DO discrimination

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johnnydrama said:
Tough to get from the MD path, near impossible from DO. Sorry.
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johnnydrama said:
The existence of the DO degree is silly.

All existing DO schools should convert to MD or close, and OMM should be relegated to the dustbin of history.
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It sounds like a DO stole your girlfriend :laugh:

Frankly, your posts on this thread so far have been either false, misleading, and/or outright pretentious. If you want to pretend that DOs don't have AOA residencies to train in, then yeah I guess its "nearly impossible" to become an orthopod from the DO route. But as someone mentioned, with their own residencies, 3.53% MD students matching and 2.53% DO students matching is not that huge of a difference for you to characterize it as "nearly impossible".

From experience, I can say that there are some OMM treatments that have amazing therapeutic effects and there are people who do want to be DOs. Yes, I know this idea might be incomprehensible to you, there are people out there who really want to be DOs, and plenty of them have the grades to go the MD route. While I'm sure there are plenty of DOs who agree with you, your position does not warrant you to denounce an entire profession in such a manner. The only people who should decide the future of their profession/degree is the DOs and your opinion is largely irrelevant.
 
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I didn't read the whole thread, so perhaps this has already been mentioned, but isn't the percentage of DOs who practice OMM after graduation like 30%?

That means the other 70% either went to DO school and fell out of favor with OMM while learning it, or they really just wanted to go to medical school and could not care less about OMM... Doesn't this statistic scare anyone?

I mean, I won't discriminate against a DO as a doc, because they had to pass boards, so obviously they're qualified to treat me, but in terms of acceptance to medical school, you have to admit DO is a back door for many applicants...
 
MaxillofacialMN said:
I didn't read the whole thread, so perhaps this has already been mentioned, but isn't the percentage of DOs who practice OMM after graduation like 30%?

That means the other 70% either went to DO school and fell out of favor with OMM while learning it, or they really just wanted to go to medical school and could not care less about OMM... Doesn't this statistic scare anyone?

I mean, I won't discriminate against a DO as a doc, because they had to pass boards, so obviously they're qualified to treat me, but in terms of acceptance to medical school, you have to admit DO is a back door for many applicants...
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No one said it isn't a back door for many applicants the same way podiatry is a backdoor for unsuccessful pre-MD/DO students. All I said was that there are people who actually want to become DOs, just like there are people who actually want to become podiatrists. These professions do not exist solely for people who want to be MDs and couldn't get in.
 
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DrMediterranean said:
No one said it isn't a back door for many applicants the same way podiatry is a backdoor for unsuccessful pre-MD/DO students. All I said was that there are people who actually want to become DOs, just like there are people who actually want to become podiatrists. These professions do not exist solely for people who want to be MDs and couldn't get in.
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Well I'd argue your comparison is a bit off because DOs can be in any specialty just like MDs, but I understand what you're saying.

Tons if people go to pod school that tried for MD but couldn't get in, luckily enough, I'm not one of them.
 
MaxillofacialMN said:
Well I'd argue your comparison is a bit off because DOs can be in any specialty just like MDs, but I understand what you're saying.

Tons if people go to pod school that tried for MD but couldn't get in, luckily enough, I'm not one of them.
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Not really. If people go to pod school because they can't get into medical school, it holds up the same exact way as people going to DO school because they can't get into MD schools. While podiatry may be more distinct as you mentioned, this really only applies to the people who wanted to go into these professions in the first place and it isn't relevant to the people who used it as a backdoor.
 
MaxillofacialMN said:
I mean, I won't discriminate against a DO as a doc, because they had to pass boards, so obviously they're qualified to treat me, but in terms of acceptance to medical school, you have to admit DO is a back door for many applicants...
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I don't want to get stuck in the sand traps of semantics (and I'm probably too late by responding here) but "back door" has a negative connotation and is not necessarily accurate. When I hear people using this term in medicine it's usually in reference to something like NPs or CRNAs who seek individual (autonomous) practicing rights. Back door implies sneaking in/cheating and while no one will deny that in general MD matriculation requires higher stats, the differences are not that great; to earn a seat in just about any US medical school is an accomplish. No one is sneaking in though.

Okay, my semantics babble is over.

This thread has drifted huh?
 
