do i have a chance?--need help

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To anyone, if you have any way to connect me to a program or know of some connections I can talk to I would really appreciate it....you can PM me.
I'm going to be applying for the match...
 
I have tried IM, surgery, and only a few fp. maybe if i tried more fp and others i could make it. fp is more forgiving. i haven't really given it a full shot.

5 years post-med school, FMG, leaving internship mid-year, not matching over last 4 years, it is finally dawning on you that you need to apply to more FP programs? 🙄

You have more problems than just finding another residency. Acquiring some common sense would be a good start.
 
5 years post-med school, FMG, leaving internship mid-year, not matching over last 4 years, it is finally dawning on you that you need to apply to more FP programs? 🙄

You have more problems than just finding another residency. Acquiring some common sense would be a good start.

Look here, medical student...lay off. Have some common sense to talk to your collegues in a better manner before some blunt incisors bite you in the gluteals.
 
Look here, medical student...lay off. Have some common sense to talk to your collegues in a better manner before some blunt incisors bite you in the gluteals.

And in a few years, you can call me Attending Taurus. :laugh:

Even as a lowly medical student, I realize that on the wards there is a hierarchy and that you need to play nice with everyone, even though you may not like them. You don't have to like them, just act professionally with them.
 
And in a few years, you can call me Attending Taurus. :laugh:

Even as a lowly medical student, I realize that on the wards there is a hierarchy and that you need to play nice with everyone, even though you may not like them. You don't have to like them, just act professionally with them.

Look who's talking! I know about the heirarchy, so why aren't you following it. I'm done with med school buddy--you're still there!! so act professional! by the way those years between med school and being an attending.....wow......some tough years ahead!
 
Look who's talking! I know about the heirarchy, so why aren't you following it. I'm done with med school buddy--you're still there!! so act professional! by the way those years between med school and being an attending.....wow......some tough years ahead!

I don't think you are in any position to try to shame anybody.

Reread what people have posted and learn from them. That's the benefit of an anonymous message board. You can eat your humble pie in peace.
 
Look who's talking! I know about the heirarchy, so why aren't you following it. I'm done with med school buddy--you're still there!! so act professional!
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you really have not come across too well in the posts to this thread.
 
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you really have not come across too well in the posts to this thread.

How am i SUPPOSED to come across?? kneel down and kiss the ground of a medical student no matter how rude he acts toward me?

I would like to avoid him after dealing with his comments in his past posts.

I'm sick of all his insults.

more people "out to get me"....
 
it's always the resident's fault huh? even if someone else, like a med student or nurse instigates it!
what a crazy system........
 
True. you are right. Rude people are everywhere. Sometimes you just don't know what they want to hear, but I guess I can learn to deal with them, learn what to say when, and learn when to say nothing at all.

Look who's talking! I know about the heirarchy, so why aren't you following it. I'm done with med school buddy--you're still there!! so act professional! by the way those years between med school and being an attending.....wow......some tough years ahead!

im starting to hate med students now///they're just like nurses 👎
they think they can say anything...

it's always the resident's fault huh? even if the med student or nurse instigates it!
what a crazy system this is!

yeah im going to get all med students against me now, but at this point i have so many on my back i dont care anymore what they think of me and my posts.

I thought we were making progress 😎...one thing to think about, don't make huge sweeping generalizations. You had some issues with some nurses but you've now expanded to say that ALL nurses are like that. You've got some issues with A med student (who has valid points even if his delivery is sometimes lacking, btw) and so now ALL med students are bad.

Also, you seem to be really into position and heirarchy. Just because you've graduated med school doesn't mean that you are better than Taurus. Respect has to be earned, it doesn't come packaged with an MD...this is part of what I was talking about earlier about dealing with people (rude and otherwise).
 
Just a friendly reminder for everyone in this thread to please keep the discussion civil and professional. If you have an issue with a particular SDN member, please take your conversation to PMs. Thank you.
 
I thought we were making progress 😎...one thing to think about, don't make huge sweeping generalizations. You had some issues with some nurses but you've now expanded to say that ALL nurses are like that. You've got some issues with A med student (who has valid points even if his delivery is sometimes lacking, btw) and so now ALL med students are bad.

Also, you seem to be really into position and heirarchy. Just because you've graduated med school doesn't mean that you are better than Taurus. Respect has to be earned, it doesn't come packaged with an MD...this is part of what I was talking about earlier about dealing with people (rude and otherwise).

Well i went into sweeping generalizations about med students only because all of a sudden another med student was on my back..who's to say more,..i've been heavily harassed by a ton of med students online on some forums before..some of them really like to put you down just because they think they can or think they're better...im starting to see a pattern with the bashings i get from them. i could be nice and they'd still say stuff....iim human like anyone else...how much can a person take? and yes not all nurses are bad, just said that.out of frustration.

