DO Neurologists?

[emidesu]

I am starting MSI at a DO school and am really interested in neurology. Does anyone have advice for me about getting into neuro residencies as a DO?

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[Claymore]

I went through the whole process this past application cycle and if you are asking about your competitiveness it is pretty wide open. I think maybe the top 5-10 programs may show some discrimination otherwise you can go just about anywhere.

As with anything, board scores, letters of recommendation, and clinical rotation grades probably matter the most. Don't worry too much about your grades from basic science as long as you learn what you need to be prepared for boards. Also, any type of research (even if not in neuro) helps. Try to work with a neuro big-wig, or at least someone well-known from the university level and get a letter at some point...I think these really count alot. I worked with a guy who was relatively well known and he wrote me a strong letter, I think I saw interviewers refer to that letter at every single interview I did. If your school has a SIGN group, join it. If not consider starting one. Good luck!

 

[bustbones26]

At least at this time, if you have a pulse, you will match into neurology, DO or ACGME. Now of course, if you want to go to a highly regarded place like mayo, johns hopkins, etc., then you might need to be somewhat competitive, but in general, to get into a basic bare bones general neurology program at a normal average everyday hospital pretty much requires a pulse and a diploma.

Neurology is not very competitive for many reason:

1) People think its hard. I always hear, "oh I could never learn all of that neuroanatomy". Well hell, if you're a surgeon, you have to learn anatomy 101 all over again, do dissections, etc. what is so bad about having to learn neuroanatomy

2) "I could never take care of patients that have incurable diseases". Big reason why most people say they'd never do neuro.

3) Last, and of course not the least. The money is not there. Neurologist do not make big bucks.

Now, the caveat to number 3 listed above is the future of stroke neurology, vascular neurology, interventional neurology, call it whatever you want its all the same. As this area of medicine takes off it would be on the same level as interventional cards = big $$$. Of course these programs are competitive and open to neurosurgeons, neurorads, as well as neurologist. I sense over the next five years a huge pilgrimage of people who have this sudden fascination with neurology and want to be neurology residents because they all think they will get a fellowship in interventional neurology, because lets face it, getting a neurology residency as easier than rads and a hell of a lot easier than neurosurg. Just my opinon, no numbers or proof to go with this so if anybody wants to quote article, or post some official journal entry with stats here, by all means do so.


So bottom line in regards to your question. Being a DO will not affect your ability to get a good solid neurology residency spot somewhere in this country.

 

[bluegold]

I was wondering if you guys could comment on your interview process. Did you interview before comlex II or after and was that an issue? Do you feel that you could match without a step 2 score?

Any input would be great

 

[Methyldopa]

3) Last, and of course not the least. The money is not there. Neurologist do not make big bucks.

I disagree with this statement. When did our profession (medicine in general) become so diluded to consider big bucks only equivalent to making millions of dollars.

You will make money as a neurologist and live very comfortably. Just to put things in prospective, only 10% of households make over $100,000. And then just 2.37% make more than $200,000.

As a neurologist you could hit $200,000, from what I've heard fairly easily.

 

[Claymore]

I was wondering if you guys could comment on your interview process. Did you interview before comlex II or after and was that an issue? Do you feel that you could match without a step 2 score?

Any input would be great

I don't think it matters at all. I took Step 2 in January, after all my interviewing was finished, and my scores weren't back until long after the match took place.

 

[bluegold]

Thanks!

 

[bustbones26]

As a neurologist you could hit $200,000, from what I've heard fairly easily.

This is true and I would not disagree with this at all, but why is neurology not competitive and radiology, interventional cardiology, etc are? Because in those professions there is the potential to make over 400K, easily!

I am sorry, I like neurology and am more than happy to be in neurology residency, but I can honestly say that of the entire population of medical students and future docs that I have dealt with since my initiation as an MS-1 have one thing on their mind only.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

And that's the bottom line! Just look around these boards, almost every specialty board has

"how much does X make?"
"Could I be a bazillionaire if I do X".
"I got 100th percentile on my board exams, why should I do family practice and make 120K when I can do something else?"

Yes, there are people out there where this is their chief concern is chief reason for choosing a specialty. Not everybody mind you.