DrMediterranean said:
It sounds like a DO stole your girlfriend :laugh:

Frankly, your posts on this thread so far have been either false, misleading, and/or outright pretentious. If you want to pretend that DOs don't have AOA residencies to train in, then yeah I guess its "nearly impossible" to become an orthopod from the DO route. But as someone mentioned, with their own residencies, 3.53% MD students matching and 2.53% DO students matching is not that huge of a difference for you to characterize it as "nearly impossible".

From experience, I can say that there are some OMM treatments that have amazing therapeutic effects and there are people who do want to be DOs. Yes, I know this idea might be incomprehensible to you, there are people out there who really want to be DOs, and plenty of them have the grades to go the MD route. While I'm sure there are plenty of DOs who agree with you, your position does not warrant you to denounce an entire profession in such a manner. The only people who should decide the future of their profession/degree is the DOs and your opinion is largely irrelevant.
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Nope. I have no problem with DO students, I even have no problem with (most) DO programs. I do have a problem with OMM and the reasons DO remains a distinct degree from an MD.

Also, you shouldn't count the DO residencies. Outside of primary care, they really do not offer the same level of training as ACGME residencies and may restrict things like fellowship opportunities, even job opportunities.

Even if you're a DO student, you should still aim for ACGME residencies.

And I like a good massage as much as the next guy, I just don't think it should be part of your degree. The basis for OMM is completely against modern science.
 
johnnydrama said:
Nope. I have no problem with DO students, I even have no problem with (most) DO programs. I do have a problem with OMM and the reasons DO remains a distinct degree from an MD.

Also, you shouldn't count the DO residencies. Outside of primary care, they really do not offer the same level of training as ACGME residencies and may restrict things like fellowship opportunities, even job opportunities.

Even if you're a DO student, you should still aim for ACGME residencies.

And I like a good massage as much as the next guy, I just don't think it should be part of your degree. The basis for OMM is completely against modern science.
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Are you kidding me? If DO residencies allow osteopathic physicians to legally and safely practice medicine, of course they should be counted. The reality is that they are good enough and ACGME residencies are not always better than AOA residencies. You'd also be surprised to know that not everyone wants to be "the best" like you and some just want to practice real medicine and don't need the "prestige" to make them happy in life as you apparently do. While job opportunities may differ, I haven't heard or met any unemployed DO grads roaming the streets.

And as for OMM, maybe you are right in that it is against modern science in a way. One reason, you should acknowledge, is because it is extremely difficult to measure the efficacy of OMM through the scientific method. OMM is not simply a drug or cut and dry procedure you can objectively test through double-blind studies, OMM is an art form as well as a science. Last time I checked, medicine has always been an art as well as a science. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who actively seek OMM treatment and if they believe it helps them why are you so set on trying to take it away from them?

By the way, I should have no problem getting an ACGME residency because I am an MD student. 😀
 
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DrMediterranean said:
Are you kidding me? If DO residencies allow osteopathic physicians to legally and safely practice medicine, of course they should be counted. The reality is that they are good enough and ACGME residencies are not always better than AOA residencies. You'd also be surprised to know that not everyone wants to be "the best" like you and some just want to practice real medicine and don't need the "prestige" to make them happy in life as you apparently do. While job opportunities may differ, I haven't heard or met any unemployed DO grads roaming the streets.

And as for OMM, maybe you are right in that it is against modern science in a way. One reason, you should acknowledge, is because it is extremely difficult to measure the efficacy of OMM through the scientific method. OMM is not simply a drug or cut and dry procedure you can objectively test through double-blind studies, OMM is an art form as well as a science. Last time I checked, medicine has always been an art as well as a science. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who actively seek OMM treatment and if they believe it helps them why are you so set on trying to take it away from them?

By the way, I should have no problem getting an ACGME residency because I am an MD student. 😀
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I agree with johnny here. Many of the DO students complain about technicalities in the publications on the matter, but the cut and dried reality is that any comparison, valid or valid+SDN pre-osteo complaint, shows AOA residencies to be lacking in terms of match criteria. Nothing other than speculation and "seems to me" type claims has shown the opposite.