No im not into heirarchy whatsoever, but this med student was talking about how i need to learn about it, yet he was talking pretty rude to me so i was like um didn't you just talk about heirarchy to me. so that's what that was about. I'm no better than him , but at the same token he shoudln't think he's better than me and say comments like "im going to be your attending in a few years", acting like he's preparing me to bow down to him now for the future, and because im now considered a failure he can step all over me and wipe his dirt on my face, and that I'm not a doctor anymore, (even though im still trying) or using a little censored profanity talking to me like I'm the little med student and he's some big shot. Really I just think he's being childish, even if he had said some valid points, he needs to stop the uncalled for rudeness. If respect has to be earned i am not sure if he's earned his by acting that way.
 
Turquoise, you may not realize it, but you come across as remarkably defensive. You seem to blame everyone and everything else for everything that happens; I've yet to see you take responsibility for *anything*. I suspect this caused the initial problem in your residency, and it's probably why you're having trouble making connections now. If you really want things to change, you're going to have to change yourself. Therapy can help. I'd specifically look for someone who offers DBT.
 
Hey turquoise blue:

Sorry if I came down hard on you earlier. At the time, I thought you were blaming nurses and other staff at your previous hospital for the situation you are now in. I have found that frequently, whenever a poster ends up flunking out of residency or med school, or is in any other kind of trouble, they usually have a laundry list of excuses for their situation. And they tend to blame everyone but themselves for what happened. So I've probably become somewhat jaded.
At least now I can see that you acknowledge that it was only a few nurses and a few residents and attendings. But here's the thing. Rude people can be found everywhere. Not just in New York, but there are probably quite a few of them even in the midwest. I know it sucks dealing with them, but unfortunately you have to treat them professionally just like anyone else. Sometimes I would rather shoot myself than do that, but I know it has to be done, or patient care will suffer.
And please don't think that all New York hospitals are like that. I did my rotations in hospitals which were all in the New York City area, and I've met my share of both nice and rude people.
I still think, though, that any resident who ends up on probation, or in any other sort of jeopardy to his/her career, needs to look at himself/herself and take responsibility for anything on his/her part that led to the particular situation. Once s/he does, then the resident can change accordingly and hopefully become a more competent doctor. Only by taking responsibility can a resident learn and become better. Just a thought.
Anyway, its not up to me to judge whether you have a chance of getting a residency again. Keep trying. You never know. If you do land a spot, though, think about what you can do better next time so that you'll succeed.
 
Turquoise, you may not realize it, but you come across as remarkably defensive. You seem to blame everyone and everything else for everything that happens; I've yet to see you take responsibility for *anything*. I suspect this caused the initial problem in your residency, and it's probably why you're having trouble making connections now. If you really want things to change, you're going to have to change yourself. Therapy can help. I'd specifically look for someone who offers DBT.

My one question is...why is it only nothing but me to blame all the time? So the med student who was rude to me has nothing to be blamed for?
I am defensive because why is all blame on me and not on everyone involved, especially the ones that try to instigate with a rude uncalledfor remark?

When it's like that, where you're the only one to blame ALL the time, that is what you call conspiracy..and that is not me being paranoid, that is real. Otherwise people won't care and let me say what I want or blame others besides me once in a while. why are people defending those that were rude toward me? and allow for that and then say it's my fault in the end because I said something back to that rude person so they would stop bothering me? Especially if it is on a forum--this isn't residency and not real life--everyone else has the right to defend themselves but me when being attacked?

If i would have initiated a fight, that of course it is my fault, but never anyone elses..

That's what I dont understand--why is it always me? I just say go figure, because it will always be my fault no matter what, even on a forum where i was attacked by a guy who had really rude things to say.

I'm sure i'll get "you're posts don't make you look good" well neither do the rude people on this forum who had nothing but putdowns to say to me. and no one says anything to them. Fair? i think not.

I have to take a stand on that. i'm not going to take that lying down and let people walk all over me like that. if it is residency, sure but this isn't residency here. this is a forum. people need to be more civil if they want to be respected.

I just want people to get over the notion that it is always my fault, because no, it's not i have the right to defend myself when I feel necessary. if i dont it's like letting peope belive the wrong thing about me, (because some have totally misunderstood what I wrote and took it out of context--why should i allow something wrongly understood be believed)...i already told all my faults in these posts...like doing an mba, or getting into conflicts with some nurses, etc. but i shoudln't be blamed for defending myself if someone wants to insult me on a form.
 
Top Gun,

I definitely do intend to change and alter my ways from before for sure, because whatever I did last time didn't seem to work. At my other nonACGME internship I did alter those ways and learned to deal with nurses better. Even if they hated me, especially in the ICU, I'd make sure to be nice to them because my patients' lives were on the line and everything counted on us to at least having a professional relationship. I think that taught me a lot since my past program. Hopefully what happened at my first program will never happen again. Back then, I didn't know the system and what it could do to me, and now I finally understand that I need to lay low and stay out of the radar, and study on my own, not ask too many questions, for the most part to get through.
 
