DO - Degree Change ...

[bkpa2med]

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Members don't see this ad.

Everyone has seen the article about this issue in the DO Magazine. Someone has begun a petition for it with hopes of getting 1,000 signatures and sending it to the AOA. Your name can be anonymous on the website and the person who started this just asks that you use your respective school email address in order to validate to the AOA it is you.

Here is the link for anyone is in interested in a change for MD,DO or MDO.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/DO-Degree-Change

 

[Milamber]

Everyone has seen the article about this issue in the DO Magazine. Someone has begun a petition for it with hopes of getting 1,000 signatures and sending it to the AOA. Your name can be anonymous on the website and the person who started this just asks that you use your respective school email address in order to validate to the AOA it is you.

Here is the link for anyone is in interested in a change for MD,DO or MDO.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/DO-Degree-Change

Alright... this is just plain stupid. If you want to be a physician then it shouldn't matter if you are MD or DO. But if you really only want to be a MD it seems to me like you are in it for the letters rather than the craft. You apply and get accepted to a school, if you don't like the degree then don't go simple as that. Stop buying into the media generalization that MD=physician only.

 

[djnels01]

Not this again...

 

[bkpa2med]

Alright... this is just plain stupid. If you want to be a physician then it shouldn't matter if you are MD or DO. But if you really only want to be a MD it seems to me like you are in it for the letters rather than the craft. You apply and get accepted to a school, if you don't like the degree then don't go simple as that. Stop buying into the media generalization that MD=physician only.

That's not the reason for this. Don't make judgements before you even begin your road. The idea behind this petition is to get the AOA to respond to their own article of bringing up the idea of a Degree Change.

To be honest, this has nothing to with us who are becoming DO's. We all know we are fully qualified and equal in every respective way. This is for the general public awareness. Many may argue their point but I know that at least 80% of each osteopathic class most likely agrees with this.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

That's not the reason for this. Don't make judgements before you even begin your road. The idea behind this petition is to get the AOA to respond to their own article of bringing up the idea of a Degree Change.

To be honest, this has nothing to with us who are becoming DO's. We all know we are fully qualified and equal in every respective way. This is for the general public awareness. Many may argue their point but I know that at least 80% of each osteopathic class most likely agrees with this.

That's the problem - the AOA didn't bring it up. It was a group of students who began complaining that there isn't a "M" in our designation, like the "MDs" have.

This has nothing to do with the actual practice of medicine, and has everything to do with the egos of some pre-meds and med students who feel slighted by not being accepted to an allopathic medical school.

I forget who it was, but someone on SDN posted something to the effect that "you're just angry that you can't walk into a bar and impress a chick by saying 'I'm a DO'"

I think that explains it about perfectly.

The people who are for a change to the degree want nothing more than to be MDs when they didn't or couldn't go to an allopathic med school.

Be happy with who and what you are.

jd

 

[DocFox]

"you're just angry that you can't walk into a bar and impress a chick by saying 'I'm a DO'"

WHAT?!?! I CAN'T!?!?!?!😱

Then why am I putting myself through this?

 

[Buckeye4life]

Dang, bkpa. Always trying to stir up trouble. I say we shoot the messenger.😀

 

[MichiganDO]

Well done. Nice to see someone taking an initiative.
Keep up the fight.

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/DO-Degree-Change

 

[bkpa2med]

Dang, bkpa. Always trying to stir up trouble. I say we shoot the messenger.😀

😆

 

[It'sElectric]

That's not the reason for this. Don't make judgements before you even begin your road. The idea behind this petition is to get the AOA to respond to their own article of bringing up the idea of a Degree Change.

To be honest, this has nothing to with us who are becoming DO's. We all know we are fully qualified and equal in every respective way. This is for the general public awareness. Many may argue their point but I know that at least 80% of each osteopathic class most likely agrees with this.

I swear, it's only on SDN where random percentages/statistics are thrown around like there's no tomorrow in an attempt to argue an individual's point.

The fact of the matter is, I've personally never met a DO that spent any portion of his/her time trying to change the letters behind his/her name. They're too busy with LIFE - career, family, hobbies, etc. This really is an insecurity seen almost exclusively in pre-meds and some med students.

I don't go to the dental boards, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a weekly thread dedicated to the DDS students advocating for a change to DMD or DDMD, or DDSDDFSEFDJKL.