I don't mind DO programs on the basis that they offer a 2nd chance for people who want to become physicians who, for whatever reason, are not competitive for the nonsense that is MD applications. I do believe that many such students will go on to be completely competent and excellent doctors. However, as i have been known to say, I also believe that for each one of these students admitted at lower criteria, there are students who actually ARE well represented by their scores and as such competency is correlated. I do have faith that there are enough checks along the way that all these things average out and the ones who cannot cut it (meaning the DO students with low scores who are accurately portrayed as well as MD students with higher scores who are overestimated (i.e. lucky)) will not end up matching competitively anyways. However the AOA match serves as a back door here. It is driven solely by selection bias and has the extra irritating quality of not coinciding so students get to try for (for example) AOA ortho and if that doesnt work have the time to shoot for something noncompetitive in ACGME. This is pure unadultered horse manure if you ask me
 
auburnO5 said:
Not many MD's respect DO's......

Just the truth that nobody wants to say or admit.
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STORY TIME! Sit down kids...

So I'm a rising 2nd year at a US MD School (Wayne State). During first year we have a course called Clinical Medicine, which is basically a intro to patient course. Because we're a large school (290 students) they split us up into about 14 groups each with an attending who leads the small groups where they teach you things like how to talk to patients/blood pressure/etc. At the beginning of the course there's a lottery where you can pick which attending's small group you want to be a part of (some of them are peds some geriatric and one was an Oncologist)

Out of the 14 instructors there was one DO, he was a Medical Oncologist at a very prestigious hospital here in Detroit. I was going to pick him (as I want to do Oncology), but I decided not to because it was too far away from where I lived.

I remember sitting in the computer lab when we received our assignments for the small groups. So I was logging on to see who I was assigned to and another Yr1 sits next to me and asks if I can look up who he got assigned to... I said "Sure," and told him he got So-and-So, MD. And he was like "Thank god", I said "Oh you really wanted to be in her group, huh?" He said "No, I just didn't want to be in the DO's"

I turn to him and said with a stone face... "What...?" He's like "well, you know..." I said "You know DOs are literally the same thing as a MD right..." He said "Yeah well..."
I just left after that. Looking back I wish I had chewed him out for his ego problem, but some people are just going to believe what they want to believe, and you can't change that.

I've never run into anyone else who has had any issues with DOs in my class, the discrimination is largely among the old-timers. Just move on, you have no need to prove yourself to people like that. DOs are just as good as MDs and if some ass-hat MD thinks they're better than you, so what? They're probably a dick anyway.

/rant

Either way, there's at least one MD student who recognizes DOs as complete equals. 🙂
 
To be fair, I don't even accept all US MD students as complete equals. There are some truly mediocre MD schools out there now.
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I agree with johnny here. Many of the DO students complain about technicalities in the publications on the matter, but the cut and dried reality is that any comparison, valid or valid+SDN pre-osteo complaint, shows AOA residencies to be lacking in terms of match criteria. Nothing other than speculation and "seems to me" type claims has shown the opposite.

I don't mind DO programs on the basis that they offer a 2nd chance for people who want to become physicians who, for whatever reason, are not competitive for the nonsense that is MD applications. I do believe that many such students will go on to be completely competent and excellent doctors. However, as i have been known to say, I also believe that for each one of these students admitted at lower criteria, there are students who actually ARE well represented by their scores and as such competency is correlated. I do have faith that there are enough checks along the way that all these things average out and the ones who cannot cut it (meaning the DO students with low scores who are accurately portrayed as well as MD students with higher scores who are overestimated (i.e. lucky)) will not end up matching competitively anyways. However the AOA match serves as a back door here. It is driven solely by selection bias and has the extra irritating quality of not coinciding so students get to try for (for example) AOA ortho and if that doesnt work have the time to shoot for something noncompetitive in ACGME. This is pure unadultered horse manure if you ask me
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:idea: Holy crap, I agree with Specter! Board scores and the match should be the great equalizer, however with two different matches that occur at separate times it does come off as a bit of tangled mess that creates holes for some while raising barriers for others. Besides the sloppiness that ensues, these separate matches do nothing to prevent or improve the discrimination out there.

Why not open AOA residencies to MD students? Are people scared of MD students taking over DO residencies? They shouldn't be because it will work itself out. Those residencies out there that are competitive in the MD world will still be competitive (and likely still tough for most DO students to break into) and those programs with DO roots may still be known to have a more DO slant (dare I say 'preference'). Self-selection will ensue but with less definitive barriers. Yes, discrimination will still occur to some degree, and in some places quite possibly as much as ever... but in this case maybe even for an MD student who lacks certainly qualities that DO PD wishes to see in his residents.

