DO friendly internal medicine university programs

[Shinobiz11]

Haha. I know. I wasn't responding to you directly.

Actually you did

Btw, I'm all for getting DO's into university and top programs, I just think we put too much emphasis on match lists and names, as opposed to the applicants point of view as you mentioned. It just stems from constantly having to prove ourselves as equal to MDs.

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[user3]

how hard are the competitive IM subspecialties to obtain from a mid tier program?

 

[Banned]

how hard are the competitive IM subspecialties to obtain from a mid tier program?

This question is too broad and encompasses too many variables.

Of course getting something competitive will be harder the more unknown your program is. How hard is virtually impossible to quantify.

You need to provide known variables. What is competitive? What is mid tier? "Am I competitive for cards at UCSF coming from Imaginary University of Southeast Hawaii?"

 

[Postictal Raiden]

how hard are the competitive IM subspecialties to obtain from a mid tier program?

I don't know the answer to this but I think going to a mid tier university program from med school maybe harder than going into a competitive subspecialty from a mid tier IM residency.

There are about 6K who graduate from IM residencies every year. The number of total slots in "competitive" specialties (cards, GI, HO, Pulm/CC, and AI) is about 2500. I'm pretty sure not everyone who does IM wants to do a fellowship, let alone a fellowship in these "competitive" specialties. Besides, are there enough grads from top tier IM residencies to fill 2500 spots?

 

[SLC]

I don't know the answer to this but I think going to a mid tier university program from med school maybe harder than going into a competitive subspecialty from a mid tier IM residency.

There are about 6K who graduate from IM residencies every year. The number of total slots in "competitive" specialties (cards, GI, HO, Pulm/CC, and AI) is about 2500. I'm pretty sure not everyone who does IM wants to do a fellowship, let alone a fellowship in these "competitive" specialties. Besides, are there enough grads from top tier IM residencies to fill 2500 spots?

Not only that, but not every "top tier" grad who wants it is going to be qualified to get a fellowship in those fields.

 

[MAZ09268]

As a DO, just posting some places I had interviews at this past year..

UFlorida
Wake Forest
UMinnesota
VCU
SLU
Indiana U
UnivSoCal
Ohio State
Rush
CCF
MCW
ULouisville
UKentucky

 

[kenjixshadow]

As a DO, just posting some places I had interviews at this past year..

UFlorida
Wake Forest
UMinnesota
VCU
SLU
Indiana U
UnivSoCal
Ohio State
Rush
CCF
MCW
ULouisville
UKentucky

May we know your USMLE 1 & 2 scores?

 

[meliora27]

Loyola/GWU/Georgetown can also be added to the list of places that DO's interviewed during the 2014-2015 season.

 

[TinCup]

Hey all! I thought this thread was helpful, so I wanted to give an update of places I got interview offers. I am a D.O student and I applied mainly to allopathic residencies in the Midwest, so can't really speak too much about the programs on the coasts.

Baylor University (real one in Houston)
UT Houston
U Colorado
U Minnesota
Medical College of Wisconsin
Loyola (Chicago)
Indiana University
U Louisville
U Kentucky
U Cincinnati
Ohio State University
Beaumont (Michigan)
Georgia Regents
Wake Forest

 

[user3]

Hey all! I thought this thread was helpful, so I wanted to give an update of places I got interview offers. I am a D.O student and I applied mainly to allopathic residencies in the Midwest, so can't really speak too much about the programs on the coasts.

Baylor University (real one in Houston)
UT Houston
U Colorado
U Minnesota
Medical College of Wisconsin
Loyola (Chicago)
Indiana University
U Louisville
U Kentucky
U Cincinnati
Ohio State University
Beaumont (Michigan)
Georgia Regents
Wake Forest

Step scores?

 

[chizledfrmstone]

If possible can people please post a bracket range of what their Step scores were. ex. 210-215, 215-230, 230-245 etc.

 

[Captain DO]

what kind of comlex score would an applicant need to have to be competitive for a spot at a tier-3a or less?

 

[hallowmann]

I cared about this thread a lot more when I was thinking IM, and I might care about it again if I end up hating OB/Gyn and Peds, but either way, I appreciate what you all are doing to help out future DOs.

what kind of comlex score would an applicant need to have to be competitive for a spot at a tier-3a or less?