If you really are starving for attention and validation, then simply go into a bar and say, "Hi, my name is Fatty McFatty Pants (stealing from EM forum, I know), and I'm a physician." I'm pretty sure the well-endowed, bleach-blond chick at the bar won't retort with, "So is that MD or DO or MDO?" If she asks anything related to your grossly insecure opening line (which is unlikely), she'll ask what kind of physician.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I swear, it's only on SDN where random percentages/statistics are thrown around like there's no tomorrow in an attempt to argue an individual's point.

The fact of the matter is, I've personally never met a DO that spent any portion of his/her time trying to change the letters behind his/her name. They're too busy with LIFE - career, family, hobbies, etc. This really is an insecurity seen almost exclusively in pre-meds and some med students.

It's nice to see that someone is arguing a sweeping, generalized statement with another sweeping, generalized statement.

 

[sickofwaiting1]

Osteopathic medicine has been around for over 100 years, and guess what, nobody knows who we are!

It's not about whining or being ashamed of who we are, it's about public recognition, understanding and comfort.

If the public doesn't recognize that we are doctors, they won't understand what we do, and they won't be comfortable coming to us.

Clearly the AOA doesn't have a good PR group working for them, so it's time somebody told them to start changing something.

The truth is, the general public does not know what a DO is and that is a problem.

 

[KateGia]

Osteopathic medicine has been around for over 100 years, and guess what, nobody knows who we are!

It's not about whining or being ashamed of who we are, it's about public recognition, understanding and comfort.

If the public doesn't recognize that we are doctors, they won't understand what we do, and they won't be comfortable coming to us.

Clearly the AOA doesn't have a good PR group working for them, so it's time somebody told them to start changing something.

The truth is, the general public does not know what a DO is and that is a problem.

If this is your argument, then wouldn't changing the letters just put us back to ground zero. There are LOTS of people out there who know what a DO are. Most of the people I've come across that didn't know what it was have been very receptive to my explanation. Sure there are people out there that aren't, but who cares. If you all of a sudden change the letters, NO ONE will know what it is. People will be like, "well, I know what an MD is, and I know what a DO is, but what the hell is an MDO?" Unless you're petitioning for us all to be called MD, there will always be people who won't see it as "equal." Just accept it and move on.

If your real concern is about recognition, then you'd be better off trying to start a campaign to educate the nation on what a DO is. Petition some of the medical tv shows to have DOs on it (everyone will know what it is if it's on Grey's, haha) or somethink like that. Try to start a commercial advertisement campaign. Be proud of the distinction, not ashamed of it.

 

[futuredo32]

If your real concern is about recognition, then you'd be better off trying to start a campaign to educate the nation on what a DO is. Petition some of the medical tv shows to have DOs on it (everyone will know what it is if it's on Grey's, haha) or somethink like that. Try to start a commercial advertisement campaign. Be proud of the distinction, not ashamed of it.

The AOA had a ridiculous campaign to try to get tv shows to have characters that were DOs and it went nowhere as far as I know. I really don't think the public should be getting this kind of information from fictional tv shows. A few weeks ago, Eli Stone (a lawyer on an ABC show) was representing a family who claimed their kid was autistic due to vaccines. Do we really want the public to be educated by tv shows?

 

[studentDO]

Everyone has seen the article about this issue in the DO Magazine. Someone has begun a petition for it with hopes of getting 1,000 signatures and sending it to the AOA. Your name can be anonymous on the website and the person who started this just asks that you use your respective school email address in order to validate to the AOA it is you.

I only applied to DO schools. I could have easily gotten into an MD school -wasn't interested. I am adamantly opposed to a title change and I like it very much when someone asks me “what is a DO?”. Osteopathy is similar to allopathic medicine in many ways but ultimately the underlying philosophy is entirely different and I feel like we should remain distinct.

Sorry, but I had to throw my .02 in here because this topic always irritates me. If you want the letters MD behind your name then go to an MD school. Otherwise just call yourself a “Doctor”, after all that is what you are either way. If you are concerned about recognition in order to make money then I would suggest that you get an MBA. 10 years from now you will be worth at least a million. As a first year med student ten years from now you will be just out of residency and a half million in debt.

