Do DO do a or MD from "low" tier schools ever feel inferior?

[JustAPhD]

And I have neither of those traits . Also, this made me wonder. When it comes to researching big industry diseases like diabetes and cancer, can any doctor or PhD grad get Ito researching cures like that, or is it mainly the ones who come from the well-regarded programs you spoke of? Probably a stupid question, but I'm curious and don't know anything regarding things like this.

Anyone *can* research those diseases, often they're trained in a related field, but you would be surprised how many different fields you can relate to common diseases. Often times these "big industry" diseases come equipped with big NIH funding, making pursing that research quite appealing for many researchers. However, just because anyone can doesn't mean they will be any more productive than publishing in lower impact journals doing only semi-interesting work. To be a rockstar requires many things, with high intelligence, creativity, and a bit of luck thrown in for good measure.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[binko]

This D.O. has a chip on his shoulder but it looks like he got over it.

 

[Affiche]

@MeatTornado thanks for clarifying! I couldn't recall if it was even you who said it and I'm interested in IM, so that's probably why I extrapolated. I do think (for IM, at least) that your post was a really good way to put into perspective the usefulness of med school name.

 

[toutou]

@MeatTornado thanks for clarifying! I couldn't recall if it was even you who said it and I'm interested in IM, so that's probably why I extrapolated. I do think (for IM, at least) that your post was a really good way to put into perspective the usefulness of med school name.

Affiche, how were you able to allocate your time etc during school to be involved with a lot of research like that? I'm curious, because I want to be involve with research in med school too.

 

[Affiche]

Affiche, how were you able to allocate your time etc during school to be involved with a lot of research like that? I'm curious, because I want to be involve with research in med school too.

I'll PM you. I don't want to derail this thread too much.

 

[piii]

Another quality @Monkey.King thread.. Maybe your doc went to Harvard but was just tired of your questions?

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Where you did your residency (usually) reflects your performance in med school
Where you went to med school (usually) reflects your performance in undergrad
Where you went to undergrad (usually) reflects your performance in high school

This is also why med schools don't care where you went to undergrad. It's totally possible to do bad in high school yet do well in medicine. Likewise, you're still young when you're in undergrad and if you mess up, you can still be a great doctor. But when you go into medical school, that's when you've offiicially stated your commitment to take medicine seriously. And where you go to residency reflects that.

 

[Monkey.King]

Another quality @Monkey.King thread.. Maybe your doc went to Harvard but was just tired of your questions?

I do take pride in creating threads with looking at a scale from 1-10, having a 10 in quality. I hope I can one day create a thread that will break the scale itself.

A guy who doesn't want to be questioned became a doctor? And is burnt out after 3 questions? And in family medicine? Oh the poor unlucky souls who end up shadowing him. What has this profession come to! I pray the parents of young children do not report this doctor to his superiors because of his smart ass replies to their questions. If the parents don't attack them him with a spoon of course. And he probably went to Hardvard? He should have said so! I went there too. We could have flexed in our "HARDVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL just kidding" T-shirts.

Anyone *can* research those diseases, often they're trained in a related field, but you would be surprised how many different fields you can relate to common diseases. Often times these "big industry" diseases come equipped with big NIH funding, making pursing that research quite appealing for many researchers. However, just because anyone can doesn't mean they will be any more productive than publishing in lower impact journals doing only semi-interesting work. To be a rockstar requires many things, with high intelligence, creativity, and a bit of luck thrown in for good measure.

Thanks for the response. When it comes down to securing substantial funding, do you have to show early own that your research is more unique than the rest and can produce better results early on? Also, research on incurable diseases have been done for a long time and we still don't have cures for these things. And it can also take a long time to produce results. When do investors decide it's time to pull the plug on your funding because they aren't happy with what you've been producing lately?

Where you did your residency (usually) reflects your performance in med school
Where you went to med school (usually) reflects your performance in undergrad
Where you went to undergrad (usually) reflects your performance in high school

This is also why med schools don't care where you went to undergrad. It's totally possible to do bad in high school yet do well in medicine. Likewise, you're still young when you're in undergrad and if you mess up, you can still be a great doctor. But when you go into medical school, that's when you've offiicially stated your commitment to take medicine seriously. And where you go to residency reflects that.

