Do/dpm

[cg2a93]

First US Medical School DPM/DO Program

A pilot program leading to a DO degree for podiatric medical
residents in an accelerated period of time has been established at
Nova Southeastern University College of Osteopathic Medicine (NSU-
COM) beginning with the 2005 academic year.

The program is the result of almost two years of planning with
representatives of NSU-COM including the Dean, Associate Dean for
Education, Planning and Research, Leonard A. Levy, DPM, MPH, and the
American Board of Podiatric Orthopedics and Primary Podiatric
Medicine (ABPOPPM). It will become the first program in the nation
where podiatric physicians will receive training from an American
medical school. This program is not designed for those who have
already completed a podiatric residency or those already in practice.

Summary of the DPM/DO Program

*Complete DPM degree and be accepted into the program
*Matriculate at NSU-COM and complete three years of study, including
COMLEX I and II.
* Receive the DO degree and credit towards requirements leading to
ABPOPPM qualification/certification.
*Complete a DO internship (PGY-1) and COMLEX III, fulfilling the
requirements for a license to practice osteopathic medicine in
states requiring one year of graduate medical education.
*Obtain a license to practice podiatric medicine.
*Unprecedented validation to the general and medical communities
that with the addition of podiatric residency training, full
commensurate physician status may be denoted.

---

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[comatose]

This is just my opinion. If your ultimate goal is to get a DO degree, go to an osteopathic med. school. simple as that. You will save time and money. To me, this just sounds like a trick to get people to go to podiatry school as a backup to med. school.

 

[Buster Douglas]

Interesting stuff...

Seems like a good option for those that realized late that podiatry wasn't for them, but 4yrs (pod school) + 3yrs (med school) + 1yr (DO internship) + 4yrs-7yrs (surgical residency) !!

 

[jconway]

Interesting stuff...

Seems like a good option for those that realized late that podiatry wasn't for them, but 4yrs (pod school) + 3yrs (med school) + 1yr (DO internship) + 4yrs-7yrs (surgical residency) !!

yeah thats a hell of alot of time
and i do think some will use it as a backdoor into medschool
i guess we will have to see if its a goodthing for podiatry or not...
i do like the idea of DO's and DPM's building a professional relationship early on, given that we both have had our battles with "mainstream medicine"
hopefully the length of time required to complete the program will be sufficent to scare away people who just want an alternate route into medschool, and attract students who actually want both degrees
i am guesing having both degrees could open a whole new area of PM&R and have alot of applications in Orthopedics
but again well see
-j

 

[governator]

why would you want both degree?

 

[jconway]

personally i wouldnt want both
b/c i am not sure that the extra degree would positively affect the way i would want to practice medicine, that is to say that I want to be a podiatrist, nothing more or less
however
i think that having both degrees could offer pods an increased understanding and scope of practice in areas of medicine like pm&r(vice versa for DO's and gait mechanics), where you could incorporate that kind of work into a sports medicine-based podiatry practice
....i am really just grabbing at straws here but i cant imagine that having 2 doctorates could do anyhing but increase your ability to help people

....but to be honest the only application i could see would be something like pm&r, where you can continue to help your pts back get back in action after youve corrected their achilles rupture....
however, I am sure that there are more that i dont know about

any thoughts?

 

[Buster Douglas]

Sounds kinda like dentists who get an "MD, DDS" tagged behind their name upon completion of an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery (OMS) residency.

I'm not too sure if the benefits of bit more gait analysis training for a pm&r doc or OMT training for a pod could justify the expense of the program, but a chance to do more procedure$ as a specialized orthopod (or to get out of podiatry all together), for some people, might.

 

[aphistis]

Sounds kinda like dentists who get an "MD, DDS" tagged behind their name upon completion of an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery (OMS) residency.

I'm not too sure if the benefits of bit more gait analysis training for a pm&r doc or OMT training for a pod could justify the expense of the program, but a chance to do more procedure$ as a specialized orthopod (or to get out of podiatry all together), for some people, might.

Just to nitpick on semantics, it's typically "DDS, MD" for dual-degree oral surgeons. No harm, no foul.