Top Gun,

I definitely do intend to change and alter my ways from before for sure, because whatever I did last time didn't seem to work. At my other nonACGME internship I did alter those ways and learned to deal with nurses better. Even if they hated me, especially in the ICU, I'd make sure to be nice to them because my patients' lives were on the line and everything counted on us to at least having a professional relationship. I think that taught me a lot since my past program. Hopefully what happened at my first program will never happen again. Back then, I didn't know the system and what it could do to me, and now I finally understand that I need to lay low and stay out of the radar, and study on my own, not ask too many questions, for the most part to get through.

I've been reading along these past few days and I have to say that you do come across as somewhat immature and incredibly defensive. Although I'm sure that there were some extenuating circumstances that resulted in you feeling like you were being persecuted (for lack of a better word), a lot of your action/reactions to the situation simply weren't approrpiate. As others have noted, you need to learn how to play the game-- not just of medicine (this is just coming from a med student) but of life (this is coming from a person who has lived for a little while). Life isn't fair, and **** tends to flow in the direction of gravity, with interns and students being near the bottom. The question is what are you going to do about it. You have to pick and choose your battles. You need to learn to get along with people and realize that it may not always be them; sometimes the problem is with you.

I think that if you want any chance in a career in medicine you're going to have to come to the realization that you had some serious shortcomings as a physician in your intern year. From what you've said, they definitely know you have some red flags because no one will give you a positive letter of recommendation-- at best everything seems lukewarm. Some time has elapsed, and you have to convince program directors that you have matured since that time and learned. Apply broadly and early, and pray for the best.

Your career in medicine might be over, but it's not going to be the end of the world. As Taurus pointed out, it doesn't look good and you haven't matched for multiple rounds, so maybe you should start thinking about something else and get on with your life. There is more to life than must medicine.
 
Especially if it is on a forum--this isn't residency and not real life--everyone else has the right to defend themselves but me when being attacked?

I just say go figure, because it will always be my fault no matter what, even on a forum where i was attacked by a guy who had really rude things to say.

people on this forum who had nothing but putdowns to say to me.

this is a forum. people need to be more civil if they want to be respected.

I don't understand at all what you are saying anymore. Do you want us to feel sorry for you? I think you do need to seek counciling, which could help you to better relate to people. The good thing about this forum is that you get the real reaction people have to your comments, i.e. disbelief, non-understand and disgust. I won't read this thread anymore.
 
I don't understand at all what you are saying anymore. Do you want us to feel sorry for you? I think you do need to seek counciling, which could help you to better relate to people. The good thing about this forum is that you get the real reaction people have to your comments, i.e. disbelief, non-understand and disgust. I won't read this thread anymore.

You know something, darth, i think you have problems yourself talking to people, its not just me. the way you talk a lot of times is pretty rude, otherwise i'd have no problems with you. i don't need counceling to talk to people--i talk to them just fine, just maybe not to you and certain others who do have problems. stop blaming everyone else for problems you create! blame yourself for once!
Don't read this thread. All the better.
 
To the OP:

I promise you that SDN did not hold a secret convention where we all agreed to come after you. Having said that, if you carefully read the responses, you will notice a trend in peoples' responses to you:

1. You come across as finding excuses for everything instead of accepting responsibility.

2. Your instinct is to attack and defend instead of examine the issues that others may bring forth (regardless of the tone in which things are brought up)

3. You exhibit a skill at igniting rather than defusing situations.

4. You lack an understanding of how your actions have consequences (even a medical student knows that a marginal candidate does not walk away from an internship if s/he expects to have a career in medicine).

I would suggest working on some of these challenges you have if there is to be any hope for your professional career.
 
To the OP:

I promise you that SDN did not hold a secret convention where we all agreed to come after you. Having said that, if you carefully read the responses, you will notice a trend in peoples' responses to you:

1. You come across as finding excuses for everything instead of accepting responsibility.

2. Your instinct is to attack and defend instead of examine the issues that others may bring forth (regardless of the tone in which things are brought up)

3. You exhibit a skill at igniting rather than defusing situations.

4. You lack an understanding of how your actions have consequences (even a medical student knows that a marginal candidate does not walk away from an internship if s/he expects to have a career in medicine).

I would suggest working on some of these challenges you have if there is to be any hope for your professional career.

Basically you want this?
So if somone is really rude to me, you want me to be like :hardy:?
Punches me up some more and still :hardy: (with a broken tooth)?
Some more :hardy: (no teeth left)...
hey there :hardy:! *punch* owww...thanks so much you're the best!:hardy::hardy::hardy: do it to me again! :hardy: wow that wasn't hard enough try once more :hardy:!! you're welcome anytime! please come again soon!😍
 
Basically you want this?
So if somone is really rude to me, you want me to be like :hardy:?
Punches me up some more and still :hardy: (with a broken tooth)?
Some more :hardy: (no teeth left)...
hey there :hardy:! *punch* owww...thanks so much you're the best!:hardy::hardy::hardy: do it to me again! :hardy: wow that wasn't hard enough try once more :hardy:!! you're welcome anytime! please come again soon!😍

OK... let me respond this way. How has your strategy worked for you so far? You may FEEL right.. but you have:

1. failed to finish an internship (that others were able to finish) due to personality conflicts

2. failed to secure another position as a result

3. continued to feel victimized, singled out and attacked

At what point do you reflect on your actions and see that you may have brought some of this on yourself, and also have the power to make positive change?
 