My question wasn't really about whether or not DOs and people from "low" tier schools are capable of being great doctors or not. And the response I received from asking a simple follow up question about where he went to school made me think of this. It was about if the publics opinion made some of the people in these two categories feel inferior compared to their peers. Like @Mad Jack said, who cares. What your academic peers and coworkers think of you is much more important.



Also, is there a way to edit the title? I just noticed the typos

 

[Psai]

Patients don't really care where you went to school. They don't even know the difference between a doctor, a pa and an np most of the time. It's the ones that want to know where you went to school that you have to watch out for.

 

[Sardinia]

I wonder if M2's deep into serious Step 1 mode get triggered when incoming M1's state that all they need to get is a high Step 1 score.

 

[Affiche]

I wonder if M2's deep into serious Step 1 mode get triggered when incoming M1's state that all they need to get is a high Step 1 score.

How is that relevant to this thread?

 

[Monkey.King]

I wonder if M2's deep into serious Step 1 mode get triggered when incoming M1's state that all they need to get is a high Step 1 score.

I wonder if you're in the right thread

 

[Dustbowl12]

HAHAHA

 

[I'm No Superman]

~~Do DO do~~

 

[Mad Jack]

I do take pride in creating threads with looking at a scale from 1-10, having a 10 in quality. I hope I can one day create a thread that will break the scale itself.

Don't worry little dude, you turn it to 11.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

look up where he/she trained for residency

top residency

So where exactly do we go to see which residencies are "high tier," etc.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

But the sad truth is that bullying does exist. Doctor bully nurses sometimes, I've seen it happen. I've even seen a physical therapist laugh at a nurse and call her out by referring to a PA as "doctor". And yes, some MD's do bully DO's.

Of course, this is absolutely the exception rather than the norm. Definitely nothing to worry about. If you want to be a doctor, get into a med school that you want and work hard!

 

[Affiche]

But the sad truth is that bullying does exist. Doctor bully nurses sometimes, I've seen it happen. I've even seen a physical therapist laugh at a nurse and call her out by referring to a PA as "doctor". And yes, some MD's do bully DO's.

Of course, this is absolutely the exception rather than the norm. Definitely nothing to worry about. If you want to be a doctor, get into a med school that you want and work hard!

We aren't discussing interprofessional relationships or the hierarchical nature of health teams.

 

[CognitiveSci]

Well given that patients don't have access to the financial incentives behind where a doctor chose to go to school, I would like to probe and ask you whether the financial incentives matter at all. That is to say, would you still advocate that school ranking isn't important in the absence of this information?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Bruh, what planet do you live on where people's opinions is more important than being free of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt?

Honestly, unless you're offered a seat at an "Ivy", I don't think prestige really matter after that. Why spend money when I don't have to? Living a debt-free life is beautiful and somehing a lot of Americans don't get to do any more.

Kinda reminds me of the ep of Grey's Anatomy where that doc (can't remember which one, Meredith?) posed for lingerie shoots and was subsequently debt-free while her coworkers tried to shame her and all. While they were being snooty (equivalent for shaming someone for where they received their MD), she was stress free and not worrying about how she was going to pay her loans next month.

LESS DEBT >>>>> PEOPLE'S OPINIONS

 

[Affiche]

Bruh, what planet do you live on where people's opinions is more important than being free of hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt?

Honestly, unless you're offered a seat at an "Ivy", I don't think prestige really matter after that. Why spend money when I don't have to? Living a debt-free life is beautiful and somehing a lot of Americans don't get to do any more.

Kinda reminds me of the ep of Grey's Anatomy where that doc (can't remember which one, Meredith?) posed for lingerie shoots and was subsequently debt-free while her coworkers tried to shame her and all. While they were being snooty (equivalent for shaming someone for where they received their MD), she was stress free and not worrying about how she was going to pay her loans next month.

LESS DEBT >>>>> PEOPLE'S OPINIONS

Come on, man. It was Izzy! Lol

 

[Monkey.King]

But the sad truth is that bullying does exist. Doctor bully nurses sometimes, I've seen it happen. I've even seen a physical therapist laugh at a nurse and call her out by referring to a PA as "doctor". And yes, some MD's do bully DO's.

