DO matching FM acgme with comlex only?

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futuredrdo

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curious as to how many programs, i need to apply/interview?

nothing stellar, just your average middle of the pack student at DO school

COMLEX scores below avg
 
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Chances not great, focus on low tier mainly. Obviously apply to a few reaches, but the money is going to be in low tier programs. COMLEX only will be an issue with some programs, lowish scores at that makes it worse.
 
Could also depend on how well the non-academic parts of your app speak to a PD. I struggled my first two years of med school. I took USLME 1 and scored a 198, didn't take USMLE 2, failed comlex 1 on first attempt, passed on second attempt with 460s, and then scored 480s on comlex 2. I also had an academic probation period during second year. I applied to 30 FM programs (mostly MD) in the southeast, and received 3 DO interviews, and 9 MD. 3 were at larger academic MD programs. I ended up matching at my number 1 program, which was MD. Pretty much every interview I went on, the PDs told me that the personal statement I wrote was what impressed them the most about my application, and many flat out said that after having talked to me in the interview, I was exactly what they were looking for in a candidate. A good, easy-going personality and having good interview skills can take you a long way.
 
Could also depend on how well the non-academic parts of your app speak to a PD. I struggled my first two years of med school. I took USLME 1 and scored a 198, didn't take USMLE 2, failed comlex 1 on first attempt, passed on second attempt with 460s, and then scored 480s on comlex 2. I also had an academic probation period during second year. I applied to 30 FM programs (mostly MD) in the southeast, and received 3 DO interviews, and 9 MD. 3 were at larger academic MD programs. I ended up matching at my number 1 program, which was MD. Pretty much every interview I went on, the PDs told me that the personal statement I wrote was what impressed them the most about my application, and many flat out said that after having talked to me in the interview, I was exactly what they were looking for in a candidate. A good, easy-going personality and having good interview skills can take you a long way.

Yep I agree with this.

I had (very average) COMLEX only and had no problem getting a lot of acgme or dual accredited interviews. I got interviews at academic places with mostly MDs. I didn't apply to any aoa only programs.

My application was somewhat unique and it seems that family medicine in general looks at things outside of just scores, so that obviously helped me.

I think I got something like 20 interviews and ended up going on 11 or 12 of them.

I matched at my 3rd choice but really I was pretty much tied on my 1-3 choices so I'm very happy with how it turned out.

I think all DO students should take the USMLE if you know you'll do at least half way decent on it, but it's not the end of the world if you don't. It worked out just fine for me.
 
when people say "lower tier" what is an example of some places for example?
 
when people say "lower tier" what is an example of some places for example?
I don't know anything about DO FM residencies. I trust @cabinbuilder.

As for ACGME residencies, there aren't any tiers. There are some rankings that are relatively useless, such as Doximity that measures popularity of programs among PDs.

The tier suggestion just means that you need to go after FM programs that aren't competitive. Which is dog whistle for "look at a program's current residents, and evaluate how popular the residency is on the USMD/DO/IMG/FMG continuum." That's really all you have to go on. Yes, I'm saying that in general, more USMDs, more competitive, more FMGs, less competitive. Are there stellar FMG/IMG candidates that crush less stellar USMDs? You betcha. Do PDs always have time to see that FMGs/IMGs are stellar when the pile already has too many USMDs and DOs in it? Nope. Are there MD programs where the PD will consider DO equivalent to USMD, or top-3-IMG as superior to lesser-known-DO, etc? You betcha. Do PDs try to minimize the amount of time they spend agonizing over which candidates to invite to an interview, because they have to do it every goddamn year? You betcha. Can you necessarily find out which residencies are going to be fairest to you because of your school, other than looking at the med schools the residents are from? Nope. Do you sometimes have to do extreme internet gymnastic Sherlockery to find out what med schools populate a residency? Yup. Are coastal and metropolitan residencies harder to get into in FM like in other specialties? Yup. Should you apply to every FM residency where an alumni from your school matched in the last 5-10 years? Yup.

If you have little on your CV to make you compelling to an FM PD (community engagement, underserved activities, nontrivial leadership, nontrivial FM interest, nontrivial recommendations from FM docs, prior nontrivial work experience, etc), that's just as bad or worse than crap stats. PDs aren't confused that FM is the universal safety (along with IM). About half of my target residencies required a program-specific essay. (Imho this speaks positively about a program.)

From the interview trail I learned that some people apply to as few as 5, some over 200. If you're going to research residencies to make good choices, you can apply to fewer. If you're not going to rigorously research residencies, then you need to apply to more. There's no way to predict whether you'll get invited or not.