 

[box29]

I agree with the above posts in that the DO degree would help with a better understanding of the broader scopes of medicine. In addition, I think the DO degree would increase the treatment modalities with OMM. On another note, it seems there is a discrepancy at some hospitals that won't allow a DPM to admit pts or do a pre-op H&P without an MD/DO (PCP) and therefore the DO degree would bypass this...I said some hospitals.

Did you all read the March Podiatry Management where they talked about DPM,MD degree?

 

[cg2a93]

In the real world the DO or MD degree can help with the problems DPM have with scope in certain states ie. NY. In NY a podiatrist cant legally treat a nondisplaced fracture of the fibula or tibia. You are not allowed to treat wounds above the ankle. These are the most frustrating examples, but if you go through the holland tunnel you are able to treat these things. The DO or MD would allow us to treat the thing we are trained to treat.
It would also open door that are closed to podiatrist in hospital admistration. We would gain parity in reimbursements, some insurance companies pay pods less for the same procedure performed by a MD or DO (in some states this is allowed).
I see alot of advantages to this addition. This is a great step for the podiatry profession.

 

[jconway]

I agree with the above posts in that the DO degree would help with a better understanding of the broader scopes of medicine. In addition, I think the DO degree would increase the treatment modalities with OMM. On another note, it seems there is a discrepancy at some hospitals that won't allow a DPM to admit pts or do a pre-op H&P without an MD/DO (PCP) and therefore the DO degree would bypass this...I said some hospitals.

Did you all read the March Podiatry Management where they talked about DPM,MD degree?

no i didnt read the arcticle...i didnt know there was one..i gotta check it out
i am curious as to how current/practicing pods (both new and established)feel about this issue

 

[box29]

Check it out, it's pretty interesting...Most of the authors are either pushing for integration or changing the degree to MD...Most want the supplementation to complement their DPM practice. I think it's good but there is one concern I think about. It is those who wanted to go into medicine in the first place instead of podiatry and then, if the degree is changed, those students would drop podiatry and go into other medicine fields.

This is not the best way to do it I guess. I am all for complementing and increasing the scope of practice. I think this would definitely add to the well being of patients and health care. Just my $0.02

 

[doc227]

Where did you find the information regarding this program at Nova? I did not see anything about this on their website

 

[spodok]

The info on Nova was found on the Podiatry Management site. Also, MD schools in the US will possibly be offering a similar additonal degree. Personally, if I were in Pod school, I would either switch to a school with the opportunity or demand access through your school to an MD program. In addition, one cannot in all honesty compare MD/DPM to MD/DDS degree. We compete against MD's directly, as we have no ownership of our specified body part as a DDS does. Yes Oral surgeons may compete a little with an MD facial surgeon, but they get direct referals from another DDS.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN MD DEGREE YOU WILL NOT BE COMPETATIVE WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES. YOU MAY AS WELL WORK IN A NAIL SALON.

 

[jconway]

The info on Nova was found on the Podiatry Management site. Also, MD schools in the US will possibly be offering a similar additonal degree. Personally, if I were in Pod school, I would either switch to a school with the opportunity or demand access through your school to an MD program. In addition, one cannot in all honesty compare MD/DPM to MD/DDS degree. We compete against MD's directly, as we have no ownership of our specified body part as a DDS does. Yes Oral surgeons may compete a little with an MD facial surgeon, but they get direct referals from another DDS.

IF YOU DO NOT HAVE AN MD DEGREE YOU WILL NOT BE COMPETATIVE WITH SOMEONE WHO DOES. YOU MAY AS WELL WORK IN A NAIL SALON.

i agree it wouldnt be the exact same thing as a ddds/md I am just arguing that there would be alot of simliarities b/c there is a prohibitive amount of time/money that needs to be invested, and unless you do a second residency, you will probably only be recieving an academic degree

and give me a break with the nail salon thing, most patients i have met have no clue what the hell a dpm degree is, they usually think they are just seeing a "doc"; maybe I am naive, but if your pts like you they probably wont care about your degree, although it could be harder getting started without the md...but again we wont see that begin to happen for another10-15 yrs; so we will have to wait and see