Of course there would be kinks to work out, but at least everyone will be on the same page and ALL GME programs will be held up to the same standards and level of scrutiny across the country with less speculation (negative or otherwise). $hit, the AOA and the AMA (or is it ACGME in this case?) can still remain distinct to some degree so that they can keep their jobs and continue with the self-back-patting and what-not, but at least they can sit at the same table and work together under the same guise. If they really want to waste more money in the name of bureaucracy while simultaneously feeling better about themselves they can create an umbrella group that overseas the whole shebang.

Excuse the comparison but this all sounds a lot like the history of major league baseball to me... with the American League being the small guy with weaker teams and often losing their better players (sometimes unfairly) to the larger more established National League. They battled for years (even to the point of playing football games against each other after the season ended just so that they can beat the crap out of each other) but eventually they worked it out and became one organization while remaining somewhat distinct. This competition to settle their differences led to one of the greatest venue in sports- the World Series.

Ok, so maybe this isn't the best analogy (or even an appropriate one) comparing our national pastime with a profession where lives are regularly at risk and in the hands of its "players", but if anything, the fact that medicine is such serious business should be even more of an impetus to demand high quality standards in training across the board without avoidable political hogwash muddying the waters; both sides should come together for the sake of enhanced quality. The main concern should be quality not distinction, but it appears as if the latter takes precedence. Point being, from an arbitrary perspective all of this separate but equal talk comes off as disingenuous, especially after speaking with and working under established DO's and MD's in a clinical setting. I would like to believe that a majority are ready for significant changes. Maybe all of the ACGME talks this summer will play the role of catalyst.
 
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johnnydrama said:
To be fair, I don't even accept all US MD students as complete equals. There are some truly mediocre MD schools out there now.
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If someone scores higher on the USMLE than you but goes to a lesser school are they still considered below you because you go to a better school? When does past performance (college GPA and MCAT) stop mattering and current performance (medical school GPA and USMLE) start to matter? Does it never matter? I'm just curious and I'm not trying to be a dick.
 
DrMediterranean said:
And as for OMM, maybe you are right in that it is against modern science in a way. One reason, you should acknowledge, is because it is extremely difficult to measure the efficacy of OMM through the scientific method. OMM is not simply a drug or cut and dry procedure you can objectively test through double-blind studies, OMM is an art form as well as a science. Last time I checked, medicine has always been an art as well as a science. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who actively seek OMM treatment and if they believe it helps them why are you so set on trying to take it away from them?
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It's funny how people start sounding like naturopaths when defending OMM. "But our technique is special and can't be evaluated by your closed-minded 'scientific method.'"

Keep your fancy vitalism-based massage techniques if you want, but don't pretend it's anything more than a placebo for most conditions, or if you do then accept that most physicians who are familiar with its roots are going to keep mocking you for it.
 
K31 said:
It's funny how people start sounding like naturopaths when defending OMM. "But our technique is special and can't be evaluated by your closed-minded 'scientific method.'"

Keep your fancy vitalism-based massage techniques if you want, but don't pretend it's anything more than a placebo for most conditions, or if you do then accept that most physicians who are familiar with its roots are going to keep mocking you for it.
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I'm not arguing in favor of OMT, but even a lot of common surgical procedures can not be tested (or really will not be tested) in double blind studies. Just saying...

However, I agree that OMT needs to be researched rigorously without bias and held up to the scrutiny that any other medical treatment should be held to. That said, current medicine has its fair share of treatments that do not fall into the realm of evidence based medicine.

Completely writing something off without sufficient research is almost as ignorant as blindly accepting it.
 
Dharma said:
I'm not arguing in favor of OMT, but even a lot of common surgical procedures can not be tested (or really will not be tested) in double blind studies. Just saying...

However, I agree that OMT needs to be researched rigorously without bias and held up to the scrutiny that any other medical treatment should be held to. That said, current medicine has its fair share of treatments that do not fall into the realm of evidence based medicine.

