc...

while that sounds nice, its really not true:
classes are the same

books- depends if you buy them or not
living situtation- some live alone, others don't. some live on campus, some don't (depends on the school).

not every school requires an emergency medicine rotation. not every school requires a surgery elective. not every school has opportunities outside of the medical school curriculum to enhance your medical training.

some have scholarships, thus the loan money is not the same...

 

[fun8stuff]

while that sounds nice, its really not true:
classes are the same

books- depends if you buy them or not
living situtation- some live alone, others don't. some live on campus, some don't (depends on the school).

not every school requires an emergency medicine rotation. not every school requires a surgery elective. not every school has opportunities outside of the medical school curriculum to enhance your medical training.

some have scholarships, thus the loan money is not the same...

In regards to this thread, I know of 3 programs where race does not play any factor in the process. Gender may, depending on what the ratio is. I have a hard time believing that race would play a factor in resident selection.. but in my opinion, I don't think race should ever be a factor. I really do not see how preferring 1 color over another is not racism, even if it is giving extra points to a minority.

 

[vin5cent0]

Earn your own merits

 

[Eta Carinae]

My BFF in med school was the sweetest, most gregarious person I'd ever had the pleasure of befriending.

Not to mention, she, like a lot of Korean ladies I know, had a face that must have been sketched by an artist. She was also top 10% of our class and had step 1>250. (I wanted to be her ) She was like amazing!

She applied to Radiology last match cycle, got 16 interviews and ranked all 16. She failed to match.

Throughout the entire interview process, she shared with me her concerns about not matching due to the fact that most of the programs she interviewed at were monochromatic and almost seemed xenophobic (as if she wasn't American). I thought she was exaggerating the circumstances/environment at her interviews...until match day.

My point is- without some checks, the ball can swing too far in either direction. Either to the exclusion or the unfettered and obsequious pandering to a subset of the population. This is a pluralistic nation on many levels and we often have to be wary of subtle exclusionary tactics.

I don't think race or any other physical attribute should provide an unfair advantage or for that matter disadvantage. That being said, some programs of study (and very, very few at that) may need a little cajoling to ensure that we have a fair and balanced (I hate to borrow Fox's slogan here) process.

 

[Eta Carinae]

That being said,

Earn your own merits

Words fail me in my attempt to express the level of disgust I experience when I encounter applicants who rest on their imaginary oars.

Entitled applicants from whatever group are the bane of any academic admissions process.

I don't believe in AA crap. You want something, work for it!!!

 

[tonguetalker]

I never said that I wasnt going to work just as hard as anyone else in medical school. I do not feel entitled to anything. I was just asking a question and whether we feel it's a good thing or a bad thing, I was just wondering if it happened at all.

 

[Eta Carinae]

I never said that I wasnt going to work just as hard as anyone else in medical school. I do not feel entitled to anything. I was just asking a question and whether we feel it's a good thing or a bad thing, I was just wondering if it happened at all.

 

[fun8stuff]

My BFF in med school was the sweetest, most gregarious person I'd ever had the pleasure of befriending.

Not to mention, she, like a lot of Korean ladies I know, had a face that must have been sketched by an artist. She was also top 10% of our class and had step 1>250. (I wanted to be her ) She was like amazing!

She applied to Radiology last match cycle, got 16 interviews and ranked all 16. She failed to match.

Throughout the entire interview process, she shared with me her concerns about not matching due to the fact that most of the programs she interviewed at were monochromatic and almost seemed xenophobic (as if she wasn't American). I thought she was exaggerating the circumstances/environment at her interviews...until match day.

My point is- without some checks, the ball can swing too far in either direction. Either to the exclusion or the unfettered and obsequious pandering to a subset of the population. This is a pluralistic nation on many levels and we often have to be wary of subtle exclusionary tactics.

