Do dental schools care about...

[markthedent]

I had a few questions about ECs, first:
If you havent read my posts, i am a Canadian with a 2.87 GPA (got my summer grades in recently, helped a bit), a 20AA DAT, and 18 PAT (rewrote and F***** up on it).

I got a volunteer position (2 hours/week) in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking. Will this be considered under research? If yes, or no, is it a good thing on my app, cuz it does squeeze on my schedule. I just want to know how much its gonna help me! Iv been at it for a year and a half now. Thanks
I do other stuff, like volunteer at hospital, fraternity president, 1000s hour of shadowing 2 dentists (1 general, and 1 specialist).

I am not an URM.
I am not a non-traditional applicant
I am 21 years old.
I applied recently (september 3rd)

Any ideas how to become more competitive, seeing im international, please be (bluntly) honest...If you wanna also tell me what you think my chances are?!

Thanks everyone!

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[gumdrop16]

I had a few questions about ECs, first:
If you havent read my posts, i am a Canadian with a 2.87 GPA (got my summer grades in recently, helped a bit), a 20AA DAT, and 18 PAT (rewrote and F***** up on it).

I got a volunteer position (2 hours/week) in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking. Will this be considered under research? If yes, or no, is it a good thing on my app, cuz it does squeeze on my schedule. I just want to know how much its gonna help me! Iv been at it for a year and a half now. Thanks
I do other stuff, like volunteer at hospital, fraternity president, 1000s hour of shadowing 2 dentists (1 general, and 1 specialist).

I am not an URM.
I am not a non-traditional applicant
I am 21 years old.
I applied recently (september 3rd)

Any ideas how to become more competitive, seeing im international, please be (bluntly) honest...If you wanna also tell me what you think my chances are?!

Thanks everyone!

it is not going to help u. & it is not considered research, its volunteering.

 

[finchy86]

I think your GPA is the biggest problem. So I would focus on bringing that up. That won't really help you this cycle, but that is what needs to be done.

 

[Stacker]

I don't like being pessimistic but in your case, your chances are slim with that GPA. You don't have a high enough DAT to compensate. On top of that, you're an international. Research that counts is either a poster presentation or publication. You know...actual research with an experiment.

Post Bacc. or Master's. Possibly retake.

 

[autoclavemonkey]

You should consider a postbac program or a Master's. What you're doing in your lab currently is not helpful. You can try to talk to your PI. Be upfront about it and tell him you want to be part of a research team. Tell him/her that you'll do extra work on top of what you're doing, so you can learn the necessary techniques/work involved. But that also means you will have to commit A LOT more than 2 hours a week. I'm assuming you barely get your slave work done currently.

I agree with the rest here that with your current GPA and as an international student, the chances are slim. You can get by with that DAT imo but you'd need a higher GPA. Good luck.

 

[Stacker]

You can try to talk to your PI. Be upfront about it and tell him you want to be part of a research team. Tell him/her that you'll do extra work on top of what you're doing, so you can learn the necessary techniques/work involved.

No don't ask so soon. This is normal practice. Right now your status is "scrubby" and they expect you to do all the remedial chores before they feel like you're committed to stay for the long run and then give you a project. If it's been a month and you're still exclusively doing "scubby" work, then you can ask but usually they already know your intention is to do real research and they will give it to you once you're familiarized with the lab and the people in the lab. If it's a decent lab, they should also be training you while you're a scrubby.

How sexist.

 

[joshwake]

It's service yes, but it wont be very meaningful to the schools that weigh service heavily. I would highly reccomend looking into any local sealant programs or any other dental type service. It is definetly not research.

Your real problem though is a low end gpa with an average DAT. You will need a 22+ DAT with that kind of a gpa to have much of a chance. You are young though, you may want to consider looking into a biomedical science masters (I hear midwestern in Arizona has a good one and I think it is only a year). You can also do an MPH, but I would only consider that if you have a good sgpa. The good thing about an MPH is you can do it online, like through ATSU and work while you do it. That is the route I took and it has paid off.

 

[markthedent]

So i think i wasted my time doing that lab work, for the most part. It is all good. Im probably gonna re apply next year, ill do a smp and see how that goes. Any one else wanna share their opinions about my post?

 

[cakefacade]

I agree with what the others have said about your situation. What you're doing at the lab is NOT research.

Your GPA is lower compared to other Canadian applicants on this forum, and based on your DAT scores and ECs, chances are slim for an interview at this time. If I were you, I would work my ass off on a master's and apply again after that. Best of luck to you!

 

[markthedent]

Is a smp enough at a 3.70GPA? or am i better doing something with more credits? Seeing im canadian and everyone saying its harder for us....

 

[awaitsimpatient]

I had a few questions about ECs, first:
If you havent read my posts, i am a Canadian with a 2.87 GPA (got my summer grades in recently, helped a bit), a 20AA DAT, and 18 PAT (rewrote and F***** up on it).