Most people I know have said if you have 550 or more, then you shouldn't think twice about applying ACGME IM. That said, they were assuming you'd apply to programs known to be DO friendly and mid-low tier university level. Taking the USMLE is recommended though, because a >550 is roughly what >220/225 or something, which would open more doors.

 

[deleted731525]

Serious question: How much does the prestige of your program matter if you either want to be a hospitalist or do a non competitive fellowship like ID? Will it follow you around for the rest of your career if you end up doing residency at say New York Methodist Hospital?

 

[SnowDoggy44]

what kind of comlex score would an applicant need to have to be competitive for a spot at a tier-3a or less?

I applied with only COMLEX scores 580s / 540s. I was invited to interview at Nebraska, Kansas, Creighton, SLU, Missouri, Mississippi, OU-Tulsa, KU-Wichita, and Cook County/Rush Univ PCIM, and South Dakota. I also did an elective rotation at 2 of these locations. Was only outright rejected from 1 University program (Loyola Chicago), and didn't hear back from 7 others. All University programs were in the Midwest or between the Midwest and the South.

 

[navigator]

I know it's been stated here that UTSW and BCM are DO friendly, but there are no DOs on either of their IM rosters. Since they interview DO's but don't match them, would they still be considered DO friendly?

 

[dfib slim]

I know it's been stated here that UTSW and BCM are DO friendly, but there are no DOs on either of their IM rosters. Since they interview DO's but don't match them, would they still be considered DO friendly?

There is a PGY1 at BCM from VCOM.

 

[costales]

There is a PGY1 at BCM from VCOM.

BCM also had TCOM grads in their program e.g.
http://health.usnews.com/doctors/kiran-nair-683773
https://www.doximity.com/pub/allison-heinen-do

 

[Please_Stand_By]

How much does research matter? I have a few tiny projects from undergrad and nothing in medical school. Scores are >225 step 1, >600 level 1. :/ Bottom half of class. I'm concerned since most DOs seem to have a 240ish that match into uni programs.

 

[235009]

How much does research matter? I have a few tiny projects from undergrad and nothing in medical school. Scores are >225 step 1, >600 level 1. :/ Bottom half of class. I'm concerned since most DOs seem to have a 240ish that match into uni programs.

Research is a cherry on top if you have the scores/stats. Having a 225 and bottom half of the class as a DO will make it very hard to match at any University program.


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[Please_Stand_By]

Research is a cherry on top if you have the scores/stats. Having a 225 and bottom half of the class as a DO will make it very hard to match at any University program.


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Well the 3rd year grades have been above the class average. Could that show improvement otherwise?

 

[deleted392989]

How much does research matter? I have a few tiny projects from undergrad and nothing in medical school. Scores are >225 step 1, >600 level 1. :/ Bottom half of class. I'm concerned since most DOs seem to have a 240ish that match into uni programs.

With those scores and no research, you would get some university interviews in Tier 3B and lower. I would not count on getting interviews from higher tiers because those DO students are going to have >240s/600s, some research, SSP, etc...

 

[Please_Stand_By]

With those scores and no research, you would get some university interviews in Tier 3B and lower. I would not count on getting interviews from higher tiers because those DO students are going to have >240s/600s, some research, SSP, etc...

What about most community-based university programs?

 

[deleted392989]

What about most community-based university programs?

I'm going to assume you mean university-affiliated community programs. For DO students, >500s and >220s will get you interviews to a lot of these programs, except for the top tier ones (i.e. Hopkins Bayview). Research/SSP are a plus but won't count you out at most of these places. I would recommend community programs with good fellowship matches & healthy mix of MDs/DOs like UChicago Northshore, Advocate Lutheran General, Geisinger, Metrohealth, etc...

 

[AlteredScale]

I'm going to assume you mean university-affiliated community programs. For DO students, >500s and >220s will get you interviews to a lot of these programs, except for the top tier ones (i.e. Hopkins Bayview). Research/SSP are a plus but won't count you out at most of these places. I would recommend community programs with good fellowship matches & healthy mix of MDs/DOs like UChicago Northshore, Advocate Lutheran General, Geisinger, Metrohealth, etc...

Is SSP that big of a deal to these university programs? I heard otherwise that because it's a DO-only honors group that?

