DO or Stony Brook Med Guaranteed Admission Masters

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AthleteDoc7

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Are you talking about the post-bacc pre-health program at Stony Brook? If not, did you apply to SB SOM for MD and then was offered this program instead?

"The Post-Baccalaureate Pre-Health Program is intended for students who have received a bachelors but still need to take the necessary coursework to prepare for careers in medicine, dentistry, or other health-related fields. Students enroll in the appropriate undergraduate courses with non-matriculating Graduate Student (GSP) status. The undergraduate coursework, coupled with the advisement resources of the Academic and Transfer Advising Services Center, will help to prepare students for the application process to graduate health programs. Accepted students will participate in a special orientation and may partake in post-baccalaureate focused events and programs. This select student group will be academically advised and tracked throughout their time at Stony Brook by the pre-professional advising staff. Stony Brook may nominate up to five eligible post-baccalaureate students per year for linkage (a special fast track admission) to Stony Brook’s School of Medicine. All students admitted to the program are expected to maintain a 3.0 cumulative grade point average."

Considering that you may have to re-apply next cycle should you not get in this one, the masters program would definitely be an effective "gap year" filler (free tuition and stipend). Could your stats be boosted after completing this program?

I do not believe that you will be in a binding agreement to SB Med if you accept this offer. Therefore, you can still apply broadly next cycle.
 
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AthleteDoc7 said:
I applied to SB med, was rejected, and was offered this program instead. it isn't undergraduate courses, it is a masters of science (in physiology I believe) which if you finish above their requirements guarantees you a spot in the med school the next year. and it was offered to me for free which makes it that much tougher!
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This is an awesome offer. If you have no qualms about the letters after your name, then DO is definitely way to go. It would be a waste of a year. As many people would say, "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush."

However, if you really liked SB then consider this as a paid gap year.

In the end, which of these decisions is a BETTER FIT for YOU? Reflect on your current personal situation, i.e. family, finances, locality..etc.
 
tdubst said:
Stony Brook may nominate up to five eligible post-baccalaureate students per year for linkage (a special fast track admission) to Stony Brook’s School of Medicine."
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I may be interpreting this wrong, but this does not sound like that "sure thing" that Op is making it out to be.
 
Glandzburg said:
I may be interpreting this wrong, but this does not sound like that "sure thing" that Op is making it out to be.
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While I agree with this interpretation, I consider a 3.0 a relatively low standard. I would have to wonder what difficulties could prevent someone from reaching this gpa that would not have the same detrimental effect as a MS1. -- Please excuse me if that comes off too strong..I guess I just have a higher expectation.
 
That is definitely the best course of action.
IF 3.0 is the only contingency AND you rather attend SB, then choose select the Master's program.
Else, matriculate at NYIT-COM (I have a classmate that will be entering as a MS1 )
 
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AthleteDoc7 said:
you are interpreting it wrong, because the program described in that post is not the program I am being offered. it is exactly the sure thing I described, assuming I can pass the program and meet the minimum stated requirements.
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If that is the case, then there is only one thing to consider: do you wish to enter a competitive specialty in which attending a DO program would make it considerably more difficult to secure a residency spot? If you plan to go into something like internal med, you have to think about potentially losing a year of attending salary in pursuit of an MD degree over DO.
 
AthleteDoc7 said:
So guys I don't post here often, but I have a bit of a decision to make here and hoped you all could help me. I will do my best to explain my predicament concisely.

I applied this cycle broadly to both MD and DO programs, and have been fortunate enough to gain admission to a bunch of great DO programs. Despite having 9 MD interviews, I have yet to get into any of them. I am waitlisted at 6 and waiting to hear back from a few.

Stony Brook Med, however, has accepted me into a program where I do a one year Masters program (FREE TUITION AND LIVING STIPEND!) and am guaranteed a spot in their med school for the following year if I successfully complete it meeting the minimum requirements (which I believe is a 3.0 average).