 

[spodok]

and give me a break with the nail salon thing, most patients i have met have no clue what the hell a dpm degree is, they usually think they are just seeing a "doc"; maybe I am naive, but if your pts like you they probably wont care about your degree, although it could be harder getting started without the md...but again we wont see that begin to happen for another10-15 yrs; so we will have to wait and see

Wait and see? Are you serious? If you are in school now you are going to wait and see what happens? It is happening. Do you see all the ads in the yellowpages for "reconstruction ln the foot and leg surgeon" Podiatrists? They have somehow been lead to believe that if they do a 2 or 3 year PSR that people will come crawling to them to have leg reconstruction!... While some states forbid a Podiatrist to even fix a simple ankle fracture. One would do much better just going to a Medical School after Pod school and having a real shot at a successful career via a residency in a Medical field. Then the DPM/MD can employ someone who wanted to "wait and see" to do all the palliation that needs to be done.

 

[Intubater_X]

While some states forbid a Podiatrist to even fix a simple ankle fracture.

As well they should! I wouldn't send my dog to a podiatrist to fix HIS ankle fracture. Those guys just don't have the experience/knowledge/dedication that an actual doctor has.

 

[jconway]

Wait and see? Are you serious? If you are in school now you are going to wait and see what happens? It is happening. Do you see all the ads in the yellowpages for "reconstruction ln the foot and leg surgeon" Podiatrists? They have somehow been lead to believe that if they do a 2 or 3 year PSR that people will come crawling to them to have leg reconstruction!... While some states forbid a Podiatrist to even fix a simple ankle fracture. One would do much better just going to a Medical School after Pod school and having a real shot at a successful career via a residency in a Medical field. Then the DPM/MD can employ someone who wanted to "wait and see" to do all the palliation that needs to be done.

dude look at my post,
i am just saying that we shouldnt all start jumping out the windows yet
....there is ONE pilot program that has been setup
thats all... we have no idea what the overall effect of the will be program(it could tank next year for all we know), as a matter of fact on another thread, we were all trying to figure out what the specific advantages to doing both degrees (as opposed to doing just one of them)

and you neglected the first half of my post

its alot of time and money to be invested for an academic degree
getting an extra degree without an additional residency will not increase your scope....period

and since there is NOT ONE current practicing DPM/DO from this pilot program yet...WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE how many ppl go for the dual degrees then, out of those, how many will pursue lower extremity work(instead of just becoming MD's and neglecting their podiatric training for something like IM/ER/etc)

but i agree that as students should be aware and inquisitive

or the sky could be falling and all podiatrists will be begging for quarters on the side of the street...

p.s.
what are you trying to say with the leg reconstruction bit....i dont know anyone in my school that thinks they are opening a practice and gonna start rebuilding legs.....i think everyone realizes that the way scope/parody/etc is now...there are few opportunities in most states at this time
ankles are a different story, thats something that has to get changed

 

[jconway]

As well they should! I wouldn't send my dog to a podiatrist to fix HIS ankle fracture. Those guys just don't have the experience/knowledge/dedication that an actual doctor has.

by the way
i wouldnt send my dog to a podiatrist either...
i'd send him to a vet....idiot

by the way brachial/gas_man....hows that virginity working out for you?
-"life is good to those who excel"
-j

 

[Intubater_X]

by the way
i wouldnt send my dog to a podiatrist either...
i'd send him to a vet....idiot

by the way brachial/gas_man....hows that virginity working out for you?
-"life is good to those who excel"
-j

It is YOU who is the idiot, foot-boy. How does it feel to have privileges below the ankle only? What a joke..........

Don't know about the virginity, as I have more sex in a week than you have all year.........Oh well........like you said - "Life is good to those who excel"



How true!!

 

[efs]

Just want to give you all a bit more to think about, rather than my thoughts.

There are some DPM/MDs and DPM/DOs out there already. The programs they had to go through are only 1 year longer than this new proposed program. They did a 4 year DPM degree, and then a 4 year MD or DO degree. I'm sure there are a variety of residency training scenarios that these people went through. I'm guessing that most if not all that went on to MD or DO programs also went on to do MD or DO residencies.

