Do I still have a chance?

[Zip]

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Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I am in a real dilemma right now that happens to consist of “academic dishonesty”. I figure this is the best place to ask people for advice.
This is my story. Last quarter, winter 2006, I was charged for academic dishonesty for possession of unauthorized material on an exam. I had 3 midterms that day and there was this one formula for math that I just couldn’t remember, yeah pretty stupid. I figure I would just write the formula on a small piece of paper and recall from it during the exam. I did use the paper during the test, and a student next to me saw me and reported me to the TA. I took full responsibility for my action and even told the professor personally. He actually had a good laugh at it, and allowed my test to be graded. I ended up with a B in the class. Sadly, that TA reported me to the dean of my university, which I didn’t even know till the beginning of this quarter. My university is very strict about academic dishonesty, and I was sanctioned for 2 quarters suspension, which consist of spring summer and fall. I was fortunate enough that there will be no suspension notation on my transcript, and my sanction will stay in my disciplinary file in the dean’s office for 4 years before it is destroyed. I was also told that my disciplinary file is strictly confidential and only individuals with “legitimate educational interest” will be informed, whatever that means. I am in the process of appealing, feeling the sanction was too strict, and attending all my classes.

Now here is the problem. I actually have my dental application all finished and ready to be submitted, with LOR and all. And I recalled that there was a question on the application that asked if I was ever suspended from my college due to academic misconduct. I am sure that I will have to click yes for this and explain myself. I was wondering how badly will this affect my chances at dental school? Should I just wait 4 years before my record clears up and apply? I think that I have pretty good stats, 3.55 gpa overall, lots of EC’s, and my lowest score on DAT was a 20.
I also have the urge not to report this case on my application, since I am not officially suspended while I am appealing. What do you guys think? I know I am in a real pickle right now, and any advice or personal experience would be helpful.

 

[Comet208]

wow.. this is a very tough situation to be in. I would say that if you really wanted to be honest, you would still include that in your application even after the 4 years. But for now, since it will not show up on any of your records, you can assume that you have learned your lesson and not raise any red flags in your application by checking "NO".

 

[whiskeysour]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I am in a real dilemma right now that happens to consist of “academic dishonesty”. I figure this is the best place to ask people for advice.
This is my story. Last quarter, winter 2006, I was charged for academic dishonesty for possession of unauthorized material on an exam. I had 3 midterms that day and there was this one formula for math that I just couldn’t remember, yeah pretty stupid. I figure I would just write the formula on a small piece of paper and recall from it during the exam. I did use the paper during the test, and a student next to me saw me and reported me to the TA. I took full responsibility for my action and even told the professor personally. He actually had a good laugh at it, and allowed my test to be graded. I ended up with a B in the class. Sadly, that TA reported me to the dean of my university, which I didn’t even know till the beginning of this quarter. My university is very strict about academic dishonesty, and I was sanctioned for 2 quarters suspension, which consist of spring summer and fall. I was fortunate enough that there will be no suspension notation on my transcript, and my sanction will stay in my disciplinary file in the dean’s office for 4 years before it is destroyed. I was also told that my disciplinary file is strictly confidential and only individuals with “legitimate educational interest” will be informed, whatever that means. I am in the process of appealing, feeling the sanction was too strict, and attending all my classes.

Now here is the problem. I actually have my dental application all finished and ready to be submitted, with LOR and all. And I recalled that there was a question on the application that asked if I was ever suspended from my college due to academic misconduct. I am sure that I will have to click yes for this and explain myself. I was wondering how badly will this affect my chances at dental school? Should I just wait 4 years before my record clears up and apply? I think that I have pretty good stats, 3.55 gpa overall, lots of EC’s, and my lowest score on DAT was a 20.
I also have the urge not to report this case on my application, since I am not officially suspended while I am appealing. What do you guys think? I know I am in a real pickle right now, and any advice or personal experience would be helpful.

if you are appealing the suspension and are not "officially" suspended then I wouldn't report it. clicking that yes button for dishonesty is pretty much throwing your application in the garbage.

you have good stats, have come clean, and luckily this isn't on your transcript or else you'd be s-c-r-e-w-e-d...

just my 2 cents.