Basically you want this?
So if somone is really rude to me, you want me to be like :hardy:?
Punches me up some more and still :hardy: (with a broken tooth)?
Some more :hardy: (no teeth left)...
hey there :hardy:! *punch* owww...thanks so much you're the best!:hardy::hardy::hardy: do it to me again! :hardy: wow that wasn't hard enough try once more :hardy:!! you're welcome anytime! please come again soon!😍

I thought you were finally getting it (sigh). You have to learn to get along with everyone, even rude people. Not just in medicine, but in life. With a defensive attitude, you're not going to succeed. You are still coming across as defensive and sarcastic in your posts.
 
OK... let me respond this way. How has your strategy worked for you so far? You may FEEL right.. but you have:

1. failed to finish an internship (that others were able to finish) due to personality conflicts

2. failed to secure another position as a result

3. continued to feel victimized, singled out and attacked

At what point do you reflect on your actions and see that you may have brought some of this on yourself, and also have the power to make positive change?

I know i broght on some of it but only after someone instigated/attacked me. I thought it's okay to say something back, since it's a free country anyways. But I realized they try to report you for it, which is ridiculous if they are the one instigating it and don't hear what they want to hear. The instigators never feel blame, they only want to blame anyone that reacts to their instigation. I learned to just not say anything in real life, but this is a forum...no one is my boss here, its not my workplace, and if im harassed rudely on a forum well, isn't that against the rules of these sorts of forums--i just think that people need to talk more politely and don't be derogatory, make it positive. I have a qualm about that I guess when it comes to forums. In real life situations, I don't say anything usually just try to keep it neutral. I'm actually a pretty quiet type of person. If someone wants to argue with me I'll be like mmhmm. and that's it. but on here its different because i'm exposing a lot of my stuff to everyone and they keep asking questions...i don't usually even tell this much info in real life.

Sure I feel I have the power to make positive change for next time. Im studying for step 3, so knowledgewise I'll be fully prepared, and I'm pretty nice to people in general in real life, and try to avoid bad apples as much as I can, try to stay under the radar, lay low, etc. I've changed a lot since 2004. I've been through research, and another nonACGME internship, so I'm sure I've changed a lot since then. I'm a lot more confident in my management of patients than back then too, since I've come to learn a lot over the years. Now you throw me into a ward I know what to do, back then it was a new overwhelming experience.

I would also like to bring about world peace 😉 jk..if i could i would.
 
I thought you were finally getting it (sigh). You have to learn to get along with everyone, even rude people. Not just in medicine, but in life. With a defensive attitude, you're not going to succeed. You are still coming across as defensive and sarcastic in your posts.

man ur so serious.
isn't that how you get along w/ rude ppl?
if you know the secret, why don't you tell me how you handle rude people?
I would like "how to handle rude people 101" please.
 
man ur so serious.
isn't that how you get along w/ rude ppl?
if you know the secret, why don't you tell me how you handle rude people?
I would like "how to handle rude people 101" please.

Well, first of all, floptomist wasn't trying to be rude to you. S/he was giving you some much needed constructive criticism. Your response to his post was very defensive and sarcastic, and it didn't have to be. Second, why do you even care if a few posters on this forum are rude or not? Its an anonymous internet forum. Its not like you're going to meet any of them in real life. So don't take everything so personally. Besides, even if their delivery isn't exactly smooth, some of what they have to say might be worth listening to. As for rude people in the hospital, haven't you ever heard of letting what they say roll off your back? If you try to be the bigger person, and behave professionally, it is possible that such people may show you the same courtesy. Not always, but it can happen. If you are going to change, you can drop the attitude for starters, and start paying attention to what the other posters have to say.
 
Basically you want this?
So if somone is really rude to me, you want me to be like :hardy:?
Punches me up some more and still :hardy: (with a broken tooth)?
Some more :hardy: (no teeth left)...
hey there :hardy:! *punch* owww...thanks so much you're the best!:hardy::hardy::hardy: do it to me again! :hardy: wow that wasn't hard enough try once more :hardy:!! you're welcome anytime! please come again soon!😍
Finally, some insight. tqb, I was about to recap the facts and situation but I see that floppy has already done this.

This is, essentially what you must do, not only in residency, but in any social interaction.

