Do med schools ask for Dean's records??

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premed 101

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Hello, as the title state I was wondering if medical schools ask for Dean's records from the undergraduate institution. A friend of mine has one count of plagiarism on her Dean's disciplinary records and is scared that she will not be even considered. She was told that these records are not included with the transcript but are made available to schools which request it by letter. Does anyone know of a such instance? With her being a straight A student, how likely is it for a school to do so?

Thanks
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premed 101 said:
Hello, as the title state I was wondering if medical schools ask for Dean's records from the undergraduate institution. A friend of mine has one count of plagiarism on her Dean's disciplinary records and is scared that she will not be even considered. She was told that these records are not included with the transcript but are made available to schools which request it by letter. Does anyone know of a such instance? With her being a straight A student, how likely is it for a school to do so?

Thanks
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I have emailed one school (haven't bothered with other schools yet) regarding what letters they require and they told me they require the usual references and also a letter from my school's Dean's office to show I am in good standing with the university (no academic misconduct). I'm not sure if this is typical for other schools but I guess it probably varies.
 
From AMCAS:

Were you ever the recipient of any institutional action by any college or medical school for unacceptable academic performance or conduct violation, even though such action may not have interrupted your enrollment or required you to withdraw?

Don't lie. Its not worth it.
 
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Rach83 said:
I have emailed one school (haven't bothered with other schools yet) regarding what letters they require and they told me they require the usual references and also a letter from my school's Dean's office to show I am in good standing with the university (no academic misconduct). I'm not sure if this is typical for other schools but I guess it probably varies.
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I see. I think academic standing is on the transcript, is it not? But they're probably looking for something else.

Who/what is usual reference? What school requires this if you don't mind me asking.
 
premed 101 said:
I see. I think academic standing is on the transcript, is it not? But they're probably looking for something else.

Who/what is usual reference? What school requires this if you don't mind me asking.
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Indiana U. I just went to check what the wording was and turns out I made up the academic misconduct stuff, all they said was "Dean of Student's evaluation" though I'm not yet sure what that means. I assume the Dean's office would put in all the info they have....
 
Bacchus said:
Even if the evaluation isn't needed, the plagiarism charge must be listed.
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Well I don't know if it was plagiarism ( I know I said plagiarism at the top). She had the same answer as some other student, and I think that it's probably in the records as plagiarism.
 
I love these "a friend of mine" posts...

Plagiarism charges and convictions are extremely serious matters. To fail to disclose this on the AMCAS is a huge mistake that could be fatal to your medical school aspirations.

Some schools clearly ask for a "dean's letter," but this has nothing to do with the issue of reporting the institutional action on AMCAS.
 
Regarding the AMCAS question, I think how your friend answers depends on what happened. Was she just given a warning by the teacher? Did the teacher change her grade on that one assignment? I don't think those are "institutional actions."

To me, the term "institutional action" means things that are done on an institutional level, not just a professor level -- things such as probation, a formal warning from the university, honor court proceedings, etc. Of course, if it's listed in the Dean Letter, it is likely considered an institutional action.

I didn't even know schools had "Dean Letters" or Dean Files. I would assume that any institutional action would be reflected on the transcript.

If it makes your friend feel any better, none of the schools that I applied to asked for a letter. I assume the school would have to ask the student to get the letter. I doubt the school could release any student information to any medical schools without the student's permission.
 
flip26 said:
I love these "a friend of mine" posts...

Plagiarism charges and convictions are extremely serious matters. To fail to disclose this on the AMCAS is a huge mistake that could be fatal to your medical school aspirations.

Some schools clearly ask for a "dean's letter," but this has nothing to do with the issue of reporting the institutional action on AMCAS.
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Agreed. Sadly, I think the reality though is that most students who face institutional action don't report it on AMCAS because it's difficult for medical schools to find out about it. I have never heard of a person being admitted to medical school and later kicked out because they found out the person lied when they said NO to the AMCAS question. I think it's an honor system thing, and they rely on/trust people to report it.
 
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premed 101 said:
Well I don't know if it was plagiarism ( I know I said plagiarism at the top). She had the same answer as some other student, and I think that it's probably in the records as plagiarism.
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That sounds like cheating, not plagiarism. I know they are related, but still ...
 
This has come up tons and tons of times on this forum. The vast majority of institutions will send out things like academic misconduct and honor violations to graduate schools with your final transcript. I know a girl who "failed to mention" her honor violation - 40 days before med school started she was dropped from the class and her spot was filled from the waitlist immediately. The fact is, she outright lied on her AMCAS and the secondary which directly asked "Have you been subject to institutional action?" So, my point is - DO NOT TRY TO HIDE IT, just suck it up and hone up to it. I have an infraction on my record as well and it never came up (and I made sure to indicate it on my AMCAS and those secondaries that asked).
 
justin21 said:
Agreed. Sadly, I think the reality though is that most students who face institutional action don't report it on AMCAS because it's difficult for medical schools to find out about it. I have never heard of a person being admitted to medical school and later kicked out because they found out the person lied when they said NO to the AMCAS question. I think it's an honor system thing, and they rely on/trust people to report it.
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It has definitely happened - a poster reports just this sort of anecdote above me. Don't assume because you have never heard about it that this sort of thing doesn't happen.
 
flip26 said:
It has definitely happened - a poster reports just this sort of anecdote above me. Don't assume because you have never heard about it that this sort of thing doesn't happen.
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I'm sure it happens. I just don't think it happens very frequently because it's going to be difficult for med schools to get the information.
 
if your school has a premed committee that will write a letter for you they will likely report it. if you fail to report this on your AMCAS and one of the schools you apply to asks for some kind of certification or letter from the dean and find out about this incident i wouldn't be shocked if they report it to AMCAS which will subsequently let the rest of your schools know.

not hearing about people who have gotten caught is not a good reason to do it. i highly doubt anyone would come on SDN or elsewhere and brag about something like this or would even tell any of their friends about it.
 
justin21 said:
I'm sure it happens. I just don't think it happens very frequently because it's going to be difficult for med schools to get the information.
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You're right, it doesn't happen very frequently because the VAST MAJORITY of people answer honestly so it's not an issue. I can't even believe you're considering not putting it down - you have SO much to lose by getting caught (which is a good chance, these sorts of offenses are on your permanent record for a reason)
 
justin21 said:
I'm sure it happens. I just don't think it happens very frequently because it's going to be difficult for med schools to get the information.
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Dear Justin / Premed 101:

It is against SDN TOS to have 2 accounts...

Otherwise, this is quite a coincidence that you both are "new members" in the last day and all of your 7 posts are on this one thread advocating for the idiotic position of lying on the AMCAS...
 
AdmiralChz said:
You're right, it doesn't happen very frequently because the VAST MAJORITY of people answer honestly so it's not an issue. I can't even believe you're considering not putting it down - you have SO much to lose by getting caught (which is a good chance, these sorts of offenses are on your permanent record for a reason)
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I'm not sure why you say "you." I've never had any problems.
 
flip26 said:
Dear Justin / Premed 101:

It is against SDN TOS to have 2 accounts...

Otherwise, this is quite a coincidence that you both are "new members" in the last day and all of your 7 posts are on this one thread advocating for the idiotic position of lying on the AMCAS...
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I'm not premed 101! And I never suggested that anyone lie.
 
Bacchus said:
Lets focus on the topic at hand...
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The question posed in the thread title has been answered. Yes, some schools do ask for a dean's letter.

The thread then drifts into the "likelihood of getting caught" questions which is nothing more than "can I cheat or lie my way into med school and not get caught."

Might as well shut this one down right now. Nothing more needs to be said on this topic.
 
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