DO -> MD school

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bluebean

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Hi, guys

I know DO to MD school transfer is difficult. So, do you know if one can reapply to MD school while being DO student? Will it look bad to MD school adcom?

I want to get into MD school, but there is no guarantee it will work out next year either. So, I am trying to apply to DO school this cycle before the deadline, and reapply to MD school next cycle. Basically DO will be my back up plan.

Any comments? Advice?
 
Hi, guys

I know DO to MD school transfer is difficult. So, do you know if one can reapply to MD school while being DO student? Will it look bad to MD school adcom?

I want to get into MD school, but there is no guarantee it will work out next year either. So, I am trying to apply to DO school this cycle before the deadline, and reapply to MD school next cycle. Basically DO will be my back up plan.

Any comments? Advice?

don't
 
It is all but unheard of.

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because in addition to any school saying "wtf, you clearly care only about the letters," your workload being too heavy to take any time off at all to interview, the fact that you are actually starting med school, the interviewers asking why the holy hell you started a DO school if you didn't want to go, etc. it is a completely douchebag move to take a seat from someone dying to get in when you have absolutely no intention on staying.
 
because in addition to any school saying "wtf, you clearly care only about the letters," your workload being too heavy to take any time off at all to interview, the fact that you are actually starting med school, the interviewers asking why the holy hell you started a DO school if you didn't want to go, etc. it is a completely douchebag move to take a seat from someone dying to get in when you have absolutely no intention on staying.

👍
 
Losing a year of potential income to change your degree is :laugh:
 
Someone from my school applied to MD schools during their first year DO.... he didn't tell the MD schools he was in a DO school, got accepted to one MD school...... and nothing ever happened, he lives happily ever after
 
Who said anything about having absolutely no intention on staying? Why the hell anyone go to DO school just to get letters? Some people want to have another shot at MD school while being afraid of wasting another year. If it doesn't work out, they will stay with DO and continue their education.

No need to be offensive. I just wanted to know if anyone does that with medical school. I know many does that with undergraduate schools. They aim for IVY Leagues, doesn't work out, so get into state school, and do transfer or start all over freshman year.

Who was offensive? 😕

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Why? People spend same amount of money and time on SMP/post bacc.

Either be happy at a DO school (assuming you get accepted into one) OR do an SMP/post bacc. Don't spend a year at a DO school planning on applying to MD schools again with the hopes of getting an acceptance the second time around.
 
Either be happy at a DO school (assuming you get accepted into one) OR do an SMP/post bacc. Don't spend a year at a DO school planning on applying to MD schools again with the hopes of getting an acceptance the second time around.

Right.

This is by definition wasting a year. Being a current DO student will be a mark against you in MD admissions. So you either exclude it or hurt your chances. An smp is a much better option.

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I entertained the idea of applying to a bridge program when I was applying to med school, but gave up on that idea immediately when I got accepted. I am perfectly happy with where I am now. Bird in the hand...
 
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I don't see what all the fuss is. If its easy and inexpensive, what's to lose?
 
Do whatever makes you happy. Welcome to America. Seriously though, it's probably a better idea to take a year off to do an SMP/Post Bacc. If it's that important to you then don't let anyone else tell your how to spend YOUR time. It's a nonsensical argument as no one knows how long they will live or when they will be ready to retire. Live life.
 
I don't see what all the fuss is. If its easy and inexpensive, what's to lose?

A year's worth of medical school debt (plus the accrued interest)? That's not inexpensive.
 
One of my students did so, to Tulane, I beleive. But she had to do so because her husband was re-located there for job reasons. Overall, while it's doable, it will look bad, and people will question your both your committment and judgement.

Hi, guys

I know DO to MD school transfer is difficult. So, do you know if one can reapply to MD school while being DO student? Will it look bad to MD school adcom?

I want to get into MD school, but there is no guarantee it will work out next year either. So, I am trying to apply to DO school this cycle before the deadline, and reapply to MD school next cycle. Basically DO will be my back up plan.

Any comments? Advice?
 
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Who said anything about having absolutely no intention on staying? Why the hell anyone go to DO school just to get letters? Some people want to have another shot at MD school while being afraid of wasting another year. If it doesn't work out, they will stay with DO and continue their education.

No need to be offensive. I just wanted to know if anyone does that with medical school. I know many does that with undergraduate schools. They aim for IVY Leagues, doesn't work out, so get into state school, and do transfer or start all over freshman year.

