DO cardiologist?

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pakbabydoll

pakbabydoll

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Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
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pakbabydoll said:
Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
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Can you do it? yes. I've talked to a D.O. cardiologist.

Is it harder? asking idealistic osteopathic pre-meds, they'll probably say no. But many of the D.O.'s I know (specialty and family practice) do say it's a bit more leg work to get into competitive residencies. That doesn't mean that you can't do it, but from what i've heard, you have to put more into it than say allopathic students.
 
pakbabydoll said:
Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
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Well, I'm no expert, but since cardiology is a fellowship, I'm thinking they'd be more interested in how you did in your IM residency than anything else. I also have an uncle that's a DO cardiologist, so at least it's certainly possible...haha.
 
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DO's cannot do cardiology fellowships or cardiothorasic surgery residencies. Only family practice.
 
superfan56 said:
DO's cannot do cardiology fellowships or cardiothorasic surgery residencies. Only family practice in desolate areas of the united states treating only the elderly and there practice is only limited to homeopathic remedies, chiropractology, meditation, and chelation therapy
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👍
 
MaximusD said:
I wish that they taught us anatomy, histology, and radiology during Structured Pricnciples of Osteopathic Medicine instead of voodoo and magnetic therapy. Oh man...
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I think that there should be at least some biochemistry, physiology, and pharmacology taught before granting the doctor of osteopathic medicine degree. It would also be helpful if they did rotations at real hospitals where md's work at instead of the rural, family clinic tents in underserved areas.
 
Lokhtar said:
On a side note - when I told my mom I might be going to an osteopathic school, she was ecstatic. Apparently she thought it was the same thing as Aryuvedic medicine and I'd live in a temple and learn from the priest (not joking). She looked at me and said, 'But you've always hated going to temples! This is great for you'.

I just said, 'Yea, but I changed my mind.' I plan to tell her the truth after I graduate. 😀
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:laugh::laugh::laugh: Wow, that's freaking hilarious! I actually LOL'd! 😀
 
getting back on subject: cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist are totally different professions. one is crying right now and another is taking fat pay checks to bank...

I am getting tired of these questions. It's time that mods start removing these threads. Its ruining this forum section
 
Porco Rosso said:
getting back on subject: cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist are totally different professions. one is crying right now and another is taking fat pay checks to bank...
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Which gets the fat paycheck?
 
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Porco Rosso said:
getting back on subject: cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist are totally different professions. one is crying right now and another is taking fat pay checks to bank...

I am getting tired of these questions. It's time that mods start removing these threads. Its ruining this forum section
Click to expand...

I am surprised a Texas Tri-athlete has not started a "satire" thread called "D.O.s in primary care? Is it possible?"
 
Wait ... osteopaths can practice traditional western medicine??? Huh? Has anyone else heard of this ....
 
Well I live in the middle of nowhere in eastern Idaho and we have at least two DO cardiac surgeons in the area. Like anything it is alot of work just as it would be going to an allopathic medical school. I wish people would just understand that as a DO you can go into ANY medical specialty. The key is to get yourself there through hard work. Getting admitted into a DO or MD medical school does not guarantee yourself any specialty, only your determination can do that!
 
Jpc984 said:
I am surprised a Texas Tri-athlete has not started a "satire" thread called "D.O.s in primary care? Is it possible?"
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I was, too, until I realized Tex is interviewing at PCOM-GA today. 👍

Get some, people, get some!!!
 
Right now CT Surgery fellowship is NOT competitive at all (Duke had to advertise their open spots due to not filling and lack of interest). Now it's that darn ACGME General Surgery that you have to worry about 😀
 
I heard most DO's can only practice in family medicine and voodoo...but even the voodoo residencies are hard to get into 🙄.
 
HristosKaran said:
I heard most DO's can only practice in family medicine and voodoo...but even the voodoo residencies are hard to get into 🙄.
Click to expand...

You have to have TIP-TOP grades in your potion making lab to get into a voodoo residency. Those people are constantly in the dungeon studying!!
 
PatriotsForever said:
Well I live in the middle of nowhere in eastern Idaho and we have at least two DO cardiac surgeons in the area. Like anything it is alot of work just as it would be going to an allopathic medical school. I wish people would just understand that as a DO you can go into ANY medical specialty. The key is to get yourself there through hard work. Getting admitted into a DO or MD medical school does not guarantee yourself any specialty, only your determination can do that!
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Thanks that makes me feel better...In order to practice as a cardio-surgeon and be a DO i would have to live in the middle of no where idaho....

