Do lower stat allopathic schools really practice yield protection?

[LuluLovesMe]

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If so, would I be a victim of that at a school like Quinnipiac with a 3.55/37?

It's hard for me to believe since all med schools are hard to get into.

 

[Doug Underhill]

It can be especially unpredictable for applicants with uneven stats like yourself, but a cursory examination of MDapps suggests that they do. Schools like Temple and Drexel reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time.

About all I can say is a person with a 3.55/37 should get in somewhere

 

[LuluLovesMe]

It can be especially unpredictable for applicants with uneven stats like yourself, but a cursory examination of MDapps suggests that they do. Schools like Temple and Drexel reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time.

About all I can say is a person with a 3.55/37 should get in somewhere

This makes it really difficult to come up with a school list since I can't know which schools not to apply to because of yield protection. I would be happy at any of the lower stat schools.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Gyngyn said you should apply to schools with an average MCAT of 34. Use the LizzyM formula: right now you have a LizzyM score of 72, so apply to schools with a 3.8/34, I guess, or a 3.7/35. Use the 10%/90% thresholds to see if they admitted anyone with a 3.55 or a MCAT above 36.

Finally, you should apply based on the mission. Go to the schools whose missions really excite you and your enthusiasm will shine through on the application.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Gyngyn said you should apply to schools with an average MCAT of 34. Use the LizzyM formula: right now you have a LizzyM score of 72, so apply to schools with a 3.8/34, I guess, or a 3.7/35. Use the 10%/90% thresholds to see if they admitted anyone with a 3.55 or a MCAT above 36.

Finally, you should apply based on the mission. Go to the schools whose missions really excite you and your enthusiasm will shine through on the application.

Would you not recommend applying to around 10 schools that are around 3.7/32?

 

[ridethecliche]

It can be especially unpredictable for applicants with uneven stats like yourself, but a cursory examination of MDapps suggests that they do. Schools like Temple and Drexel reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time.

About all I can say is a person with a 3.55/37 should get in somewhere

No Doug, no!
(Though I agree with the gist here)

This makes it really difficult to come up with a school list since I can't know which schools not to apply to because of yield protection. I would be happy at any of the lower stat schools.

You should use MSAR to look at schools where your GPA and MCAT fall between the 10-90 percentiles and apply to those. If your EC's are good, you have a good shot at most schools. At the end of the day, it's still a crap shoot and you can get into a higher ranked school and rejected by a school below it in the rankings. Don't overthink it.

Gyngyn said you should apply to schools with an average MCAT of 34. Use the LizzyM formula: right now you have a LizzyM score of 72, so apply to schools with a 3.8/34, I guess, or a 3.7/35. Use the 10%/90% thresholds to see if they admitted anyone with a 3.55 or a MCAT above 36.

Finally, you should apply based on the mission. Go to the schools whose missions really excite you and your enthusiasm will shine through on the application.

The mission stuff is overrated at most schools. There are a few schools that are incredibly service oriented or have religious missions, other than that, they're all looking for people they think can be successful physicians.

Would you not recommend applying to around 10 schools that are around 3.7/32?

That would be a silly way to do your applications. Also, why would you want to go to Quinnipiac with your stats. I'm biased here because I didn't like the school at all, but still...

Just get MSAR... You're overthinking this like WOAH.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

No Doug, no!
(Though I agree with the gist here)



You should use MSAR to look at schools where your GPA and MCAT fall between the 10-90 percentiles and apply to those. If your EC's are good, you have a good shot at most schools. At the end of the day, it's still a crap shoot and you can get into a higher ranked school and rejected by a school below it in the rankings. Don't overthink it.



The mission stuff is overrated at most schools. There are a few schools that are incredibly service oriented or have religious missions, other than that, they're all looking for people they think can be successful physicians.



That would be a silly way to do your applications. Also, why would you want to go to Quinnipiac with your stats. I'm biased here because I didn't like the school at all, but still...

Just get MSAR... You're overthinking this like WOAH.

I feel I am on shaky ground with my 3.55 and downward trend so I would be happy with any MD acceptance.

 

[Psai]

It can be especially unpredictable for applicants with uneven stats like yourself, but a cursory examination of MDapps suggests that they do. Schools like Temple and Drexel reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time.