 

[VALSALVA]

I find it interesting that osteopathic medical students are officially referred to as OMS by the AOA. There is a clear reference to medicine in that title (the "M" for those who are a bit slow). Alternatively, there is no reference to medicine in "DO." What does an Osteopathic Medical Student become when he/she walks across the isle?? An Osteopathic Medical Doctor. Seems to be the most logical progression to me using the AOA's own terminology. Why is the AOA okay with "M" for the students but not for graduates? Maybe students should be referred to as "OS"?

Incidently, I'm not sure how practical changing the degree title would be so I'm not necessarily in favor of a change. However, it's an interesting topic and one where, again, the AOA is inconsistent. Personally, I don't give a crap what students or docs refer to themselves as. I'm just bringing up an observation.

 

[KateGia]

The AOA had a ridiculous campaign to try to get tv shows to have characters that were DOs and it went nowhere as far as I know. I really don't think the public should be getting this kind of information from fictional tv shows. A few weeks ago, Eli Stone (a lawyer on an ABC show) was representing a family who claimed their kid was autistic due to vaccines. Do we really want the public to be educated by tv shows?

Sadly, that is how the public gets most of their education. I don't see it as a problem as long as the information is factual. The Grey's comment was a joke (see the haha), but I see nothing wrong with a "public service announcement" type commercial about Osteopathic Medicine. THere are commercials for drugs, diseases, lawyers, etc, all of these that frequently make the job of a doctor more complicated. Why not have one that helps us? I think it's a better solution than completely changing our title and starting over.

 

[studentDO]

If your real concern is about recognition, then you'd be better off trying to start a campaign to educate the nation on what a DO is. Petition some of the medical tv shows to have DOs on it (everyone will know what it is if it's on Grey's, haha) or somethink like that. Try to start a commercial advertisement campaign. Be proud of the distinction, not ashamed of it.

I think the best course of action would be a solid marketing campaign in the area that you practice. Hold health seminars and introduce yourself. One thing Chiropractic schools have always done well is teach their students practice management and marketing principles.

 

[VALSALVA]

One thing Chiropractic schools have always done well is teach their students practice management and marketing principles.

{slathering on the sarcasm}And what course would you like to replace? Biochemistry? How about Pathology...that's not important.

In all seriousness, many physicians also run a business and, in general, docs are famously terrible at it (which is truly a backhanded compliment in my book). Every doc that runs his/her own business needs to be savvy, but don't make it a part of medical cirricula. Docs gotta do their homework...

 

[NJWxMan]

The article that interviews a number of practicing DO's makes some very valid points that support the change. I never believed that the change was worthy of the time and effort, but now I think a bit differently of the subject. As a soon-to-be fourth year medical student, I really don't have to deal with the disparity in the hospital of my initials; I'm simply introduced as a medical student. Perhaps, down the road, when patient seek my care, the initials may throw them a wrench. For me, it's less about equality with MD students and more about business challeges down the road while in practice.

 

[futuredo32]

Sadly, that is how the public gets most of their education. I don't see it as a problem as long as the information is factual. The Grey's comment was a joke (see the haha), but I see nothing wrong with a "public service announcement" type commercial about Osteopathic Medicine. THere are commercials for drugs, diseases, lawyers, etc, all of these that frequently make the job of a doctor more complicated. Why not have one that helps us? I think it's a better solution than completely changing our title and starting over.

I'm definitely not suggesting changing the title, I don't really care if it's DO or MD personally. I just don't know that a PSA would really help. With the DNP situation, perhaps it's better to try not to distinguish ourselves and instead present a united front with the MDs? I read an article in Redbook about the role of DOs in pain management and the description of what a DO is seemed kinda cheesy to me.

 

[It'sElectric]

Everyone keeps referring to the public not knowing what a DO specifically is, yet I have no idea how that's supposedly causing any sort of problem? Are DOs seeing less patients, making less money, prohibited from practicing an area of medicine, being told they're not real doctors by patients?? If these things aren't occurring, I don't understand the need to funnel millions of dollars into some sort of campaign to make the public aware of what a DO is. It seems to me that the mere fact that we're churning more DOs out than ever before will basically cover the whole national recognition on its own. Word of mouth.

Completely anecdotal, but I remember (pre-med days) having to drive my step-father to the ED after he severely sprained his ankle. Coincidentally, he was seen by a resident, who happened to be a recent DO graduate. He saw the letters and asked what they meant. She very quickly explained that she graduated from a DO school, which is just another path to becoming a medical doctor. That's the end of the story. My step-father didn't request a "real" doctor, and he was very quickly educated in the fact that a DO is a physician. I honestly feel this is the most effective way of educating the public (1 pt at a time).