There is a time to make a stand, and a time to go meekly about your business. It appears to me, and this is only my opinion, that you have demonstrated a singular lack of insight into this. Part of this may not be your fault, but at your age, you might have seen this a time or two and seen the results of this along your path. You are obviously very bright, but need to understand that, regardless of the forum, virtual, pub or hospital, people are observing and interpreting. I cannot disagree with all those who have observed your writings.

We all lack insight from time to time, and it can occasionally get one into serious trouble. On of the better ways to learn ones blind spots is to seek the counsel of others, which you have done by turning to this forum. Yet, when others observe and comment on what they see as problematic, your pattern appears to be to nitpick the format/tone of the message and ignore the meat. This does not serve you well in your quest for insight into solving your present dilemma.

Let me give an analogy, poor though it may be. If you are driving in heavy traffic on the LI Expressway maintaining a good safe distance and another car darts in front of you, do you ram him from behind? Probably not. Extend your finger and shout obscenities? Possibly, but what good does that do? Get you shot? Make you feel good? Let it roll off, man and get to your destination unscathed. Proving you are right gets you nowhere and will not change anyone's behavior and will be harmful to you. Let it go.

Likewise with interpersonal actions. In the movie A River Runs through it, there is a line, "The world is full of ------, the number increasing the further you get from Missoula Montana." Might be true, but when you're surrounded by them, you can become like them or not. The choice is yours, not theirs. You cannot change their behavior, and if they have any clout, you do have to do exactly what you said, until you reach your goal and can escape.

Yes you have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to be belligerant and bellicose, but not everywhere. You even have the right to chastise a medical student who delivers a message in a format you don't particularly like. But beating a med student is roughly akin to beating puppies. It is not something nice people do. You have the right to knock the snot out of anyone who gets in your way, in some parts of the world. But should you? This is where insight and judgement come to play. Coupled with rights comes judgement. You have the right to keep your wallet, but judgement says you should give it to the mugger who has the pistol pointed at your heart as you stroll alone down E. 116th St at midnight.

Common sense says you do not become flippant with an attending. Common sense says that everyone has something to contribute in any endeavor. Common sense says that one is not always right or blameless. Common sense says when we screw up, we go, hat in hand, and admit it, ask for forgiveness and then move on, trying to do better, which you implied that you have to some extent. Let us hope it is not too little too late, but that is also a possibility you must consider.

You've come to this board for insight and advice. You have received it. You have criticized the format of the message, the content of the message, given us enormous detail and we have individually come to some conclusions, which are remarkable similar, yet each from our own background and knowledge, independently of each other.

Every one of us has blind spots. When those blind spots interfere with our aspirations and we do not see them, we seek the counsel of others. Occasionally, we need to seek the counsel of professionals who can help us gain insight into those blind spots, guide us to remove them or work around them.
 
Finally, some insight. tqb, I was about to recap the facts and situation but I see that floppy has already done this.

This is, essentially what you must do, not only in residency, but in any social interaction.

A couple of points, Shakespeare, a far better write than I will ever be once said, "Brevity is the soul of wit."
--Learn this. Learn it quickly. In this forum we have learned much about you and your outlook and personality. Perhaps too much.

Next, there is a time to make a stand, and a time to go meekly about your business. It appears to me, and this is only my opinion, that you have demonstrated a singular lack of insight into this. Part of this may not be your fault, but at your age, you might have seen this a time or two and seen the results of this along your path. You are obviously very bright, but need to understand that, regardless of the forum, virtual, pub or hospital, people are observing and interpreting. I cannot disagree with all those who have observed your writings.

We all lack insight from time to time, and it can occasionally get one into serious trouble. On of the better ways to learn ones blind spots is to seek the counsel of others, which you have done by turning to this forum. Yet, when others observe and comment on what they see as problematic, your pattern appears to be to nitpick the format/tone of the message and ignore the meat. This does not serve you well in your quest for insight into solving your present dilemma.

Let me give an analogy, poor though it may be. If you are driving in heavy traffic on the LI Expressway maintaining a good safe distance and another car darts in front of you, do you ram him from behind? Probably not. Extend your finger and shout obscenities? Possibly, but what good does that do? Get you shot? Make you feel good? Let it roll off, man and get to your destination unscathed. Proving you are right gets you nowhere and will not change anyone's behavior and will be harmful to you. Let it go.

Likewise with interpersonal actions. In the movie A River Runs through it, there is a line, "The world is full of ------, the number increasing the further you get from Missoula Montana." Might be true, but when you're surrounded by them, you can become like them or not. The choice is yours, not theirs. You cannot change their behavior, and if they have any clout, you do have to do exactly what you said, until you reach your goal and can escape.

Yes you have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to be belligerant and bellicose, but not everywhere. You even have the right to chastise a medical student who delivers a message in a format you don't particularly like. But beating a med student is roughly akin to beating puppies. It is not something nice people do. You have the right to knock the snot out of anyone who gets in your way, in some parts of the world. But should you? This is where insight and judgement come to play. Coupled with rights comes judgement. You have the right to keep your wallet, but judgement says you should give it to the mugger who has the pistol pointed at your heart as you stroll alone down E. 116th St at midnight.

