DO as backup plan?

[Shinobiz11]

Yo, I was just wondering why some (a good number) allo pre-meds associate DO as their backup plan. I know the expectations for DO schools are lower than MD, but why do they see it as inferior. I just read a couple of wedMD profiles of people who had low GPA's or low MCAT scores and almost all of them said they will now try to apply to DO schools. Personally I see nothing wrong with a DO, pretty much the same thing as a MD, but what is with all the hate?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[voitokas]

Is it hate, or realism? DO schools are hard to get into too, but they screen for different things than MD schools. If someone thinks they'd make a good doctor but didn't do well on the MCATs or didn't get a stellar GPA or doesn't fit the profile of success by which the MD schools they wanted measure applicants, then applying to DO programs seems like a reasonable "backup plan". They might not get in, but it's not a bad gamble.

 

[Cybii]

Yo, I was just wondering why some (a good number) allo pre-meds associate DO as their backup plan. I know the expectations for DO schools are lower than MD, but why do they see it as inferior. I just read a couple of wedMD profiles of people who had low GPA's or low MCAT scores and almost all of them said they will now try to apply to DO schools. Personally I see nothing wrong with a DO, pretty much the same thing as a MD, but what is with all the hate?

Heh, you're asking a pre-osteopathic forum this question?

I think you'll get a better answer of why pre-allopathic students treat the DO route as a "backup" if you ask the pre-allopathic forums. You might get some pseudo statistics, but at least you'll know their motive.

 

[ArsenalEPL4Life]

I have applied to both, 4 MD and 5 DO. I have been accepted to 4 of the DO schools and havent heard back from the remaining 1 DO school and the 4 MD schools. I look at it this way, either route will be challenging, and either route will get me to my goal of being a physician. If I get into UIC or SIU it would be pretty hard to turn down because I am an Illinois resident and the tuition will be less then DMU-COM, KCUMB, CCOM, and AZCOM. I think people should view it as another option, not a back up plan. I have a classmate who is a 3rd time reapplicant and refuses to apply to DO schools. I dont get it, if you want to be a physician and the MD route isnt working for you, you should at least try the DO route and see if you get any luck there. Instead now he is going for his masters in nursing, makes no sense but whatever. I guess in a way it can be viewed as a back up, but its more of an alternate route to the same destination.

From my experience, anyone who views the DO route as inferior is either a pre-med who hasnt applied yet, or is simply full of themselves and just wants the prestige s/he feels is associated with being an MD. In the Chicago area, and im sure in many other places, tons of DO's work in the same practices as MD's. In fact when I was shadowing back at school, I remember that at the hospital near my campus there were two nuerosurgeons in a practice together...one was an MD and one was a DO.

I have heard that there is some bias toward DO's in certain residencies, but if you work as hard as you can and get good boards and do well on rotations, im sure you will end up where you want to be.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Heh, you're asking a pre-osteopathic forum this question?

I think you'll get a better answer of why pre-allopathic students treat the DO route as a "backup" if you ask the pre-allopathic forums. You might get some pseudo statistics, but at least you'll know their motive.

Well I was going to, but I thought that the mods would move it.

Also I see your points and they answer my question. But, what about the people who choose DO as their main goal in life. What if their stats are good enough for MD, are you willing to switch, even though they are the same thing?

I think it all comes down to status and how you want people to respect you. Everyone knows what MD's are but I know people who think DO's are bone doctors (the name). Also, I know a doctor (friend) who had his treatment denied because the patient didn't know what a DO was. I think this is the main problem and DO's need to address this.

 

[djd2187]

I have applied to both, 4 MD and 5 DO. I have been accepted to 4 of the DO schools and havent heard back from the remaining 1 DO school and the 4 MD schools. I look at it this way, either route will be challenging, and either route will get me to my goal of being a physician. If I get into UIC or SIU it would be pretty hard to turn down because I am an Illinois resident and the tuition will be less then DMU-COM, KCUMB, CCOM, and AZCOM. I think people should view it as another option, not a back up plan. I have a classmate who is a 3rd time reapplicant and refuses to apply to DO schools. I dont get it, if you want to be a physician and the MD route isnt working for you, you should at least try the DO route and see if you get any luck there. Instead now he is going for his masters in nursing, makes no sense but whatever. I guess in a way it can be viewed as a back up, but its more of an alternate route to the same destination.

From my experience, anyone who views the DO route as inferior is either a pre-med who hasnt applied yet, or is simply full of themselves and just wants the prestige s/he feels is associated with being an MD. In the Chicago area, and im sure in many other places, tons of DO's work in the same practices as MD's. In fact when I was shadowing back at school, I remember that at the hospital near my campus there were two nuerosurgeons in a practice together...one was an MD and one was a DO.