Wide sweeping campaigns are more often than not annoying and generally ignored, unless done absolutely right. In fact, I'm pretty sure the AOA has tried these nationwide campaigns and failed miserably in the past.

 

[It'sElectric]

It's nice to see that someone is arguing a sweeping, generalized statement with another sweeping, generalized statement.

What part of my statement was generalized? If you think a practicing physician is more concerned with this issue than a pre-med or even med student, then I'd love to hear where your thought process is coming from. There's a reason these things are debated here and only here week after week. I think it's pretty simple, if you want an MD after your name, go Allopathic or Carib. I don't know how that can be made any clearer.

This should be a far, far greater concern of current med students all across the nation than the above silly debate.

 

[futuredo32]

This should be a far, far greater concern of current med students all across the nation than the above .

I agree that the link you posted as well as The DNP issue are much more significant.

 

[bkpa2med]

This thread has really gotten out of hand. I just simply posted the link for those who want a response from the AOA about this topic. That's all. I'm not arguing that anyone has issues with DO. Some people really need to be a bit less anal.

Someone should get this locked.

 

[J1515]

I forget who it was, but someone on SDN posted something to the effect that "you're just angry that you can't walk into a bar and impress a chick by saying 'I'm a DO'"

I think that explains it about perfectly.

The people who are for a change to the degree want nothing more than to be MDs when they didn't or couldn't go to an allopathic med school.

👍👍👍

There are many bigger problems that need to be fixed with osteopathic education before we start worrying about what stupid initials come after our name.

 

[J1515]

Osteopathic medicine has been around for over 100 years, and guess what, nobody knows who we are!

Do a little research and take a look how long DOs have been recognized as physicians in all 50 states. I think you will see it is nowhere even close to 100 years. I don't care how long DOs have been around. They only gained equal practicing rights "recently".

If the public doesn't recognize that we are doctors, they won't understand what we do, and they won't be comfortable coming to us.

Find me one DO who doesn't have enough patients and can't make a living because no one will see him. Until you can do that, there is no discussion here. The initials after our name don't effect how we practice medicine.

The truth is, the general public does not know what a DO is and that is a problem.

So the people who don't know, you explain it to them. What's the big deal?

 

[Buckeye4life]

What part of my statement was generalized? If you think a practicing physician is more concerned with this issue than a pre-med or even med student, then I'd love to hear where your thought process is coming from. There's a reason these things are debated here and only here week after week. I think it's pretty simple, if you want an MD after your name, go Allopathic or Carib. I don't know how that can be made any clearer.

This should be a far, far greater concern of current med students all across the nation than the above silly debate.

It's general because you state that by talking to a handful of DOs that this is representative of all DO's. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. But, the original statistic of 80% of students wanting a degree change was probably made from a position of talking to a lot of other students. I know the majority of students I talk to would not be opposed if there was a change. Also, this is being discussed elsewhere. If you go to DO-online.org there are over 200 posts exchanging ideas about the change with the current AOA president on his blog. This is more than likely what sprang the petitition in the first place because president Ajluni said that anyone's voice can be heard as long as it is brought in front of the house.

There have been posts from students, practicing physicians, and of course Dr. Ajluni. One post in particular aggravated me, which basically said a patient walked out of a physician's office once they found out they were seing a DO. Dr. Ajluni also stated that the AOA is still fighting discrimination behind the scenes.

It's only on SDN where you can't have civil discussions about this topic without getting flamed.

 

[Shinken]

Someone has begun a petition for it with hopes of getting 1,000 signatures and sending it to the AOA.

1,000 signatures?

According to this data: http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=aoa_ompreport_profession

there is a total of 61,379 DOs (not all active in practice), and a total of 14,409 DO students, for a grand total of 75,788 DOs and DO students. 1,000 signatures is less than 2% of that (more like 1.3%). That's meaningless.

If only DO students sign the petition, that would be about 7% of all students. Hardly a convincing number.

We should have Universal Healthcare! 7% of Americans want it! (see how unconvincing it is?)

