Do AOA residency PDs care about the USMLE?

[Didierdrogba]

We all know that having good USMLE scores is conductive towards scoring "competitive" ACGME residency positions. So, what I'd like to ask now is quite the opposite: do most "competitive" AOA residencies care about your USMLE score, or are they more concerned with your COMLEX prowess.

Definition of "competitive" is ill defined, so be subjective with this term and define it however you like.

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[james2333]

We all know that having good USMLE scores is conductive towards scoring "competitive" ACGME residency positions. So, what I'd like to ask now is quite the opposite: do most "competitive" AOA residencies care about your USMLE score, or are they more concerned with your COMLEX prowess.

Definition of "competitive" is ill defined, so be subjective with this term and define it however you like.

Depends on the situation I suppose. I do know for a fact some of the ortho, ENT, neuro, rads programs look at USMLE. Especially if the PD is an MD. Generally I think PDs know that the USMLE is a harder test. If you took both thats great. If you did well on both even better. Some of those specialties are so competitive these days that a better USMLE score can separate you out. At the end of the day Step scores are a screening process initially and the audition rotation (Esp. for AOA residencies) is probably the most important thing. When they consider you as an overall applicant getting a 600 vs a 700 on COMLEX doesnt make that much of a difference especially if you sucked it up on USMLE. At the end of the day don't put too much stock in your step scores. Think of it as a foot in the door. Other stuff like grades, LORs are just as important, even research is becoming increasingly important for the top specialties.

 

[Dharma]

Depends on the situation I suppose. I do know for a fact some of the ortho, ENT, neuro, rads programs look at USMLE. Especially if the PD is an MD. Generally I think PDs know that the USMLE is a harder test. If you took both thats great. If you did well on both even better. Some of those specialties are so competitive these days that a better USMLE score can separate you out. At the end of the day Step scores are a screening process initially and the audition rotation (Esp. for AOA residencies) is probably the most important thing. When they consider you as an overall applicant getting a 600 vs a 700 on COMLEX doesnt make that much of a difference especially if you sucked it up on USMLE. At the end of the day don't put too much stock in your step scores. Think of it as a foot in the door. Other stuff like grades, LORs are just as important, even research is becoming increasingly important for the top specialties.

Is it really known has the "harder" exam? I've heard a lot of folks mention that it is written better and is more consistent compared to the COMLEX, i.e. one's score is more easily predicted throughout the preparation process as compared to the wildcard that is the COMLEX. Also, some PDs do not know much about evaluating the COMLEX; AOA PDs obviously will (or should at least).

The general consensus seems to be that we (DO students) should prepare for the USMLE... but to only take it if you're confident you will perform well. Low scores will only work against you. All of that said, looking at the PD surveys (NRMP though so we're talking ACGME) it does appear that Step scores hold as much (if not more) weight than just about any other factor, with clinical grades and LORs coming in a close 2nd. So, I would have to say that one should most definitely put a lot of stock in those Step scores.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

 

[Eilat87]

I sincerely believe it's a harder exam.

I found the COMLEX to be mostly consisted with first level thinking and straight forward questions.

With that said, I did pretty decent on step 1 but did much better on COMLEX 1.

 

[QuackaDO]

While I understand the context of your statement and agree it is mostly right, that's not the case for ALL specialties. I don't dwell too much on any of the others but since I do know about EM, LORs matter MUCH more, followed by grades (and honors) in desired clerkship, grades in required clerkships, audition rotation with the department, graduate of a US allopathic school (damn), and THEN in 7th place is Step 1 scores (with honors in clinical clerkships only 1% lower than Step scores) so while I do agree in jist with your comment, it's not an absolute and by no means a rule.

*Add on- In fact, I was curious so I did a little looking and was a bit shocked by something. If I listed the specialties of Anestiesology, child neurology, dermatology, Emergency Medicine, Gen Surgery, Internal Medicine, Neuro Surgery, Neurology, and Orthopedic Surgery do you think you can pick out the two specialties that put the MOST emphasis on Step 1 scores (without looking of course)? I wouldn't have been able to... it's Family medicine and internal medicine, lol! Out of all those specialties (probably more, Ortho was just as far as I went on the report) only those 2 actually put more emphasis on Step 1 scores than they do LORs... ALL the rest place letters of higher value. Kinda crazy to me. In fact, of all the ones I looked at, family, IM, and OB/GYN (or any of the combined residencies that combined one of those facets such as IM/Peds) put the most emphasis on board scores but I don't think there will be any argument that those three, out of that list above, are the LEAST competitive residencies on that list. Kind of a shocking little statistic to me.