What community programs would you say have a good percentage of their residents going into fellowship?

 

[DopaDO]

What community programs would you say have a good percentage of their residents going into fellowship?

I'm not a medicine resident but I am doing my prelim year at a community program. My understanding is that all fellowships are basically doable with the exception of Cards and GI. Obviously some are harder than others.

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[throwaway1939]

Mayo Clinic- Rochester
OHSU
U Colorado
Minnesota
CCF
VCU
Wake Forest
Indiana
SLU
KU
UIC
Loyola

at the behest of a DO friend, I wanted to chime in as a low tier MD applicant who had nearly everything and say that just getting an interview means nothing. I received interviews from Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Mayo (Rochester), BWH. Very reputable places. At the end of the day I matched my #7 because those places don't take low tier MD candidates and one program told me via post-match communication that "While we thought you were a great candidate, we have reservations about accepting applicants from your program."

At the end of the day, if you get an interview at these places, you're not going to be in their ranked-to-match set. You are their buffer so that they don't go unmatched in the event of a disaster. IMO, the interview doesn't even matter. My interview at the place I matched went poorly; one interviewer was late by 15 minutes (in a 20 minute interview) and the other one's faced completely went sour when he learned which school I attended and the rest of the interview was pretty much yes/no questions with little input on my end. In contrast, my interviews at several other places went extremely well with interviewers with great feedback both during the interview (explicitly got told at one place that I would receive the highest marks for the interview) and post-interview (eg ranked to match, perfect fit for our program). Ended up not matching at those programs regardless.

 

[Please_Stand_By]

at the behest of a DO friend, I wanted to chime in as a low tier MD applicant who had nearly everything and say that just getting an interview means nothing. I received interviews from Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Mayo (Rochester), BWH. Very reputable places. At the end of the day I matched my #7 because those places don't take low tier MD candidates and one program told me via post-match communication that "While we thought you were a great candidate, we have reservations about accepting applicants from your program."

At the end of the day, if you get an interview at these places, you're not going to be in their ranked-to-match set. You are their buffer so that they don't go unmatched in the event of a disaster. IMO, the interview doesn't even matter. My interview at the place I matched went poorly; one interviewer was late by 15 minutes (in a 20 minute interview) and the other one's faced completely went sour when he learned which school I attended and the rest of the interview was pretty much yes/no questions with little input on my end. In contrast, my interviews at several other places went extremely well with interviewers with great feedback both during the interview (explicitly got told at one place that I would receive the highest marks for the interview) and post-interview (eg ranked to match, perfect fit for our program). Ended up not matching at those programs regardless.

Jeez that's ridiculous! At least you matched though. Were your board scores ok? Do you think that even matters?

 

[deleted392989]

Is SSP that big of a deal to these university programs? I heard otherwise that because it's a DO-only honors group that?

What community programs would you say have a good percentage of their residents going into fellowship?

SSP is a nice bonus, but it's not going to make or break an application. Like having 2 cherries on an ice cream sundae instead of 1... lol

For the community programs, look hard at the ones that I posted earlier. You could toss Pennsylvania Hospital in that group too (they had someone match cardiology at UVA this year). I've heard great things about Lehigh Valley from my classmates too, which has plenty of in-house fellowships. Not too familiar with programs on the west coast so I can't offer any input on those.

 

[Stedari]

at the behest of a DO friend, I wanted to chime in as a low tier MD applicant who had nearly everything and say that just getting an interview means nothing. I received interviews from Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Mayo (Rochester), BWH. Very reputable places. At the end of the day I matched my #7 because those places don't take low tier MD candidates and one program told me via post-match communication that "While we thought you were a great candidate, we have reservations about accepting applicants from your program."

At the end of the day, if you get an interview at these places, you're not going to be in their ranked-to-match set. You are their buffer so that they don't go unmatched in the event of a disaster. IMO, the interview doesn't even matter. My interview at the place I matched went poorly; one interviewer was late by 15 minutes (in a 20 minute interview) and the other one's faced completely went sour when he learned which school I attended and the rest of the interview was pretty much yes/no questions with little input on my end. In contrast, my interviews at several other places went extremely well with interviewers with great feedback both during the interview (explicitly got told at one place that I would receive the highest marks for the interview) and post-interview (eg ranked to match, perfect fit for our program). Ended up not matching at those programs regardless.

