DO EM disadvantage

[BMW19]

Just curious,

I have heard a lot of people say that as a DO you should really take the USMLE and go for an allopathic residency. Are osteopathic EM residencies not producing good quality physicians. I just thought it might be more advantageous to go for an osteopathic EM res. being that it is your own. Can anyone elaborate?

BMW-

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[MasterintuBater]

There are (a few) quality D.O. EM residencies. Do a search to find out which ones. Multiple threads address them. You don't have to take the USMLE to get an allopathic EM residency. COMLEX is just fine. One issue is the 4 years required in a D.O. program vs. 3 yrs in most M.D. programs. With either length of training, you will have the same basic competencies coming out of the program.

 

[OSUdoc08]

There are (a few) quality D.O. EM residencies. Do a search to find out which ones. Multiple threads address them. You don't have to take the USMLE to get an allopathic EM residency. COMLEX is just fine. One issue is the 4 years required in a D.O. program vs. 3 yrs in most M.D. programs. With either length of training, you will have the same basic competencies coming out of the program.

UT-Southwestern requires the USMLE. I recently spoke with the program director.

 

[DrMom]

Looking at how the process is going this year, I'd definitely recommend that DO students interested in EM take the USMLE. I'd also recommend that you schedule the COMLEX-CE & PE relatively early in 4th year so that you have scores well before the match.

 

[BMW19]

Thanks guys. I thought the one year DO internship was only if you practiced in certain states? Are all EM, DO residencies 4 years?

BMW-

Looking at how the process is going this year, I'd definitely recommend that DO students interested in EM take the USMLE. I'd also recommend that you schedule the COMLEX-CE & PE relatively early in 4th year so that you have scores well before the match.

 

[DrMom]

All DO EM programs are 4 years.

Yes, the Osteo internship is only required in 5 states.

 

[fuegorama]

Can you elaborate on your perception of the "process". As a MSIII it seems like 75% of my class is talking EM. How is this playing out on the run-up for 2006?
Thanks.

 

[DrMom]

IMO, EM is even more competitive this year. The NBOME doesn't make the COMLEX straight-forward to interpret, so it certainly makes it simpler for the PDs to compare everyone with a USMLE rather than trying to figure out the COMLEX. Also, if there are more MD students applying for EM spots, they're likely to automatically be more attractive to PDs. I think that having a USMLE score lessens this because it makes the applicants look less *different*.

If you're an MS3 looking at EM who didn't take the USMLE for step 1, remember that you can take step 2 alone. That appeared to help out one of my classmates with getting ACGME residency interviews.

I applied to both AOA and ACGME programs this year, but have decided to participate only in the AOA match (for a variety of personal reasons). I didn't take the USMLE and I think that it hurt me with a number of ACGME programs. That said, I have been getting interview invites from others.

Remember, just like getting into med school in the first place, there is a certain *crapshoot* aspect to applying for residency. Do anything you can to make your application more attractive.



It'll be interesting to see how competitive EM really is this year after the match results are out. Hard to really come up with anything other than opinion at this point.

 

[Dr.MISHKA D.O.]

Just to throw in my two cents. I believe there are about maybe a dozen quality Osteopathic EM Residencies (not meant as inflammatory just my humble opinion.) That being said I am applying to one of them (as the rest of them are not in places I/My lovely wife find desirable to live.) Otherwise I am applying Allopathic in an attempt to stay in certian regions of the country. The perception that "all DO EM residencies are not quality" is an (false) assumption by allopathic/some Osteopathic students/residents based on the fact that most DO EM residencies are in community hospitals and not academic centers.

The truth about that is that just because a program is community based and not academic in nature doesn't make it sub par in any way, just practice focused and not research focused. Take for example (using my experiences) Resurrection in Chicago, a community based EM program. I found the Attendings and Residents to be very, very smart, talented, interested in practicing evidence based medicine, and the residents get an oppurtunity to take care of very sick patients. One learns most from experience, and they get plenty of it at Resurrection.

On the other hand I also did a month of EM at Masonic (UIC program) and I found the quality of the residents to be quite sub par to the RES residents in knowledge and management, as well as in confidence in their procedures (which are often taken from them by the Trauma team or the attendings trying to "move pts").
All that being said I will probably (much to my own surprise) choose a DO EM as my first choice rather than skip the AOA match. I found the program I am choosing very solid, with great teaching and good rotations in some of America's finest hospitals. (By the way shouldn't we all agree the "AOA Match" is a bit of a joke, with all the "letters of intent" signed before match day.)