 

[It'sElectric]

It's general because you state that by talking to a handful of DOs that this is representative of all DO's. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. But, the original statistic of 80% of students wanting a degree change was probably made from a position of talking to a lot of other students. I know the majority of students I talk to would not be opposed if there was a change. Also, this is being discussed elsewhere. If you go to DO-online.org there are over 200 posts exchanging ideas about the change with the current AOA president on his blog. This is more than likely what sprang the petitition in the first place because president Ajluni said that anyone's voice can be heard as long as it is brought in front of the house.

There have been posts from students, practicing physicians, and of course Dr. Ajluni. One post in particular aggravated me, which basically said a patient walked out of a physician's office once they found out they were seing a DO. Dr. Ajluni also stated that the AOA is still fighting discrimination behind the scenes.

If you re-read my post, you'll see that I was only referring to DOs I've personally met. I didn't make a sweeping statement such as "80% of all practicing DOs...".

Maybe it's just me, but over 200 posts on the president's blog (with a large portion of them from students) in regards to this issue doesn't seem like a big deal to me. There are over 50,000 practicing DOs right now and an expected growth to nearly 100,000 by 2020. Personally, those numbers are far more impressive to me.

This is another case of the vocal minority with some extreme cases being used as the primary argument.

 

[sexyman]

If only DO students sign the petition, that would be about 7% of all students. Hardly a convincing number.

Why would you assume the rest of the 93% saw the petition and refused to sign?

 

[Buckeye4life]

If you re-read my post, you'll see that I was only referring to DOs I've personally met. I didn't make a sweeping statement such as "80% of all practicing DOs...".

Maybe it's just me, but over 200 posts on the president's blog (with a large portion of them from students) in regards to this issue doesn't seem like a big deal to me. There are over 50,000 practicing DOs right now and an expected growth to nearly 100,000 by 2020. Personally, those numbers are far more impressive to me.

This is another case of the vocal minority with some extreme cases being used as the primary argument.

Sorry that 200 doesn't impress you. Wasn't trying to. You just said that this isn't discussed anywhere else, and I just showed that it is.

As for the projected growth, I think it is important that we discuss and settle on a degree that accurately represents and satisfies the majority of those 100,000 physicians, many of whom are currently students.

 

[nascardoc]

I find it interesting that osteopathic medical students are officially referred to as OMS by the AOA. There is a clear reference to medicine in that title (the "M" for those who are a bit slow). Alternatively, there is no reference to medicine in "DO." What does an Osteopathic Medical Student become when he/she walks across the isle?? An Osteopathic Medical Doctor. Seems to be the most logical progression to me using the AOA's own terminology. Why is the AOA okay with "M" for the students but not for graduates? Maybe students should be referred to as "OS"?

Incidently, I'm not sure how practical changing the degree title would be so I'm not necessarily in favor of a change. However, it's an interesting topic and one where, again, the AOA is inconsistent. Personally, I don't give a crap what students or docs refer to themselves as. I'm just bringing up an observation.

Out of all these silly discussions about initials and crap, this is the only one I've seen that I like, and makes sense. The biggest problem with changing the initials is that no matter what they are changed to, you will still have to explain to people when they ask. I think most of this wanting to change initials is pre-med paranoia, but there are some valid arguments. Once you explain the difference, patients don't care as long as the doc is not a tool. But I guaran-damn-tee you that if the doc is a tool, they will remember the DO part. I personally don't mind being a DO, but if they changed it to OMD, that I would be cool with. I really don't like MDO myself.

 

[bkpa2med]

I don't think MD, DO needs much explaining.

 

[scpod]

I find it interesting that osteopathic medical students are officially referred to as OMS by the AOA. There is a clear reference to medicine in that title (the "M" for those who are a bit slow). Alternatively, there is no reference to medicine in "DO." What does an Osteopathic Medical Student become when he/she walks across the isle?? An Osteopathic Medical Doctor. Seems to be the most logical progression to me using the AOA's own terminology. Why is the AOA okay with "M" for the students but not for graduates? Maybe students should be referred to as "OS"?
....

The change was made to OMS because the AOA wanted something distinctively different from MS-- something with "Osteopathic" in it. DO and MD are already distincty different, so there is no reason to change those.

Besides, the OMS thing isn't a part of the written legislation in 50 US states and many other countries. It isn't an earned degree designation. It affects only students who choose to use it and really has very little meaning at all. Plus, it doesn't cost anyone a single dime to start signing OMS instead of MS. What it really does mostly is confuse people who read it in a chart and have never seen it before.