Common sense says you do not become flippant with an attending. Common sense says that everyone has something to contribute in any endeavor. Common sense says that one is not always right or blameless. Common sense says when we screw up, we go, hat in hand, and admit it, ask for forgiveness and then move on, trying to do better, which you implied that you have to some extent. Let us hope it is not too little too late, but that is also a possibility you must consider.

You've come to this board for insight and advice. You have received it. You have criticized the format of the message, the content of the message, given us enormous detail and we have individually come to some conclusions, which are remarkable similar, yet each from our own background and knowledge, independently of each other.

Every one of us has blind spots. When those blind spots interfere with our aspirations and we do not see them, we seek the counsel of others. Occasionally, we need to seek the counsel of professionals who can help us gain insight into those blind spots, guide us to remove them or work around them.

Well said. This is excellent advice to follow. I agree with this. Instead of retaliating, even when someone says something that you consider to be rude, think about what they're really trying to say. Remember, the tone, rude or not, is only a thin veneer.
 
Well, first of all, floptomist wasn't trying to be rude to you. S/he was giving you some much needed constructive criticism. Your response to his post was very defensive and sarcastic, and it didn't have to be. Second, why do you even care if a few posters on this forum are rude or not? Its an anonymous internet forum. Its not like you're going to meet any of them in real life. So don't take everything so personally. Besides, even if their delivery isn't exactly smooth, some of what they have to say might be worth listening to. As for rude people in the hospital, haven't you ever heard of letting what they say roll off your back? If you try to be the bigger person, and behave professionally, it is possible that such people may show you the same courtesy. Not always, but it can happen. If you are going to change, you can drop the attitude for starters, and start paying attention to what the other posters have to say.

not to sound defensive or anything, but on the same token why do you care if i sound rude back to these rude posters, its just a forum! and why do you judge me on being sarcastic or this or that...when no one else is?
just had to ask you that. i mean it goes both ways if they can do it so can i. im not in a program right now, im on a forum. people are saying what they want, so I should be entitled to say what i want too without being criticized. i mean think about it. i know you wouldn't agree ecause im supposed to bre the one sitting there taking medicine but seriously, cant i even say anything at all? what kind of world would it be if I couldn't say my opinion about things too? i repeat--this is a forum--not residency. not to sound rude but that's how i feel. what do you care how i act if i shouldn't care how others act? don't answer that i just want you to think about it.
thanks for your advice and all but on this one i kind of beg to differ.
you judge how i act but no one judges how anyone else acts. same story at my program why am i the stupid target all the stupid time. accept my rudeness and move on. like you expect me to accept rudeness.
 
you are absolutely entitled to act however you like, rude or not, on this forum. the reason you might be judged more than others on this particular forum is because you posted the original query, and because you are putting yourself out there by asking people to help you find a position.

if you look at other threads, you will find that other people all over SDN are also judged by what they write, and whether they come off as nice or rude, and it is not just you being ganged up on as you seem to think. again, the focus here is on you because it is your thread, and people seem to be quite frustrated that you have received the same comments several times and still seem convinced that people are only saying these things to be mean. in their own ways, even if the tone isn't always right on, each poster here is just trying to help. nobody here gains anything by putting you down, but we have read enough to see that there are some clear patterns in your story that suggest you might have some hand in your own fate here.
 
not to sound defensive or anything, but on the same token why do you care if i sound rude back to these rude posters, its just a forum! and why do you judge me on being sarcastic or this or that...when no one else is?
just had to ask you that. i mean it goes both ways if they can do it so can i. im not in a program right now, im on a forum. people are saying what they want, so I should be entitled to say what i want too without being criticized. i mean think about it. i know you wouldn't agree ecause im supposed to bre the one sitting there taking medicine but seriously, cant i even say anything at all? what kind of world would it be if I couldn't say my opinion about things too? i repeat--this is a forum--not residency. not to sound rude but that's how i feel. what do you care how i act if i shouldn't care how others act? don't answer that i just want you to think about it.
thanks for your advice and all but on this one i kind of beg to differ.
you judge how i act but no one judges how anyone else acts. same story at my program why am i the stupid target all the stupid time. accept my rudeness and move on. like you expect me to accept rudeness.

Because you're the one who came here for advice. You're the one who found herself in trouble during internship, then quit, then tried unsuccessfully for four years to get into another one, and then, when you discovered you were unsuccessful, you came to this forum to get advice. And when people offered it to you, you got angry because you didn't like the tone of their posts. What we're trying to get you to do is to ignore the tone of their posts, and look for the valuable advice within. Despite the seemingly harsh and judgmental tone of some posts, some of what they have to say is valid.
You might gain some insight if you forget about the tone, and concentrate on the actual advice.
 