Completely writing something off without sufficient research is almost as ignorant as blindly accepting it.
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👍
 
johnnydrama said:
To be fair, I don't even accept all US MD students as complete equals. There are some truly mediocre MD schools out there now.
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Students (and physicians) should be judged for their knowledge, skills, and work ethic not the school they went to. Having read a number of Johnny's posts, I think he would agree with this. I think here he just means that there are MD schools that aren't so great and quite possibly not up to par, even when compared with some DO schools.
 
K31 said:
It's funny how people start sounding like naturopaths when defending OMM. "But our technique is special and can't be evaluated by your closed-minded 'scientific method.'"

Keep your fancy vitalism-based massage techniques if you want, but don't pretend it's anything more than a placebo for most conditions, or if you do then accept that most physicians who are familiar with its roots are going to keep mocking you for it.
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So what you're saying is that all techniques used in medicine are well researched and studied under the scientific method? Well golly-gee. Alright, honestly I think the majority of OMM probably is bunk, but some of it is likely just as useful as any other form of physical medicine/therapy used by either PM&R doctors and PT's. Furthermore the roots of OMM aren't really a source for mocking, well unless you're a fan of injecting patients with mercury and other heavy metals or any of the other pseduo-science proposed at the turn of the 19th century.
 
Dharma said:
I'm not arguing in favor of OMT, but even a lot of common surgical procedures can not be tested (or really will not be tested) in double blind studies. Just saying...

However, I agree that OMT needs to be researched rigorously without bias and held up to the scrutiny that any other medical treatment should be held to. That said, current medicine has its fair share of treatments that do not fall into the realm of evidence based medicine.

Completely writing something off without sufficient research is almost as ignorant as blindly accepting it.
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Your comment made me think of this.


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNoQ5NY7Z_8[/YOUTUBE]
 
serenade said:
so what you're saying is that all techniques used in medicine are well researched and studied under the scientific method? Well golly-gee. Alright, honestly i think the majority of omm probably is bunk, but some of it is likely just as useful as any other form of physical medicine/therapy used by either pm&r doctors and pt's. Furthermore the roots of omm aren't really a source for mocking, well unless you're a fan of injecting patients with mercury and other heavy metals or any of the other pseduo-science proposed at the turn of the 19th century.
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+1
 
Sileni said:
:troll:

I guess some people just have to feel like they're "superior" to someone...
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Not trying to feel superior. Just stating that there are good, bad and ugly MD programs before you even start to consider the MD/DO divide.

If MDs will be judged by colleagues and patients based upon where they received their degrees and where they trained, why do you think DOs would be treated any differently?

Eventually your body of work matters more than your pedigree, but your training program will always affect your professional reputation to some extent.

So don't buy too much into the SDN affirmation hype and choose a school with a worse reputation unless you have a very good reason for it ($$$ or location).
 
serenade said:
Furthermore the roots of OMM aren't really a source for mocking, well unless you're a fan of injecting patients with mercury and other heavy metals or any of the other pseduo-science proposed at the turn of the 19th century.
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There are elements of pseudoscience still in MD training, but unlike DOs we actively try to remove the junk instead of trying to validate it.
 
serenade said:
So what you're saying is that all techniques used in medicine are well researched and studied under the scientific method?
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No, I'm not saying that they have all been tested or that they are all useful. However, physicians don't argue that the those techniques are untestable. Using that argument takes you down to the level of the homeopaths and naturopaths.


serenade said:
Furthermore the roots of OMM aren't really a source for mocking, well unless you're a fan of injecting patients with mercury and other heavy metals or any of the other pseduo-science proposed at the turn of the 19th century.
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That's not a valid argument since nobody does that anymore. If my attending were telling me to bleed someone for their pneumonia, I'd agree with you.

However, as far as I'm aware the entire theory/philosophy beyond OMM hasn't changed since AT Still pulled it out of his ass. If I'm wrong, please educate me.
 
This




Thread




Officially




Lost




Any





Use.






I am checking out of this and invite anyone else who wants this troll ridden thread to die off to join me.
 
johnnydrama said:
There are elements of pseudoscience still in MD training, but unlike DOs we actively try to remove the junk instead of trying to validate it.
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Not really. Like I said some parts of OMM are pseudoscience, others are likely quite useful for physical medicine and like many DO's have stated here, they've used some OMM techniques with great success.
 
K31 said:
No, I'm not saying that they have all been tested or that they are all useful. However, physicians don't argue that the those techniques are untestable. Using that argument takes you down to the level of the homeopaths and naturopaths.