You're assuming that your credits will transfer. It's not likely. Therefore, you ARE wasting a year. If you want to go the MD route, don't apply this cycle and then just apply MD next cycle.
 
because in addition to any school saying "wtf, you clearly care only about the letters," your workload being too heavy to take any time off at all to interview, the fact that you are actually starting med school, the interviewers asking why the holy hell you started a DO school if you didn't want to go, etc. it is a completely douchebag move to take a seat from someone dying to get in when you have absolutely no intention on staying.

👍

Losing a year of potential income to change your degree is :laugh:

👍

I don't see what all the fuss is. If its easy and inexpensive, what's to lose?

👎

A year's worth of medical school debt (plus the accrued interest)? That's not inexpensive.

👍
 
This is a bad idea for several reasons.

1) If you didn't get an MD acceptance this time around, you probably won't get one next time. You can't list an improvement of your application as: "Experienced one year of osteopathic medical school."
2) As a first year, you won't have significant time to study for the MCAT again (one reason people go osteopathic, rather than allopathic).
3) I probably wouldn't write you another LOR. I wrote one for you once, you were given an opportunity. Me personally, if I was asked to send another LOR I would more than likely include any updates such as: currently attends osteopathic medical school.
4) Good luck finding time to go to interviews. You can't pull the "I have an interview that day with the course director. Nor can you tell the director of admissions you have to reschedule an interview because you have a medical school test."
5) If you pull this stunt and administration gets wind of it, be ready to have your life be a bit difficult from here on out.
6) Your credit hours won't transfer and you'll have to start over.
 
In addition to Bacchus' correct assessment:

one year DO school: $40k+ plus interest + living expenses

Annual income as a physician that you WOULD have had, had you spent that fifth year of med school as an attending: $150k-$350k+

Opportunity cost of going MD after one year DO: $200k-$400k+ and an extravagant fecal-load of superfluous, hard work

You might say it's not about the money... but tell that to a doc that's one year from retirement
 
Its possible to do, but every school is different. You need to take the usmle and you need a good reason to transfer. I know someone at my school transferred to Georgetown or George Washington. I'm pretty sure they started as a ms3.
 
6) Your credit hours won't transfer and you'll have to start over.

Best reason not to even think about it...the year you spend at your DO school will be a waste of 40k+, your time, your schools time, and everyone else that was involved in the process of getting you into that school.
 
obviously the best course of action is:
- don't apply DO this year
- improve your app ...there is probably a reason you didn't get in this year...fix it
- reapply MD early and broadly this summer
- if you don't get any interviews by ~December then apply DO, go there and learn to live with it.
 
Not a single school will be interested in poaching an MD reapplicant at a DO school. Either way, if DO school is so unsavory, don't apply to one. Go for an SMP.
 
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obviously the best course of action is:
- don't apply DO this year
- improve your app ...there is probably a reason you didn't get in this year...fix it
- reapply MD early and broadly this summer
- if you don't get any interviews by ~December then apply DO, go there and learn to live with it.

Agree with this except for the part about applying to DO schools in December. You should also apply DO early next summer. DON'T PUT IT OFF.
 
obviously the best course of action is:
- don't apply DO this year
- improve your app ...there is probably a reason you didn't get in this year...fix it
- reapply MD early and broadly this summer
- if you don't get any interviews by ~December then apply DO, go there and learn to live with it.

December for DO is late though.
 
Agree with this except for the part about applying to DO schools in December. You should also apply DO early next summer. DON'T PUT IT OFF.

December for DO is late though.

i would say this highly depends on OP's stats. maybe i should've said october-ish? problem is that DO deposits are extremely high and non-refundable so you don't want to lose $1-3k on deposits early on in the cycle. if you have very poor stats though (ex: 3.2, 25) then you should apply to both MD and DO early...if it's unbalanced but you have a high MCAT you should apply to DO a bit later, if you have low MCAT and high GPA consider applying earlier (or at the same time) ...though if your MCAT is low you should really work hard to bring it up!
 
i would say this highly depends on OP's stats. maybe i should've said october-ish? problem is that DO deposits are extremely high and non-refundable so you don't want to lose $1-3k on deposits early on in the cycle. if you have very poor stats though (ex: 3.2, 25) then you should apply to both MD and DO early...if it's unbalanced but you have a high MCAT you should apply to DO a bit later, if you have low MCAT and high GPA consider applying earlier (or at the same time) ...though if your MCAT is low you should really work hard to bring it up!

IMO losing a $1000 deposit >>>>> no acceptance at all
 
I shadowed at D.O. ENT today, so if your worried about competitive residencies then don't be, plus the merger.
 