 

[bustbones26]

I was wondering if you guys could comment on your interview process. Did you interview before comlex II or after and was that an issue? Do you feel that you could match without a step 2 score?

Any input would be great

Back in my day, they still had the pencil and paper COMLEX II, so you pretty much had to take in August at the top of your fourth year. If not, your only other choice was December. So most did take COMLEX II before they interviewed. But you know how it is, it could take 8 weeks to get your scores back, so even though you took it in august, didn't mean that you had results when you were interviewing. Now that everything is computerized, who knows?

So, really, if you interview early, you probably won't have your step II scores. But it doesn't matter too much. If you rotated at a site and they observed you, this means so much more than your step II scores.

I have been allowed to be a part of the selection process at my residency program, and here is what it boils down to:

1) If you did a questionable performance on your rotation and failed your boards, you will be ranked at the bottom of the list.

2) If you did an awesome job on your rotation and failed your boards, this will not disqualify you, but the program director might have a discussion about it? Some people are just poor test takers, etc. this will not hurt you.

3) If you did an awesome job on your rotation and aced your boards, then you can go anywhere you want.

4) If you did a questionable performance on your rotation and showed that you could give two $hits less about patient care, treated patients like dirt, interacted poorly with other students and residents, but got over 90th percentile on your boards, did research, and have over a 3.5 GPA, then there are still some programs that will top rank you because they want you to do research while a resident with them and score high on inservice exams and use you as a bragging right for their program.

 

[bluegold]

Thanks for the response.

If I could just pick your brain one last time...

What is considered doing well on your boards? (Comlex scoring still gives me a headache).

Any possiblity of signing outside the match?

Thanks again

 

[bustbones26]

truth is, a number of ACGME programs don't even know what a good COMLEX score is. This year, when I sat down with my staff to review applicants, they all turned to me for an explanation. But then again, I am in a residency on the west coast where DO's are still making their mark. On the east coast where DO's are in abundance, I am sure the program directors know what I good score is.

Here is what I counseled my attendings, and I think it is fair.

400 is passing
NBOME claims that 500 is average
over 600 is great.

 

[n0chi]

so it is possible to place into neuro as a do, by just taking comlex? one doesnt need to do usmle as well?
thanks.

 

[Boxer1]

so it is possible to place into neuro as a do, by just taking comlex? one doesnt need to do usmle as well?
thanks.

I would also like to hear comments about applying to ACGME Neurology programs having only taken the COMLEX.

 

[PainDr]

I only took the COMLEX and had more interviews than I could attend. Most programs don't even know what a good COMLEX score is. They usually only care that you passed your boards and have good LORs. Of course, I had several outstanding LORs and ended up with my first choice!

 

[Nerdoscience]

Not that this is saying much, but Neurology has gotten a bit more competitive in the last few years. I think it really depends on what part of the country you are applying, what kinds of programs you want to get into, and what the rest of your application looks like.

 

[HamletDr.Seuss]

As a 4th Year DO student, I am more interested in clinical Neuro residencies than academic. Does anyone have a good list of these more clinically-based programs?

Cheers!

 

[Faebinder]

I am starting MSI at a DO school and am really interested in neurology. Does anyone have advice for me about getting into neuro residencies as a DO?

My advise.....

After the first year of med school you have a little break (not very sure if that is true with DOs but I think it's the same style). During that free time (2 months) you have a chance to do neurology research.... this can be very helpful because a) you will end up being published by the time you apply for residency and b) you will get to know a neurologist in your system of schooling more than the average student and thus more able to get LoRs that matter.

The key is hunting down someone very active in publishing and is willing/able to mentor you on research because you as an MS1 are probably completely clueless on what topics to work on that is hot and publishable...not to mention don't have the patient database (clinical research) or the lab (basic science research).

Finding a neurologist mentor can be an effort but is well well worth it... give yourself a head run of 2 month before the time off... get a list of the neurologists in the department.. check out their publications on pubmed and speak with the program coordinator of neurology asking her who is well known to publish and mentor students in the department.

Hope that help....a lot of work but when you look back during fourth year you will thank me.

(Wish I had a mentor in the first year, I was an idiot and just did basic science research and didnt get my name on anything from it... I caught up later though with a lot of clinical science research.)

Good luck.