About all I can say is a person with a 3.55/37 should get in somewhere

All schools reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time

 

[LuluLovesMe]

All schools reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time

Am I high enough stat where I shouldn't apply to schools with 3.6-3.7/30-32 stats due to yield protection?

 

[mimelim]

I was way more asymmetric than you were. 3.4/40+ and the only school I wasn't offered an interview at was Vanderbilt. Top 10, unranked, etc. Apply broad, if your finances allow. You can always decline interviews if they are rolling in. Every school rejects 'high stats' people. After you reach a certain academic level in terms of your GPA/MCAT, the rest of your application comes into play.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

You will get interviews at the "lower" stat schools and they will ask you why you really want to go there. Come up with a good answer to that question and you won't have a problem with schools that practice "yield protection."

 

[gyngyn]

This makes it really difficult to come up with a school list since I can't know which schools not to apply to because of yield protection.
.

It's not really yield protection, it's resource management. There are only so many interviews/MMI's that can be done in a single cycle. If the school uses all its resources on people unlikely to matriculate it would be a waste of both the school's and the applicant's time.

 

[ridethecliche]

I feel I am on shaky ground with my 3.55 and downward trend so I would be happy with any MD acceptance.

Downward trend is bad unless there's a reason for it, but if you were solid in your pre-reqs you're fine...

Stop selling yourself short. You have a really good shot at an MD acceptance. I would probably apply to 20-25 schools if finances allow because that way you can apply to a wide range of schools. Apply early though!

I was way more asymmetric than you were. 3.4/40+ and the only school I wasn't offered an interview at was Vanderbilt. Top 10, unranked, etc. Apply broad, if your finances allow. You can always decline interviews if they are rolling in. Every school rejects 'high stats' people. After you reach a certain academic level in terms of your GPA/MCAT, the rest of your application comes into play.

You make more sense now. Guessing you fell into the smart but bored category in high school/college.

You will get interviews at the "lower" stat schools and they will ask you why you really want to go there. Come up with a good answer to that question and you won't have a problem with schools that practice "yield protection."

Yeah, seriously. Just have a compelling reason about the school and you'll be fine. Doing research about particular schools when writing secondaries and going to interviews is important.

For srs though, stop stressing OP.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Downward trend is bad unless there's a reason for it, but if you were solid in your pre-reqs you're fine...

Stop selling yourself short. You have a really good shot at an MD acceptance. I would probably apply to 20-25 schools if finances allow because that way you can apply to a wide range of schools. Apply early though!

What schools would be examples of the high end of the range of schools I should apply to?

 

[dellprecision]

I was way more asymmetric than you were. 3.4/40+ and the only school I wasn't offered an interview at was Vanderbilt. Top 10, unranked, etc. Apply broad, if your finances allow. You can always decline interviews if they are rolling in. Every school rejects 'high stats' people. After you reach a certain academic level in terms of your GPA/MCAT, the rest of your application comes into play.

I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's also wise to point out that your case is probably one that doesn't occur much anymore given the large increase in medical school applications, which requires additional resource management, as gyngyn said earlier.

According to the AAMC (so probably MD only), the number of applicants who applied to medical schools in 2014 is about 15,000 more than the number in 2003, and about 7000 more than the number in 2010. On the other hand, the number of matriculants to medical schools in 2014 is less than 4000 greater than that of 2003.

 

[ridethecliche]

What schools would be examples of the high end of the range of schools I should apply to?

Get. The. MSAR.

Here: http://bit.ly/1HOkVuI

 

[mimelim]

I agree with what you're saying, but I think it's also wise to point out that your case is probably one that doesn't occur much anymore given the large increase in medical school applications, which requires additional resource management, as gyngyn said earlier.

According to the AAMC (so probably MD only), the number of applicants who applied to medical schools in 2014 is about 15,000 more than the number in 2003, and about 7000 more than the number in 2010. On the other hand, the number of matriculants to medical schools in 2014 is less than 4000 greater than that of 2003.

The number of applicants has increased. The number of qualified applicants has remained constant. There aren't more, smarter people applying. For a given applicant, you aren't competing with any more people. Admissions offices are having to wade through more applicants to find the right people.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Get. The. MSAR.