I got a volunteer position (2 hours/week) in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking. Will this be considered under research? If yes, or no, is it a good thing on my app, cuz it does squeeze on my schedule. I just want to know how much its gonna help me! Iv been at it for a year and a half now. Thanks
I do other stuff, like volunteer at hospital, fraternity president, 1000s hour of shadowing 2 dentists (1 general, and 1 specialist).

I am not an URM.
I am not a non-traditional applicant
I am 21 years old.
I applied recently (september 3rd)

Any ideas how to become more competitive, seeing im international, please be (bluntly) honest...If you wanna also tell me what you think my chances are?!

Thanks everyone!

You have good DAT scores but you GPA is too low.. Almost all the schools require at least 3.0..Bring it up and apply again, You are very YOUNG and have a lot of time on your side , I will recommend you to take more classes and increase your GPA
OH, wait, I am confused, so if you are consider URM, then is OK to have low scores? huh?

 

[b0110]

I had a few questions about ECs, first:
If you havent read my posts, i am a Canadian with a 2.87 GPA (got my summer grades in recently, helped a bit), a 20AA DAT, and 18 PAT (rewrote and F***** up on it).

I got a volunteer position (2 hours/week) in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking. Will this be considered under research? If yes, or no, is it a good thing on my app, cuz it does squeeze on my schedule. I just want to know how much its gonna help me! Iv been at it for a year and a half now. Thanks
I do other stuff, like volunteer at hospital, fraternity president, 1000s hour of shadowing 2 dentists (1 general, and 1 specialist).

I am not an URM.
I am not a non-traditional applicant
I am 21 years old.
I applied recently (september 3rd)

Any ideas how to become more competitive, seeing im international, please be (bluntly) honest...If you wanna also tell me what you think my chances are?!

Thanks everyone!

Thats not really research if your not at least doing the research techniques. Also, only doing it 2 hours/week is really low even if it was doing real research. So that probably won't help you too much.

 

[autoclavemonkey]

No don't ask so soon. This is normal practice. Right now your status is "scrubby" and they expect you to do all the remedial chores before they feel like you're committed to stay for the long run and then give you a project. If it's been a month and you're still exclusively doing "scubby" work, then you can ask but usually they already know your intention is to do real research and they will give it to you once you're familiarized with the lab and the people in the lab. If it's a decent lab, they should also be training you while you're a scrubby.

How sexist.

Well, I don't want to put "him/her" every single time lol. I see where you're getting at. However, labs would usually tell you at start if you have a chance of getting more responsibility than just lab-maintenance chores, ESPECIALLY if it's a non-paid work. So I actually want to ask OP... if they did tell him this. I personally think it's unfair for them to make you do the scrubby volunteer work without any chances of moving up. If it's paid, it'd be a different story.

 

[markthedent]

hahah Im still at the bottom of the barrel, no pay, no offer. I would love to do actual research tho. To be honest i did this volunteering to help my app for dental school....not sure how much help itll get me....

 

[gumdrop16]

hahah Im still at the bottom of the barrel, no pay, no offer. I would love to do actual research tho. To be honest i did this volunteering to help my app for dental school....not sure how much help itll get me....

It wont help u. Quit. And enroll in classes instead. And pickup meaningfull volunteering if u want to volunteer. Like helping humans in some way....bc thats easier to find then research opportunities generally.
prepare for the worst and take classes, or apply for an MS. u need a gPa boost asap and without it, nothing will help u. Besides maybe a 26 on ur dat.

 

[markthedent]

I should quit it? Is it that useless?
Furthermore, is a smp at 3.70gpa gonna help me get in? Or would i need a post bacc (informal)+smp?

 

[markthedent]

??

 

[shootingstar7]

Don't quit. It is research experience. Just be sure to be honest about what your role was in the lab when you apply. Research is very helpful in getting into dental school, but its often hard to get into a position. You've got your foot in the door with this lab, just keep at it and opportunity will come.

 

[markthedent]

**** Really!! You think it is research!

 

[UCLAzy]

It is research experience.

facepalm.jpg

no wait

 

[shootingstar7]

facepalm.jpg

no wait

Why do you say this, did a dental school tell you doing dishes isnt good enough to list as research experience? Its better than not doing anything. Some universities dont have a lot of research opportunities for undergrads, and dental schools understand that.

 

[UCLAzy]

 

[finchy86]

...in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking.

This is not research...it is work in a lab, but not research. Kind of like all squares are also rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. No matter how hard you try to justify it this is not research. If you list it as research and then an interviewer asks you and all you can say is "I wash dishes and use the autoclave" I think it's going to be embarrassing for you and they are going to look at you funny.

I think it is a good experience and you should keep at it if possible and hopefully it will get you a foot into the door for research opportunities (collecting data, analyzing data, interpreting data).