What are they doing now? Did they use their MD/DO training to supplement their DPM practice, or did they switch tracks altogether and not use their Podiatry backgrounds?

What are the benefits to having the additional MD or DO degree? Is it worth an additional 3-4 years +/- additional residency training, and $60-90,000?

Just a couple things to think about.

PS There are obviously a few people posting on here that have no idea what they are talking about. For the most part it is pretty easy to ignore their idiocy.

 

[jconway]

It is YOU who is the idiot, foot-boy. How does it feel to have privileges below the ankle only? What a joke..........

Don't know about the virginity, as I have more sex in a week than you have all year.........Oh well........like you said - "Life is good to those who excel"



How true!!

priviledges..they feel just fine to me

and as to the latter half of your post...
teddybears with bellybuttons dont count
...same goes for devices made out of molded plastic
...and people passed out on the subway

"remember folks the 10 oclock show is completley different then the 8 oclock show"

 

[Energon]

You really can't compare the DPM/DO with the DMD/MD here. As someone rightly said before, pods are unfortunate not to have sole proprietorship of a body part to practice upon. OMS is an extremely intense independent branch of surgery which requires a practioner to have a DMD/DDS.

At first, the DO option may sound very palatable to DPM candidates for many reasons. However, this may not be the best thing for Podiatry as a field! In last months Journal of the American Dental Association (JADA) there was an article about the huge push to make dentistry a medical subspecialty (like ENT or Optho). Some of the main reasons for this being:
1. A high number of dentists are usually the first ones to detect hypertension, H&N cancerous lesions, skin lesions etc
2. Early detection of possible problems with prescriptions etc.
3. Link between dental and systemic problems (cardiac, low birth weight etc).

There are whole bunch of dentists and primary care physicians who think that if so many dentists are in the position of detecting these problems, they should be obliged to diagnose and treat them as well. However, the rest of the dental community is against this because it will dilute the field on a whole.
If pods obliterate the line between a podiatrist and physicians, they will lose a lot more business to orthopedic surgeons and other physicians who will jump on the band wagon. I have seen a lot of posts here about the notoriety of pods eating their young.... think, do you need more people fighting for your piece of pie? Keep podiatry as it is and work to better organizing the profession to give its practioners an advantage. Joining the mainstream medical community may not be the best way to go.

 

[Intubater_X]

priviledges..they feel just fine to me

QUOTE]

Priviledges?!?! Learn to spell, inferior. Oh.......that's right; you're a podiatrist, it isn't necessary.

 

[ProdPod]

That is really great insight AMMD. I have to agree with you on those points but at the other extreme, I think the AMA will force the APMA to get their act together as far as standardizing some of the podiatric residencies, level of training, and scope of practice in all states.

 

[jconway]

You really can?t compare the DPM/DO with the DMD/MD here. As someone rightly said before, pods are unfortunate not to have sole proprietorship of a body part to practice upon. OMS is an extremely intense independent branch of surgery which requires a practioner to have a DMD/DDS.

At first, the DO option may sound very palatable to DPM candidates for many reasons. However, this may not be the best thing for Podiatry as a field! In last months Journal of the American Dental Association (JADA) there was an article about the huge push to make dentistry a medical subspecialty (like ENT or Optho). Some of the main reasons for this being:
1. A high number of dentists are usually the first ones to detect hypertension, H&N cancerous lesions, skin lesions etc
2. Early detection of possible problems with prescriptions etc.
3. Link between dental and systemic problems (cardiac, low birth weight etc).