It is possible I could get into another MD school in which I am no longer eligible for this program, which would be great, but if it comes down to DO vs. contingent MD acceptance, what the heck do I do?!? the DO school I would go to would be NYIT-COM if I don't get any other MD love (desperately hoping I do).

Basically, does anyone have any info on this program? is it worth the potential risk of not successfully completing the program and losing my spot? any insight?

Thank you all for any help you offer!
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If you ONLY want to do some sort of ROAD or IM residency in an extremely competitive program at places like BWH, MGH, Standford, NYP, UCSF, UofChicago, Northwestern...etc etc...then do the one year masters.

If you want to be a doc....then choose the DO school.

If you do the masters, you are losing one years salary as an attending physician.
 
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Even as someone who is glad to be at a DO school, I would suggest thinking very carefully before passing up an opportunity to get a free master's degree and near-guaranteed admission to the attached medical school unless you really want to become a DO, especially considering your apparent interest in non-primary care medicine. Yes; you will lose a year's worth of salary over the course of your career. But you need to think about whether it's a reasonable sacrifice to pursue the kind of education and career you really want.

This is assuming that what you're saying about the guaranteed admission is true.
 
AthleteDoc7 said:
if it were you, what would you do? take the guaranteed spot and start med school in a couple months, or take the possible risk and an extra year for the MD at SBU? SB is my dream school and tuition is so cheap, but it feels very risky to give up a spot when I could potentially not meet the requirements. haha I don't know! such a tough choice.

ill just hope to get into another MD program in the meantime so I won't have to think about it lol.
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This statement gets a bold, italics, and underline because it's just that important. If SB is your dream school and you're really 100% guaranteed a spot by completing the master's with a 3.0, then you should do that. Master's classes are typically not as difficult as med school classes, so if you can't hold a 3.0 in a master's program then there's a good chance you may struggle significantly in med school. If there are other requirements, then you may have more to consider, but as it stands I would go for your dream school.

On top of that money is also a factor. Yes, you'll lose a year of physician salary, but consider your savings. SB costs 34k/year while NYIT-COM is 52k. So an 18k/year difference which comes out to 72k for 4 years. I'm not sure, but I would be willing to be that cost of living would be cheaper at SB than in NYC, so add another 10k for 4 years and you're saving 82k by going to SB. If you pay off your loans in 10 years (one of the quickest common methods), then you'll probably add another 75k or so, bringing your total difference up to 157k. If you decide to repay your loans slower you could end up with significantly more interest. Either way you'll come out about even financially.
 
Consider: Is getting the MD worth losing the lost year of revenue you'll make by graduating as a DO one year earlier?

Just because you'll have an MD doesn't mean that you'll be able to waltz into a peds Oncology or Nephrology residency. The competitive residencies are competitive for a reason.


AthleteDoc7 said:
So guys I don't post here often, but I have a bit of a decision to make here and hoped you all could help me. I will do my best to explain my predicament concisely.

I applied this cycle broadly to both MD and DO programs, and have been fortunate enough to gain admission to a bunch of great DO programs. Despite having 9 MD interviews, I have yet to get into any of them. I am waitlisted at 6 and waiting to hear back from a few.

Stony Brook Med, however, has accepted me into a program where I do a one year Masters program (FREE TUITION AND LIVING STIPEND!) and am guaranteed a spot in their med school for the following year if I successfully complete it meeting the minimum requirements (which I believe is a 3.0 average).

It is possible I could get into another MD school in which I am no longer eligible for this program, which would be great, but if it comes down to DO vs. contingent MD acceptance, what the heck do I do?!? the DO school I would go to would be NYIT-COM if I don't get any other MD love (desperately hoping I do).

Basically, does anyone have any info on this program? is it worth the potential risk of not successfully completing the program and losing my spot? any insight?

Thank you all for any help you offer!
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OP, you should do what you can (within reason) to try and get into US MD school before exploring other options like DO. An extra year with free tuition and a stipend with guaranteed linkage that only requires a 3.0 GPA? Sounds like a no-brainer! Especially for someone who got so many MD interviews.