Actually...my close friend is doing a fellowship in Cardiology and he went to NOVA...I asked him why he moved to Michigan from Florida and he said this was the only place where he could get the fellowship...Michigan really respects DOs and there is no difference between MD and DO in michigan...i think this is primarly due to MSUCOM's reputation in the state.
Having said that... in order to get such a fellowship (either in cardiothoracic surgeory or cardiology) you not only have to do well in ur Resedency, you have to be involved in a lot of research to boost ur resume...
 
Damn...I though I took the MCAT so that I could be a candy stripper; albeit one with magic voodoo candy, but a candy stripper none the less 🙁

On a side note, I realized while typing this that the difference between a candy stripper and a naughty girl covered in candy is one 'p' 😀
 
Having said that... in order to get such a fellowship (either in cardiothoracic surgeory or cardiology) you not only have to do well in ur Resedency, you have to be involved in a lot of research to boost ur resume...

This is not limited to DOs though. Not every MD that applies to a fellowship gets one... They need research as well.
 
Jpc984 said:
Having said that... in order to get such a fellowship (either in cardiothoracic surgeory or cardiology) you not only have to do well in ur Resedency, you have to be involved in a lot of research to boost ur resume...

This is not limited to DOs though. Not every MD that applies to a fellowship gets one... They need research as well.
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I agree 100 percent..I know in michigan there is generally no difference between MDz and DO but we have to keep in mind that its not what you know but who you know sometimes....
Its easier over here to become an orthopedic surgeon as a DO because there are so many that are DOs that went to MSUCOM
Its a lot easier to become an anesthisologist as an MD because they have connections....
This is all general...In the end of the day if you work hard and do everything right you can do anything u want from primary care to cardiology
 
you not only have to do well in ur Resedency, you have to be involved in a lot of research to boost ur resume..
Click to expand...

When you say research, do you mean in undergrad or during medical school/residency?
 
pakbabydoll said:
When you say research, do you mean in undergrad or during medical school/residency?
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Por general, cada tiempo tu empiezas un nuevo parte de tu vida, empiezas [fresh].

Dunno why I wrote in spanish-ish. Anyway, I think you'll find that each time you get to a next level of your education you have to start anew. When you applied to med school, your high school grades and accomplishments really didn't count for anything. Same with residency for the most part. I would say that major research projects that you PARTICIPATED IN in undergrad still have some relevance, but only if they show a persistent devotion. It will be much more impressive if your research is at the med school level...
 
pakbabydoll said:
Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
Click to expand...

Pakbabydoll, it probably requires more pushing to get the right residency and to network in that field as an Osteopath, but it's definitely do-able. My friend's uncle is one of the most successful cardiologists in NYC and he is D.O, so no worries! 🙂.
 
I just finished graduate-research in cardiology in Philly -- one of the "big-shot" docs there was a DO. My graduate-advisor was a DO -- radiologist. You can do what ever you want as a DO -- it'a myth that they can only do primary care!
 
pakbabydoll said:
Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
Click to expand...

I'm sure some or most of the following points have already been said here, but it's hard to tell in a thread full of the typical "DOs can do anything they want! It's not Eastern medicine and its not just for family practice anymore" replies. As someone with some interest in both these fields, as well as the D.O. vs. M.D. thang, I've researched it quote a bit.

1.) Cardiology is a completely different field than Cardiothoracic Surgery. The path is different all the way back to residency. A cardiologist does a cards fellowship after a meds residency; a heart surgeon does a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship after a general surgery residency.

2.) Although it's slightly harder to do a gen surg residency than an IM residency, it's much harder to get into a Cards fellowship than a Cardiothoracic Surgery fellowship. So if you're worried about being good enough to get into the field, do the surgery residency, not the IM->Cards route.

3.) Both cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons make a LOT of money. At this point, it's easier to find a job as a cardiologist (~$400k), but cardiothoracic surgeons (~$600k) still bank more cash if and when they do land a job.

4.) While it's certainly POSSIBLE to do anything you want as a D.O., it's more PROBABLE to get into the really hard specialties as an M.D. You will be held to a higher standard as a D.O. and it will always be more of an uphill climb. For the geniuses, they would do just as well as a D.O. as they would as an M.D. For the "average" med students, they would have an advantage with an M.D. instead of the D.O. on the resume as sometimes people will look for any silly reason to reject a borderline candidate. All else being exactly equal, the (U.S.-trained) M.D. will often get chosen over the D.O. in most competitive fields.
 