I remember reading on here how someone transferred from DMU to Wisconsin because he felt the MD school would give him more research opportunities. That's not an extenuating circumstance. People sometimes also successfully transfer to schools like Drexel from the Caribbean...I'm sure if they have a shot, so do DO students.
 
Someone from my school applied to MD schools during their first year DO.... he didn't tell the MD schools he was in a DO school, got accepted to one MD school...... and nothing ever happened, he lives happily ever after

Just wait until his last year of med school, when financial aid realizes what he's done. And they will. He'll be trying to get his 5th year of financial aid for a 4 year program. Flags will indeed be raised, without question.

Your friend stands a very good chance of getting dismissed during his 4th year of medical school. Whoops!
 
I remember reading on here how someone transferred from DMU to Wisconsin because he felt the MD school would give him more research opportunities. That's not an extenuating circumstance. People sometimes also successfully transfer to schools like Drexel from the Caribbean...I'm sure if they have a shot, so do DO students.
These transfers are typically after 2nd year. People usually have a good reason under their belt too. I find the situation between DMU to Wisconsin odd unless he went into some MD/PhD program. Maybe this student is not sharing the entirety of the story.
 
Honestly I'm pretty surprised there isn't more mobility for medical students.

It's incredibly common for law students to transfer to a higher ranked school after first year. We are talking like a third of the class in some cases. This is because top schools want to be more selective in terms of GPA and LSAT so they rank higher on US News, however if you take a bunch of transfers second year that doesn't affect your entering class stats. So more money, higher average first year stats = win for transfer students, win for school accepting.

(If you graduated in 2000 from law school and are going to disagree with me, you are wrong and I am right, this is how law school works now.)

Now the thing is the last two years of medical school are really a money maker for schools right? At least if you have a monster university hospital with tons of residents, you are going to be way under capacity when it comes to third and fourth year students. What's the real cost of having a student if you've got the hospital? It's like pure profit.

There's a pretty objective standard (step 1) for evaluating transfers. Step 1 and the first 2 years of performance are a much better indication of your work ethic/brains/commitment than premed crap is.

IDK I think it'd make sense for schools to have people transfer.

Honestly worrying about the DO prestige thing is kind of silly. Nobody should care, and at least it means you trained in the US. 20% of new doctors will be DO's for the classes starting now, it's not like the degree is going to stay obscure.

The easier thing to do if you are that worried about it is to lobby at the state level to change your state law to allow you to use the MD acronym for your degree. That already exists in a lot of states for MBBS and all the other foreign degrees out there (ie that dashing british doctor with an MBBS has MD on his business card and nametag). State legislators could change the acronym for DO in a swipe of the pen. Acronyms are a legal fiction, not something that has to be set in stone.
 
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Honestly I'm pretty surprised there isn't more mobility for medical students.

It's incredibly common for law students to transfer to a higher ranked school after first year. We are talking like a third of the class in some cases. This is because top schools want to be more selective in terms of GPA and LSAT so they rank higher on US News, however if you take a bunch of transfers second year that doesn't affect your entering class stats. So more money, higher average first year stats = win for transfer students, win for school accepting.

(If you graduated in 2000 from law school and are going to disagree with me, you are wrong and I am right, this is how law school works now.)

Now the thing is the last two years of medical school are really a money maker for schools right? At least if you have a monster university hospital with tons of residents, you are going to be way under capacity when it comes to third and fourth year students. What's the real cost of having a student if you've got the hospital? It's like pure profit.

There's a pretty objective standard (step 1) for evaluating transfers. Step 1 and the first 2 years of performance are a much better indication of your work ethic/brains/commitment than premed crap is.

IDK I think it'd make sense for schools to have people transfer.

Honestly worrying about the DO prestige thing is kind of silly. Nobody should care, and at least it means you trained in the US. 20% of new doctors will be DO's for the classes starting now, it's not like the degree is going to stay obscure.

The easier thing to do if you are that worried about it is to lobby at the state level to change your state law to allow you to use the MD acronym for your degree. That already exists in a lot of states for MBBS and all the other foreign degrees out there (ie that dashing british doctor with an MBBS has MD on his business card and nametag). State legislators could change the acronym for DO in a swipe of the pen. Acronyms are a legal fiction, not something that has to be set in stone.

I don't know anything about law school but I would assume the main difficulty behind transferring medical schools is the curriculum variation between each school. Plus he loss of tuition when a kid leaves one school.