Good luck getting off the waitlists but if not plan B should definitely be the master's program (if it is in fact as you describe)

AlteredScale said:
If you ONLY want to do some sort of ROAD or IM residency in an extremely competitive program at places like BYU, MGH, Standford, NYP, UCSF, UofChicago, Northwestern...etc etc...then do the one year masters.

If you want to be a doc....then choose the DO school.

If you do the masters, you are losing one years salary as an attending physician.
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Dear premed - please stop posting "advice" about things you know nothing about. There are so many things wrong with this post it's disturbing you posted some version of this garbage TWICE (quoted the other instance below).
1. Regarding "ROAD" (which is an acronym, when used, exposes naivete and general lack of knowledge): If you know you want to go into anesthesia then just go DO. It's very DO friendly, easy to match into and getting easier.
2. What's BYU? Didn't know brigham young had a hospital let alone one with competitive residency programs :eyebrow:. I'm not going to tell you what acronym you actually meant but this makes it very clear that you have no clue what you're talking about.
3. The point is that the same application will get you farther and open way more doors if you're an MD. No need to list out random programs that may or may not exist. No pre-med knows what they want to do or where they want to go so if you have the choice to keep all your options open then go MD...period.
4. Your advice is generally very short-sighted. You don't build a career by taking shortcuts. The OP has a unique opportunity that could alter the course of his 40 year career! One year is absolutely meaningless in the grand scheme. The whole "attending salary" argument is equally ridiculous. Sure, if you're just in it to make a 6-figure salary then go through the motions with the least amount of time/effort and you'll get a job that you can treat like a chore, continue to go through the motions, and hopefully not hate it too much. But if you want a meaningful career without limiting yourself from the outset then put in the time and hard work now and you'll be rewarded in the future. It's always funny that the same people who make the "attending salary" argument are the ones that will crucify you for "going into medicine for the money".
5. In clinical medicine the first thing you need to learn is to admit that you don't know what you don't know. I hope you don't learn this the hard way.

AlteredScale said:
Competitive is a subjective term here. Do you mean IM at BYU, MGH, NYP, NYU, Stanford? If so then it will very hard to land those simply because they are extremely competitive even for MD graduates.
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Goro said:
Consider: Is getting the MD worth losing the lost year of revenue you'll make by graduating as a DO one year earlier?

Just because you'll have an MD doesn't mean that you'll be able to waltz into a peds Oncology or Nephrology residency. The competitive residencies are competitive for a reason.
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Peds oncology and nephrology are not residencies they are fellowships (after peds and IM respectively). Also funny you should mention nephrology as it is literally the easiest fellowship to obtain and you can just waltz into it as a DO from basically any program since there are more spots than applicants and a bunch of programs go unfilled.

The same advice I gave to the pre-med above about not commenting on things they know nothing about also applies to you. Stick to giving advice about med school applications and the pre-clinical years. Anything past that is beyond your knowledge and you just end up sounding like a paid spokesman for DO schools (which you basically are in that case). It doesn't help that your argument for going DO sounds a lot like a get rich quick scheme.
 
OP I think you are mistaken. There are only a couple of SMP's with linkages, and this is not one of them. Since you have not specified which masters program you are talking about exactly I can only assume it is this one:
http://www.stonybrook.edu/spd/prehealth/faqs.html
Please provide a link. Anyway, unless this is some extraordinarily rare agreement between you and the med school I wouldn't get too excited. By the way, even the SMP's with linkage do not guarantee admittance; no SMP in the country will offer you such security. A guarantee for an interview is a much more likely outcome.
Cheers
 
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However if you are correct in all of your assumptions, then it sounds like a great opportunity, if you are really that stuck on MD.
 
Guys, the OP is 100% accurate in what he is describing. I got offered this exact same program by email yesterday and will be interviewing for it soon. it honestly sounds like an incredible opportunity but I'm unsure of all of the criteria (won't get all the info until the interview).