Is it really known has the "harder" exam? I've heard a lot of folks mention that it is written better and is more consistent compared to the COMLEX, i.e. one's score is more easily predicted throughout the preparation process as compared to the wildcard that is the COMLEX. Also, some PDs do not know much about evaluating the COMLEX; AOA PDs obviously will (or should at least).

The general consensus seems to be that we (DO students) should prepare for the USMLE... but to only take it if you're confident you will perform well. Low scores will only work against you. All of that said, looking at the PD surveys (NRMP though so we're talking ACGME) it does appear that Step scores hold as much (if not more) weight than just about any other factor, with clinical grades and LORs coming in a close 2nd. So, I would have to say that one should most definitely put a lot of stock in those Step scores.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

 

[james2333]

Is it really known has the "harder" exam? I've heard a lot of folks mention that it is written better and is more consistent compared to the COMLEX, i.e. one's score is more easily predicted throughout the preparation process as compared to the wildcard that is the COMLEX. Also, some PDs do not know much about evaluating the COMLEX; AOA PDs obviously will (or should at least).

The general consensus seems to be that we (DO students) should prepare for the USMLE... but to only take it if you're confident you will perform well. Low scores will only work against you. All of that said, looking at the PD surveys (NRMP though so we're talking ACGME) it does appear that Step scores hold as much (if not more) weight than just about any other factor, with clinical grades and LORs coming in a close 2nd. So, I would have to say that one should most definitely put a lot of stock in those Step scores.

http://www.nrmp.org/data/programresultsbyspecialty2012.pdf

I go to the oldest DO school on the west coast and after talking to one of my advisors who has been with the school since its inception, I can most def. tell you that >95% students end up doing better on COMLEX than USMLE. The USMLE is much more difficult and to be flat out honest, you're taking that exam against a better group of students. In our class there are students in the top 10% that do well on COMLEX (>600) and end up getting 220s on their USMLE. She said maybe a handful of students per class will crack 240, 1 or 2 may crack 245.

I'm not saying step scores are not important, but I'm saying that it only goes so far. A student with a 700 step 1 score, average grades, average LORS no research will not fair as well as a 600 step 1 score, top 10 student, sigma sigma phi, great LORs and research. Step score is a screening tool, just ask any PD in Ortho. If your only strength is your step 1 score its not good. If you have a great USMLE score on top of your COMLEX score, even better.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Depends on the situation I suppose. I do know for a fact some of the ortho, ENT, neuro, rads programs look at USMLE. Especially if the PD is an MD. Generally I think PDs know that the USMLE is a harder test. If you took both thats great. If you did well on both even better. Some of those specialties are so competitive these days that a better USMLE score can separate you out. At the end of the day Step scores are a screening process initially and the audition rotation (Esp. for AOA residencies) is probably the most important thing. When they consider you as an overall applicant getting a 600 vs a 700 on COMLEX doesnt make that much of a difference especially if you sucked it up on USMLE. At the end of the day don't put too much stock in your step scores. Think of it as a foot in the door. Other stuff like grades, LORs are just as important, even research is becoming increasingly important for the top specialties.

Unless you are talking about acgme programs, there aren't any MD program directors of AOA programs, last I looked into, being a graduate of an osteopathic medical is a requirement to be an aoa pd.
Agree with most everything here, except someone said something about ssp, that's a joke compared to md aoa and last I checked meant nothing to anybody (except maybe the volunteer requirements).

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[james2333]

Unless you are talking about acgme programs, there aren't any MD program directors of AOA programs, last I looked into, being a graduate of an osteopathic medical is a requirement to be an aoa pd.
Agree with most everything here, except someone said something about ssp, that's a joke compared to md aoa and last I checked meant nothing to anybody (except maybe the volunteer requirements).

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That is not true. There are several ortho, neurosurgery, ENT, plastics, radiology programs with MD program directors. Look it up you'll find several. You'll also find that most of the faculty in these specialties are MD's and of course they will understand USMLE scores moreso than COMLEX.