Doctor said:
I'm sure some or most of the following points have already been said here, but it's hard to tell in a thread full of the typical "DOs can do anything they want! It's not Eastern medicine and its not just for family practice anymore" replies. As someone with some interest in both these fields, as well as the D.O. vs. M.D. thang, I've researched it quote a bit.

1.) Cardiology is a completely different field than Cardiothoracic Surgery. The path is different all the way back to residency. A cardiologist does a cards fellowship after a meds residency; a heart surgeon does a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship after a general surgery residency.

2.) Although it's slightly harder to do a gen surg residency than an IM residency, it's much harder to get into a Cards fellowship than a Cardiothoracic Surgery fellowship. So if you're worried about being good enough to get into the field, do the surgery residency, not the IM->Cards route.

3.) Both cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons make a LOT of money. At this point, it's easier to find a job as a cardiologist (~$400k), but cardiothoracic surgeons (~$600k) still bank more cash if and when they do land a job.

4.) While it's certainly POSSIBLE to do anything you want as a D.O., it's more PROBABLE to get into the really hard specialties as an M.D. You will be held to a higher standard as a D.O. and it will always be more of an uphill climb. For the geniuses, they would do just as well as a D.O. as they would as an M.D. For the "average" med students, they would have an advantage with an M.D. instead of the D.O. on the resume as sometimes people will look for any silly reason to reject a borderline candidate. All else being exactly equal, the (U.S.-trained) M.D. will often get chosen over the D.O. in most competitive fields.
Click to expand...


(See user status: 'Pre-Med.') You have no idea about any of this, you are just spewing up things you have read on SDN etc etc ...
 
Doctor said:
I'm sure some or most of the following points have already been said here, but it's hard to tell in a thread full of the typical "DOs can do anything they want! It's not Eastern medicine and its not just for family practice anymore" replies. As someone with some interest in both these fields, as well as the D.O. vs. M.D. thang, I've researched it quote a bit.

1.) Cardiology is a completely different field than Cardiothoracic Surgery. The path is different all the way back to residency. A cardiologist does a cards fellowship after a meds residency; a heart surgeon does a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship after a general surgery residency.

2.) Although it's slightly harder to do a gen surg residency than an IM residency, it's much harder to get into a Cards fellowship than a Cardiothoracic Surgery fellowship. So if you're worried about being good enough to get into the field, do the surgery residency, not the IM->Cards route.

3.) Both cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons make a LOT of money. At this point, it's easier to find a job as a cardiologist (~$400k), but cardiothoracic surgeons (~$600k) still bank more cash if and when they do land a job.

4.) While it's certainly POSSIBLE to do anything you want as a D.O., it's more PROBABLE to get into the really hard specialties as an M.D. You will be held to a higher standard as a D.O. and it will always be more of an uphill climb. For the geniuses, they would do just as well as a D.O. as they would as an M.D. For the "average" med students, they would have an advantage with an M.D. instead of the D.O. on the resume as sometimes people will look for any silly reason to reject a borderline candidate. All else being exactly equal, the (U.S.-trained) M.D. will often get chosen over the D.O. in most competitive fields.
Click to expand...

Good post.

To the OP: if you're dead set on Cardiothoracic surgery, you'll have to do a General Surg. Residency first - either DO or MD. Allopathic Gen. Surgery programs are generally more difficult to get into as a DO, but it is possible if you're a standout student. Cardiothoracic surgery fellowships aren't all that competitive to enter because there aren't many people who want to put in that kind of time. Cardiology is pretty hot right now and IS quite competitive - along with GI.
 
DocRawk said:
Damn...I though I took the MCAT so that I could be a candy stripper; albeit one with magic voodoo candy, but a candy stripper none the less 🙁

On a side note, I realized while typing this that the difference between a candy stripper and a naughty girl covered in candy is one 'p' 😉
Click to expand...

Whats funny is you spelled it wrong each time. A candy striper (one "p") is the volunteer at the hospital. A candy stripper is the naughty girl covered in candy. Good try though, it was funny 😉 👍 😆
 
pakbabydoll said:
Is it harder for Doctor of Osteopathic medicine to get in to cardiac surgery as compared to MD?
Click to expand...

I didn't read the rest of the replies, so it may have already been asked. Cardiologist or cardiac surgery? Two very different fields/pathways with minor overlaps and dealing with the same organ.

I actually know more DO cardiologists personally...but I came from a rural-ish location. There were 3 DOs and 2 MDs...since cardiology is an internal medicine speciality it tends to be whoever shines during their IM residency...Overall, at this point it is one of the things I'd worry about least right next to what size white coat I'll need to order.
 