Honestly, the recognition argument is the silliest thing of all, though. When less than 10% of active doctors are DOs, it's no wonder that more people haven't heard of them. As the numbers grow, so will the recognition.

 

[DocMiracle82]

The degree Doctor of Medicine and Osteopathy (MD, DO) more accurately reflects our training as we learn everything that the MD's learn plus something extra (OMM) hence the DO designation. Having the MD designation in addition to the DO will also solve the problem of international licensing rights and save the AOA time and money in trying to persuade the international medical community that our degree is at par with the MD degree

 

[USArmyDoc]

The degree Doctor of Medicine and Osteopathy (MD, DO) more accurately reflects our training as we learn everything that the MD's learn plus something extra (OMM) hence the DO designation. Having the MD designation in addition to the DO will also solve the problem of international licensing rights and save the AOA time and money in trying to persuade the international medical community that our degree is at par with the MD degree

Agree.....I see this all the time on these boards that a DO is a MD + OMM.

I do happen to believe this, but I do NOT support a degree change. If it is to happen though, I support MD, DO and no way OMD!! OMD will bring just as much confusion. What the heck is wrong with you guys!?!? ASk someone what a OMD and they will not understand. If you are so sincerely worried about this, MD, DO would be the most accurate and will clear up any misunderstandings immediately.

 

[Shinken]

Why would you assume the rest of the 93% saw the petition and refused to sign?

I'm not assuming anything. The petition site appears to be only seeking 1,000 signatures and that's it.

- Shinken, D.O.

 

[Shinken]

Honestly, the recognition argument is the silliest thing of all, though. When less than 10% of active doctors are DOs, it's no wonder that more people haven't heard of them. As the numbers grow, so will the recognition.

This concept is incredibly, incredibly difficult to understand for many pre-meds and current med students.

 

[gclax30]

The degree Doctor of Medicine and Osteopathy (MD, DO) more accurately reflects our training as we learn everything that the MD's learn plus something extra (OMM) hence the DO designation. Having the MD designation in addition to the DO will also solve the problem of international licensing rights and save the AOA time and money in trying to persuade the international medical community that our degree is at par with the MD degree

There's just one problem, you NEVER GOT THE MD degree you a$$. You enrolled in DO program by choice, you got a DO degree, live with it.

I did a BS and spent a few years doing research and taking graduate classes after, so I guess I'll just grant myself an imaginary Master's that I never earned.

Lame!!!! 👎

 

[DOanesthesia]

.

 

[J1515]

There's just one problem, you NEVER GOT THE MD degree you a$$. You enrolled in DO program by choice, you got a DO degree, live with it.

I did a BS and spent a few years doing research and taking graduate classes after, so I guess I'll just grant myself an imaginary Master's that I never earned.

Lame!!!! 👎

I'm a DO and I actually agree with you. Everyone knows what they are getting into. If you don't like it, then don't do it. Plain and simple.

 

[VALSALVA]

The change was made to OMS because the AOA wanted something distinctively different from MS-- something with "Osteopathic" in it. DO and MD are already distincty different, so there is no reason to change those.

OS or SO would be more distinct than OMS and more "true to the faith."

Sure, DO is distinct, but only folks in the medical community know that DO really means DO(M). I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Besides, the OMS thing isn't a part of the written legislation in 50 US states and many other countries. It isn't an earned degree designation. It affects only students who choose to use it and really has very little meaning at all. Plus, it doesn't cost anyone a single dime to start signing OMS instead of MS. What it really does mostly is confuse people who read it in a chart and have never seen it before.

Not the point at all. The laws don't matter. It's all about symbolism and what people perceive. "OMS" is a symbolic combination of recognition AND distinction. That's what matters.

Honestly, the recognition argument is the silliest thing of all, though. When less than 10% of active doctors are DOs, it's no wonder that more people haven't heard of them. As the numbers grow, so will the recognition.

This is true. The bigger and more important question is: will people care? In other words, will people choose to see a DO because he/she is a DO? I have my reservations based upon recent trends in residency training and the actual practice of OMM. Residency is where doctors truly learn the trade and the majority of recent grads trade in the allopathic world. On top of that, the majority of grads that train in DO programs experience a weak or non-existant OMM/DO theory component in the post-grad curricula.

 

[DeLaughterDO]

OS or SO would be more distinct than OMS and more "true to the faith."