There are whole bunch of dentists and primary care physicians who think that if so many dentists are in the position of detecting these problems, they should be obliged to diagnose and treat them as well. However, the rest of the dental community is against this because it will dilute the field on a whole.
If pods obliterate the line between a podiatrist and physicians, they will lose a lot more business to orthopedic surgeons and other physicians who will jump on the band wagon. I have seen a lot of posts here about the notoriety of pods eating their young.... think, do you need more people fighting for your piece of pie? Keep podiatry as it is and work to better organizing the profession to give its practioners an advantage. Joining the mainstream medical community may not be the best way to go.

i think you have a good point there, and there is a definate chance of us getting more infighting
but as far as orthpods/other providers jumping in...dont they already have license to do so without having a dpm tagged on?
normally they tend to stay away b/c they either dont have the training to feel comfortable/dont want to be bothered with it/whatever, so i am ont sure what really changes with the duel degree...

but i dunno...i still think that length of time will be the ultimate preventative measure....i cant see a huge push of pods (as in, enough to hurt the field)going to school for another 3 yrs plus doing a dual residency

i think (like u said)...there is a difference between an md/dds..and an md/dpm(b/c dds are the only ones licensed to do dental work)....

however, the similarity that i was alluding to was in reference to one poster's argument that all dpms will become useless without the md.....i was simply saying that the dds did not become uselss when ppl started getting dds/md's. instead the dds/md's became intensly specialized....it doesnt seem
to far fetched to me that the same could feasibly happen with this degree...

perhaps you would have LE experts that specialized in rebuliding knees and hips/or lower extremity vascular surgery/or sports medicine or something....all of which are fields that are covered by other areas of medicine but could be better served by an even more specialized degree (how much different is that from the OMFS and plastics overlap), again, i am not sure where this will all go, (i am pretty much hypothesizing here) and it could be a slippery slope...
but i guess we will have to wait and see and just be aware

thanks for the insights everybody, plz keep it coming

-j

ps

if i had to guess the biggest reason why the ama wants dentistry to be incorporated into the MD scope...id guess it would be money..DDS's have avioded alot of the managed care problems of other medical fields, and the idea of getting another "cash field" with "low malpractice rates" into the MD world has got to make alot of ppls mouths water

dds's should fight against that...the ada's strength as a lobbying body probably depends on it being the sole provider of dental care...you take that away..and alot of dds' will have to start working the "slave hours" of other medical fields as the field would eventualy become insurance dependant

 

[Energon]

if i had to guess the biggest reason why the ama wants dentistry to be incorporated into the MD scope...id guess it would be money..DDS's have avioded alot of the managed care problems of other medical fields, and the idea of getting another "cash field" with "low malpractice rates" into the MD world has got to make alot of ppls mouths water

dds's should fight against that...the ada's strength as a lobbying body probably depends on it being the sole provider of dental care...you take that away..and alot of dds' will have to start working the "slave hours" of other medical fields as the field would eventualy become insurance dependant

So true so true. A lot of it is about $$$. Nonetheless, there are also strong points about dentists having to take responsibility for diagnosing and treating diseases like htn, drug interactions, hormonal diseases and pretty much all other issues dealt with by primary care providers that they are trained to detect. Of course, that would also mean a pay cut for the dentist. Its a lot easier to say: ms Jones please go to your FP coz your BP is too high and use the rest of the session to do a few more crown and bridge cases instead of keeping ms Jones in the office to do blood work and recommend treatment.

As far as specializing the pod field, its going to be very hard. Like you pointed out, dentists have total control over any ailments of the oral cavity; hence it was very easy for them to expand their field. Secondly, OMS is specialty that has world wide accreditation. Pods will find it much harder. Infact, they may lose even more control over their own field due to the ever so fragmented and hierarchal medical system where Orthopods and Vascular surgeons will always claim superiority in any and all forms of policy making. At least now DPMs can do their own thing. Also I have never seen podiatrists anywhere else in the world which makes you guys a pretty small team.
That said and done, the option to become a podiatric physician will still be a very enticing option, its just that you have to be careful who you are getting into bed with.


Keep em coming

 

[spodok]

I don't know how many of you have lived in the "real world", but there seems to be a bit of naivete here. In the real world, insurance companies RULE the private sector, and a good part of Medicare (medicare HMO). You are not allowed to participate in many plans because you have a DPM after your name. They tell you the panel is full or they will not answer your request to get on plan. You therefore cannot exist unless you work for a group. A group will hire the first DPM/MD that comes along and not a DPM. Many podiatrists in practice will obtain an MD degree in the next few years also.

A DPM/MD will suck all the O2 out of the competative atmosphere. On a 100% relative value scale on a DPM/MD... I give 10/90. So many more opportunities, not to mention sooo much more income.