 

[howui3]

if you are appealing the suspension and are not "officially" suspended then I wouldn't report it. clicking that yes button for dishonesty is pretty much throwing your application in the garbage.

you have good stats, have come clean, and luckily this isn't on your transcript or else you'd be s-c-r-e-w-e-d...

just my 2 cents.

like many have said, if you are still in the process of this mess, and no official decision or suspension has been made, there is no need to self-incriminate. imagine if you report this issue and in a few weeks the schools accepts your appeal and the incident is dropped? you're screwed!

but, if the suspension and academic misconduct does stick, you should write a detailed explanation of the incident, what you learned from it, that you will NEVER repeat it, and beg for forgiveness. In this case, you don't want to withhold such info, if you do get the academic misconduct suspension.

good luck.

ps. Do not wait 4 years! apply now, apply again the following year if it this year does not work out. seems like you learned from your mistake. so be honest and remorseful. remember, many students cheat on exams and papers, it's just that you were caught doing it. learn from your mistakes, never do it again, and move on!

 

[mcshow2]

What you need to do is this...

Find that TA. Hunt him or her down, and Kill them. Seriously, if it was cool with the professor, who is that ta to report you? I am sure you have said that a million times and it may just be salt in the wounds at this point.

I think with your stats and everything else you will get in, even if you mark "yes" and explain yourself. The key will be getting an interview I think.

But for the time being, just check "no".

 

[SuperTrooper]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I am in a real dilemma right now that happens to consist of “academic dishonesty”. I figure this is the best place to ask people for advice.
This is my story. Last quarter, winter 2006, I was charged for academic dishonesty for possession of unauthorized material on an exam. I had 3 midterms that day and there was this one formula for math that I just couldn’t remember, yeah pretty stupid. I figure I would just write the formula on a small piece of paper and recall from it during the exam. I did use the paper during the test, and a student next to me saw me and reported me to the TA. I took full responsibility for my action and even told the professor personally. He actually had a good laugh at it, and allowed my test to be graded. I ended up with a B in the class. Sadly, that TA reported me to the dean of my university, which I didn’t even know till the beginning of this quarter. My university is very strict about academic dishonesty, and I was sanctioned for 2 quarters suspension, which consist of spring summer and fall. I was fortunate enough that there will be no suspension notation on my transcript, and my sanction will stay in my disciplinary file in the dean’s office for 4 years before it is destroyed. I was also told that my disciplinary file is strictly confidential and only individuals with “legitimate educational interest” will be informed, whatever that means. I am in the process of appealing, feeling the sanction was too strict, and attending all my classes.

Now here is the problem. I actually have my dental application all finished and ready to be submitted, with LOR and all. And I recalled that there was a question on the application that asked if I was ever suspended from my college due to academic misconduct. I am sure that I will have to click yes for this and explain myself. I was wondering how badly will this affect my chances at dental school? Should I just wait 4 years before my record clears up and apply? I think that I have pretty good stats, 3.55 gpa overall, lots of EC’s, and my lowest score on DAT was a 20.
I also have the urge not to report this case on my application, since I am not officially suspended while I am appealing. What do you guys think? I know I am in a real pickle right now, and any advice or personal experience would be helpful.

I'm not sure about the details of your situation, suspension, etc. But I really don't think you should sweat about this too much. Of all the things you could've done, this is probably one of the most minor. And i think it's good you came and took responsibility with your professor. Everybody makes mistakes, and dental school adcoms know this. Even if you do have to report this on your application, it's not gonna prevent you from getting into dental school. If it does come up, be honest and don't hide it. There are people here on SDN who have done much, much worse than this and still got into dental school.

If you want a good laugh, check out Yah-E. That douch was charged and convicted of DUI and he still got accepted to an MD oral surgery program. Take note though, he was very upfront about it when applying. Yes, a DUI isn't an academic honesty issue, but if I were an adcom I'd be a lot more concerned about a DUI than some kid who scratched a formula on a piece of paper.

Good luck! Don't sweat it!

 

[Zip]

What you need to do is this...

Find that TA. Hunt him or her down, and Kill them. Seriously, if it was cool with the professor, who is that ta to report you? I am sure you have said that a million times and it may just be salt in the wounds at this point.