OP, sounds like we are in a very similar situation. I'm also praying to get into one of many other MD schools, but if it comes down to DO or this program, idk what I'm gonna do! will be following this thread


EDIT: why is the default to always assume everyone is making stuff up or exaggerating? haha, gotta <3 SDN
 
To me, this looks like you have your choice between admission to medical school or a chance to win admission to medical school. As a risk-averse ignorant pre-med, I'd take the admission to medical school unless I really hated NYIT-COM during the interview there. Here's my rationale- first, we don't know what kind of success rate this program has. Most masters' programs are easy, but most masters' programs aren't linkage programs to medical school. Five students get guaranteed linkage, but how many students are in the program? Five? Six? Twenty? A hundred? If only 10% of the class gets linkage, is it really worth it? Some MD programs look down on people who were offered a DO acceptance but turned it down to reapply.

That program as the TC describes it sounds too good to be true, which makes me think that it is.
 
DoctorLacrosse said:
Guys, the OP is 100% accurate in what he is describing. I got offered this exact same program by email yesterday and will be interviewing for it soon. it honestly sounds like an incredible opportunity but I'm unsure of all of the criteria (won't get all the info until the interview).

OP, sounds like we are in a very similar situation. I'm also praying to get into one of many other MD schools, but if it comes down to DO or this program, idk what I'm gonna do! will be following this thread


EDIT: why is the default to always assume everyone is making stuff up or exaggerating? haha, gotta <3 SDN
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well I'm thankful someone can backup my story, good luck with the interview!
 
DoctorLacrosse said:
Guys, the OP is 100% accurate in what he is describing. I got offered this exact same program by email yesterday and will be interviewing for it soon. it honestly sounds like an incredible opportunity but I'm unsure of all of the criteria (won't get all the info until the interview).

OP, sounds like we are in a very similar situation. I'm also praying to get into one of many other MD schools, but if it comes down to DO or this program, idk what I'm gonna do! will be following this thread


EDIT: why is the default to always assume everyone is making stuff up or exaggerating? haha, gotta <3 SDN
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I am not doubting your guy's sincerity. However there are users on SDN, such as DrMidlife, who have spent years researching SMP's and I have never once heard this program mentioned.
 
If this is the program, it really doesn't look very good at all: It sounds like it just saves you a year:

http://www.stonybrook.edu/spd/prehealth/faqs.html


12. What is the Linkage Program?

The Linkage Program is designed for Stony Brook Post-Bac students only and can mitigate the need for a "gap year" in the applications process for applicants to the Stony Brook School of Medicine. Students who take the MCAT in April usually enter medical school in the following "gap year." Linkage students take the MCAT in April and, if accepted, may enter the Stony Brook School of Medicine in the fall of the same year. Once nominated, the applicant must still compete with all applicants to the medical school. The Stony Brook Faculty Committee on Health Professions can nominate up to five students for linkage; the medical school is under no obligation to accept any of them.
 
Please provide us a link, or the name of the program at the very least. If you are correct, this is something more people should know about.
Thanks
 
ZedsDed said:
Please provide us a link, or the name of the program at the very least. If you are correct, this is something more people should know about.
Thanks
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there is no link as you can't just apply for it. this is something the school chooses you for if they believe it is something that could benefit you (says it is a funded program through some New York association). I'm also a URM with a strong app besides my GPA, so that may have something to do with me being offered it. I don't know for sure until I interview.
 
AthleteDoc7 said:
info just keeps getting posted about a program that isn't the program I'm talking about. clearly this isn't something that many people know details about so ill just have to come to my own decision. thanks anyway everyone, good luck
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good luck to you too OP. please PM me when you get more info/decide
 
AthleteDoc7 said:
info just keeps getting posted about a program that isn't the program I'm talking about. clearly this isn't something that many people know details about so ill just have to come to my own decision. thanks anyway everyone, good luck
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The OP is not lying about this program. The following is a link that contains a similiar program that is offered to rejected students. Scroll down for Stony Brook Masters Program:

http://www.amsny.org/initiatives/diversity-medicine/post-baccalaureate-program

Also, I am aware that requirements is different than what OP said. However, it is definitely possible for SB and other schools to alter the requirements of the program.