SSP is the AOA equivalent in the Osteopathic world, most schools require being in the top 10%-15% of the class to be a member. There is a section on application services, even for ERAS that includes SSP. While it may be a joke to the ACGME world, in the AOA world it is important to many people. Being in the top 10% of your class or near the top is also very important in the more difficult specailties.

 

[joeDO2]

I have heard some of the dually accredited programs put a good amount of weight on the usmle scores so that they can compare apples to apples with every applicant

 

[preDoGuy24]

That is not true. There are several ortho, neurosurgery, ENT, plastics, radiology programs with MD program directors. Look it up you'll find several. You'll also find that most of the faculty in these specialties are MD's and of course they will understand USMLE scores moreso than COMLEX.

SSP is the AOA equivalent in the Osteopathic world, most schools require being in the top 10%-15% of the class to be a member. There is a section on application services, even for ERAS that includes SSP. While it may be a joke to the ACGME world, in the AOA world it is important to many people. Being in the top 10% of your class or near the top is also very important in the more difficult specailties.

That's not true about ssp, ill agree schools have different requirements but equating it to MD AOA is disingenuous at best. The academic requirements are not close to comparable, at most schools I know of its a student run group. Being in the top 10% is of course great, I'm just saying that has nothing to do with ssp.

All of the residencies I've been looking into in ortho (10ish) have had DO pd's, but I am probably incorrect in saying there aren't any MD pd's in the aoa. I have read it as a requirement on the aoa site before, but I wouldnt be surprised if it is something that can be waived/something I've read on sdn that was wrong.

Edit, just looked again on AOA guidelines, says essentially the program director must be a DO or MD-if "documented that a qualified DO is unavailable". My b. It does say it has to have a DO director of medical education, with no mention of a an MD substitution.

The more you know right?
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[cliquesh]

At my school, you just need a B+ average and be one of the first 125 people to apply to join SSP. It's not a big deal.

 

[DocEspana]

That's not true about ssp, ill agree schools have different requirements but equating it to MD AOA is disingenuous at best. The academic requirements are not close to comparable, at most schools I know of its a student run group. Being in the top 10% is of course great, I'm just saying that has nothing to do with ssp.

All of the residencies I've been looking into in ortho (10ish) have had DO pd's, but I am probably incorrect in saying there aren't any MD pd's in the aoa. I have read it as a requirement on the aoa site before, but I wouldnt be surprised if it is something that can be waived/something I've read on sdn that was wrong.

Edit, just looked again on AOA guidelines, says essentially the program director must be a DO or MD-if "documented that a qualified DO is unavailable". My b. It does say it has to have a DO director of medical education, with no mention of a an MD substitution.

The more you know right?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatxr

I still think youre right though. I do not in any way know all of the programs out there. But I have heard multiple programs who wanted to be dual accredited complain that there are zero MD program directors except in existing dual accredited programs, and in order to become dual accredited you need to have an MD PD. Which is a catch-22.

 

[Dharma]

While I understand the context of your statement and agree it is mostly right, that's not the case for ALL specialties. I don't dwell too much on any of the others but since I do know about EM, LORs matter MUCH more, followed by grades (and honors) in desired clerkship, grades in required clerkships, audition rotation with the department, graduate of a US allopathic school (damn), and THEN in 7th place is Step 1 scores (with honors in clinical clerkships only 1% lower than Step scores) so while I do agree in jist with your comment, it's not an absolute and by no means a rule.

*Add on- In fact, I was curious so I did a little looking and was a bit shocked by something. If I listed the specialties of Anestiesology, child neurology, dermatology, Emergency Medicine, Gen Surgery, Internal Medicine, Neuro Surgery, Neurology, and Orthopedic Surgery do you think you can pick out the two specialties that put the MOST emphasis on Step 1 scores (without looking of course)? I wouldn't have been able to... it's Family medicine and internal medicine, lol! Out of all those specialties (probably more, Ortho was just as far as I went on the report) only those 2 actually put more emphasis on Step 1 scores than they do LORs... ALL the rest place letters of higher value. Kinda crazy to me. In fact, of all the ones I looked at, family, IM, and OB/GYN (or any of the combined residencies that combined one of those facets such as IM/Peds) put the most emphasis on board scores but I don't think there will be any argument that those three, out of that list above, are the LEAST competitive residencies on that list. Kind of a shocking little statistic to me.