Here: http://bit.ly/1HOkVuI

Well, I already have the MSAR. And I've used it so much that I probably have memorized all the stats from the 55 private med schools in the US.

The MSAR doesn't answer my question. I am asking for your opinion on high end of the range I should apply to which is a subjective cutoff, not a raw statistic.

 

[ridethecliche]

Well, I already have the MSAR. And I've used it so much that I probably have memorized all the stats from the 55 private med schools in the US.

The MSAR doesn't answer my question. I am asking for your opinion on high end of the range I should apply to which is a subjective cutoff, not a raw statistic.

Your stats aren't totally unrealistic for places like NYU, Brown (low yield), Dartmouth, UPenn, etc. The MSAR actually answers your question. I'm not sure why you're so perplexed by this.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Your stats aren't totally unrealistic for places like NYU, Brown (low yield), Dartmouth, UPenn, etc. The MSAR actually answers your question. I'm not sure why you're so perplexed by this.

I didn't know if it would be worth applying to schools where my MCAT sits just under their 90% but my GPA is just over their 10%. This is true for Brown and Dartmouth.

For UPenn and NYU, my GPA is actually UNDER their 10% and my MCAT is just over their 50%. So I wasn't sure how my stats had to be in relation to the school's stats for it to be a possible reach.

Pretty sure I don't have a chance at UPenn or NYU

 

[DokterMom]

Your MCAT is excellent. Grades are OK. How are your ECs? Research? Kinda average? Exceptional? In between?

And what's your undergrad school like? It is highly selective and a known grade deflator? (ex. Princeton?) Allowances will be made... Or kinda average with no known deflation?

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Your MCAT is excellent. Grades are OK. How are your ECs? Research? Kinda average? Exceptional? In between?

And what's your undergrad school like? It is highly selective and a known grade deflator? (ex. Princeton?) Allowances will be made... Or kinda average with no known deflation?

Thanks for offering to help! I'll PM you my school and information!

 

[FutureOncologist]

This isn't hard OP. If your scores fall between the 10-90%ile AND the school doesn't have a huge bias on IS vs. OOS, then apply. If you're looking for something like "you have a 58% chance of getting into X" we can't do that. People have already said this; at the end of the day it's all out of your hands once you send the application to the school. Either they invite you for interview or they reject you.

 

[ridethecliche]

I didn't know if it would be worth applying to schools where my MCAT sits just under their 90% but my GPA is just over their 10%. This is true for Brown and Dartmouth.

For UPenn and NYU, my GPA is actually UNDER their 10% and my MCAT is just over their 50%. So I wasn't sure how my stats had to be in relation to the school's stats for it to be a possible reach.

Pretty sure I don't have a chance at UPenn or NYU

Neither do most of the people that apply and that's why they're your reaches.

You're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Apply broadly and you're fine. You're worrying about all the wrong things...

 

[Goro]

Pay attention, Lulu, and stop fussing.

I suggest the following. Nothing wrong with aiming high; the ones I have in bold/red are schools where your GPA is ~0.3-0.4 points below their avg, and your GPA is the same or better as the school avg. Thus, proceed with caution on these, but I feel you're in striking distance for some of these.

Miami
St. Louis
Albany
Albert Einstein
Rochester
Rush
Rosy Franklin
BU
NYMC
EVMS
Wake Forest
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Emory
USC
Tulane
Dartmouth
Loyola
Creighton
Pitt
Northwestern
NYU
Vanderbilt
Columbia
Cornell
Duke
Case
Any new MD school, especially Hofstra and Va Tech
Your state school(s).

If so, would I be a victim of that at a school like Quinnipiac with a 3.55/37?

It's hard for me to believe since all med schools are hard to get into.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Okay @Goro I'll stop fussing 🙁

Here is my finalized list. If you think I've left myself with a good shot of getting in somewhere, this will be the last time I ask about my school list.

Reach (5)
Case Western
Columbia
NYU Med
Boston University
Dartmouth

High Match (4)
U Rochester
Tufts
St Louis
Albert Einstein

Match (10)
SUNY Upstate
U Mass
Loyola
Wake Forest
Hofstra
Virginia Tech
Rosalind Franklin
U Vermont
Thomas Jefferson
Eastern Virginia Medical School

Low Match (7)
Albany Medical College
Virginia Commonwealth
Drexel
Rush
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Temple

 

[Tappinfool66]

It can be especially unpredictable for applicants with uneven stats like yourself, but a cursory examination of MDapps suggests that they do. Schools like Temple and Drexel reject people with high stats pre-interview all the time.