I think with your stats and everything else you will get in, even if you mark "yes" and explain yourself. The key will be getting an interview I think.

But for the time being, just check "no".

lol, mcshow2.

I am not holding any grudges against that TA. It was my fault for doing something stupid.
I doubt I will be let down so easily, as having my case closed. Most likely there will some sanction, even if it is not suspension. I am just very disappointed that my application has to suffer. I have done many great things that I have included in my app, and I just fear that this one bad incident will disqualify me.

 

[Jennifer J.]

if you are appealing the suspension and are not "officially" suspended then I wouldn't report it. clicking that yes button for dishonesty is pretty much throwing your application in the garbage.

you have good stats, have come clean, and luckily this isn't on your transcript or else you'd be s-c-r-e-w-e-d...

just my 2 cents.

I agree with this guy. Don't even risk it because you want to be honest now. If you are not technically suspended then why mention it?

 

[fightingspirit]

i will join the rest of SDNers in this case and advise you strongly to click NO! honesty and straightforwardness are paramount. your case is an exception because honesty in it would not serve the common good in any way! do not let a single math formula and a jealous TA ruin your chances in becoming the person you wanna become.

 

[golfmontpoker]

Click NO bro!!! Do NOT under any circumstances click yes.... If the adcoms looks into this and find out u were cheating, what does this tell them about your character??? They might think you cheated your way through college, WHO KNOWS! Click no, dont even mention it... if somthing comes up, just explain yourself, i doubt it will though... The adcoms have thousands of applications to sift through, they arent going to run a detailed background check on you for such circumstances, this will take an unbelievable amount of resources and time. Click no....

 

[Zip]

Thanks everyone for replying.

Even if I don’t report it, there is still my disciplinary file residing in the dean’s office, which tells of my dishonesty. I do not know whether dental schools look at applicant’s disciplinary file or not, and I doubt anyone does. And how can I explain those quarters that I was absent from school, if I do get suspended. I don’t think there is anyway I can get out of this, other than being honest. I know that this will harm me from being accepted, but I believe I have to be truthful without risking further problems that could lead me into bigger trouble.

 

[wigglytooth]

like many have said, if you are still in the process of this mess, and no official decision or suspension has been made, there is no need to self-incriminate. imagine if you report this issue and in a few weeks the schools accepts your appeal and the incident is dropped? you're screwed!

but, if the suspension and academic misconduct does stick, you should write a detailed explanation of the incident, what you learned from it, that you will NEVER repeat it, and beg for forgiveness. In this case, you don't want to withhold such info, if you do get the academic misconduct suspension.

I agree with Howui3 👍

You're not officially suspended yet, so you're not really in trouble yet. Submit your app chedcked NO. If you go to one hearing and it's looking really grim, send out that letter! Have you spoken to any advisors on campus about this? That is, are you getting a committee letter and the committee knows about this?

 

[syn_apse]

if there is a note in your file by the time you hit the AADSAS submit button, you better check "yes" in the academic violation column. to cover it up would be suicide since many schools require deans to sign a form disclosing violations for pre-health applicants. you have strong numbers, so tell the truth and hope dental schools find your crib sheet story as funny as your professor did

 

[syn_apse]

I don’t think there is anyway I can get out of this, other than being honest. I know that this will harm me from being accepted, but I believe I have to be truthful without risking further problems that could lead me into bigger trouble.

exactly! if you get caught lying about it, you'll show everybody you learned nothing from your first mistake. just be honest on your application, tell them you're better for it, and then hope for the best 👍

 

[albodent]

just be careful' because dental schools are “legitimate educational interest” and if they see you lied, it will not be nice at all. you should ask a lawyer, those guys know all there is to know about situations like these, and they can consult you for free too!

 

[PickMe]

if i were you i would talk to an advisor at my school. they can tell you who can see what, its possible detriment to your application, if its necessary to include it under the current circumstances, etc. also, id wait until you can submit the application before checking yes or no...maybe they will decide on your appeal by then. best of luck and i applaud you for being so honest about the situation and taking responsibility. the other SDNers are right, many people have done much worse.