Yes DO programs are 4 years (counting internship), but so are some of the best Allopathic: Einstein, Cook County, Northwestern, Etc.

Yes you need to do an internship if you ever hope to rise to any AOA position (i.e. EM program director, Dean of AOA school, Etc) or at least get your allo internship resolution 42 approved

Yes you should take USMLE step 2 when applying. I took it and it was comparable to the Comlex and I did quite well - 99/250. Programs starting knocking on my door after seeing my score. I would avoid USMLE step 1 if your like me and suck at Biochem, Epi, math, boring crap in general (I did not take USMLE 1)

Yes you should be proud of your degree. Be a proud DO (you are not some second rate MD) I have been kicking the butts of students from some very good schools (e.g. Loyola, Rush, UIC, Nortwestern, Brown) as well as some not so good schools (Oklahoma, UT, Texas A+M) during my rotations, and there are many at my school better than me (see DrMoM, Idiopathic, Etc)

Yes DO's can work in Europe (YEAH!)

Yes DO chicks are way hotter! 'nuff said (See inappropriate OMT attire thread)

Later and good luck to everyone

The Mish

 

[bla_3x]

regarding the usmle/comlex for EM.

Is there a cutoff, so to speak, of comlex score that could be considered "safe" to use?
i.e. if you are above like a certain percentile on the comlex would it be a safer bet to just use that and not take the usmle step II?

 

[DrMom]

regarding the usmle/comlex for EM.

Is there a cutoff, so to speak, of comlex score that could be considered "safe" to use?
i.e. if you are above like a certain percentile on the comlex would it be a safer bet to just use that and not take the usmle step II?

The point is not that an applicant's COMLEX score is too low, but rather that the ACGME PDs job is simpler with a straightforward way to compare applicants. Also, the NBOME doesn't release the percentiles (which are easily interpretable), but instead use a random 2-digit score that is very different from the USMLE 2-digit system.

 

[Derek]

I just want to encourage those D.O. students out there who only took the COMLEX to seekout and rank #1 the program that they really want to be at, whether it is MD or DO. If you want a spot at an MD program and you only took the COMLEX don't think of yourself as inferior to the other applicants, because your not and if you think you are that will be found out in your interviews.

I was told I coldn't get into medical school when I applied in 97' because my MCAT was 2 under the average. I got into AZCOM. I was then told I couldn't match into allopathic FP for residency without taking the USMLE, I matched at my #1 choice Mayo Clinic-Scottsdale. After finishing that residency I decided to apply for EM residency and was told that I had used all my Medicare funding, no programs would take me unfunded and EM is too competitive for a DO who only took the COMLEX, I matched at my #1 choice again Texas Tech.

Bottom line, don't listen to the lies and beware of some DO's (not all) who eat their young.

 

[DrMom]

I just want to encourage those D.O. students out there who only took the COMLEX to seekout and rank #1 the program that they really want to be at, whether it is MD or DO. If you want a spot at an MD program and you only took the COMLEX don't think of yourself as inferior to the other applicants, because your not and if you think you are that will be found out in your interviews.

I was told I coldn't get into medical school when I applied in 97' because my MCAT was 2 under the average. I got into AZCOM. I was then told I couldn't match into allopathic FP for residency without taking the USMLE, I matched at my #1 choice Mayo Clinic-Scottsdale. After finishing that residency I decided to apply for EM residency and was told that I had used all my Medicare funding, no programs would take me unfunded and EM is too competitive for a DO who only took the COMLEX, I matched at my #1 choice again Texas Tech.

Bottom line, don't listen to the lies and beware of some DO's (not all) who eat their young.

I agree. DO grads can most-definitely be competitive candidates without having a USMLE score. As I said, I only took the COMLEX & I definitely got interviews from MD programs (and I only applied to a handful as a backup to my DO application). That said, I think I would not have been rejected pre-interview from some programs had I taken the USMLE (either step 1 or 2).

 

[Dr.MISHKA D.O.]

I agree with DrMom, the point is not to have some magic Comlex cutoff score, but to have a score the PD can understand and compare to other candidates (i.e USMLE). Yes it is possible to match without the USMLE, but if you are confident in your Comlex then you should do fine on the USMLE (Comlex-OMT=USMLE ;Actually easier for me).
In both my interviews thus far positive comments were made about my scores, as that is all they have to look into your clinical knowledge base (unless you rotated there).
Point being it opens doors for you and PD's are impressed by silly, superficial things like these tests instead of real issues like how much you bench, how good you look in a pair of scrubs, or how fast you can wolf down a cheeseburger between seeing patients.