MossPoh said:
I didn't read the rest of the replies, so it may have already been asked. Cardiologist or cardiac surgery? Two very different fields/pathways with minor overlaps and dealing with the same organ.

I actually know more DO cardiologists personally...but I came from a rural-ish location. There were 3 DOs and 2 MDs...since cardiology is an internal medicine speciality it tends to be whoever shines during their IM residency...Overall, at this point it is one of the things I'd worry about least right next to what size white coat I'll need to order.
Click to expand...

Do DOs get the white coat???? God I hope so :meanie:
 
JaggerPlate said:
(See user status: 'Pre-Med.') You have no idea about any of this, you are just spewing up things you have read on SDN etc etc ...
Click to expand...

Actually, all the info I provided is sourced from the people here who have been through it all before (unlike you). Since you haven't been through the process anymore than I have, and you don't offer us anything that contradicts anything in my summary, I conclude that you just don't like hearing that DOs are often held to a higher standard than MDs, all else being equal. Such is life, my friend. You're free to research the topics as I have and generate your own conclusions.
 
Doctor said:
Actually, all the info I provided is sourced from the people here who have been through it all before (unlike you). Since you haven't been through the process anymore than I have, and you don't offer us anything that contradicts anything in my summary, I conclude that you just don't like hearing that DOs are often held to a higher standard than MDs, all else being equal. Such is life, my friend. You're free to research the topics as I have and generate your own conclusions.
Click to expand...

If you would like to read up on my post history ... I think you will notice that a. I am always the first one to admit that pre-meds no nothing, and b. that I am one of them, and do not claim to know a damn thing. With that being said, you did NOT cite anywhere that you have actually seen this happening first hand (I'm not saying that you haven't, what I am saying is that you didn't say why you knew this). I do know that I have worked in an emergency room at UCLA Santa Monica Hospital for over two years under the emergency medicine director, who was a DO. Never once did I see anyone without 100% respect for him, nor did he have to prove himself to any higher standard. My whole beef is that a medical degree is what you make out of it. You can't get an MD, be a crappy doctor, but expect to excel in medicine just because you possess the almighty 'MD.' Just the same way you can't get a DO, become an amazing doctor, and still be respected/below an inferior physician because he has different letters behind your name. The main reason why I nailed you is because you are just parroting the same stuff pre-allos post on this board all day long ... nothing new, and no experience necessary to blab over the internet. If you have seen this first hand, I would love to hear your experience.
 
Granted it's a slightly different field, but for what it's worth, a DO had just started his cardiology fellowship working with a pediatric electrophysiologist I shadowed last summer at a very nice pediatric hospital here in SLC.👍
 
Pediatric Electrophysiologist.. that just screams money. Well, at least it screams louder than your patients >.>a
 
JaggerPlate said:
Do DOs get the white coat???? God I hope so :meanie:
Click to expand...

Talking about coats, I love how at certain hospitals, certain specialties wear colored coats and scrubs.

1. checked out a surgery program, where all surgeon were in blue coats.
2. a trauma team on tv, they were all wearing pink scrubs.

I like it because it sets you apart from the overall hospital but also brings in the emphasis on teamwork
 
Porco Rosso said:
Talking about coats, I love how at certain hospitals, certain specialties wear colored coats and scrubs.

1. checked out a surgery program, where all surgeon were in blue coats.
2. a trauma team on tv, they were all wearing pink scrubs.

I like it because it sets you apart from the overall hospital but also brings in the emphasis on teamwork
Click to expand...

Sounds a little too Reservoir Dogs for me. Usually another good indictor of what team you are in is the part where it says "Dr. SoandSO" and underneath that it says "Cardiology" or "Surgery" 😛
 
Thank you guys for taking time and answering this question. I really appreciate it 🙂


Porco Rosso said:
Talking about coats, I love how at certain hospitals, certain specialties wear colored coats and scrubs.

1. checked out a surgery program, where all surgeon were in blue coats.
2. a trauma team on tv, they were all wearing pink scrubs.

I like it because it sets you apart from the overall hospital but also brings in the emphasis on teamwork
Click to expand...

At the hospital I work at we have color coded scrubs for every department.
Nurses- green/white
CNA/PCT- Pink/Red
Respiratory- white scrubs with blue coats
Pharmacy my department 😍Either regular dress clothes with a regular white lab coat or Blue scrubs with our lab coat! They just got everyone individual lab coats with our names and department on them.
 