I have heard that there is some bias toward DO's in certain residencies, but if you work as hard as you can and get good boards and do well on rotations, im sure you will end up where you want to be.

Well said, I feel like this point needs to be addressed over and over again. Many of us might actually have the statistics to get into MD schools but its the waiting that does not seem feasible. In the end, having the ability to become a physician trumps the two letters at the end of the name.

 

[swamprat]

Yeah there are applicants that refuse to go the DO route for whatever reason and there are applicants that apply both. You rarely see people only apply DO (from the people I have spoken to on the interview trail). Even though they are equivalent degrees and both physicians in the very end do the exact same thing (my family physician is a DO), the road may be a little less bumpy for allopathic students due to some states and residencies still being old fashion about the degree and the fact that you need to take 2 exams, the COMLEX and USMLE (you don't need to take USMLE, but I would). So, unless you have a real thing for the osteopathic philosophy or OMM, most applicants apply to both, and if they see no luck on the allopathic end they are perfectly happy with the osteopathic route. Osteopathic schools ARE competitive to get into, but allopathic schools are near impossible to get into(higher MCAT and mean GPAs, although osteopathic schools are going up and a smaller percentage of post-interview acceptances compared to invites)... so yeah I guess technically its a backup, but I wouldn't consider it so if you apply to both at the same time - I would consider it being smart applicant. At least that's how I feel about the subject.

 

[premedmind]

I know quite a few people who went to the Caribbean just because they wanted the glorious MD, because let's be real here, the vast majority of students at Caribbean MD schools either want the prestige or think a DO is inferior in some way. In my humble opinion, I think that is a poor decision. The legitimate decisions should be based on incompatibility with practicing OMM. I'm pretty sure you get a better education at any medical school in the U.S. than in the Caribbean, not to mention immensely better rotation sites - then it just becomes a question of do you want to be a GREAT doctor or a mediocre doctor?

 

[ILikeDrugs]

More doors will be open for you as a US MD. There are some residencies that will only fill up with MDs and some jobs offerings that I've been looking through want MDs only, which doesn't seem to apply to PCP so much as it does to other specialty positions.

 

[csmittyB]

I know quite a few people who went to the Caribbean just because they wanted the glorious MD, because let's be real here, the vast majority of students at Caribbean MD schools either want the prestige or think a DO is inferior in some way. In my humble opinion, I think that is a poor decision. The legitimate decisions should be based on incompatibility with practicing OMM. I'm pretty sure you get a better education at any medical school in the U.S. than in the Caribbean, not to mention immensely better rotation sites - then it just becomes a question of do you want to be a GREAT doctor or a mediocre doctor?

Or don't have the numbers to get into US MD or DO schools.

 

[rddoms]

In the US, DO=MD=MBBS=MBChB, etc (as far as rights and abilities, OMM not included). The whole DO vs. MD thing is a joke, and will hopefully disappear sooner rather than later.

 

[JaggerPlate]

In the US, DO=MD=MBBS=MBChB, etc (as far as rights and abilities, OMM not included). The whole DO vs. MD thing is a joke, and will hopefully disappear sooner rather than later.

With 20% of current med students enrolled at an osteopathic college ... it will.

Also, it's foolish/selfish to use it as a backup, and I hope that most people who do get pwned in interviews and it becomes apparent what they are doing. All it does it take seats away from people who really want to go DO or really have no preference. Furthermore, I don't know how anyone can look at raw number for applicants vs number of seats at DO schools, or visit some of these campuses, or look at some of these match lists and honestly say 'this is my backup.' It's insane. Be proud if you get into ANY US medical school, it's a huge accomplishment and one that I truly didn't understand until I applied.

 

[TeamZissou]

some jobs offerings that I've been looking through want MDs only, which doesn't seem to apply to PCP so much as it does to other specialty positions.

Are you counting the ones who advertise for MD's or do they specifically state no DO's? Some sources would be good.

 

[MossPoh]

With 20% of current med students enrolled at an osteopathic college ... it will.

Old habits die hard. I don't think it will be as soon as one hopes. It depends on where the graduates go. While most patients don't NOTICE during treatment, if you talk about medical education/stuff, it is almost always assumed MD. When I thought I was going to Nova, people would constantly congratulate me and mentioned they always saw me as MossPoh M.D., or gave me things with M.D. on them. How this is fixed I have no clue. Better marketing?

 

[Just Joshin]

More doors will be open for you as a US MD. There are some residencies that will only fill up with MDs and some jobs offerings that I've been looking through want MDs only, which doesn't seem to apply to PCP so much as it does to other specialty positions.

I call BS on that. Proof please.