Just do it and quit your whining

Best wishes and good luck to all my future Emergentologists

The Mish

 

[bla_3x]

The point is not that an applicant's COMLEX score is too low, but rather that the ACGME PDs job is simpler with a straightforward way to compare applicants. Also, the NBOME doesn't release the percentiles (which are easily interpretable), but instead use a random 2-digit score that is very different from the USMLE 2-digit system.

That bites!
Isn't there something in the mix, or has already een done that is changingthe way nbome releases comlex scores to make them more interpretable by acgme PDs????? I thought I heard that at a SOMA convention a while back.
Thanks!

 

[corpsmanUP]

I agree with most of what you all are saying. But, with that said, I believe that even with the best USMLE scores, a DO degree will be a limiting factor at some EM programs. I have felt incredibly blessed and greatful to have received invites at some EM programs like Indianapolis, Mayo, UPitt, Maryland, UTSW, Emory, Christ Advocate, and Duke. But there are simply some EM programs that I believe would sooner rank an MD with subpar stats and credentials than rank a stellar DO. To me those programs are superficial and thus I am glad they are doing me the favor of not interviewing me. At least they are straightforward. There are some programs that occassionally interview DO's but never take one unless they have a bad year.

With that said, I believe Vanderbilt, Carolinas, perhaps UNM, and a few others would likely fall into the category of "give me MD or give me death". I mean I am with you Mishka, a good USMLE score (step II 262/99) will get you some very serious looks from allopathic programs, but short of being an MD, some programs just don't care. Luckily though, except for Carolinas, all the top programs are willing to interview a DO. I am not sure why Vandy thinks they are all that nestled in the middle of country music hell anyhew!!

 

[Dr.MISHKA D.O.]

Your my new hero corpsmanUP, I really have been wanting an interview at Christ and have heard nothing either way. I'll trade you UIC and Chritiana care for it, huh? how 'bout it? But yeah, I was really supprised to get interviews at UT southwest and Washinton U (wasn't sure if they were DO friendly)

Still waiting on Christ, U of C, Orlando - no news is good news I guess

Later

The Mish

 

[DrMom]

That bites!
Isn't there something in the mix, or has already een done that is changingthe way nbome releases comlex scores to make them more interpretable by acgme PDs????? I thought I heard that at a SOMA convention a while back.
Thanks!

What would be their motivation to do this? They have no compelling reason (at least in their general line of thinking) to help DO grads get into MD programs.

 

[bla_3x]

What would be their motivation to do this? They have no compelling reason (at least in their general line of thinking) to help DO grads get into MD programs.

What I got from it was; Since it is inevitable to have DO grads go acgme, knowing very well thefact that there just are not enough DO spots for the number of DO grads, they would make the scores more readable by PDs.
DISCLAIMER: I am not stating anything like fact, just what I overheard "student" delegates at a convention talking about

 

[OSUdoc08]

What I got from it was; Since it is inevitable to have DO grads go acgme, knowing very well thefact that there just are not enough DO spots for the number of DO grads, they would make the scores more readable by PDs.
DISCLAIMER: I am not stating anything like fact, just what I overheard "student" delegates at a convention talking about

The AOA does not want DO grads going to ACGME programs. They certainly would not do anything to help DO grads get into ACGME programs more easily.

 

[DrMom]

What I got from it was; Since it is inevitable to have DO grads go acgme, knowing very well thefact that there just are not enough DO spots for the number of DO grads, they would make the scores more readable by PDs.
DISCLAIMER: I am not stating anything like fact, just what I overheard "student" delegates at a convention talking about

Well, that is certainly the student opinion.

I don't know if there are further plans to change the scores, but they just changed the 2-digit scoring system recently. (I originally had a percentile score on step 1, but now they list the new 2-digit score.)


All of this said, there are people in the AOA/NBOME who are interested in helping DO grads into whatever residency they want to attend. We just need more like them. [soapbox]Once again, I encourage students/residents to become involved in SOMA, COSGP, AOA committees, etc. They have means for us to have a voice...and if we can get involved now & stay involved we can end up with a new generation of DOs who are active in the AOA & affiliated organizations.[/soapbox]

 

[bla_3x]

Well, that is certainly the student opinion.