Well, I matched at my #2 on that list, so I am not sure I agree with your sentiment that "just because you get an interview doesn't mean you will match." Tough to say who actually ranked me to match. I think there is more value in interpreting where you might land on their rank list by when you got the interview. If you get an interview off of the wait list or in January, that likely reflects where they will place you more than the name/perceived reputation of the program.

 

[aafisahar]

Well, I matched at my #2 on that list, so I am not sure I agree with your sentiment that "just because you get an interview doesn't mean you will match." Tough to say who actually ranked me to match. I think there is more value in interpreting where you might land on their rank list by when you got the interview. If you get an interview off of the wait list or in January, that likely reflects where they will place you more than the name/perceived reputation of the program.

that list is like from low tier (eg Wake Forest/SLU) to top tier (eg Mayo, U Colorado)....

 

[SnowDoggy44]

that list is like from low tier (eg Wake Forest/SLU) to top tier (eg Mayo, U Colorado)....

Okay, what is your point?

 

[aafisahar]

Okay, what is your point?

matching at his #2 may not mean all that much as compared to outright stating matching at Mayo or Colorado.

 

[acapnial]

that list is like from low tier (eg Wake Forest/SLU) to top tier (eg Mayo, U Colorado)....

Top tier according to who?

 

[Stedari]

Top tier according to who?

Top tier location. That's just a fact

 

[aafisahar]

Top tier according to who?

I didn't get an interview there with 240s Step 1 coming from a state school.

It's high tier enough that if any DOs matched there, this thread would be ranting and raving about it. Most rankings of IM programs put the program in the top 20-30 range, which is top tier enough for me.

 

[acapnial]

I didn't get an interview there with 240s Step 1 coming from a state school.

It's high tier enough that if any DOs matched there, this thread would be ranting and raving about it. Most rankings of IM programs put the program in the top 20-30 range, which is top tier enough for me.

The 240s step 1 and state school combination isn't a silver bullet for non-top tier programs. As someone alluded to earlier, the program's competitiveness is disproportionate to its quality since people want to live in Colorado.

If a DO matched there, I guess it would be notable since it's a very DO unfriendly program and that would suggest that its views are maybe changing, but the program itself isn't worth making a big deal about. People still would though, you're right about that.

 

[Captain Flint]

As an incoming OMS-1 in July, thanks for this thread. Was worried about matching university-affiliated IM programs to get into cards, but seems like it's very do-able if I work hard.

 

[Instatewaiter]

at the behest of a DO friend, I wanted to chime in as a low tier MD applicant who had nearly everything and say that just getting an interview means nothing. I received interviews from Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Mayo (Rochester), BWH. Very reputable places. At the end of the day I matched my #7 because those places don't take low tier MD candidates and one program told me via post-match communication that "While we thought you were a great candidate, we have reservations about accepting applicants from your program."

At the end of the day, if you get an interview at these places, you're not going to be in their ranked-to-match set. You are their buffer so that they don't go unmatched in the event of a disaster. IMO, the interview doesn't even matter. My interview at the place I matched went poorly; one interviewer was late by 15 minutes (in a 20 minute interview) and the other one's faced completely went sour when he learned which school I attended and the rest of the interview was pretty much yes/no questions with little input on my end. In contrast, my interviews at several other places went extremely well with interviewers with great feedback both during the interview (explicitly got told at one place that I would receive the highest marks for the interview) and post-interview (eg ranked to match, perfect fit for our program). Ended up not matching at those programs regardless.

It is not true that top programs don't take low tier MD candidates. Just look at the residency classes. They consist of many kids from no-name programs. Just a little google search revealed:

Hopkins: current residents from commonwealth, VCU, Drexel to name a few
MGH- Nebraska, new mexico, Jefferson, U Arizona to name a few
Duke- too many to list

They wouldn't waste an interview slot on someone unless they thought they were someone they would consider. It just isn't worth their time or effort to waste money on you when they could interview someone else. Perhaps there are other reasons that you don't realize as to why you matched at your #7.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

at the behest of a DO friend, I wanted to chime in as a low tier MD applicant who had nearly everything and say that just getting an interview means nothing. I received interviews from Hopkins, WashU, Duke, Mayo (Rochester), BWH. Very reputable places. At the end of the day I matched my #7 because those places don't take low tier MD candidates and one program told me via post-match communication that "While we thought you were a great candidate, we have reservations about accepting applicants from your program."