 

[burton117]

if there is a note in your file by the time you hit the AADSAS submit button, you better check "yes" in the academic violation column. to cover it up would be suicide since many schools require deans to sign a form disclosing violations for pre-health applicants. you have strong numbers, so tell the truth and hope dental schools find your crib sheet story as funny as your professor did

I agree with this.. Honesty is usually the best policy!

 

[CanesDent]

Having been in the same situation the past application cycle, I would definitely be up front and disclose this information on your AADSAS application. Unlike the OP though my problems were not academic and had more to do with some lapses of judgment as a freshman and sophomore, aka drinking as an 18 and 19 year old is apparently not only against the law, but against the rules of my school. I believe that most dental schools check your records or require that a dean or pre-health committee disclose those discipinary records, so by not disclosing this incidient, you will be causing yourself twice as much harm. Not only will you have this minor disciplinary problem, but you will also have tried to cover it up, which will not look good to dental school adcoms. Even though the punishment was pretty severe (probation for two years), I disclosed everything in my application and I had absolutely no problems getting interviews or acceptances. I was never even asked about my disciplinary record in any my interviews. Good luck with everything.

 

[Zip]

if there is a note in your file by the time you hit the AADSAS submit button, you better check "yes" in the academic violation column. to cover it up would be suicide since many schools require deans to sign a form disclosing violations for pre-health applicants. you have strong numbers, so tell the truth and hope dental schools find your crib sheet story as funny as your professor did

I am going to ask some counselors about my situation tomorrow. Just out of curiosity, what is this form that the dean needs to sign? Can't dental schools simply call my University and ask if I was ever academically disciplined?

 

[howui3]

i had a academic problem duirng my freshman year. i slacked off, had family problems and ended up with a 0.97 GPA for the spring quarter.

i was placed on academic probation and it was noted on my transcripts. i reported the entire situation to AADSAS and wrote up a small essay explaining my situation and showed them how i improved over the years.

ended up getting in to a great cali school.

so if it becomes official by the time you submit, report it and explain it.

good luck!

 

[gsJ]

this is what u do you apply and appeal at the same time, soo the cycle open in may then dont fill that part in on the aadsas.....you are fine if you appeal becuase usually it takes a while for those cases to go through and hopefully it will take longer then expected and you will b accepted before it goes through

 

[Zip]

Thanks everyone for your replies. Seeing that everyone is not "perfect" gives me much hope that I stand a chance. But has anyone ever experienced academic dishonesty? So far I read about probation and underage drinking, which seems minor compared to my situation. I would like to hear about some realated stories and how they were able to convinced dental schools that they ought to be a dentist.

 

[ias2512]

Dude, if I were you, i would def. click NO. YOu are in the process of appealing so you dont have the obligation to click YES. And your TA is one hell of a BIt@H...

 

[ltb]

Dude, if I were you, i would def. click NO. YOu are in the process of appealing so you dont have the obligation to click YES. And your TA is one hell of a BIt@H...

what's wrong with the TA? he cheated. they did the right thing.

 

[colt]

It is kind of a unspoken rule that you don't tell on people for knit-picky things. It's really just common sense---let their conscience deal with what they did. Do you call the police every time you see someone speeding on the road? Technically, you could argue that it would be the right thing to do....

 

[ltb]

It is kind of a unspoken rule that you don't tell on people for knit-picky things. It's really just common sense---let their conscience deal with what they did. Do you call the police every time you see someone speeding on the road? Technically, you could argue that it would be the right thing to do....

People know the rules their institutions set regarding academic dishonesty. Anyone who breaks those rules should be punished accordingly.

 

[syn_apse]

It is kind of a unspoken rule that you don't tell on people for knit-picky things.

i guess it depends if you think a crib sheet is a nit-picky thing or not. personally, i think it should have stopped at the professor when he laughed it off. i don't think the TA should have circumvented their boss but you can't really appeal that can you?

the OP learned their lesson and will do the right thing when applying to d-school. if they have the stats, they deserve a second chance...

 

[tinman831]

There's no question that the OP did something wrong. He has admitted it and there is no doubt that he broke the rules. A police officer can ticket you for going 1 mile over the speed limit. Breaking the rules can get you in trouble and there's no 'unspoken rule' saying that the officer is supposed to cut you some slack.