I don't know if there are further plans to change the scores, but they just changed the 2-digit scoring system recently. (I originally had a percentile score on step 1, but now they list the new 2-digit score.)


All of this said, there are people in the AOA/NBOME who are interested in helping DO grads into whatever residency they want to attend. We just need more like them. [soapbox]Once again, I encourage students/residents to become involved in SOMA, COSGP, AOA committees, etc. They have means for us to have a voice...and if we can get involved now & stay involved we can end up with a new generation of DOs who are active in the AOA & affiliated organizations.[/soapbox]

Well, maybe they will read the "dean's letter" carefully enough to get the percentile...for whatever it would be worth.

 

[BlackCloud9978]

But there are simply some EM programs that I believe would sooner rank an MD with subpar stats and credentials than rank a stellar DO.



that really is very few.....especially when you are getting interviews from places such as pitt and emory. yeah maybe carolinas but that is one of the best in the nation...i can't even get an interview there (don't want to live in charolette besides). i have not heard from pitt, christ, christiana (that one baffles me).....i finally called emory and then they extended the interview. this after most people i've talked to have said with my grades and scores i should hear from just about everyone i apply to. of course i may not be a good example to compare from.....i haven't heard from weird ones such as buffalo. in terms of md's, i'm becoming convinced one big factor that i can't change is the region i am in.....philly.....i am becoming convinced that people assume i want to stay there. ie....getting rejected from utah before they stop accepting applications...sadly i was going to call them and express my interest also but they beat me to it. they win my wtf awad because they are a new program. so i don't know if this helps. but it is obvious to me that if you are a good canidate regardless of the title, they will interview you and then you are halfway there. plus the places you interview you can look at the other residents and see if they take do's....a sign that they are do friendly.

 

[corpsmanUP]

plus the places you interview you can look at the other residents and see if they take do's....a sign that they are do friendly.

Unfortunately you cannot use this at most places because for the shear numbers of EM programs, there are in reality only a handful of DO's who apply. So even if they rank a DO high they may never get one because of the limited number they interview. I emailed several programs about this and they told me that they have ranked many DO's high on their list but still had not matched any. So its hard to say. I think a better reference for us would be to know which programs routinely interview DO applicants, and which do not. I'll post a new thread after interview season detailing the feeling I get from each place I interviewed and whether they truly were DO friendly. I get the feeling that except for a few southern programs, that most interview DO's and probably rank them fairly.

 

[fuegorama]

Thanks for the postings/opinions/advice.
I unfortunately did not know about the Step-II-only option. I took step I of the USMLE and passed comfortably, but my score is not competitive. (at least by the stratospheric numbers put up on SDN) I don't really think it's competitive in the real world either...sub-210.
I plan on taking Step II in August. the question banks that I have completed thus far indicate I should perform a good bit better on II than I.

My question is this-
As a DO will a strong Step II "trump" a mediocre Step I, or is a marginal Step I going to kick me out of the running regardless of my Step II performance?
Thanks.

 

[EctopicFetus]

My question is this-
As a DO will a strong Step II "trump" a mediocre Step I, or is a marginal Step I going to kick me out of the running regardless of my Step II performance?
Thanks.

It totally will help and while I dont know if it would trump your Step 1 it will at the very least help balance it out. Just from the interviews offered threads you can see that a number of DOs are getting not only a good number of interviews but also interviews at impressive places. I think that EM is def one of the more DO friendly fields. This tends to be less the case in Surg and other more comp fields. the best advice take it in August, score really well. It will def help you out a lot!

 

[BMW19]

Thank you all for engaging in this discussion. Your input however has sparked additional questions for me. I know I could "just do a search" but that is not as much fun as getting real time feedback.

1) Since all DO EM programs require a 1 year osteo internship, does that mean you get accepted to a DO EM program and then do the 1 year +3 at their hospital? Or do you apply for a 1 year internship at any hospital and then apply for an EM program?

2) What do you say to the program directors when they ask you why you took Comlex 1 but USMLE step 2?