You are doomed before you even start practicing, unless you want to be the little practice b#$&h and run the whirlpool and do toenils all day every day. Hey if thats what you like, why not just save all that money and work in a nail salon.

I found this board by chance after reading a Podiatry Management article on Podiatry Hate Sites. I have been in practice many years and have been very successful, but I see the writing on the wall. Just trying to help some of you from a big mistake.

 

[ProdPod]

That was a bunch of bull-crap. ALL doctors have a difficult time getting on insurance panels, not just podiatrists. The DPM/DO is valuable for ego and/or if you desire on changing to a different branch of medicine.

 

[spodok]

That was a bunch of bull-crap. ALL doctors have a difficult time getting on insurance panels, not just podiatrists. The DPM/DO is valuable for ego and/or if you desire on changing to a different branch of medicine.

1. I practice with an Inernist, we started about the same time. He gets on plans and I don't get even a reply. You are wrong.

2.I didnt mention DPM/DO I mentions DPM/MD.

3. You are typical of most failures, shoot the messenger, ignore the messege.

Getting a dual degree keeps doors open, the ones that get it, (and many, many will) will slam it in your face. You are like mutton among the wolves. I was just trying to give some tough love, but like so man others, you nod and grin at the bullshi#@ers with one hand in your pocket, the other in your nose.

 

[ProdPod]

Hey,
I doubt your views or advice are given any serious consideration being as though you need to name call when I strongly disagreed with your opinion. Maybe the reason you seem to have problems in this profession stem from your lack of class and personal skills by which you demonstrate. I never shot the messenger, the messenger shot himself!

Another person gets added to the ignore list!

 

[jconway]

1. I practice with an Inernist, we started about the same time. He gets on plans and I don't get even a reply. You are wrong.

2.I didnt mention DPM/DO I mentions DPM/MD.

3. You are typical of most failures, shoot the messenger, ignore the messege.

Getting a dual degree keeps doors open, the ones that get it, (and many, many will) will slam it in your face. You are like mutton among the wolves. I was just trying to give some tough love, but like so man others, you nod and grin at the bullshi#@ers with one hand in your pocket, the other in your nose.

the only dual degree available right now is the dpm/do
there is no dpm/md program at this time
not that they are any different in my opinion
can someone explain to me why they think there will be a huge push to go for the 2nd degree?
i mean you are only gaining one yr with this program....if its so enticing...wouldnt ppl have been just getting their md/do right after completing a dpm prior to this programs existence???

i mean having a dpm and good grades really does give you a goodshot at DO schools normally(not sure about MD schools) so its not like this program is really offering anything besides 1 yr.....

or am i missing something?

p.s.
spodok...i dont get that last analogy
not trying to be a smart @ss...but i dont get what your trying to say
...and if you want ppl to listen to your advice...try taking the edge off...if you are trying to help i appreciate it...but you just sound like your hitting us with rhetoric and propaganda

 

[spodok]

Sorry Jconway, I wasnt trying to get nasty. That is not my intent.

Temple University is very close to starting a dpm/md program. That is yet to be seen but is now up for vote with some board. If i were at another school i would demand parity with Temple or switch there. If a school cannot offer you the best educatinal opportunities than they shuld not take your money. Forget about the do/dpm program, who wants 2 'wierdo' degrees.

I don't know where you go to Pod school, but when i was there we had many losers and liers teaching us. I learned to stick with positive people and did very well. That is the most important thing to remember.

An extra year or 2 or 3 even to get an md will pay for itself many times over and allow you to sleep at night.

 

[spodok]

Hey,
I doubt your views or advice are given any serious consideration being as though you need to name call when I strongly disagreed with your opinion. Maybe the reason you seem to have problems in this profession stem from your lack of class and personal skills by which you demonstrate. I never shot the messenger, the messenger shot himself!

Another person gets added to the ignore list!

This is the sort of person to stay away from in podiatry. This guy is scared to death and chooses to stick his head in the sand. They love to take his money, say nice things to him, pat him on the back. He will never read this post since he put me on his ignorant list. I bet he has all these names on this little list of people who he believes do not say "nice things". A mutton wandering in the forest full of wolves with his eyes closed.

