Do DR programs dismiss your application if it has IR involvement

[SweetBurger]

On fence of only applying DR or dual applying DR/IR. Do DR programs dismiss your application if it has any level of IR involvement? Late in the game was considering IR but now thinking maybe I should just do DR as I have a stronger application for just DR (and maybe leave any of my IR related stuff off).

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[tomballunger]

They don't mind if you have ir stuff. Just explain how you felt dr was a better fit after rotating through both. Ir and Dr tend to be under 1 radiology department with a few exceptions and interview days are combined, the ir applicants will be expected to interview with Dr faculty. Ir research is somewhat applicable to Dr research too

 

[Cognovi]

On fence of only applying DR or dual applying DR/IR. Do DR programs dismiss your application if it has any level of IR involvement? Late in the game was considering IR but now thinking maybe I should just do DR as I have a stronger application for just DR (and maybe leave any of my IR related stuff off).

I wouldn't say they dismiss IR applicants, but do consider it when putting down a rank list so that they don't match a DR class that's full of people who are set on IR.

 

[irwarrior]

Heard about this more and more that there is an IR bias. ie if you have IR research, involvement in SIR and IR sub internships that they may not get interviews and if they do get interviews that they are ranked lower on the DR list due to IR involvement. IR PD are also weary of taking someone with a lot of DR involvement for fear of dropping out of the more rigorous IR residency as the IR group want to see an early and clear dedication and passion to interventional .

 

[SweetBurger]

Heard about this more and more that there is an IR bias. ie if you have IR research, involvement in SIR and IR sub internships that they may not get interviews and if they do get interviews that they are ranked lower on the DR list due to IR involvement. IR PD are also weary of taking someone with a lot of DR involvement for fear of dropping out of the more rigorous IR residency as the IR group want to see an early and clear dedication and passion to interventional .

Interesting about an early passion for IR, id say most the people i know applying IR did not find the field till 3rd year if not early 4th year. Not a lot of exposure to it. Granted i guess the same could be say for other subspecialties in medicine.

 

[problematicfavorite]

Heard about this more and more that there is an IR bias. ie if you have IR research, involvement in SIR and IR sub internships that they may not get interviews and if they do get interviews that they are ranked lower on the DR list due to IR involvement. IR PD are also weary of taking someone with a lot of DR involvement for fear of dropping out of the more rigorous IR residency as the IR group want to see an early and clear dedication and passion to interventional .

Applied IR/DR this cycle, there definitely is an IR bias as far as interviews go. I did not receive any DR interviews that were not attached to IR. A small handful of programs invited me to interview with IR only, and their DR application process was entirely separate. I don't think it will affect rank lists as much unless it's obvious you show no interest in DR at all, but only time will tell.

 

[RadsRocks!]

When i applied to DR I had an IR PD LOR and research and no one said anything negative. After all, it is just a subfield within radiology. It can only help you imo as it shows you have more interest in radiology

 

[SeisK]

When i applied to DR I had an IR PD LOR and research and no one said anything negative. After all, it is just a subfield within radiology. It can only help you imo as it shows you have more interest in radiology

In my time since applying I’ve seen the animosity between IR and DR grow considerably. This may translate into how applicants are perceived.

 

[Clean7795]

How does call work now since IR had its own pathway?

I'm wondering if having a larger DR pool means more residents to spread DR resident call amongst.

 

[odyssey2]

In my time since applying I’ve seen the animosity between IR and DR grow considerably. This may translate into how applicants are perceived.

Can you think of any reasons why?

 

[irwarrior]

They are becoming fundamentally different fields. As DR do less and less procedures and do more and more remote reading and as VIR is becoming more and more patient centric (running clinics, admitting patients ) , the two fields have diverging needs. It would be nice if all DR subspecialties were more similar to mammography where it sees patients and does procedures. Within the house of ACR, VIR physicians are more aligned with mammographers and radiation oncologists. The VIR physician under the governance of DR chair often struggles to get funding to run clinics and are often held to DR standards of RVUs (which is hard for a VIR physician to compete with DR with due to the sheer volume of DR studies and high RVU generation). The DR chair feels that the VIR physicians are not holding their weight and feel that DR often has to subsidize the VIR group financially. Unfortunately that is carrying over to trainee bias. Some VIR residents are not taking their DR rotations as seriously as they should and I can understand if I was a teacher I would be less inclined to educate some one who is not as passionate about their field. In a similar fashion many DR residents are becoming more averse to doing procedures or performing the increasing clinical care requirements of the modern day VIR rotation.

 

[NDcienporciento100]

I know some DR programs that will not rank you or rank you last if they know you want to do IR. I know some programs that don’t care (live and let live). I know IR programs that won’t rank you if you say you like DR and want to do some DR. I know IR programs that won’t rank you if you say you don’t want to do DR and only want to practice IR. So how do you know what to say?! You could take a mind reading course. If that fails. In general IRs that read no diagnostic you will do ok by telling them all you want to do is IR. In general if the IRs read some DR tell them you want to read some DR when you are done. Then after you match do whatever the **** you want to do.
Busy IR employed physicians in academia or if hospital employed make the hospital a ton of money because the global fee doing the procedure makes the hospital $$$. If you work for a radiology group in a hospital and you’re a busy IR, most likely all your group will get is the professional fee. The professional fee reading studys all day is much higher than the professional fee doing procedures all day. The hospital will be happy if you do procedures all day in a radiology group because they get the global fee however your group will often be pissed because the professional fee is less.

 

[irwarrior]

True. There is so much variability in what interviewers want to hear. The main fears from IR PD are the drop outs from IR to DR. They want to make sure that the IR applicant has a decent understanding of what they are getting themselves into. They look for multiple VIR away rotations and earlier exposure to the specialty (including going to multiple SIR meetings) than historically was acceptable. The other concern from IR PD is that applications to the Independent residency has dramatically decreased in the last few years and so they are looking to shift their training from independent spots to more integrated residency spots.

 

[SeisK]

The main fears from IR PD are the drop outs from IR to DR

There is no way around this. I don’t foresee these dropouts ending, and I don’t see any reliable metric to evaluate to try to head it off. My suspicion is 1/3 of all surgeon trainees, if given formal training in DR with the “out” from clinical work that comes with it, would take that ticket and run once they know better.

 

[irwarrior]

Probably true, but similar to surgical disciplines it will be imperative that the VIR applicant has a deeper understanding of what a VIR life reflects and that includes doing multiple busy VIR rotations. Interventional PD may be weary of taking someone with limited VIR exposure.