Yep. I actually started looking at some of the other specialities on that survey (surgery and EM in particular) after I posted and saw that the LORs in those areas held a lot more weight, along with the grades for those rotations amongst other factors (so, I stand somewhat corrected . I agree that there is so much more to the picture than the scores, but they're some major door openers/closers as well (which everyone here agrees on).

I still like to hear from more folks out there who took both USMLE and COMLEX. Maybe it's the SDN bias and all, but it sounds like the folks who prepared well for Step 1 and did not space the two exams out more than 5-7 days or so, did well on both.

I read this a ways back and thought it was an interesting response regarding the two exams:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=12866973&postcount=2

 

[james2333]

That's not true about ssp, ill agree schools have different requirements but equating it to MD AOA is disingenuous at best. The academic requirements are not close to comparable, at most schools I know of its a student run group. Being in the top 10% is of course great, I'm just saying that has nothing to do with ssp.

All of the residencies I've been looking into in ortho (10ish) have had DO pd's, but I am probably incorrect in saying there aren't any MD pd's in the aoa. I have read it as a requirement on the aoa site before, but I wouldnt be surprised if it is something that can be waived/something I've read on sdn that was wrong.

Edit, just looked again on AOA guidelines, says essentially the program director must be a DO or MD-if "documented that a qualified DO is unavailable". My b. It does say it has to have a DO director of medical education, with no mention of a an MD substitution.

The more you know right?
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatxr

I never said SSP was equivalent to AOA. It obviously has some significance being that there is a portion on the application reserved for SSP membership, even on NRMP

It doesnt hold as much weight as AOA but it does make a difference. Several PD's that I came across acknowledge it as a "Honors" society and it will make your application stronger.

Take a look at the GME report for AOA residencies
http://legacy.touro.edu/med/docs/DO_GME_match_2011.pdf

Minus Oral/Facial surgery the rest of the competitive specialties have SSP % membership much greater than the non-competitive specialties. Obviously it means something since there is a section on each page devoted to telling you the percentage of SSP members and a page describing what SSP is. I will tell you that the PDs for optho, neurosurgery and ortho affiliated with my school all look at SSP.

 

[HockeyDr09]

At my school, you just need a B+ average and be one of the first 125 people to apply to join SSP. It's not a big deal.

SSP is nowhere near as difficult to attain as AOA, I can definitely agree to that. However membership is capped at a MAX of 25% per class year. Unless your class size is 500 students (which is impossible according to the AACOM CIB which has the largest single school class size around 310 then your number is way off.

Section 2. Determination of Membership Limitation Subordinate chapter membership
shall not exceed 25% of the regular enrollment of students of the local recognized
Osteopathic College in the Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, & Senior classes. Should
the fraction computation by 0/5% or more over the computed 25%, the fraction shall allow one additional candidate.

For example, if you were at say, PCOM. The first year class size was 273 which makes max membership 69. Virtually half of 125. I'd give it a little more credit than you do. However, I absolutely agree it's not a deal breaker.

 

[preDoGuy24]

I never said SSP was equivalent to AOA. It obviously has some significance being that there is a portion on the application reserved for SSP membership, even on NRMP

It doesnt hold as much weight as AOA but it does make a difference. Several PD's that I came across acknowledge it as a "Honors" society and it will make your application stronger.

Take a look at the GME report for AOA residencies
http://legacy.touro.edu/med/docs/DO_GME_match_2011.pdf

Minus Oral/Facial surgery the rest of the competitive specialties have SSP % membership much greater than the non-competitive specialties. Obviously it means something since there is a section on each page devoted to telling you the percentage of SSP members and a page describing what SSP is. I will tell you that the PDs for optho, neurosurgery and ortho affiliated with my school all look at SSP.

Still not buying it. I think it more shows it to be something that students going for competitive fields join as a application booster then something that actually speaks to academic ability. Maybe students who join SSP are just more likely to go after more competitive specialties? From my experience the SSP members tend to make it more than it is, overall if you want a competitive specialty SSP isn't going to get it for you compared to grades,boards, etc.