To the OP: it might not be on your record right now, but it will be pretty soon (most likely by the time you start to apply to dental schools). Selecting "no" to the section dealing with academic honesty may not get you in trouble now, but it will sooner or later. Schools won't check your record right away, and by the time your application is submitted, it'll all be on your record. You are taking such a huge gamble if you are selecting no and hoping schools won't see your record. If a school finds out that you cheated AND you lied, kiss your butt good bye. Two wrongs don't make a right and karma is a bitch. Be honest about what happened. 🙂

 

[Madeleine405]

I I were you, I would call up a school that you have no intentions of applying to,(and use a fake name if you want) and talk to someone in the admissions depatment there. Ask them what they think you shoul put, and how they would judge you if you had to check yes on the app. Best of Luck!

 

[howui3]

To the OP: it might not be on your record right now, but it will be pretty soon (most likely by the time you start to apply to dental schools). Selecting "no" to the section dealing with academic honesty may not get you in trouble now, but it will sooner or later. Schools won't check your record right away, and by the time your application is submitted, it'll all be on your record. You are taking such a huge gamble if you are selecting no and hoping schools won't see your record. If a school finds out that you cheated AND you lied, kiss your butt good bye. Two wrongs don't make a right and karma is a bitch. Be honest about what happened. 🙂

the only problems with this is what if the case gets dropped? he reported a academic dishonesty senction, but none resulted.

i still think, if the case is still in review at the time of application, click NO, since NO offical sanction/punishment has been pronounced. then, if the case does get resolved at a later time, immediatly notify ALL the schools of the situation and provide a very detailed explanation.

 

[gregMD]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post. I am in a real dilemma right now that happens to consist of “academic dishonesty”. I figure this is the best place to ask people for advice.
This is my story. Last quarter, winter 2006, I was charged for academic dishonesty for possession of unauthorized material on an exam. I had 3 midterms that day and there was this one formula for math that I just couldn’t remember, yeah pretty stupid. I figure I would just write the formula on a small piece of paper and recall from it during the exam. I did use the paper during the test, and a student next to me saw me and reported me to the TA. I took full responsibility for my action and even told the professor personally. He actually had a good laugh at it, and allowed my test to be graded. I ended up with a B in the class. Sadly, that TA reported me to the dean of my university, which I didn’t even know till the beginning of this quarter. My university is very strict about academic dishonesty, and I was sanctioned for 2 quarters suspension, which consist of spring summer and fall. I was fortunate enough that there will be no suspension notation on my transcript, and my sanction will stay in my disciplinary file in the dean’s office for 4 years before it is destroyed. I was also told that my disciplinary file is strictly confidential and only individuals with “legitimate educational interest” will be informed, whatever that means. I am in the process of appealing, feeling the sanction was too strict, and attending all my classes.

Now here is the problem. I actually have my dental application all finished and ready to be submitted, with LOR and all. And I recalled that there was a question on the application that asked if I was ever suspended from my college due to academic misconduct. I am sure that I will have to click yes for this and explain myself. I was wondering how badly will this affect my chances at dental school? Should I just wait 4 years before my record clears up and apply? I think that I have pretty good stats, 3.55 gpa overall, lots of EC’s, and my lowest score on DAT was a 20.
I also have the urge not to report this case on my application, since I am not officially suspended while I am appealing. What do you guys think? I know I am in a real pickle right now, and any advice or personal experience would be helpful.

well - you shouldn't have cheated. I dont know any professional program that would overlook something like this, and quite frankly, they shouldn't.

i have zero tolerance for people that cheat - and this kind of thing really pisses me off - i'd rather accept an applicant with stats that aren't equal to yours who did things honestly, than take somebody who cheated on an exam, no matter how small you think the infraction is.

sound harsh? good - it should. this kind of thing is absolutely deplorable.