About all I can say is a person with a 3.55/37 should get in somewhere

I've heard this about Drexel but I'm not sure it's necessarily true for Temple. I interviewed there with a 37 and a 3.9 and was accepted on October 15th. And I've heard a lot of people say that Temple's become a really good school lately and that it's considered the second best med school in Philly, with Penn being the best.

 

[aprimenumber]

The number of applicants has increased. The number of qualified applicants has remained constant. There aren't more, smarter people applying. For a given applicant, you aren't competing with any more people. Admissions offices are having to wade through more applicants to find the right people.

That kinda makes sense, especially since the average MCAT score for matriculants increases every year.

 

[Goro]

Good list!

Okay @Goro I'll stop fussing 🙁

Here is my finalized list. If you think I've left myself with a good shot of getting in somewhere, this will be the last time I ask about my school list.

Reach (5)
Case Western
Columbia
NYU Med
Boston University
Dartmouth

High Match (4)
U Rochester
Tufts
St Louis
Albert Einstein

Match (10)
SUNY Upstate
U Mass
Loyola
Wake Forest
Hofstra
Virginia Tech
Rosalind Franklin
U Vermont
Thomas Jefferson
Eastern Virginia Medical School

Low Match (7)
Albany Medical College
Virginia Commonwealth
Drexel
Rush
Quinnipiac
New York Medical College
Temple

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Good list!

Thanks Goro! Now all that's left is to decide if I need to apply DO. Would I be safe applying to all allopathic?

 

[FutureOncologist]

Thanks Goro! Now all that's left is to decide if I need to apply DO. Would I be safe applying to all allopathic?

I know you were asking for Goro's opinion here, but assuming you have good ECs and LORs, you have a good chance for an MD acceptance. If you've had to retake a class for a better grade, your AACOMAS GPA will be even better and I think you'd be a shoe-in for all DO schools.

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks Goro! Now all that's left is to decide if I need to apply DO. Would I be safe applying to all allopathic?

With that list, I think you are good.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

I've never retaken any classes. I just don't want to risk not getting in anywhere and not being able to start school in 2016. Based on the AAMC applicants with my stats have only a 64% accept rate to allopathic schools which makes me think I need to apply to a few osteopathic schools as well.

I know you were asking for Goro's opinion here, but assuming you have good ECs and LORs, you have a good chance for an MD acceptance. If you've had to retake a class for a better grade, your AACOMAS GPA will be even better and I think you'd be a shoe-in for all DO schools.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

With that list, I think you are good.

Thanks for all of your advice! Everyone on SDN is so helpful 🙂

Leaning towards just applying to allopathic schools.

 

[Doug Underhill]

Lulu and I are locked in an ongoing struggle over who can be the most neurotic "high MCAT low GPA" poster on SDN.

 

[Goro]

Concur.

With that list, I think you are good.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Concur.

Then it's settled. Thanks Goro for all your help. I love you and that spooky cat in your avatar.

 

[DokterMom]

I've never retaken any classes. I just don't want to risk not getting in anywhere and not being able to start school in 2016. Based on the AAMC applicants with my stats have only a 64% accept rate to allopathic schools which makes me think I need to apply to a few osteopathic schools as well.

But you've also got strong research and ECs. That and a decent personality are what separate the 64% with your stats who make it from the 44% who don't.

 

[LuluLovesMe]

Lulu and I are locked in an ongoing struggle over who can be the most neurotic "high MCAT low GPA" poster on SDN.

I can't imagine anyone more neurotic than me but then again this is SDN.

 

[Nevergup]

Hmm, excellent thread. 🙂 I guess I'm updating my school list since I have nearly identical stats: 521/3.55, (3.75 sgpa).

Also, why was op banned?

 

[watermelon master]

Hmm, excellent thread. 🙂 I guess I'm updating my school list since I have nearly identical stats: 521/3.55, (3.75 sgpa).

Also, why was op banned?

I think OP got into UMass. Don't know why they were banned.