 

[HockeyDr09]

Still not buying it. I think it more shows it to be something that students going for competitive fields join as a application booster then something that actually speaks to academic ability. Maybe students who join SSP are just more likely to go after more competitive specialties? From my experience the SSP members tend to make it more than it is, overall if you want a competitive specialty SSP isn't going to get it for you compared to grades,boards, etc.

I don't think he was saying SSP membership would get it you in OVER board scores and clinical grades (neither would AOA membership). However, I think you're kidding yourself if you think it's meaningless. There aren't very many things medical students can do to "stand out" past board scores, LOR's, and research. I can't see how being accepted into something that only accepts 1/4th of the class wouldn't make you stand out. Also, for my school most people join SSP 2nd semester of 1st year, and NO ONE knows what their doing specialty wise. So the "gunning for competitive specialty" aspect doesn't really hold water to me.

Overall, I believe you're correct that SSP members tend to OVER value membership, however, I think you're under valuing it. My take on it. You need solid board scores/LOR's but something like SSP membership could give you a slight edge over other candidates with similar scores.

 

[sylvanthus]

I am in SSP and not once in 23 residency interviews did anyone mention it or bring it up. Sure, it may help somewhat, as does everything, but I don't think it is nearly as important as AOA to MDs.

 

[MrBeauregard]

23 interviews? I know you already matched and everything, but geez man, awesome job!

 

[HockeyDr09]

I am in SSP and not once in 23 residency interviews did anyone mention it or bring it up. Sure, it may help somewhat, as does everything, but I don't think it is nearly as important as AOA to MDs.

Appreciate the insight. Baller with 23 interviews.

 

[sylvanthus]

23 interviews? I know you already matched and everything, but geez man, awesome job!

Ya I did 3 DO ones before the MD interviews started rolling in. Then, because I am a bit paranoid and tend to overdo things, I went on 20 MD interviews. I actually accrued enough miles to fly my wife and I to Barcelona (for a cruise) and back for free. Granted, I prob spent 12,000 over the season.

 

[preDoGuy24]

I don't think he was saying SSP membership would get it you in OVER board scores and clinical grades (neither would AOA membership). However, I think you're kidding yourself if you think it's meaningless. There aren't very many things medical students can do to "stand out" past board scores, LOR's, and research. I can't see how being accepted into something that only accepts 1/4th of the class wouldn't make you stand out. Also, for my school most people join SSP 2nd semester of 1st year, and NO ONE knows what their doing specialty wise. So the "gunning for competitive specialty" aspect doesn't really hold water to me.

Overall, I believe you're correct that SSP members tend to OVER value membership, however, I think you're under valuing it. My take on it. You need solid board scores/LOR's but something like SSP membership could give you a slight edge over other candidates with similar scores.

That I can agree with. At my school it is a student run group, whose membership isn't standardized above having a 3.0 GPA, so maybe I am under selling it in comparison to some schools out there with stricter requirements. Saying it's a program only 1/4 get into from a given class isn't exactly right, at my school I didn't even apply for it but am in the top 1/4 of my class. So are a lot of people I know with better standing then me that didn't apply.

Long story short, I am unimpressed with it, but will accept that it may help some peoples application with all things being equal over someone not in the club.

 

[koojo]

No one at any of the AOA ENT rotations or interviews that I've been to mentioned the USMLE. AOA residency and DO program director = COMLEX scores. They should not need the USMLE score for anything.

 

[HockeyDr09]

That I can agree with. At my school it is a student run group, whose membership isn't standardized above having a 3.0 GPA, so maybe I am under selling it in comparison to some schools out there with stricter requirements. Saying it's a program only 1/4 get into from a given class isn't exactly right, at my school I didn't even apply for it but am in the top 1/4 of my class. So are a lot of people I know with better standing then me that didn't apply.

Long story short, I am unimpressed with it, but will accept that it may help some peoples application with all things being equal over someone not in the club.

We both agree, and I'm not trying to be a pain. But it's NOT the top 1/4 grade-wise. You could be ranked 1st in the class and not participate in any other activities and not be accepted into SSP because of a lack of community involvement. It's supposed to be a "service fraternity" with over a 3.0 GPA (GPA requirement depends on school). It's not just the top 25% of class gradewise that applies is accepted. There were students in my school who were top 25% and not accepted because of a lack of "well-roundedness".