3) Does this one year DO internship deter a lot of DO applicants from applying to AOA EM residencies and can it be combined with the 3 years at any program

Thanks for all the input, bear with me as I am only a first year DO student who is heavily interested in EM

BMW-

It totally will help and while I dont know if it would trump your Step 1 it will at the very least help balance it out. Just from the interviews offered threads you can see that a number of DOs are getting not only a good number of interviews but also interviews at impressive places. I think that EM is def one of the more DO friendly fields. This tends to be less the case in Surg and other more comp fields. the best advice take it in August, score really well. It will def help you out a lot!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Thank you all for engaging in this discussion. Your input however has sparked additional questions for me. I know I could "just do a search" but that is not as much fun as getting real time feedback.

1) Since all DO EM programs require a 1 year osteo internship, does that mean you get accepted to a DO EM program and then do the 1 year +3 at their hospital? Or do you apply for a 1 year internship at any hospital and then apply for an EM program?

2) What do you say to the program directors when they ask you why you took Comlex 1 but USMLE step 2?

3) Does this one year DO internship deter a lot of DO applicants from applying to AOA EM residencies and can it be combined with the 3 years at any program

Thanks for all the input, bear with me as I am only a first year DO student who is heavily interested in EM

BMW-

Most AOA EM residencies have linked specialty emphasis internships, meaning that you are automatically in for the residency and do not need to reapply.

 

[floweree]

Thank you all for engaging in this discussion. Your input however has sparked additional questions for me. I know I could "just do a search" but that is not as much fun as getting real time feedback.

1) Since all DO EM programs require a 1 year osteo internship, does that mean you get accepted to a DO EM program and then do the 1 year +3 at their hospital? Or do you apply for a 1 year internship at any hospital and then apply for an EM program?

most DO EM programs are linked, meaning you match at said hospital for internship and residency.

2) What do you say to the program directors when they ask you why you took Comlex 1 but USMLE step 2?

you still have to take Comlex 2 & 3 to get licensed

3) Does this one year DO internship deter a lot of DO applicants from applying to AOA EM residencies and can it be combined with the 3 years at any program


for some it does, however there really are some very good DO programs and if you have your foot in the door with them then it is kind of hard to pass up. of course the extra year sucks though.

 

[floweree]

Just to throw in my two cents. I believe there are about maybe a dozen quality Osteopathic EM Residencies (not meant as inflammatory just my humble opinion.)

I would agree with this statement,10-12 quality programs, then there is a steep drop off in quality from the top DO programs to the lesser ones.

 

[fuegorama]

I would agree with this statement,10-12 quality programs, then there is a steep drop off in quality from the top DO programs to the lesser ones.

Understanding that this is an opinion, I would appreciate a look at that list.
I have found that getting real info. about DO programs is significantly more difficult than those accredited by the ACGME.

 

[fuegorama]

To piggyback on BMW's questions-
If you match at an AOA/ACGME combined residency, can you sit for both boards (ABEM and ABOEM), can you choose, or does your degree dictate your board requirement?

 

[floweree]

To piggyback on BMW's questions-
If you match at an AOA/ACGME combined residency, can you sit for both boards (ABEM and ABOEM), can you choose, or does your degree dictate your board requirement?

you can sit for both

 

[OSUdoc08]

you can sit for both

Which are the dually accredited residencies?

I'd be interested in applying to those.

 

[San_Juan_Sun]

Which are the dually accredited residencies?

I'd be interested in applying to those.

Newark Beth Israel
PCOM Albert Einstein

I think that either the ACOEP or DO-Online websites have info on which ones are dually approved. I can't remember which.

 

[floweree]

Newark Beth Israel
PCOM Albert Einstein

I think that either the ACOEP or DO-Online websites have info on which ones are dually approved. I can't remember which.

Add:

Lansing
St. Luke's in PA

 

[OSUdoc08]

Add:

Lansing
St. Luke's in PA

Anywhere else other than in New England?

(no offense)

 

[fuegorama]

Anywhere else other than in New England?

(no offense)

Since none of these are in New England...none taken!

 

[fuegorama]

Isn't Arrowhead in Cali. dual?

 

[OSUdoc08]

Since none of these are in New England...none taken!

Well Pennsylvania and New Jersey may not technically be in New England, so let's just basically say any dually accredited residencies not in the Northeast?

When a Texan says New England, they mean anything north of Maryland and east of Ohio.

 

[floweree]

Well Pennsylvania and New Jersey may not technically be in New England, so let's just basically say any dually accredited residencies not in the Northeast?

When a Texan says New England, they mean anything north of Maryland and east of Ohio.

last time i checked lansing was in michigan

 

[fuegorama]

last time i checked lansing was in michigan

Actually he means anything north of Ok, east of La., and west of NM. It gets so cold everywhere else, and there's just so many dunkin' donuts!