This doesn't really have anything to do with situations I'm reffering too. I'm focusing on how the individual with a less prestigious background would feel about themselves compared to their colleagues. There's tons of DO bashing and people making it seem like going to an top 20 is pretty much a guarantee your going to make it big which isn't the case.

And in my situation with my doctor, I just found it weird. We were having a nice conversation that just took a 180 when I asked what school he attended. It's not even like I asked out of the blue or my opinion even matters. Again, with all the DO and "low" tier MD school bashing it might make them feel less accomplished than some of their peers. My first question for him was his experience with applying and working in medical school. Something he brought up was the dreaded idea of going to schools in the Carribean because it's cheaper and still offers the same benefits as attending on in the country. Despite being an SDN junkie, I said nothing about it and didn't ask any questions regarding that. 2 questions later I asked what school he went too and his attitude completely changed. Maybe he went to a Carribean school and was close to not making it so he he made it seem better than it was. Maybe he went there and didn't get the residency of his choice, which is why he's probably miserable in family medicine. Maybe this is why, and like @piii said, he was tired of my questions. These are some of the ideas I can think of for his sudden change in attitude .

Regardless of whatever it is, he's still a doctor and doing a fantastic job. And now that I think about it, it was probably just stress as well. There was only 4 doctors there for the entire day. People were frustrated and criticized them on their performance and packed schedule (like they were the ones who overbooked the appointments...). Maybe he thought I was going to use what school he attended to further insult their performance?

 

[Lawpy]

But the sad truth is that bullying does exist. Doctor bully nurses sometimes, I've seen it happen. I've even seen a physical therapist laugh at a nurse and call her out by referring to a PA as "doctor". And yes, some MD's do bully DO's.

Of course, this is absolutely the exception rather than the norm. Definitely nothing to worry about. If you want to be a doctor, get into a med school that you want and work hard!

We aren't discussing interprofessional relationships or the hierarchical nature of health teams.

I don't even know what we're discussing anymore

 

[Affiche]

This doesn't really have anything to do with situations I'm reffering too. I'm focusing on how the individual with a less prestigious background would feel about themselves compared to their colleagues. There's tons of DO bashing and people making it seem like going to an top 20 is pretty much a guarantee your going to make it big which isn't the case.

And in my situation with my doctor, I just found it weird. We were having a nice conversation that just took a 180 when I asked what school he attended. It's not even like I asked out of the blue or my opinion even matters. Again, with all the DO and "low" tier MD school bashing it might make them feel less accomplished than some of their peers. My first question for him was his experience with applying and working in medical school. Something he brought up was the dreaded idea of going to schools in the Carribean because it's cheaper and still offers the same benefits as attending on in the country. Despite being an SDN junkie, I said nothing about it and didn't ask any questions regarding that. 2 questions later I asked what school he went too and his attitude completely changed. Maybe he went to a Carribean school and was close to not making it so he he made it seem better than it was. Maybe he went there and didn't get the residency of his choice, which is why he's probably miserable in family medicine. Maybe this is why, and like @piii said, he was tired of my questions. These are some of the ideas I can think of for his sudden change in attitude .

Regardless of whatever it is, he's still a doctor and doing a fantastic job. And now that I think about it, it was probably just stress as well. There was only 4 doctors there for the entire day. People were frustrated and criticized them on their performance and packed schedule (like they were the ones who overbooked the appointments...). Maybe he thought I was going to use what school he attended to further insult their performance?

You're seeing feelings of inferiority because you believe in inferior medical schools. He was probably busy and sick of answering questions from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and just wanted to get his job done.

I sincerely doubt that someone who has a successful career as an attending is still harboring any potential feelings of inferiority over where they went to medical school. That'd be like me being embarrassed about my high school physics grade.

 

[WedgeDawg]

So where exactly do we go to see which residencies are "high tier," etc.

There isn't really a great place to do so. Most of it is word of mouth and can be learned by talking to people in the field and involved in academics (i.e. either in residency, faculty at an academic center, program directors, etc). Some people have suggested Doximity as a possible source, but others have said that Doximity isn't very accurate.

 

[Mad Jack]

So where exactly do we go to see which residencies are "high tier," etc.

You have to be in-the-know. Doximity does a ranking but it isn't exactly good.

 

[Danny L]

No. I'd be disappointed that my best option was a sticker price low tier school, but I'd still be proud of having an MD after my name in four years.