Anyway, back to the original question (kind of). What do AOA directors think of a medicore, subpar USMLE score ~200- 210 (I believe the average is 215- 225)? Do any 4th years or Residents know how AOA PD's view the USMLE? I know they care about the COMLEX primarily (obviously), but I haven't heard all that much about what they think of a slightly below average / below average (not failing) USMLE. Will they honestly just ignore the USMLE score regardless?

 

[username456789]

SSP is the AOA equivalent in the Osteopathic world

I do not think is is correct.

 

[username456789]

I never said SSP was equivalent to AOA.

SSP is the AOA equivalent in the Osteopathic world

Wut.

 

[james2333]

Wut.

Those are two different responses. I "never said SSP was equivalent to AOA" was a response to a comment someone thought I made. We were talking about ACGME residency programs and they thought I said that SSP was equivalent to AOA. Obviously its not, ACGME program directors probably could care less since they don't know what SSP is, even though its on the NRMP website.

The second comment was in reference to AOA residencies. The only only honors organization that exists across all osteopathic schools is SSP so in that sense, yes its like AOA but in the osteopathic world.

Most programs limit membership to top 25% and then have those students apply for membership. I understand that for some schools its different. Thats unfortunate. Do all PD's take value in SSP membership? probably not but like I said the PD's affiliated with the competitive specialties at my school consider it in the rankings. Having SSP can only help you, it will not harm you.

 

[koojo]

Why so much talk on AOA/SSP? The OP asked about USMLE...

 

[Didierdrogba]

Why so much talk on AOA/SSP? The OP asked about USMLE...

thank you

 

[preDoGuy24]

Hockeydoc we are in agreement, I think we probably go to the same school. My original argument was just that its not the DO's AOA, because academics isn't an emphasis in the application...and horse has been beaten so moving on.

thank you

Sorry about the derailment, I was under the impression that AOA residencies will not ask for USMLE/you don't have to release your scores if you have taken it.

Any 4th years have info on this? I could see releasing scores as being an issue if you were say applying for (insert competitive non surgical specialty) and had a really competitive usmle, would PD's just assume you are going to enter the ACGME match and not interview/take your application seriously?

 

[sylvanthus]

Hockeydoc we are in agreement, I think we probably go to the same school. My original argument was just that its not the DO's AOA, because academics isn't an emphasis in the application...and horse has been beaten so moving on.



Sorry about the derailment, I was under the impression that AOA residencies will not ask for USMLE/you don't have to release your scores if you have taken it.

Any 4th years have info on this? I could see releasing scores as being an issue if you were say applying for (insert competitive non surgical specialty) and had a really competitive usmle, would PD's just assume you are going to enter the ACGME match and not interview/take your application seriously?

If you apply to DO residencies you do not have to release USMLE scores. If you apply MD you have to report you took it but it is unclear if you have to actually release scores. However a PD will know you sucked if you report you took it but not the score.

 

[HockeyDr09]

If you apply to DO residencies you do not have to release USMLE scores. If you apply MD you have to report you took it but it is unclear if you have to actually release scores. However a PD will know you sucked if you report you took it but not the score.

I was under the impression that starting this upcoming year we HAVE to report the USMLE to DO residencies (if we took it, obviously). Can anyone confirm or deny this?

 

[sylvanthus]

I was under the impression that starting this upcoming year we HAVE to report the USMLE to DO residencies (if we took it, obviously). Can anyone confirm or deny this?

I just checked the AOA site and it is still the same. But who knows if that section is up to date.

 

[DrBumblebee]

Ya I did 3 DO ones before the MD interviews started rolling in. Then, because I am a bit paranoid and tend to overdo things, I went on 20 MD interviews. I actually accrued enough miles to fly my wife and I to Barcelona (for a cruise) and back for free. Granted, I prob spent 12,000 over the season.

That's a huge sum. I wonder how were you covered with financial aid for that amount for interviews? Do you ask for it from fin.aid dept. before you travel, or do they reimburse it into your credit card after your travel?

 

[sylvanthus]

That's a huge sum. I wonder how were you covered with financial aid for that amount for interviews? Do you ask for it from fin.aid dept. before you travel, or do they reimburse it into your credit card after your travel?

My situation is a bit different as I am married. So the wife helped cover rent and i saved for interviews. Also got an airline credit card to accrue miles and put tickets on there.

