Do DOs match into elite academic institutions?

[ClinPathDO]

I’m a DO who just started pathology residency at UTSW after a clinical year, a girl a year below me in med school is going to Yale for path. I talked to an alumni from my school who did path at UCSF. So it can happens, granted path is “non-competitive” but tends to be selective to people with a genuine interest in pathology and with a strong background in research.

Also of note, allot of premeds and didactic level medical students don’t understand that scrolling a match list for what they think are big names isn’t a great strategy. Every program has strong and weak residencies and some residencies like family medicine it is better to go to an unopposed community program than a large academic center. When I was interviewing for path some of these “big names” were severely lacking in major aspects of their training program. Also fit in terms of geographics, program director, and fellow residents is huge.

Great residency programs aren’t difficult to match just from a DO program but also from lesser name MD schools. Hopkins IM is great but it’s mostly filled with people from Hopkin tier schools, it is what it is.

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[sab3156]

You're misrepresenting me. I’m not at all denying DO bias at most top programs. I’m saying that DO applicants are aware of this yet still apply and attend DO programs bc many do not care about trying to train at a top residency. If they did they wouldn’t apply.

Come on, I'm not misrepresenting anything. You said there is selection bias. I find that argument to be extraordinarily weak due to the fact that there are a bunch of highly competitive applicants from the DO side each year. It doesn't matter if you increase the number of DOs applying to these programs to 1,000,000. Still gonna yield the same results (the "top programs" in any specialty that is not "uncompetitive" will rarely take a DO, and they aren't going to suddenly take more DOs just because there are more great DO applicants applying - let's be realistic).

 

[Dr.Bruh]

Come on, I'm not misrepresenting anything. You said there is selection bias. I find that argument to be extraordinarily weak due to the fact that there are a bunch of highly competitive applicants from the DO side each year. It doesn't matter if you increase the number of DOs applying to these programs to 1,000,000. Still gonna yield the same results (the "top programs" in any specialty that is not "uncompetitive" will rarely take a DO, and they aren't going to suddenly take more DOs just because there are more great DO applicants applying - let's be realistic).

I don’t see how my argument is weak. Yours is much weaker. Selection bias has a non-negligible role here it’s obvious. It’s not unreasonable to assume Even the top DO students are more likely to considering non-top programs compared to a top MD student. This is bc MOST people who choose go DO accept they will not be training at a top program. This is the mindset of most DO students before the match and while entering the match.


Also, you’re argument about more DOs not increases the number of matches in competitive specialties is hyperbolic. I’m not saying programs that don’t consider DOs magically will BUT look at the PD survey for Neurosurg. A third of programs report that they are at least willing to interview DOs. But yet only 0-3 DOs match each year. This is bc the total number of DOs applying ACGMe Neurosurg is in the single digits. Thisbalso likely explains why IMGs match so much better in Neurosurg. Bc hundreds apply historically so PDs are more likely to rank them at least in part just by having more exposure

 

[sab3156]

I don’t see how my argument is weak. Yours is much weaker. Selection bias has a non-negligible role here it’s obvious. It’s not unreasonable to assume Even the top DO students are more likely to considering non-top programs compared to a top MD student. This is bc MOST people who choose go DO accept they will not be training at a top program. This is the mindset of most DO students before the match and while entering the match.


Also, you’re argument about more DOs not increases the number of matches in competitive specialties is hyperbolic. I’m not saying programs that don’t consider DOs magically will BUT look at the PD survey for Neurosurg. A third of programs report that they are at least willing to interview DOs. But yet only 0-3 DOs match each year. This is bc the total number of DOs applying ACGMe Neurosurg is in the single digits. Thisbalso likely explains why IMGs match so much better in Neurosurg. Bc hundreds apply historically so PDs are more likely to rank them at least in part just by having more exposure

Now you are singing a completing different tune. You said top programs. Now you are saying competitive specialties and using data that does not support your original argument.

 

[Isoval]

Can you?

Sure. My school has matched multiple students into Johns Hopkins, Mayo, and Cleveland Clinic over the past two years.*

* (I don’t consider UTSW or Baylor “elite tier”; this number would increase dramatically if they were included)

Will you?

Probably not.

 

[ClinPathDO]

Can you?

Sure. My school has matched multiple students into Johns Hopkins, Mayo, and Cleveland Clinic over the past two years.*

* (I don’t consider UTSW or Baylor “elite tier”; this number would increase dramatically if they were included)

Will you?

Probably not.

Can you?

Sure. My school has matched multiple students into Johns Hopkins, Mayo, and Cleveland Clinic over the past two years.*

* (I don’t consider UTSW or Baylor “elite tier”; this number would increase dramatically if they were included)

Will you?

Probably not.

Mayo and CCF are very DO friendly, not exactly in the most desired locations. Tougher to match some lower tier California programs then then sometimes.

I’m sure UNT has many graduates end up at UTSW and BCM, just like NYIT places well at NYU and Touro-Ca at UCSF.

(Btw UTSW has 6 Nobel price winners and nature index just ranked them #1 globally for published research in healthcare, If your interested in an academic career it’s a great program on par with many of the “Elite”)

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Mayo and CCF are very DO friendly, not exactly in the most desired locations. Tougher to match some lower tier California programs then then sometimes.

I’m sure UNT has many graduates end up at UTSW and BCM, just like NYIT places well at NYU and Touro-Ca at UCSF.

(Btw UTSW has 6 Nobel price winners and nature index just ranked them #1 globally for published research in healthcare, If your interested in an academic career it’s a great program on par with many of the “Elite”)

I think "many" is a misnomer. These institutions have DOs as residents but they don't take very many at all and they are largely restricted to uncompetitive fields. You really shouldn't be picking any of these institutions with the idea that you'll have a solid shot matching into an élite academic residency in any field outside of PM&R, Path, FM,etc.

 

[Goro]

I think "many" is a misnomer. These institutions have DOs as residents but they don't take very many at all and they are largely restricted to uncompetitive fields. You really shouldn't be picking any of these institutions with the idea that you'll have a solid shot matching into an élite academic residency in any field outside of PM&R, Path, FM,etc.

To follow up, those considering DO schools need to be aware that the odds are ~50% that one will end up in Primary Care or the other DO-friendly specialties. The numbers go up to 60-66% if you attend the oldest schools, like KCOM and CCOM.

I've noticed a trend over the past several years that DOs are managing to match in some competitive fields at Big Name places, but whether they are still Lotto winners, or now in the category of "uncommon, but not rare" is still elusive to figure out.