 

[ProdPod]

The rumor is that Temple is starting that DPM/MD program which will probably be open to all of the Temple students. I don't know if it will be available to everyone. Anyways, if it does not make you have to shell out an extra $50,000, I don't see the problem. Later!

 

[spodok]

The rumor is that Temple......

Put me on ignore huh??? what a liar.

 

[freddydpt]

I think we need to think about what skills a DPM would have to complement a DO and vice versa. For example, osteopaths learn joint mobilizations of the foot and ankle (among other parts of the body) which would certainly aid in biomechanics of gait and other activities. In addition, DPM's cover in more detail wound debridement and foot hygeine... VERY valuable skills for patients with diabetes. Bottom line, these two distinct skill sets can become very beneficial for your patients. Someone with a DPM and a DO is likely to find and treat the most debilitating factor in the patient sooner.

I, myself, chose to do two clinical doctorates, one in physical therapy and one in medicine. The possibilities with this combination are endless...

Sports Medicine
PM&R
Orthopedics
Ob/Gyn... yes there is PT for this too!
Pediatrics and Developmental Medicine
... and the list can keep going.

For me it was never about money... it was about what I can offer the patient. I think the DPM/DO as a whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

 

[ItsGavinC]

You really can?t compare the DPM/DO with the DMD/MD here. As someone rightly said before, pods are unfortunate not to have sole proprietorship of a body part to practice upon. OMS is an extremely intense independent branch of surgery which requires a practioner to have a DMD/DDS.

Absolutely correct. ALL oral surgeons have a dental degree, but not all have a medical degree. And, in 99% of the cases the dual degree dentists chose the dual path in order to get more surgical expertise as well as advanced hospital training. Very few of them puruse avenues of medicine. With the economy as it stands, the DMD/DDS behind their name is more lucrative than the MD they earn through a dual program.

Sorry to barge in.

 

[ProdPod]

What are the salary differences between a general dentist and oral surgeon?

 

[Energon]

What are the salary differences between a general dentist and oral surgeon?

Question is too broad. Its all about how you set up and operate your practice. There are general dentists out there making 7 figure incomes while some OMS are barely breaking 150g's. Gen dents are allowed to do anything they feel comfortable with including complex extractions, implant placements etc. Oral surgeons survive mostly on referrals (like all other specialists) and baseline hospital pay for trauma cases and teaching (if they do it). As an oral surgeon, you can demand higher pay (specialist scale) for the work that you do, so yes on a whole, they have the opportunity to make higher pay than a general dentist. Ofcourse then there are those few superstars who have done plastic surgery residences and have limited their practice to esthetic/ cosmetic surgeries... these cats are pulling doe you wouldn't believe.
On a whole, OS pay has reduced considerably since their induction into the illustrious managed care system. It has subsequently reduced the popularity of the specialty as well. OS market in my area is pretty saturated and they make about 150-250k. In the rural areas they have the opportunity to make a lot more.

 

[governator]

man, 7 yrs of schooling + residency is one hell of a long road. If you want to be a DPM/MD or DPM/DO, might as well just go straight to medical school and maybe shadow a podiatrist during your clinical years if you want to supplement your knowledge of biomechanics/debridements and stuff.

There's a DPM turn DO student in this forum, which pretty much is doing this DPM/DO route (1 extra yr i guess), maybe he could share his opinion on this.

 

[Toejam]

I haven't read this particular thread, but I've seen several just like it.

I'm a DPM just finishing my first year of DO school.

The idea of hooking together a DPM with a DO license is totally ludicrous! It is so, so clearly just a backdoor way to becoming a full body physician. Just what do you think you're going to do with both degrees? If you think you're going to somehow make more money practicing podiatry along with whatever specialty you choose for DO, you're mistaken. How is this going to happen? You could see just as many patients as an internist as you would a pod (maybe as a pod). And, the way that pods are paid, you'd make more as an internist. So how does this make any sense? If you're thinking surgery, why not be an orthopedic surgeon? That way you would be sure to get on any number of insurance plans AND have a greater variety of surgical procedures to choose from. It would also be a HELL OF A LOT EASIER to find work after your residency. If you're thinking palliative and/or orthotics, these are slowly being eliminated from all insurance plans. Medicare won't pay for any of it. NONE. Medi-Caid pays so little that it won't be worth your time. If you don't have any idea what both degrees will do for you, don't take that risk.