I'd be embarrassed if I paid sticker price to attend medical school and dropped the ball so hard that I ended up in a residency that I knew would hinder my career.

@Affiche Is it tougher to do well at a "prestigious" medical school?

 

[WedgeDawg]

@Affiche Is it tougher to do well at a "prestigious" medical school?

It's actually probably easier because you're graded less (a generalization - obviously there are some top schools with more stratified grades and some non-top schools that are totally P/F).

 

[CognitiveSci]

Come on, man. It was Izzy! Lol

LOLLLL I was so far

 

[Affiche]

@Affiche Is it tougher to do well at a "prestigious" medical school?

I don't think anyone can really answer that since everyone pretty much attends just their one medical school. All accredited US MD schools have to teach the same stuff though. Some are more competitive based on how/if they award honors and/or AOA. Your class needs to get ranked somehow though.

 

[MaxPlancker]

@Affiche Is it tougher to do well at a "prestigious" medical school?

It depends on how you define "well". If you mean relative to your peers, then at a top school, even one that is P/F, someone has to be the top half and someone has to be the bottom half in terms of scores (sure it's P/F, but you're given your score and the average score on exams so you can figure it out). So yes, it's harder to be at the top of your class at a top institution. That being said, more top schools have P/F and lack AOA which lessens the pressure and allows you to explore things you may not otherwise explore, whether related or unrelated to medicine. In other words, being at the top of your class doesn't matter at most top schools the same way it does at other schools.

 

[MaxPlancker]

So yesterday I had an annual doctors appointment, and I asked him what medical school he went to. I love to discuss and ask questions regarding med school and anything medicine related when I go to the doctors or my PA. But anyway, this isn't my usual doc and he replied "Does it really matter where I went to school?" In my mind, I'm thinking well damn, sorry for asking smart ass. What harm is asking a simple question like that? I replied "No" and just left it alone. After some deeper thinking into it because it really bugged me, I thought that was a reasonable response. I started thinking of how some people out there doubt a doctors capability if they didn't go to a prestigious school or have an MD degree instead of a DO.

So do some doctors out there actually feel inferior to other doctors with a more prestigious background despite them all being qualified to do the same thing? And I never really thought that people actually question the school a doctor attended and their background (I can understand if it's a situation where a parents child needs surgery, the success rate is 30%, and they want the best doctor possible). Can people even request more "qualified" doctors? Do they have to pay out of pocket for a request like that?

Honestly, it depends on the person...

I went to a no-name UG for free and I would pick it again any day over any other school in the country. Long as the school has the resources conducive to your career goals (which most do if you seek them out), there's nothing inferior about a lower ranked or DO school. A lot of pre-meds say they want to attend a top school "to do research" but that's honestly the most hilarious, naive reason.

 

[235009]

@Affiche Is it tougher to do well at a "prestigious" medical school?

This is analogous to the grade inflation discussion where people who go to less competitive schools complain that ivy league schools have higher average grades. Simply put you're competing against higher caliber students so the professors have to write harder tests or being average among a bunch of superstars isn't the same as being average at a school with 80% acceptance rate. Same goes for med school. How the school makes up for this higher caliber average student differs. Some do pass/fail. On the other hand at lower ranked schools (like the one i went to) they ramp up the competition (my schedule graded on a curve but the averages were relatively high). So a lower ranked school could be more stressful depending on how the higher ranked school makes up for having higher caliber students.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[Eye on MD]

This thread seems like the right place to ask. Hypothetically, come February, you have two options: Full scholarship in a DO program, or matriculate to an MD school?

Edited: DO schools do not appear to offer a full ride.

 

[piii]

This thread seems like the right place to ask. Hypothetically, come February, you have two options: Full scholarship in a DO program, or matriculate to an MD school?

Edited: DO schools do not appear to offer a full ride.

MD school every time

 

[Goro]

If you want to specialize, MD school. The cost of tuition will be paid back from your career.

If you're OK with Primary Care, then the free ride is what I'd recommend.

This thread seems like the right place to ask. Hypothetically, come February, you have two options: Full scholarship in a DO program, or matriculate to an MD school?

Edited: DO schools do not appear to offer a full ride.

 

[Dr. Death]

Read through this whole dumb thread waiting for this

~~Do DO do~~