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That's why I said after second year. Everyone covers the same stuff by that point.

As per the transferring hurting the school the students are transferring from, that is obvious. It's not a win for them. Maybe medicine is just more charitable than law. Law schools are like "screw you, we win, the student wins, and you can't stop us."

Hmm now that I think about it maybe it is because of GME, if you make another school mad they are probably going to retaliate by not taking your students for GME.
 
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I'll say the usual.

Save the seat for someone who actually wants to be a DO. If you're above being a DO (I don't mean that in a confrontational manner, just can't think of another way to put it) then don't waste your time and the adcoms time.

What are your stats?
 
I'll say the usual.

Save the seat for someone who actually wants to be a DO. If you're above being a DO (I don't mean that in a confrontational manner, just can't think of another way to put it) then don't waste your time and the adcoms time.

What are your stats?

To expect anyone to be so self-sacrificing is naive.
 
That may be true, but that shouldn't stop us from encouraging the OP to do the honorable thing.

I think that is tangential at best. There is not a single advantage to taking the first year of DO school.

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I think that is tangential at best. There is not a single advantage to taking the first year of DO school.

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I think you misunderstand me. The honorable thing would be to not apply DO if the OP has a plan to re-apply MD after OMS-1. This is because, should he/she actually manage to land a seat and attend, there is 1less seat for a student who would actually like to become a DO.
 
I think you misunderstand me. The honorable thing would be to not apply DO if the OP has a plan to re-apply MD after OMS-1. This is because, should he/she actually manage to land a seat and attend, there is 1less seat for a student who would actually like to become a DO.

Why is it dishonorable to try and take advantage of opportunities as they come?

I don't know about the OP, so the following is purely speculation.

OP applies DO because they can't get into MD and figure it's better to not waste a year improving and applying MD. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to start their physician training asap).

Then, after OMS-1, OP figures they did very well and now might be able to transfer to an MD school and avoid any potential DO-bias down the road. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to be an MD, his obvious preference).

It's not like the guy/girl is maliciously stealing a DO spot from someone else. ADCOMs decide who they want. If someone not really interested in DO can convince an ADCOM otherwise, more power to them.

Edit: I constantly read "for someone who actually wants to be a DO" in this forum and I don't understand it. If I have a 3.6/33 and want MSTP would it be dishonorable for me to apply to plain-MD (since my stats are likely too low for MSTP) since I would be taking a spot from someone who "actually wants to be a plain-MD"?
 
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Why is it dishonorable to try and take advantage of opportunities as they come?

I don't know about the OP, so the following is purely speculation.

OP applies DO because they can't get into MD and figure it's better to not waste a year improving and applying MD. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to start their physician training asap).

Then, after OMS-1, OP figures they did very well and now might be able to transfer to an MD school and avoid any potential DO-bias down the road. (Taking advantage of an opportunity to be an MD, his obvious preference).

It's not like the guy/girl is maliciously stealing a DO spot from someone else. ADCOMs decide who they want. If someone not really interested in DO can convince an ADCOM otherwise, more power to them.

But the OP isn't talking about transferring, he's talking about straight up re-applying MD to see if he can get in, while holding down a DO spot just in case. That is straight from post #1.

If you can't see how this is not only an idiotic plan, but a perfect example of degree worshipping douchebaggery then I can't help you.

OP should just apply MD from the get go. If he doesn't get in then he can improve and re-apply the next year and he won't be any worse off than he would if this whole hare-brained scheme were to be attempted. His chances of landing MD are similar to his chances at DO, you of all people should realize that.
 
But the OP isn't talking about transferring, he's talking about straight up re-applying MD to see if he can get in, while holding down a DO spot just in case. That is straight from post #1.

If you can't see how this is not only an idiotic plan, but a perfect example of degree worshipping douchebaggery then I can't help you.

OP should just apply MD from the get go. If he doesn't get in then he can improve and re-apply the next year and he won't be any worse off than he would if this whole hare-brained scheme were to be attempted. His chances of landing MD are similar to his chances at DO, you of all people should realize that.

Transferring vs reapplying is semantics. You said it's dishonorable because he is stealing a spot from someone who truly wants DO. He is "stealing" that spot whether he transfers or simply reapplies.

Also, I don't think anyone's chances of landing MD are similar to chances at DO so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. My chances at DO were always much higher than MD. Hence 7ii/9complete DO apps, 2 DO acceptances/2 DO interviews attended, and 5ii/~23 complete MD apps and only 1 acceptance/5 MD interviews attended.
 
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