JaggerPlate said:
If you would like to read up on my post history ... I think you will notice that a. I am always the first one to admit that pre-meds no nothing, and b. that I am one of them, and do not claim to know a damn thing. With that being said, you did NOT cite anywhere that you have actually seen this happening first hand (I'm not saying that you haven't, what I am saying is that you didn't say why you knew this). I do know that I have worked in an emergency room at UCLA Santa Monica Hospital for over two years under the emergency medicine director, who was a DO. Never once did I see anyone without 100% respect for him, nor did he have to prove himself to any higher standard. My whole beef is that a medical degree is what you make out of it. You can't get an MD, be a crappy doctor, but expect to excel in medicine just because you possess the almighty 'MD.' Just the same way you can't get a DO, become an amazing doctor, and still be respected/below an inferior physician because he has different letters behind your name. The main reason why I nailed you is because you are just parroting the same stuff pre-allos post on this board all day long ... nothing new, and no experience necessary to blab over the internet. If you have seen this first hand, I would love to hear your experience.
Click to expand...

Hi, sorry, it looks like we misunderstood one another. I've never had an experience where a DO attending was held to a higher standard than an MD attending, nor have I heard anyone else relay such an experience. In researching DOs though, I have heard from residency directors in uber-competitive fields that DOs are often held to a higher standard (i.e. higher board scores req'd to be competitive for a spot) than MD candidates. So although it's definitely possible, it's harder for DOs to get into the top IM residencies and harder for them to get into Cards fellowships. If they are lucky enough to get a fellowship, I don't think MD/DO matters at all beyond that point.
 
Doctor said:
Hi, sorry, it looks like we misunderstood one another. I've never had an experience where a DO attending was held to a higher standard than an MD attending, nor have I heard anyone else relay such an experience. In researching DOs though, I have heard from residency directors in uber-competitive fields that DOs are often held to a higher standard (i.e. higher board scores req'd to be competitive for a spot) than MD candidates. So although it's definitely possible, it's harder for DOs to get into the top IM residencies and harder for them to get into Cards fellowships. If they are lucky enough to get a fellowship, I don't think MD/DO matters at all beyond that point.
Click to expand...

I agree, especially in trying to nail MD IM residencies. I'm not one to like to start arguments on the board, and I'm glad you don't seem to be one either!! Sorry if my posts seemed harsh, I kinda naturally jump to the defensive of DOs when stuff like this comes up (because most of the time its pre-allos who really don't know what they are talking about, but just repeat what they read on SDN). No hard feelings!!👍

Also, I find it amazing that you joined her in 06 and no one had that username ... very nice :laugh:
 
Doctor said:
I'm sure some or most of the following points have already been said here, but it's hard to tell in a thread full of the typical "DOs can do anything they want! It's not Eastern medicine and its not just for family practice anymore" replies. As someone with some interest in both these fields, as well as the D.O. vs. M.D. thang, I've researched it quote a bit.

1.) Cardiology is a completely different field than Cardiothoracic Surgery. The path is different all the way back to residency. A cardiologist does a cards fellowship after a meds residency; a heart surgeon does a cardiothoracic surgery fellowship after a general surgery residency.

2.) Although it's slightly harder to do a gen surg residency than an IM residency, it's much harder to get into a Cards fellowship than a Cardiothoracic Surgery fellowship. So if you're worried about being good enough to get into the field, do the surgery residency, not the IM->Cards route.

3.) Both cardiologists and cardiothoracic surgeons make a LOT of money. At this point, it's easier to find a job as a cardiologist (~$400k), but cardiothoracic surgeons (~$600k) still bank more cash if and when they do land a job.

4.) While it's certainly POSSIBLE to do anything you want as a D.O., it's more PROBABLE to get into the really hard specialties as an M.D. You will be held to a higher standard as a D.O. and it will always be more of an uphill climb. For the geniuses, they would do just as well as a D.O. as they would as an M.D. For the "average" med students, they would have an advantage with an M.D. instead of the D.O. on the resume as sometimes people will look for any silly reason to reject a borderline candidate. All else being exactly equal, the (U.S.-trained) M.D. will often get chosen over the D.O. in most competitive fields.
Click to expand...


Not an unrealistic argument, but oversimplified. It depends on region, hospital, and PD as well as the characteristics of the strong candidates. There ARE MD programs that love DO candidates... in philly, even with the huge academic universities, we get very competitive allopathic spots each and every year from PCOM..
 
Lets return to the scrubs color stuff. I liked that more.
 
I'm sure its hard, but not impossible. I shadowed a DO cardiologist at The University of Chicago Medical Center, which is probably one of the best hospitals and medical schools in the nation. So for a DO to be a cardiologist at such a well respected institution tells you that it is very posssilbe.
 
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