I suggest that money can be used as a deciding factor. I suggest that if you want to be in a coastal or metropolitan area, you need to spend a boatload of money. I suggest that with a poor app you should probably be initially thinking in terms of 40 well researched or 100 poorly researched apps and hope for at least 10 interviews. Here's what ERAS charged in 2015:
Programs Per Specialty Application Fees
Up to 10 $97
11-20 $11 each
21-30 $16 each
31 or more $26 each

Getting more interviews than you want to go to isn't a bad thing - you just cancel a less preferred residency for a more preferred one when you get more than you can handle or afford. (Be organized. Be considerate.)

I think there are definitely some FM residencies that are worse than nothing, which you should be able to figure out on the interview trail (and from SDN, to a lesser extent) and then don't rank them. I think there are some more-likely-academic programs that make it really hard to get good training and make the prospect of independence really sketchy. And as you'll see in @cabinbuilder posts, if you decide to be the grownup in charge of getting what you want and need out of your residency, and if you decide to train the crap out of yourself, then you don't really have anything to worry about in terms of employability.

Best of luck to you.
 
So true. Residency isn't some "magical place" that trains you. It is a tool in place to help you learn what you need to be a competent physician. Of course there are always horror stories. Just read @JustPlainBill posts to get an inside look at a residency that is "supposed to be good". Residency is what you make of it. I scrambled into a very small unopposed AOA FM residency and had a super great time. I learned everything I wanted to do the job I wanted. I set up my own electives knowing that I wanted to be a wilderness doctor and be able to stand on my own. I knew that I would never be in the OR so even surgical rotations I spent all my time in clinic learning what I could do in the office setting: ortho, GI, gen surg, podiatry, peds. I did extra ER shifts and rotations. I took the chief resident slot to learn people management and conflict resolution. Co-ordination of clinic and rotation schedules. You need to learn what is stable, what is urgent and what is emergent. Who really needs to be in the hospital now and who can wait. Medicine rotations in residency are hard. There is tons to learn and the long hours suck. Being on call sucks. Being up for 36 hours sucks. But I tell you that when I was working on an Island and had to make the decision whether to put a patient on a medevac plane because of location I sure was glad that I knew what I was doing and could make sound decisions and save people from dying.

Again, there is good and bad in residency. But just like any job it's all about attitude and willingness to learn. If you are proactive in your learning and make it known that you are teachable then wherever you land in the end will be just fine.
 
So true. Residency isn't some "magical place" that trains you. It is a tool in place to help you learn what you need to be a competent physician. Of course there are always horror stories. Just read @JustPlainBill posts to get an inside look at a residency that is "supposed to be good". Residency is what you make of it. I scrambled into a very small unopposed AOA FM residency and had a super great time. I learned everything I wanted to do the job I wanted. I set up my own electives knowing that I wanted to be a wilderness doctor and be able to stand on my own. I knew that I would never be in the OR so even surgical rotations I spent all my time in clinic learning what I could do in the office setting: ortho, GI, gen surg, podiatry, peds. I did extra ER shifts and rotations. I took the chief resident slot to learn people management and conflict resolution. Co-ordination of clinic and rotation schedules. You need to learn what is stable, what is urgent and what is emergent. Who really needs to be in the hospital now and who can wait. Medicine rotations in residency are hard. There is tons to learn and the long hours suck. Being on call sucks. Being up for 36 hours sucks. But I tell you that when I was working on an Island and had to make the decision whether to put a patient on a medevac plane because of location I sure was glad that I knew what I was doing and could make sound decisions and save people from dying.

Again, there is good and bad in residency. But just like any job it's all about attitude and willingness to learn. If you are proactive in your learning and make it known that you are teachable then wherever you land in the end will be just fine.

Agree with @cabinbuilder with one caveat --- there are peckerwoods that prove the Peter Principle and get promoted to the point where they can't damage the institution that they work for -- some of them wind up as Program Directors or Faculty attendings --- where I was at, the PD had a reputation for picking a resident from each intern class and trying to either fire them or make them quit. To my understanding, the program has been sued more often than any other residency program at that institution and has even had a surprise visit from the ACGME arranged by a certain resident whom they were trying to shaft -- it's long been an unfilled residency --- So -- choose wisely, find out if they hide the interns from you during interviews or do they let them alone with you to chat? And recall that once you've matched, it is VERY VERY difficult to switch within the same field --- again, choose wisely.
 
Similar situation as the OP, do you guys think taking the usmle step2 would help me at all? Looking at FM residencies at the West Coast, ones that's dual accredited as well.

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