 

[Orthojoe]

I was asked my usmle scores at 3 of my 6 AOA ortho residency interviews. Its because there were MDs on staff. At Doctors Hospital, columbus ohio the residents asked my usmle scores during interviews as well.

I think comlex is a much harder exam because its so poorly written!! UGG it is so ambigious, i wanted to shoot myself in the face. It also relied more heavily on straight memorization. If you didnt memorize the most smallest detail then you missed it. The USMLE's question stem allowed you to work through the answer in most cases. Here's one question I got on on step one COMLEX

"a 3 year old child presents with a rash for 2 days that mother thinks began on his face, what's the diagnoses" - measles, rubella, parvovirus, erisepelas,

compared to USMLE (the difference is in the amount of thoughtful steps)

"a 3 year old child presents with a 2 day rash that began on his face. The mother states he had a fever before the rash but currently he is afebrile. (see photo of rash... it showed a child with diffuse papularmacular rash). what is the treatment" - he needs to be admitted and isolated, treat with acyclovir, supportive care,

I highly recommend studying for the USMLE, and taking the comlex one week later -- dont study any OMM until the week between the two tests and only study the green savarese book. I did the same for step 2. It worked out well for me. I am in the process of studying for step three, taking it this august to get it out of the way.

UGG comlex step 2 was worse!!! I hope step 3 isnt as bad, at least I only need to pass at 351.

 

[bigyihoroi]

I am one of the candidates who applied to both DO and MD anesthesia and matched MD. I took both USMLE and COMLEX 1&2. Only the DO anesthesia program at Riverside had ever asked about my USMLE score. Here are some of the reasons why I think the interviewers were interested in my USMLE score:

1. My COMLEX level 2 score dropped, so they want to know how I perform on USMLE since they know most candidates who applied anesthesia took USMLE.
2. From my rotation experience, Riverside Anesthesia is a very allopathically osteopathic program in terms of quality of training.
3. Even riverside is an osteopathic program, their curriculum is based upon ACGME standards. Unlike most other DO anesthesia, residents were trained to complete based on ACGME standards. PD said the program will likely become dually accredited in a year or two since UC riverside med school will using RCRMC as its major training ground and would like to establish residencies there of its own.

So in my opinion, most DO program directors don't care about your USMLE score but if you were applying for competitive specialties or the program has MD faculties, a good USMLE score will certainly help.

 

[DrBumblebee]

I am one of the candidates who applied to both DO and MD anesthesia and matched MD. I took both USMLE and COMLEX 1&2. Only the DO anesthesia program at Riverside had ever asked about my USMLE score. Here are some of the reasons why I think the interviewers were interested in my USMLE score:

1. My COMLEX level 2 score dropped, so they want to know how I perform on USMLE since they know most candidates who applied anesthesia took USMLE.
2. From my rotation experience, Riverside Anesthesia is a very allopathically osteopathic program in terms of quality of training.
3. Even riverside is an osteopathic program, their curriculum is based upon ACGME standards. Unlike most other DO anesthesia, residents were trained to complete based on ACGME standards. PD said the program will likely become dually accredited in a year or two since UC riverside med school will using RCRMC as its major training ground and would like to establish residencies there of its own.

So in my opinion, most DO program directors don't care about your USMLE score but if you were applying for competitive specialties or the program has MD faculties, a good USMLE score will certainly help.

I think ACGME comes after AOA match. So, did you drop AOA or didn't match AOA?

 

[bigyihoroi]

I think ACGME comes after AOA match. So, did you drop AOA or didn't match AOA?

I ended up only ranking the Riverside program but failed to match. Looking back now, it's kind of a risky move.

 

[Dr Yiot]

We both agree, and I'm not trying to be a pain. But it's NOT the top 1/4 grade-wise. You could be ranked 1st in the class and not participate in any other activities and not be accepted into SSP because of a lack of community involvement. It's supposed to be a "service fraternity" with over a 3.0 GPA (GPA requirement depends on school). It's not just the top 25% of class gradewise that applies is accepted. There were students in my school who were top 25% and not accepted because of a lack of "well-roundedness".

yeah we got to the same school. im kinda bummed cause having a family i didnt do many "volunteer" things and didnt have the amount of touch points necessary to apply. I know its not many but I would rather spend my time else where. oh well.