I don't think race or any other physical attribute should provide an unfair advantage or for that matter disadvantage. That being said, some programs of study (and very, very few at that) may need a little cajoling to ensure that we have a fair and balanced (I hate to borrow Fox's slogan here) process.

i have a number of asian rad friends who had no problem matching with stats not quite as high as what you are mentioning... and i would suspect many people on here would have similar experiences. that is very strange that your friend did not match. i would be weary of assuming it was her race... but i don't know her so it is hard to make a judgement. i do know that sometimes these type of applicants can come off as robots with trouble communicating 1 on 1 basis.... but i would have to absolutely agree: race shouldn't play any part in the process.

 

[Eta Carinae]

i have a number of asian rad friends who had no problem matching with stats not quite as high as what you are mentioning...

The point here is not specific to the asian race. I used an example that was closest to me.
It makes no difference whether you know a number of asian rad friends who matched. The point is that whatever arbitrary designation is assigned, when you encounter members of a different arbitrarily designated group, sometimes those designations/labels take precedence, and wrongly so.

that is very strange that your friend did not match. i would be weary of assuming it was her race... .

Not my assumption, but her assessment of the situation. As I said, she is gregarious and engaging.

these type of applicants can come off as robots with trouble communicating 1 on 1 basis....

An unfair description and generalization, don't you think?
Perhaps an example of the sort of thing we're trying to discourage, no?

 

[tonguetalker]

Actually, growing up, my mother always told me that I needed to work harder because I was black.

 

[penguin24]

Actually, growing up, my mother always told me that I needed to work harder because I was black.

Of course, why do you think that physicians are predominately white/asian, while if you go to a prison the inmates are predominately black/hispanic?

 

[Friendly]

The answer is no at competive academic residencies. Skin color or ethnicity does not matter (positively or negatively) as to who gets matched - the "Equal Employment Opportunity" federal law prohibits otherwise.

Yes, absolutely it does. At Hopkins, the PD openly discouraged second visits for the Osler program saying that it won't have any influence on you match. However, they 'invite' some applicants for a second visit, paying for their air fare and hotel. They are clearly deserving of the attention based on ability, I'm positive of that, but they are definitely not Caucasian.

 

[PrettyRad]

Wow a ton of people here are beating around the bush on a very simple question by a future applicant. Right or wrong, you like it or you don't, however, being black, hispanic, native american, or female is a great boon to your application for radiology residency/ all residencies. Being Indian (i.e. Indian subcontinent), or asian is essentially like being white as far as medicine admissions and residencies are concerned.

This was asked on AM and a PD responded to it as well. Essentially no PD wants to match a class of 10 future residents with 10 white dudes from the suburbs. That being said most applicants are white dudes from the suburbs and most programs will be 70-80% white males from my interview experience.

So how much does it help might be the real question. I think that it certainly helps get you interviews at some programs that would be a reach for other applicants with similar scores. In the end does being black switch you from being ranked 80 on the programs match list to #1... I highly doubt it. However will it get your ranked 30 instead of 80... maybe.

All told it will probably get you a few more interviews, ranked somewhat higher, and perhaps will earn you a few phone calls/emails from programs in February from programs that ranked you high.

PR

 

[aashkab]

Let me say I agree with you, Ive always called African-Americans black, even the TS says black and hes probably african american, I mean black lol.

And to answer your question about the white South African that is now a american citizen..I would call them American. Unless you want to call them South African-American , but I wouldnt call him African-American.

caucasian= white
African American= black
Indian = brown
Asian= oops, "now we is gettin racist up in her"

i don't know why indians can't be asian. we are from that continent.

 

[Hipporippo]

x

 

[yohimbine1]

I have been told numerous times that by being a black male, I have a much easier time getting into medical school. While I'm not taking that to mean that I should slack off in college (I am not), can the same be also true for those who wish to match into more competitive specialties? Like derm, rads or ortho? Just curious. Is it slightly easier for an urm in those regards? Radiology is what I like the most right now but once I get to the point of MS3-4 that could all change.

It will help you tremendously in getting into med school. From what I have seen--currently speaking as a 4th year--it does not seem to help in getting residency positions, and I'm glad for that. Diversity seemed to be much less of a big deal in residency programs than in med school classes. Maybe this is because med school classes have over 100 students whereas typical Radiology programs have 4-6 residents, so there isn't much room for overt diversity or lack of it.