Clearly, if someone wanted to do foot and ankle AND be a full body doc, the most logical way to go about it would be to get into DO or MD school and specialize in ORTHO! That way, you can surgically treat your patients (with far more education in general ortho surgery) and then, if necessary, treat them with podiatry post-operatively. Oh, yeah. You will also avoid prejudiced *****s, lower paying insurance companies, closed off insurance plans, higher scrutiny from the Medi-Medi cops, etc., etc.

 

[spodok]

"It is so, so clearly just a backdoor way to becoming a full body physician."


Thats really the idea behind it. I also have heard the theory of changing the name Podiatry to "Podometry" to delineate the later as a four year palliative degree and the DO/DPM to "Podiatrics".

 

[jconway]

" I also have heard the theory of changing the name Podiatry to "Podometry" to delineate the later as a four year palliative degree and the DO/DPM to "Podiatrics".

thats the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard
please stop spreading misinformation

 

[spodok]

thats the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard
please stop spreading misinformation

Stop spreading misinformation? Did you read my post on Temple? Was that misinformation?
Besides, what is ridiculous about palliative care? That is our only monopoly. One makes more doing wound care in the office all morning than surgery all morning in an outside facility. Maybe thats not what you want to hear but it is the honest truth.

 

[cg2a93]

Thats not true. Wound care is not as lucrative as surgery.
There is no talk of changing the name of podiatry or any delineation between the dpm or dpm/do, that is a untruth.

 

[spodok]

Thats not true. Wound care is not as lucrative as surgery.
There is no talk of changing the name of podiatry or any delineation between the dpm or dpm/do, that is a untruth.

Yes it is. Not only that, but take an average run of the mill neuroma:
You can treat it with 7 sclerosing injections vs. surgical excision.
You can look up the codes and re-imbursemet and find out for yourself.

Then look up the codes for wound care and add that up.

After all that see how much you get for talking someone into a free pair of shoes.


If you can manage to look all that up, then you will know it is true. Facts are in the numbers. Don't let your emotion get in the way of the facts. You may have made that mistake when you got into Podiatry.

 

[cg2a93]

I do both everyday, if you know how to bill correctly and pick the right procedures , surgery is still more lucrative.
p.s. : stop the immature jabs, your the only one who looks bad when you do it. Podiatry was one of the best move I ever made

 

[spodok]

, if you know how to bill correctly and pick the right procedures , surgery is still more lucrative.

You should know how to do the SURGERY correctly and pick the right BILL to fit the procedure, not the other way around. No small wonder why you find it more lucrative. Anyone wonder why podiatry is watched so closely?

 

[jconway]

spodok..stop it..you know what he meant

your being a dild0

billing today is tough b/c insurance companies dont ever really explain to you what your supposed to bill and how its supposed ot be done..they withold payment whenever/however they can

understanding how to bill is something all medical professionals have to learn...ethics have nothing to do with it b/c there really is no clear cut rules as to what merits what coding....there are entire sections of magazine dedicated to helping ppl understand coding and reimbursements..jesus ppl hold seminars on this stuff....do some ppl rape the system? of course (ie... 20 k bunions) but by and large...coding is just friggin confusing

and as far as the in office dispensing of shoes...thats a choice every pod has to make based on what they feel comfortable with(alot of pods dont want to feel like they are becoming salesmen; right wrong or indifferent its a choice everyone has to make)

and there is no talk of making the dpm a "palative podometry" degree
what... ONE program gets started..... and now the entire field of podiatry is throwing out all of its benchmarks and renaming its degree, all pods are gonna suddenly start cutting BACK their scopes and let these 20-30 new dpm/do's become podiatric surgeons?
give me a break

i dont know what your story is....but stop with the doomsday rhetoric...its transparent...

-j