 

[markthedent]

So i shouldnt put it under research? ALso what can i do to be more competitive. I can take a year of classes and bring it up to a 3.0 GPA (assuming i do really well). But is that enough as GPA is concerned? Should i reawlly keep doing bitch work at a lab or leave? There are no research oppurtinities for me, i can only do bithc work lol.

 

[finchy86]

I personally wouldn't put it under research. You can do whatever you like. GPA and DAT scores make up a large percentage of what is important to dental schools. ECs and other things are just icing on the cake. If you don't have the cake then the icing is useless. Keep applying to dental school until you get in. That's what I'd do.

 

[markthedent]

What should i do now tho?! Im a bit lost and nervous haha. So bluntly speaking, ill need atleast a masters (1 year) and an extra undergrad, for my GPA to be competitive since im a canadian? What should i do about the bitch work?

 

[cschoet]

Call a dental school admissions representative and pose your questions to them. They are much more knowledgeable than us regarding anything relating to applying (although some posters don't think so, lol).

We are apparently not providing clear enough answers to help you.

 

[LaughingGas]

I see biased answers regarding research. I'll answer according to what my mentor(dentist from UCLA) told me. He did say he worked at research lab, put research as EC, but what he actually end up doing is bottom level work. Regarding the school. SMP is fastest way to get in in your case, but most riskiest way, specially in your case that you haven't shown your capability of getting As during your undergrad. You have to consider, if you blow SMP, you are pretty much cut off any possible prehealth profession. Yes, 3.70 GPA at true SMP will get you somewhere.
Honestly, you are looking at least 2 year of academic enhancing. 1 year of postbac taking upper division bio classes, and 1 year of SMP or another year of postbac. By then possible have to retake DAT b/c of expiration date.
I asked one school regarding if matter if I take upper div bio classes or masters in biology. The advisor said "as long as you are taking heavy courseload and do well".
Hope this helps.
and yeah, best way to know what you have to do is contacting the admission advisor either by phone or in person.

 

[markthedent]

Thanks laughinggas,
and i did call a few, they werent very helpful. I wanted to know if a SMP with a good GPA there is enough with my 2.87 GPA undergrad? Do i really need another year undergrad to bring it over a 3.0 before i do a SMP?
Will that be enough then? I read places it could be enough, but i keep thinking since im Canadian its gonna take a lot more...?

 

[doc toothache]

I got a volunteer position (2 hours/week) in a research lab doing cleaning stuff, like dishes, and autoclaving, and stocking. Will this be considered under research? If yes, or no, is it a good thing on my app, cuz it does squeeze on my schedule. I just want to know how much its gonna help me! Iv been at it for a year and a half now. Thanks
I do other stuff, like volunteer at hospital, fraternity president, 1000s hour of shadowing 2 dentists (1 general, and 1 specialist).

You could start by cutting out your volunteer hours to zero and let someone else be the fraternity pres, unless you believe that, by some magic, they will improve your gpa.

 

[markthedent]

doc toothache, I was wondering if a SMP (with good GPA) will make me competitive even tho my undergrad GPA is below 3.0.
Thanks

 

[doc toothache]

doc toothache, I was wondering if a SMP (with good GPA) will make me competitive even tho my undergrad GPA is below 3.0.Thanks

It would depend on how well you fare in both the program and on the DAT.

 

[markthedent]

About a 3.60 GPA in SMP and a 20 DAT. Just as a goal...might that be enough?

 

[doc toothache]

About a 3.60 GPA in SMP and a 20 DAT. Just as a goal...might that be enough?

Where is that crystal ball when you need it?

 

[markthedent]

statistically speaking.....

 

[markthedent]

I just wanted to know statistically if a smp at 3.60 and a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA will suffice?

 

[Zbtb7]

I just wanted to know statistically if a smp at 3.60 and a sub 3.0 undergrad GPA will suffice?

There are no guarantees in this process, especially with a record as shaky as yours. It's just that based on SDN anecdotes and SMP programs' claims, individuals with poor undergrad gpas who excelled at SMPs (3.6+) have won acceptances. When predents.com was up, there were Americans who did well at SMPs and got in. I have no info to provide on how internationals fared.

Imagine that I'm an adcom. In order for me to accept you, you have to convince me to give you an offer at the expense of another applicant (actually several others). Now if I had the choice between someone who never faltered in their academic career or someone who did, I would choose the former. Why should I take a chance on someone who messed up when I can choose others who never messed up? One's SMP performance gives me a reason to accept someone who messed up over those who didn't. You have to excel and show that you're worth the gamble. I'd say a 3.6+ will probably do it. The hard part is getting that score in a reputable program as you have to score well above the average (but that's how you show the adcom you're much better than the average accepted student and thus worth the gamble).

Just a warning: SMP are made for the sole purpose of getting professional school. They provide woefully inadequate benefit in the job market (other science-based masters prime you to work in a lab).