 

[corpsmanUP]

Well Pennsylvania and New Jersey may not technically be in New England, so let's just basically say any dually accredited residencies not in the Northeast?

When a Texan says New England, they mean anything north of Maryland and east of Ohio.

As a Texan, New England to me is anything north and east of New York State. Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey...those are not New England my friend. Have you even been to these places? They are not all that bad, and not really cold.

 

[OSUdoc08]

As a Texan, New England to me is anything north and east of New York State. Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey...those are not New England my friend. Have you even been to these places? They are not all that bad, and not really cold.

Nah, never been there. I'm a fan of the Southwest & South.

I hear people up there are pretty rude and the cost of living is very high.

Not to mention I don't like snow.

A dated a girl from Maine for about a year, and she gave me all the info about the north. She moved down here for a reason.













By the way guys, I'm saying this in jest, so no need to take offense.

 

[FlemishGiant]

Isn't Arrowhead in Cali. dual?

Nope. But for some odd reason it is listed under the saem.org website under the ACGME sxn.

 

[eadysx]

To piggyback on BMW's questions-
If you match at an AOA/ACGME combined residency, can you sit for both boards (ABEM and ABOEM), can you choose, or does your degree dictate your board requirement?

Does anyone know if you go though the AOA or ACGME version of the match to apply to the dual programs as a DO? Thanks.

E-

 

[DOnut]

Hey guys,

This is a very interesting thread. I am not sure if it is the region of the country you are applying or what, but I submitted COMLEX scores only, and I feel as if I have a faily decent list of interviews. I am couples matching with my wife and my feeling from the interviews that we have been on, and what's up coming, is that we will be fine.

It was funny. Before I read this thread, I was just telling my wife, hey...it looks like we didn't need the USMLE afterall.

My COMLEX scores are not phenominal either. Decent, but not 99th percentile. My letters of recommendation, however are stellar.

IMHO, a few well timed rotations, and some really good letters of recommendation will get you very far.

I went to the medical student symposium as part of the SAEM conference in Manhattan this year, and after speaking with many program directors, I was told that EM is a very small community. All program directors know eachother. Therefore if you get a good letter from a program director...or two, other programs will be much more likely to "see what you're all about".

Also, for those programs that you really want, but think that it will be difficult to match there, do an away rotation and bust your ass. I don't think being a DO will hinder you in any way....at least in Emergency Medicine.

Good luck to everyone this year.

DOnut

 

[DOnut]

Does anyone know if you go though the AOA or ACGME version of the match to apply to the dual programs as a DO? Thanks.

E-

To answer the above two questions. Yes, you can sit for both boards if you complete at dual accreditted (AOA/ACGME) residency.

For the second questions, it depends on the program. For example, Newark Beth Isreal requires that you go through the AOA match. Einstein in Philly wants you to go through the allo match.

 

[DrMom]

Well, I applied mostly in the SE US. Maybe that was an issue, although I did get interviews. I also only did a *trial run* app to the ACGME programs as a backup to the AOA program that I really wanted, so I didn't apply to very many places. I would have added more if I'd decided to stay in the MD match. I still think that I would have gotten a better response with a USMLE score, although that is pure conjecture.

 

[apellous]

I agree with most of what you all are saying. But, with that said, I believe that even with the best USMLE scores, a DO degree will be a limiting factor at some EM programs. I have felt incredibly blessed and greatful to have received invites at some EM programs like Indianapolis, Mayo, UPitt, Maryland, UTSW, Emory, Christ Advocate, and Duke. But there are simply some EM programs that I believe would sooner rank an MD with subpar stats and credentials than rank a stellar DO. To me those programs are superficial and thus I am glad they are doing me the favor of not interviewing me. At least they are straightforward. There are some programs that occassionally interview DO's but never take one unless they have a bad year.

With that said, I believe Vanderbilt, Carolinas, perhaps UNM, and a few others would likely fall into the category of "give me MD or give me death". I mean I am with you Mishka, a good USMLE score (step II 262/99) will get you some very serious looks from allopathic programs, but short of being an MD, some programs just don't care. Luckily though, except for Carolinas, all the top programs are willing to interview a DO. I am not sure why Vandy thinks they are all that nestled in the middle of country music hell anyhew!!

Just to let you know a DO I know matched at Vandi last march. So maybe country music has some love.