 

[syn_apse]

well - you shouldn't have cheated. I dont know any professional program that would overlook something like this, and quite frankly, they shouldn't.

i have zero tolerance for people that cheat - and this kind of thing really pisses me off - i'd rather accept an applicant with stats that aren't equal to yours who did things honestly, than take somebody who cheated on an exam, no matter how small you think the infraction is.

sound harsh? good - it should. this kind of thing is absolutely deplorable.

you don't work at a soapbox factory do you greg?
that would be really ironic

 

[gregMD]

you don't work at a soapbox factory do you greg?
that would be really ironic

no but this kind if thing is bull$hit - and whats worse is you've got a group of people blowing smoke up this guys ass about how this isnt a big deal. when evaluating applications (i sit on the ADCOM), if i see a person has cheated and been convicted of that offense, i put them in the reject pile - simple as that. I do not want to be working with cheaters, nor do i want to award a cheater with a position in a class where you've got honest people who have worked hard to earn their seat.

it goes towards character - remorseful or not - this person decided to cheat on an exam. there are too many applicants that have been in similarly stressful situations that didnt cheat and made it through just fine.

i simply refuse to acknowledge the idea that cheating is not a big deal, and that it can be overlooked. And for the record, most of the profs and clinicians that sit on ADCOMS fee EXACTLY the same way i do.

You'd be lucky to gain acceptance to any program (MD/DDS/DVM etc) with an academic sanction (cheating) on your record.

 

[colt]

There's no question that the OP did something wrong. He has admitted it and there is no doubt that he broke the rules. A police officer can ticket you for going 1 mile over the speed limit. Breaking the rules can get you in trouble and there's no 'unspoken rule' saying that the officer is supposed to cut you some slack.

In this case, the police officer was the professor, and the professor (police officer) let it go. Thus, the situation should end. The TA was like a civilian that saw someone going 5 mph over the speed limit and felt the need to report them to the police.

 

[colt]

no but this kind if thing is bull$hit - and whats worse is you've got a group of people blowing smoke up this guys ass about how this isnt a big deal. when evaluating applications (i sit on the ADCOM), if i see a person has cheated and been convicted of that offense, i put them in the reject pile - simple as that. I do not want to be working with cheaters, nor do i want to award a cheater with a position in a class where you've got honest people who have worked hard to earn their seat.

it goes towards character - remorseful or not - this person decided to cheat on an exam. there are too many applicants that have been in similarly stressful situations that didnt cheat and made it through just fine.

i simply refuse to acknowledge the idea that cheating is not a big deal, and that it can be overlooked. And for the record, most of the profs and clinicians that sit on ADCOMS fee EXACTLY the same way i do.

You'd be lucky to gain acceptance to any program (MD/DDS/DVM etc) with an academic sanction (cheating) on your record.

In what case can cheating ever be overlooked? Can it ever be overlooked and the guilty become rehabilitated? Maybe the act should stain someone for life.

Have you ever cheated or disobeyed the speed limit? If you knowingly go 1mph+ over the speed limit than you take the lives of innocent people in your hand. It has been proven that with each mph over, the likelihood for death increases---not to mention the moral corruptness it displays. If you cannot answer "no I've never willfully sped" than you are no better than someone who cheats on a test.

 

[howui3]

i simply refuse to acknowledge the idea that cheating is not a big deal, and that it can be overlooked.

agree!

cheating is one of the worse academic offences, considering the cheater is trying to get unfair advantage and score higher then the rest of the honest students.

but the fact is that what's done is done. at this point the OP should focus on his school, his application, and learn a very valuable (and costly) lesson: CHEATING DOES NOT PAY OFF!

to gregMD: no body is blowing anything up the OP's ass. his question was what he should do now, AFTER THE FACT that he has been reported cheating. Nevertheless, you bring up important points, that cheating, no matter how small, should never be done.

 

[howui3]

duplicate post

 

[JohnUNLV]

I think you're going to have an extremely uphill battle. Academic dishonesty is like being accused of rape to school administrators, its a huge stigma that will follow you, as it should.

I am very against cheating and what you did, however if the rest of your story is true then I suggest you just kick the crap out of the DAT and get 22+ on all sections to make sure you get interviews, and show them remorse and just offer yourself up. This is America, land of the 2nd chance and if they see how sorry you are and that it was a bad mistake, they will give you a 2nd chance.

 

[JohnUNLV]

Have you ever cheated or disobeyed the speed limit? If you knowingly go 1mph+ over the speed limit than you take the lives of innocent people in your hand. It has been proven that with each mph over, the likelihood for death increases---not to mention the moral corruptness it displays. If you cannot answer "no I've never willfully sped" than you are no better than someone who cheats on a test.