 

[SolanoDoc]

I know quite a few people who went to the Caribbean just because they wanted the glorious MD, because let's be real here, the vast majority of students at Caribbean MD schools either want the prestige or think a DO is inferior in some way. In my humble opinion, I think that is a poor decision. The legitimate decisions should be based on incompatibility with practicing OMM. I'm pretty sure you get a better education at any medical school in the U.S. than in the Caribbean, not to mention immensely better rotation sites - then it just becomes a question of do you want to be a GREAT doctor or a mediocre doctor?

Are you kidding? Getting into a DO school is much harder than getting into a Caribbean school. The only Caribbean school I know that actually rejects students is SGU and even compared to DO programs its a lot easier to get into, in fact SGU accepts about 25 percent of applicants, the easier DO schools never accept more than 10 percent of applicants.

Most people in the Caribbean are there because they really had no other options, the ones who went to the Caribbean on purpose are in the upper 5 to 10 percent of the class who just wanted the "MD".

As far as more doors open for you as an MD its not necessarily true unless you are a US MD.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Old habits die hard. I don't think it will be as soon as one hopes. It depends on where the graduates go. While most patients don't NOTICE during treatment, if you talk about medical education/stuff, it is almost always assumed MD. When I thought I was going to Nova, people would constantly congratulate me and mentioned they always saw me as MossPoh M.D., or gave me things with M.D. on them. How this is fixed I have no clue. Better marketing?

I'm not saying it's an overnight fix, but put it this way ... right now, 6% of practicing physicians are DOs, by the time we are out and practicing, 20% of physicians will be DOs. By blunt force via the numbers alone, awareness will increase. Will it get to the point where people just associated DO with medical doctor??? Probably not. You can thank WebMD, House, MD, and everything else in the past 100 years in our society associating medicine with MD, but with the increase in numbers, awareness, at a minimum, will increase.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Old habits die hard. I don't think it will be as soon as one hopes. It depends on where the graduates go. While most patients don't NOTICE during treatment, if you talk about medical education/stuff, it is almost always assumed MD. When I thought I was going to Nova, people would constantly congratulate me and mentioned they always saw me as MossPoh M.D., or gave me things with M.D. on them. How this is fixed I have no clue. Better marketing?

Word on the street is that they are working on getting rid of the USMLE and COMLEX and making 1 exam for both DO and MD. Although I do not see how this will work since MDs do not get taught OMM.

 

[ShyRem]

This I have not heard, EMT2ER-DOC. I have heard a plan to get rid of step 1 and only have two board exams - one end of third year, one intern year. But I had not heard of merging USMLE and COMLEX. What would they do about the OMM questions?

 

[NontradICUdoc]

This I have not heard, EMT2ER-DOC. I have heard a plan to get rid of step 1 and only have two board exams - one end of third year, one intern year. But I had not heard of merging USMLE and COMLEX. What would they do about the OMM questions?

I have no idea but apparently at the last national meeting for admission coordinators, this did come up.

 

[faith2]

I promised myself that I would be starting medical school next year. My first choice was MD school , and if I did not get in I would be happy with DO school. The reason for this is that DO schools looks at an applicant differently than MD schools do. I have shadowed both MD and DO's and I do not see a difference they were both qualified. Since I got accepted to both I decided to follow the MD route. The only thing I am confused about is the tuition at DO schools they often tend to be higher, as well as the down payment, and the fact that you can not get your money back if you change your mind. I do not like the constant bickering amongst ourselves who is better when we both contribute to the profession equally. I am not promoting the military for anyone, but the first thing my recruiter said to me was they do not care about MD or DO they are both physicians and are respected as such, and there are not matches based on this. We are all going to be great doctors and I hope we can learn and grow together.

 

[faith2]

Please do not get offended it is easier to get into a carib school than a do school. I have met people that could not get into DO or MD here, but the had 3 acceptances to carrib schools.

Are you kidding? Getting into a DO school is much harder than getting into a Caribbean school. The only Caribbean school I know that actually rejects students is SGU and even compared to DO programs its a lot easier to get into, in fact SGU accepts about 25 percent of applicants, the easier DO schools never accept more than 10 percent of applicants.

Most people in the Caribbean are there because they really had no other options, the ones who went to the Caribbean on purpose are in the upper 5 to 10 percent of the class who just wanted the "MD".

As far as more doors open for you as an MD its not necessarily true unless you are a US MD.

 

[salazaar]

This I have not heard, EMT2ER-DOC. I have heard a plan to get rid of step 1 and only have two board exams - one end of third year, one intern year. But I had not heard of merging USMLE and COMLEX. What would they do about the OMM questions?

I just heard about the possibility of combining the tests at my PNWU interview. I imagine that OMM would be a separate section just for the DO applicants.

 

[Trogghunter]

personally i'd rather go to MSU COM than several MD schools...given the fact that it's extremely reputable and it's a Big 10 school...never short of a good time.