That's not a valid argument since nobody does that anymore. If my attending were telling me to bleed someone for their pneumonia, I'd agree with you.

However, as far as I'm aware the entire theory/philosophy beyond OMM hasn't changed since AT Still pulled it out of his ass. If I'm wrong, please educate me.
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In principle your argument is only going off the basic, "the burden of proof lies on you". Regardless I'm apathetic towards the topic frankly. Furthermore the arguement doesn't have to be valid today, you were referring to the roots of osteopathic manipulation, I responded and historically it has worked for a lot of people including Mark Twain.
Yes, the philosophy behind OMM/Osteopathy hasn't changed, but rather it has been at least somewhat incorporated into modern medical philosophy. OMM otherwise has just received a bunch of new techniques since then, some that are stupid, and others that are probably analogous to other physical therapy ideas.

But again, I'm pretty apathetic towards OMM. It's a not hindering or antagonistic paradigm towards modern medicine, it's just another thing that can be used in some situations of muscle pain or etc.
 
Dharma said:
don't forget to bring a towel.
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250px-508_towelie.gif
 
SpecterGT260 said:
I agree with johnny here. Many of the DO students complain about technicalities in the publications on the matter, but the cut and dried reality is that any comparison, valid or valid+SDN pre-osteo complaint, shows AOA residencies to be lacking in terms of match criteria. Nothing other than speculation and "seems to me" type claims has shown the opposite.

I don't mind DO programs on the basis that they offer a 2nd chance for people who want to become physicians who, for whatever reason, are not competitive for the nonsense that is MD applications. I do believe that many such students will go on to be completely competent and excellent doctors. However, as i have been known to say, I also believe that for each one of these students admitted at lower criteria, there are students who actually ARE well represented by their scores and as such competency is correlated. I do have faith that there are enough checks along the way that all these things average out and the ones who cannot cut it (meaning the DO students with low scores who are accurately portrayed as well as MD students with higher scores who are overestimated (i.e. lucky)) will not end up matching competitively anyways. However the AOA match serves as a back door here. It is driven solely by selection bias and has the extra irritating quality of not coinciding so students get to try for (for example) AOA ortho and if that doesnt work have the time to shoot for something noncompetitive in ACGME. This is pure unadultered horse manure if you ask me
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Would you want DO residencies opened to MD's?
 
K31 said:
It's funny how people start sounding like naturopaths when defending OMM. "But our technique is special and can't be evaluated by your closed-minded 'scientific method.'"

Keep your fancy vitalism-based massage techniques if you want, but don't pretend it's anything more than a placebo for most conditions, or if you do then accept that most physicians who are familiar with its roots are going to keep mocking you for it.
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Quick question. Have you ever seen OMM performed on a patient? Or tried it yourself?

Anyone who's calling OMM "massage"... I just have to call into question the experience they've actually had with it.
 
pattr said:
Quick question. Have you ever seen OMM performed on a patient? Or tried it yourself?

Anyone who's calling OMM "massage"... I just have to call into question the experience they've actually had with it.
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Dude it's the same old song and dance with those types of people. In order to make themselves feel superior to DOs they need to discredit the major difference in degrees. If we studied pharmacology and they didn't, they'd be calling us druggies.

Some people seek title/prestige/etc to fill a void in their life (lack of friends, relationships, athletic ability, mom's love, who knows). What that void is, I don't know and quite honestly don't care. In order to keep that void "filled" they need to constantly reassure themselves that they're superior. An easy way is to put others down.

It's been going on forever in every circle of life. It's pathetic but hey, whatever gets them through the day. People who constantly make it a point to claim MD is superior fit into that category, whether they admit it (or realize it) or not.
 
I don't think anyone is putting down DO students or suggesting they shouldn't be doctors.

We're just saying that there is no reason for DO to exist as a different degree except 19th century pseudoscience.

Convert the schools that can pass LCME accreditation into MD schools, close the rest, and salt and burn the bones of AT Still.
 
Wolverines83 said:
Dude it's the same old song and dance with those types of people. In order to make themselves feel superior to DOs they need to discredit the major difference in degrees. If we studied pharmacology and they didn't, they'd be calling us druggies.