Sure, DO is distinct, but only folks in the medical community know that DO really means DO(M). I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I'm personally pushing for all our degrees to be changes to QBCCLDG (The 'Q' is silent). I think this change would put our recognition on par with the president of the United States. We would no longer have to answer silly questions like, "What is a D.O.?" or "Are you a chiropractor?"

This one small change would really solve all our problems. And, having the most letters out of any medical professional (especially once you are board certified and add your fellowship in your professional society - DeLaughterDO, QBCCLDG, FACEP - for instance), noone will ever doubt our superiority

The "change" to OMS was ******ed and unnecessary. The AOA just didn't like not having total control over thoughts and actions in "the field."

I was an MS-III when the AOA made the "change." Guess what I continued to sign after my name: MS-III, then MS-IV once appropriate... superficial changes are useless and done more for EGO (usually someone else's) than need.

The bigger and more important question is: will people care?

This is the crux of the "change the degree" argument. These students/pre-meds feel slighted because every person in the world does not know what a DO is and does not give them the deference they feel they DESERVE when they are walking down the street or waiting in line at the grocery store.

In no way, will adding an "M" to our degree designation change the way we practice medicine. It will not bring about a cure for AIDS, or breast cancer. DOs (or whatever permutation of said with an "M" thrown in for good measure) will not be on the cover of magazines, on Oprah, or on the national news daily having our medical opinions sought because, "Oh, yeah, we have an "M" now!"

Give me a break.

Maybe we should change our designation to "M." No one will ever think we don't practice medicine that way, will they?

Get over yourselves. If you are shallow enough that is really is all about the MD degree, go to an allopathic medical school, and be happy in your vanity. Stop proselytizing to the rest of us. If you want to be a physician and help your patients (which is what this is all really about), put your nose to the books, learn your **** and do it. Stop worrying about whether John Q Public walking down the street knows that a DO is, so long as your patient knows you are the physician who is there to help them, isn't the war already won? Let this thing die. It's not worth the trouble we are all putting into it.

 

[Pansit]

I seriously think this is important that all students sign this....and before you jump out at me about this whole degree change thing, I think students signing something like this is MORE than just about some degree change, its about getting a voice in a profession that is controlled by a few who do not listen to concerning dissent and when asked about change, will explain that things can only happen if XYZ happens and then if legislation XYZ can get passed or just say we dont have the power to enact something like that go talk to XYZ....the AOA has a stranglehold on what goes on in this profession, they decide what is install for us....if you want to take an active role in YOUR FUTURE sign the petition...if we get this one small (some may say insignificant) change, then we will know how much students really do have a say within the profession. We have to work together, not work apart. Most people that are against the degree change are against it because they think it's meaningless and useless. But if you think that, then sign it for the fact that you are doing so in a response to your perceive feelings of the AOA's stranglehold of what goes on. The leadership decides that we have to have a joint match, the leadership decides we have to have two boards, that we have to do an internship in 5 states to be licensed yet we foot the bill in 200k debt in loans...those are very big important issues that will never be fixed until we come together, if you think the degree change is crap that is meaningless and useless than fine, but support your fellow student who dont think otherwise. If we want positive change in ANYTHING then help each other out. If you feel a degree change is completely evil and will sink the osteopathic ship, then by all means disagree...However, the AOA cant possibly ignore a petition signed on by 80% of the whole student body...we need a springboard for them to start listening to us...

 

[Bond8204]

I've yet to really read a compelling argument for why the initials should be "D.O." other than "because that's the way it is" or "we shouldn't have to change it" or "you knew what you were getting into."

I mean...these people who thumb their nose at the change--why do you give so much of a ****e? Do you seriously care if you can start to call yourself First Last, MD, DO?

It just seems the people who are opposed are apathetic as opposed to passionate toward the opposite view. Apathy is lame. Get out of the way of people who care about the situation.

Or just don't sign the petition. The OP is right, this thread is out of control.

 

[Pansit]

I've yet to really read a compelling argument for why the initials should be "D.O." other than "because that's the way it is" or "we shouldn't have to change it" or "you knew what you were getting into."

I mean...these people who thumb their nose at the change--why do you give so much of a ****e? Do you seriously care if you can start to call yourself First Last, MD, DO?

It just seems the people who are opposed are apathetic as opposed to passionate toward the opposite view. Apathy is lame. Get out of the way of people who care about the situation.

Or just don't sign the petition. The OP is right, this thread is out of control.