First of all, the speed 'limit' is actually a set point you should TRY to drive at. Traveling under this speed is dangerous as is traveling over it.

Secondly, your point is ridiculous. Speeding a few miles over the speed limit, or even 10 miles over (which you still wont be pulled over until at least 11miles over) is the same as cheating on a university exam?

There isnt a single person in America that has NEVER gone over the speed limit. Saying that everyone in America is no better than someone who cheated and showed no character or dignity what so ever by cheating on a test is beyond ridiculous.

Cheating is a horrible stigma and that stigma should never go away.

However, if the OP is in fact telling the truth about his situation and remorse then I believe he may have actually learned a very good lesson and should be given a 2nd chance IF he can, in fact, do very well on his DAT and all other exams without cheating.

 

[Dutchboy]

Have you ever cheated or disobeyed the speed limit? If you knowingly go 1mph+ over the speed limit than you take the lives of innocent people in your hand. It has been proven that with each mph over, the likelihood for death increases---not to mention the moral corruptness it displays. If you cannot answer "no I've never willfully sped" than you are no better than someone who cheats on a test.

Speeding = Cheating? Seems like a bit of a stretch. 1mph over and you take innocent lives in your hands? But what if they are speeding also, then I guess they are no longer innocent? Moral corruptness!? That's right all you speeders, you are all going to hell! Say hello to the devil you corrupt bastards!

 

[gregMD]

In what case can cheating ever be overlooked? Can it ever be overlooked and the guilty become rehabilitated? Maybe the act should stain someone for life.

Have you ever cheated or disobeyed the speed limit? If you knowingly go 1mph+ over the speed limit than you take the lives of innocent people in your hand. It has been proven that with each mph over, the likelihood for death increases---not to mention the moral corruptness it displays. If you cannot answer "no I've never willfully sped" than you are no better than someone who cheats on a test.

The fact that you liken speeding to cheating on a university exam (or any exam for that matter) is utterly ridiculous. The two don't equate.

The two biggest academic offences you can commit are cheating on an exam, and plagiarism. Both, in my view, should lead to expulsion, and be forewarned, that if your application ever crosses my path, it will be rejected with prejudice (i've been asked to sit on both DDS and MD ADCOMMs at times). I would say that 90% of the administrators and admission committee participants in the health care field would wholeheartedly agree with me.

 

[colt]

First of all, the speed 'limit' is actually a set point you should TRY to drive at. Traveling under this speed is dangerous as is traveling over it.

Secondly, your point is ridiculous. Speeding a few miles over the speed limit, or even 10 miles over (which you still wont be pulled over until at least 11miles over) is the same as cheating on a university exam?

There isnt a single person in America that has NEVER gone over the speed limit. Saying that everyone in America is no better than someone who cheated and showed no character or dignity what so ever by cheating on a test is beyond ridiculous.

Cheating is a horrible stigma and that stigma should never go away.

However, if the OP is in fact telling the truth about his situation and remorse then I believe he may have actually learned a very good lesson and should be given a 2nd chance IF he can, in fact, do very well on his DAT and all other exams without cheating.

Oh, but now you are trying to argue "which is worse, doing this or doing that." Why do you say that you wont be pulled over untill 11 mph? Where did you hear that? I know more than 5 people who have been pulled for 5-10 over.

You claim my point is rediculous because "everyone has done it"....everyone doing it doesn't make it right. If you knowingly go 10mph over the speed limit, you are putting yourself and others in danger. What would your reason for speeding be?---oh, I had to be somewhere quick. What would be the reason for bringing a formula to class?---oh, I didn't study enough! Both cases exemplify taking the easy/quick way out. If one leaves earlier or studies more than their morals wont be compromised.

 

[ltb]

comparing cheating to speeding is ridiculous. they're nowhere near the same thing.

this guy cheated - plain and simple - and should be punished severely for it.

 

[colt]

The fact that you liken speeding to cheating on a university exam (or any exam for that matter) is utterly ridiculous. The two don't equate.