Some people seek title/prestige/etc to fill a void in their life (lack of friends, relationships, athletic ability, mom's love, who knows). What that void is, I don't know and quite honestly don't care. In order to keep that void "filled" they need to constantly reassure themselves that they're superior. An easy way is to put others down.

It's been going on forever in every circle of life. It's pathetic but hey, whatever gets them through the day. People who constantly make it a point to claim MD is superior fit into that category, whether they admit it (or realize it) or not.
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So.... much... irony.....

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
SoulinNeed said:
Would you want DO residencies opened to MD's?
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Sure. Either that or just go with ACGME or a new residency program out of the influence of both. Just so long as we don't have a back door system

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
johnnydrama said:
I don't think anyone is putting down DO students or suggesting they shouldn't be doctors.

We're just saying that there is no reason for DO to exist as a different degree except 19th century pseudoscience.

Convert the schools that can pass LCME accreditation into MD schools, close the rest, and salt and burn the bones of AT Still.
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Or a better alternative to appeal to everyone is simply dual accreditation and the sponsorship of the MD, DO dual degree. Boom everyone except the AOA is happy.
However talking about it is pointless because it's not going to happen.
 
serenade said:
Or a better alternative to appeal to everyone is simply dual accreditation and the sponsorship of the MD, DO dual degree. Boom everyone except the AOA is happy.
However talking about it is pointless because it's not going to happen.
Click to expand...

No, the DO degree needs to go away, not get tacked on to every MD.

And this has already happened before in CA, should have happened everywhere but the AOA recognized an existential threat and fought back somehow.

The ACGME and LCME could unilaterally do it by closing the ACGME residencies to DO graduates unless their schools convert. There's already a few rumors that they might do just that once they finish off the Caribbean diploma mills.
 
johnnydrama said:
The ACGME and LCME could unilaterally do it by closing the ACGME residencies to DO graduates unless their schools convert. There's already a few rumors that they might do just that once they finish off the Caribbean diploma mills.
Click to expand...

🙄 and rumors are usually true.
 
Wolverines83 said:
???
Click to expand...

OOOHHHHHHH :soexcited: I was hoping you'd ask 😍

Ok so this post is going to piss off a few people so I want to start with a disclaimer. I do not think that practicing DOs (that have been through ACGME residencies) are in any way inferior to their MD counterparts. I exclude AOA only because MDs are not included so no claim of comparison can be made. My opinions on DO schools are represented above and I got Dharma's seal of approval so I feel like I'm good there 😀

So here is why your post is so ironic.

Originally Posted by Wolverines83
Dude it's the same old song and dance with those types of people. In order to make themselves feel superior to DOs they need to discredit the major difference in degrees. If we studied pharmacology and they didn't, they'd be calling us druggies.

Some people seek title/prestige/etc to fill a void in their life (lack of friends, relationships, athletic ability, mom's love, who knows). What that void is, I don't know and quite honestly don't care. In order to keep that void "filled" they need to constantly reassure themselves that they're superior. An easy way is to put others down.

It's been going on forever in every circle of life. It's pathetic but hey, whatever gets them through the day. People who constantly make it a point to claim MD is superior fit into that category, whether they admit it (or realize it) or not.
Click to expand...

Let me paraphrase in my own words and show you what is so ridiculous here.

"these people feel the need to constantly reassure themselves that they are better than a group of people that they have consistently (on average) out performed by a rather wide margin"
riiiiiiight. We need to attack OMT to pat ourselves on the back. If your statement was at all valid the conversation would stop at scores and gpa. OMT is attacked by MD and DO alike and if you disagree I will go farm some posts off this board for you (even this thread).

The irony in the statement is how you talk about the mental gymnastics MDs need to go to to make themselves feel superior when what it looks like is you going through some mental gymnastics in order to not feel inferior. :idea: the strength of your words here is just born of an inferiority complex. I have no hole or void in my life i'm trying to fill. I think OMT on the whole is pretty sketchy and some parts of it are downright shameful. I dont think this just so I can "keep a brotha down" as you seem to think, but because it is based on bad science and I think that is wrong.
But either way, I just think your assertion that MDs of various levels feel the need to reassure themselves in such a way is just silly. Also I want to make it clear, this post does not say "MDs are better because xxxx", so if you got that from the post you did something wrong. It just says "your post was nonsense because xxxxxx" 👍
 
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