Most are apathetic and their reason is often..."It's a waste of time, there are other issues"...but like I said, if you think it's a waste, then sign the petition for the sole purpose in showing the AOA that the student body does have a voice and force the AOA to make a decision on something that will have some ramifications. Right now because the student body stays silent the AOA does everything they want willy nilly...we start signing petitions, start organizing, then they will either have to listen to us or ignore as completely, as which point their guise of "we are here for you" will be truly bunked. Practice what you preach AOA...if we get this petition and you still do nothing, then we know their true intentions...I would sign the petition just to see that. THIS IS NOT A PETITION TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DEGREE...its a petition to see if the AOA will actually respond. I will be very curious to see if 5000 people sign this thing and then the AOA will either say "so what" or give it some credence...at which point we can then push for bigger issues that right now they will just not listen to...

 

[bkpa2med]

Most are apathetic and their reason is often..."It's a waste of time, there are other issues"...but like I said, if you think it's a waste, then sign the petition for the sole purpose in showing the AOA that the student body does have a voice and force the AOA to make a decision on something that will have some ramifications. Right now because the student body stays silent the AOA does everything they want willy nilly...we start signing petitions, start organizing, then they will either have to listen to us or ignore as completely, as which point their guise of "we are here for you" will be truly bunked. Practice what you preach AOA...if we get this petition and you still do nothing, then we know their true intentions...I would sign the petition just to see that. THIS IS NOT A PETITION TO ACTUALLY CHANGE THE DEGREE...its a petition to see if the AOA will actually respond. I will be very curious to see if 5000 people sign this thing and then the AOA will either say "so what" or give it some credence...at which point we can then push for bigger issues that right now they will just not listen to...

This is the truth.

 

[amindwalker]

Ya know, I was just minding my own business studying for my Neuro final when I took a break & found this thread. First of all, I would like to put a shout out to my friends who have been posting on this thread (you know who you are & you prolly should be studying Neuro). The degree change was not the subject of this thread, but rather just an attempt to spread the 411 that there is a petition going around to see if the AOA will actually respond to the concept. bkpa2med wrote that in plain English.

There are many DO students, although I submit to you a minority, who turned down acceptances to US MD schools (I am not including the Carrib MD programs) because they said they "preferred the DO philosophy." What I find interesting, is that most of the people like that to whom I have spoken, seem to have no interest in OMT or primary care and are planning on going into Ortho, Radiology, Pathology, Anesthesia etc. I AM NOT saying that they are all like that everywhere, but simply that it is possible that some of the people that make such a claim are not being completely honest about something.

Think back to your first day of orientation. If the dean had said to your class "The AOA & the AMA have initiated a joint pilot program exclusively at our Osteopathic Medical School. When you graduate, you will have the opportunity to choose to receive either the DO degree or the MD degree. By a show of hands, how many of you would like to receive the MD degree on graduation day?" I shall not make any predictions about how many students in my class or yours would have raised their hands, I leave that to you to contemplate.

There appear to be two camps:

A) those who regard DOs as the elite few & want to stand out in the profession of medicine as being something different

B) those who want to practice medicine just like the MDs

I am in camp B. If you are in camp A, that's fine with me, but please show me the same respect and allow me to have my opinion and to responsibly express it. The flaming of bkpa2med, who was just kindly giving the heads up, was in my opinion, completely inapropriate.

I once asked a dentist about the differences between the DDS & DMD degrees. He explained simply that they were the same thing, it just depended on which school you went to. Psychologists can have a PhD or a PsyD. Vets can have a DVM or a VMD (I think it's VMD). THAT'S EXACTLY HOW I FEEL ABOUT THE MD AND DO DEGREES. Do I think there should be a degree change? The answer to that question belongs on another thread.

 

[It'sElectric]

This is the truth.

Interesting, considering this is exactly what is stated in the linked petition: "We the undersigned, support the movement to change the degree of Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.) and request the AOA to conduct a vote amongst the osteopathic community regarding this issue."

So how again is does this petition have nothing to do with changing the DO degree and everything to do with "seeing if the AOA will respond"???

I love the little disguise so many of you put on with the whole talk, "I just want to practice medicine, so that's why MD should be after my name...yadda, yadda, yadda." You just want the MD after your name to avoid having to explain things to future friends, patients, whomever. If you can't handle that, then you should have gone Allo or Carib.