At the end of the day, if you get an interview at these places, you're not going to be in their ranked-to-match set. You are their buffer so that they don't go unmatched in the event of a disaster. IMO, the interview doesn't even matter. My interview at the place I matched went poorly; one interviewer was late by 15 minutes (in a 20 minute interview) and the other one's faced completely went sour when he learned which school I attended and the rest of the interview was pretty much yes/no questions with little input on my end. In contrast, my interviews at several other places went extremely well with interviewers with great feedback both during the interview (explicitly got told at one place that I would receive the highest marks for the interview) and post-interview (eg ranked to match, perfect fit for our program). Ended up not matching at those programs regardless.

Uh, not quite.

3 years ago, I received interviews from most of these programs and matched at one of them (#3 out of 17 on rank list). Post interview feedback was extremely positive from many of the other programs, with many 'ranked to match' emails.

You may need to re-evaluate your interviewing skills.

And as far as SSP, I don't think it matters much. My school didn't even have it. It was never brought up on the interview trail, and I never heard other applicants talking about it (and plenty of these people were boasting about other aspects of their apps). I question whether most ACGME PDs even know what it is.

 

[AlteredScale]

Uh, not quite.

3 years ago, I received interviews from most of these programs and matched at one of them (#3 out of 17 on rank list). Post interview feedback was extremely positive from many of the other programs, with many 'ranked to match' emails.

You may need to re-evaluate your interviewing skills.

And as far as SSP, I don't think it matters much. My school didn't even have it. It was never brought up on the interview trail, and I never heard other applicants talking about it (and plenty of these people were boasting about other aspects of their apps). I question whether most ACGME PDs even know what it is.

You interviewed at Hopkins, BWH, and Duke?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

You interviewed at Hopkins, BWH, and Duke?

Not those programs. (Note that I said 'most'.)

 

[235009]

Not those programs. (Note that I said 'most'.)

Those were 3 out of the 5 he named so it can't be ''most" anymore. Basically you interviewed at mayo (which is not nearly as competitive as the others listed).


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[gobigorgohome22]

Question about Emory.

It's listed as one of the "DO friendly" IM program but Im not seeing any DO matches in the last ~3 yrs. Anyone from here get an interview there? If so, could you please list your score ranges?

 

[AlteredScale]

Question about Emory.

It's listed as one of the "DO friendly" IM program but Im not seeing any DO matches in the last ~3 yrs. Anyone from here get an interview there? If so, could you please list your score ranges?

cant remember exactly but i think they accepted 1 before. Now it doesnt look like they accept any even for TRIs. I wouldnt consider it DO friendly.


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[dfib slim]

Question about Emory.

It's listed as one of the "DO friendly" IM program but Im not seeing any DO matches in the last ~3 yrs. Anyone from here get an interview there? If so, could you please list your score ranges?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/official-2016-im-match-results.1188438/#post-17545910

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Not a bad list. But, as a DO who just matched into one of these programs and interviewed at a lot of them, I'll throw in my two cents.

Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, Brown, UVa, Wake Forest, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Georgetown, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, Loyola, UMDNJ-Newark, UCDavis, MCW, Penn State, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, UMass, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, Louisville, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Nebraska, Creighton, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda,

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS

In the end, you'll be fine if you match at any of these programs (and many other university programs) if that's where you want to be.

FSU is a brand new IM program and didn't take DOs when I last looked; maybe their policy has changed, but it's almost entirely FMGs anyways. UCF hasn't even started their IM residency yet.

Other university programs that take DOs, but don't fit into any tier: South Dakota, South Alabama, Western Michigan, VT-Carilion, Mercer, ETSU

How competitive is it at Tier 3a and down for a DO?

 

[dfib slim]

How competitive is it at Tier 3a and down for a DO?

Prob something like >220-230 step 1 for starters.

 

[fouryearslong]

Prob something like >220-230 step 1 for starters.

what about just comlex

 

[ToKingdomCome]

Prob something like >220-230 step 1 for starters.

What about good community IM programs like UC Northshore?