The two don't equate because one is socially acceptable and the other is not. Does this mean that the consequences (not punishment) of cheating are worse than speeding? Lets examine--if you speed, you increase the likelihood of an accident or death. If you cheat, the consequences will weigh on your conscience. In one case you can hurt others, in the other case it is only you that gets hurt.

The two biggest academic offences you can commit are cheating on an exam, and plagiarism. Both, in my view, should lead to expulsion, and be forewarned, that if your application ever crosses my path, it will be rejected with prejudice (i've been asked to sit on both DDS and MD ADCOMMs at times). I would say that 90% of the administrators and admission committee participants in the health care field would wholeheartedly agree with me.

Again, I agree that cheating is looked down upon, but the act of willfully speeding is just as bad although socially acceptable ( 1 mph was a stretch, but say 10mph+). If you knowingly choose to speed, you do the following: 1) show disregard for the law 2) disregard the safety of others 3) show lack of morals 😎

 

[colt]

comparing cheating to speeding is ridiculous. they're nowhere near the same thing.

Explain why.....

 

[Dutchboy]

Just to make it perfectly clear, if you are a jaywalker you have no morals and are going to hell!!!

 

[colt]

Just to make it perfectly clear, if you are a jaywalker or cheater you have no morals and are going to hell!!!

fixed 👍

 

[ias2512]

I I were you, I would call up a school that you have no intentions of applying to,(and use a fake name if you want) and talk to someone in the admissions depatment there. Ask them what they think you shoul put, and how they would judge you if you had to check yes on the app. Best of Luck!

I agree! YOu should def. call some dent-school and see what they would if they found out about ur situation after you gained acceptance...and gregMD i have to say that i do agree with the whole cheating thing your talking about, but i think your too harsh. this kid made a mistake and learned his lesson...why should he be expelled for that?

 

[JohnUNLV]

Explain why.....

Dude, the fact that you are actually arguing with the 4 people who immediately pointed out how ridiculous your analogy was, is laughable.

If you cant see the utterly obvious and blatently simple reasons why your argument has ZERO grounds, then we cannot help you. Common sense isn't something you can teach.

How do I "know" its 11+mph over? No one knows exactly when a cop will pull you over. However, 2 of my brothers are police officers and they both tell me that they and all their co-officers will ALMOST never pull anyone over doing 10 less. They even have a saying, "9 under and you're fine, 10 over and you're mine."

Social stigmas exist for a reason. They dont come out of no where. Certain activies are much more dangerous than others. And cheating DOES, in fact, harm others. For example, you may be harming every other student in the class by raising the mean test score, when they would have gotten a nice little boost if you hadnt scored so high. Also, if you cheat more than just once, or on a big test, you may affect your chances of getting into a certain school and thus harming every other applicant. These are all indirect effects, but nonetheless relevent.

 

[colt]

Dude, the fact that you are actually arguing with the 4 people who immediately pointed out how ridiculous your analogy was, is laughable.

Going against the herd does not make one wrong.

If you cant see the utterly obvious and blatently simple reasons why your argument has ZERO grounds, then we cannot help you. Common sense isn't something you can teach.

So if someone doesn't agree with a point that you cannot back up....they are lacking common sense? OK

How do I "know" its 11+mph over? No one knows exactly when a cop will pull you over. However, 2 of my brothers are police officers and they both tell me that they and all their co-officers will ALMOST never pull anyone over doing 10 less.

Enough said.

Social stigmas exist for a reason.

This I agree with.

Certain activies are much more dangerous than others.

I agree again. Speeding is definately more dangerous than cheating on test.

And cheating DOES, in fact, harm others. For example, you may be harming every other student in the class by raising the mean test score, when they would have gotten a nice little boost if you hadnt scored so high. Also, if you cheat more than just once, or on a big test, you may affect your chances of getting into a certain school and thus harming every other applicant.

Yes, these are consequences to cheating, but they do not disqualify the complications that can arise from speeding. Which is worse---speeding which can directly kill or cheating which can affect grades? All your arguments involve statements like "every knows" or "common sense tells you..." You have yet to address why willfully speeding is less morally wrong than cheating.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking up for cheating, but many of us get on our moral high horse when in reality we do bad things everyday.