And in a few years, you can call me Attending Taurus. :laugh:

Even as a lowly medical student, I realize that on the wards there is a hierarchy and that you need to play nice with everyone, even though you may not like them. You don't have to like them, just act professionally with them.


LOL... I like it!!

And, medical student or not, he's right.
 
I never said that everyone was against me..im saying that some residents, particularly the seniors i got stuck with, which were about 3-4 and some nurses (not all of them--i would say about 3-4 of them), 1-2 attendingas who was really rude toward me just for asking a question, (one of them was like "you're a doctor?", and she kept saying that...how rude is that just for me politely asking a simple question on whether the patient should get vanco--i had to ask her permission for vanco as she was the ID attending) People were just rude and cranky--what else can I say. I told her "OK fine I'm not a good doctor" telling her waht she wants to hear, so she'll stop saying that to me and not discuss the patient at hand, and for that she reports me.

Once again, I have to wonder if I am misunderstanding this statement or if you really lack the knowledge and skills about getting along in the medical world.

While its hard to say whether the attending in question meant to be rude, I can certainly see if you were continuing to ask questions that you are expected to know the answer to, that it would be frustrating and any response would sound rude (BTW, do you *really* have to have ID permission to order Vanco? Can't say I've heard of that.)

However, even if was rude, you simply cannot respond to an attending in that fashion. Its hard to do even as a Chief resident, let alone as an intern. It sounds petulant and passive aggressive to me. Learning to play the game is important, whether its in medicine or any other workplace. Someone criticizes you and you will earn a lot more points by simply responding, "I'm sorry, I know I should know the answer, but I'm having some trouble understanding X and was hoping you could help. Thank you for your time."

And I don't even know why that report counts when she started it.

Because she is the attending consultant and you are the intern. This is not about who "started it" but rather understanding the medical hierarchy. In addition, you would be well advised to try and understand why people react that way to you. It may not have been "everyone" who was against you, but you've listed a fair number of people, certainly more than most people would have trouble with.

i think it probably was one of those 'low on a totem pole' hospitals at that time and people were just generally unhappy..even my colleges were like 'i wish i got in elsewhere, this place is just average!" while i was just trying to muster up some positivity in myself, they loathed that I had a good attitude, because theirs wasn't.

Perhaps. But it was where you ranked and where you matched. Whether or not others are unhappy is really none of your concern and if they hate you for your Pollyanna-ish ways, then so be it. That said, there has to be more to it than that, because unless you were pathologically happy about your situation, most people respond positively to others with good attitudes.

the decor was so dark, dank and 70's..they don't even have carpeting...or anything to make it look like a happy atmosphere..not that it matters much but it does make a difference...where im from they decorate the place with pinks and seagreens, carpet, cushy sofas, some windows for light, nice colors everywhere, not this dank dungeony looking style, no windows, where you even have no place to sit in the lobby--you just stand there...or sit on a small block of concrete....no other hospital made me feel that way.

Lovely hospital facilities are a bonus and I feel lucky to have trained in some very nice places. However, there are plenty of places around the country, especially VAs and large county hospitals that are just as you describe and the housestaff are able to learn, take care of patients and make friendships. Its hard to believe that the decor of your facility makes a *significant* difference in your training. I mean you raved about being at Hopkins to do research, but the medical school and hospital are all that great looking, IMHO. LA County Gen? One of the creepiest hospitals I've been in but great training, so the two are not mutually exclusive.

Besides, carpets breed infection and filth. I was so glad when my residency hospital took out the carpet and put in hardwood floors. Everytime I walked into some colorectal surgery patient's room, I'd wonder who had pooped and puked on the carpet. Ick...

Sounds like you came from a nice place but not every residency has the advantage of being in someplace with pink and seafoam green carpeting, couches, etc. (although that color combo sounds sort of 80s to me).

the program was more about instilling fear by threats....rather than a friendly learning atmosphere.... that's not a proper learning environment.
Now that is a statement I can get behind. Teaching by fear and humiliation does not work. I felt much more encouraged and valued in medical school than I did in residency and at times, felt like I was much more interested in medical school because of that encouragement.

Being 5 years out from your graduation date makes things terribly difficult in matching. When you couple that without great letters from your residency program and what appears to be a scattershot approach to applications, I'm not suprised you haven't matched. I would be very dubious to receive an application from someone in that position (5 years out, no stellar letter from former faculty, left a program mid-stream, applying to every specialty out there) and would find it hard to believe you were interested in *my* program and would stay.

Finally, I know people are more casual on line, but your spelling, grammar and sentence structure could use a lot of work. Are you having a native English speaker (if you are not one) or a good writer review your application and PS for errors?

I hope things work out for you because it does seem like you are trying hard to find a position.
 
I think one of the hardest things for me to learn has been working with all the dynamics of the hospital team, as well as trying to just smile and 'get along' with everyone, and I mean everyone. All these tips for being nice to mean nurses, or not reacting when someone leaves you hanging, or dumps serious problems on you or whatever - it is freakin' hard to just suck it up and not say anything. I learned pretty quickly that anything, ANYTHING I said or did could and would be taken out of context and held against me. Depending on the person or the situation.

It sounds ridiculous, but thats the way it is. I went from being a happy, friendly person to one who is quiet and very, VERY careful in what I say. Outside the hospital I am can be myself, inside I become a different person. I am detached, polite but I say only bland, almost meaningless things. I also lie, alot. Not about important clinical things, but to nurses and staff who are working on me. I lie to their faces, smile and say - thank you for pointing that out, you are so nice to do that!

Sometimes, I act like I am sort of 'slow,' and half-witted. Like I don't 'get it,' when someone is rattling my cage. We all have to do the work, and play the game. You can do it to.


This really hits home 😀
 
I think one of the hardest things for me to learn has been working with all the dynamics of the hospital team, as well as trying to just smile and 'get along' with everyone, and I mean everyone. All these tips for being nice to mean nurses, or not reacting when someone leaves you hanging, or dumps serious problems on you or whatever - it is freakin' hard to just suck it up and not say anything. I learned pretty quickly that anything, ANYTHING I said or did could and would be taken out of context and held against me. Depending on the person or the situation.

It sounds ridiculous, but thats the way it is. I went from being a happy, friendly person to one who is quiet and very, VERY careful in what I say. Outside the hospital I am can be myself, inside I become a different person. I am detached, polite but I say only bland, almost meaningless things. I also lie, alot. Not about important clinical things, but to nurses and staff who are working on me. I lie to their faces, smile and say - thank you for pointing that out, you are so nice to do that!

Sometimes, I act like I am sort of 'slow,' and half-witted. Like I don't 'get it,' when someone is rattling my cage. We all have to do the work, and play the game. You can do it to.

This really hit home 🙂
 
Winged scapula,
I hear ya.
 
one thing for sure, it reduces the overusage of vanco to prevent resistance of the bug covered.
 
one thing for sure, it reduces the overusage of vanco to prevent resistance of the bug covered.

I think the problem then becomes delayed initiation of vanc for those patients with bad Gram-(+) infections (especially those after-hours admissions).

Vanc is a common empiric antibiotic that's used for Gram-(+) coverage until sensitivities come back, especially in the ICU. I guess this could work if ID is always available for consult.
 
If you have such thin skin, how in the world did you manage to actually like and do well in surgery?
 
I think the problem then becomes delayed initiation of vanc for those patients with bad Gram-(+) infections (especially those after-hours admissions).

Vanc is a common empiric antibiotic that's used for Gram-(+) coverage until sensitivities come back, especially in the ICU. I guess this could work if ID is always available for consult.

True. Many patients' treatments have been delayed by hours due to this, which is especially not good when it comes to ICU patients. I don't see why the pharmacists couldn't be annointed the vanco police, and then defer the harder cases to ID. They seem to police other meds anyways too, or at least at a certain hospital I was at. Then ID won't have to work so hard and things would be faster.
 
If you have such thin skin, how in the world did you manage to actually like and do well in surgery?

Thick skin in surgery? They were all so nice! I loved it! Maybe it was just a nice program, and yes I was working at a PGY1 level, so i didn't have it easier.
At times it was tough...but once you get used to it it is a piece of cake.
I mean when you are in the OR, assisting on a surgery, no one can touch you!
It's kind of a field where you get to be on your own yet also a team player at times too. In general my collegues and the nurses and attendings were very nice there. I think you need an even thicker skin in IM, especially if it is at the type of hospital I was at previously. but I think I can handle it now.
 
Thick skin in surgery? They were all so nice! I loved it! Maybe it was just a nice program, and yes I was working at a PGY1 level, so i didn't have it easier.
At times it was tough...but once you get used to it it is a piece of cake.
I mean when you are in the OR, assisting on a surgery, no one can touch you!
It's kind of a field where you get to be on your own yet also a team player at times too. In general my collegues and the nurses and attendings were very nice there. I think you need an even thicker skin in IM, especially if it is at the type of hospital I was at previously. but I think I can handle it now.

I think it was the hospital you were at. Surgery, in general, is populated by huge egos, little tolerance for mistakes and lots of impatience, hence the need for the thick skin.
 
I have probably spent way too much time today catching up with this thread. I can tell you as someone who is about to start residency that this thread is very pessimistic and depressing. I just can't believe things can be this bad.

I do appreciate the advice on how to navigate the system though. I hope things are not as bad as this thread makes them seem.
 
I do appreciate the advice on how to navigate the system though. I hope things are not as bad as this thread makes them seem.

Things can be better or worse. It's all about having a positive attitude, developing a thick skin, and knowing that almost nothing that's said is personal.
 
Things can be better or worse. It's all about having a positive attitude, developing a thick skin, and knowing that almost nothing that's said is personal.

Amen 🙂
 
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