OP, my suggestion still stands that you ought to choose this program if you do not gain any acceptance at other MD schools. The amount that you will save by not attending NYIT will be more than a year of attending salary. Furthermore, you suggest that SB is a top choice for you. If you are a traditional student, taking this year off to gain a masters may not be a bad thing.

Congrats on getting offered this program. Please do not be frustrated, these type of offers are very infrequent, therefore it cause some apprehension in others.
 
tdubst said:
The OP is not lying about this program. The following is a link that contains a similiar program that is offered to rejected students. Scroll down for Stony Brook Masters Program:

http://www.amsny.org/initiatives/diversity-medicine/post-baccalaureate-program

Also, I am aware that requirements is different than what OP said. However, it is definitely possible for SB and other schools to alter the requirements of the program.

OP, my suggestion still stands that you ought to choose this program if you do not gain any acceptance at other MD schools. The amount that you will save by not attending NYIT will be more than a year of attending salary. Furthermore, you suggest that SB is a top choice for you. If you are a traditional student, taking this year off to gain a masters may not be a bad thing.

Congrats on getting offered this program. Please do not be frustrated, these type of offers are very infrequent, therefore it cause some apprehension in others.
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I'll say for the second time, that no one is accusing the OP of lying. Posters make incorrect claims all the time (especially in this forum), and suspicion is normal. The OP was offered salient advice by some prominent users. Don't be so thin-skinned please.
 
ZedsDed said:
Please provide us a link, or the name of the program at the very least. If you are correct, this is something more people should know about.
Thanks
Click to expand...

I hope this helps.

The following is a link that contains a similiar program that is offered to students. Scroll down for Stony Brook Masters Program:

http://www.amsny.org/initiatives/diversity-medicine/post-baccalaureate-program

Also, I am aware that requirements is different than what OP said. However, it is definitely possible for SB and other schools to alter the requirements of the program.
 
If you're confident in your ability (maintaining a graduate GPA is easier than an undergraduate GPA), then definitely go the masters+SB route than the NYCOM route if you want to keep all your doors wide open. If your goal is more primary-care oriented, or you don't wish to stay in academics, then the DO route is more or less equal.
 
SouthernSurgeon said:
Agreed.

The reason people keep questioning this is because it is (a) unusual and (b) the advice we give will differ drastically.

I would 100% advise the OP to do this program if it as he has described.

If however the OP has misunderstood the nature of the program I would feel terrible having advised him to give up a seat in medical school ...
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I agree with these legitimate concerns as well. That is why I was the first to post the incorrect link initially.

And yes, IF the only requirement is the 3.0 gpa then this program is definitely a great option. One that I would highly suggest to accept if no other MD programs offer acceptance.
 
as someone in a similar situation who was also offered this program, I want to say thank you all for the info.

the only thing the OP might be incorrect about are 1. the requirements (I don't even know what they are yet, though they admit they aren't positive about the 3.0 either) and 2. having already been accepted to the program (as I'm not sure acceptances have gone out for it yet, maybe they're jumping the gun in order to get opinions?)

Everything else is as they said. They have to be interested in you and invite you for it, then once you're in you get the masters for free, then if you meet the requirements, you're guaranteed a seat. I still think this might just be for students with a strong app other than the GPA so they can be sure you can handle med school, then you're in after. Once I get more info at my interview, I'll try to give more insight.
 
So I found out more info on the program. looks like SBU has to choose you to do it and it may be based on increasing diversity in health care (other NY schools have similar programs as well with their own admissions process).

you have to maintain a 3.3 and finish the degree, as well as achieve at least a 500 on the MCAT (it was updated so idk what that equivalent is on the old MCAT scoring scale). once you finish, you're guaranteed a spot.
 
a 500 is 50th percentile BTW. if it's true that all you need is a 3.3 and a 500, and were guaranteed acceptance, i would go with this program over a DO acceptance. but i'm a vain person and would want the MD :shrugs:
 
A 500 will be equivalent to a 24. The difference is there are 4 sections with 125 being "average" instead of 3 sections with 8 being average. Hitting a 500 seems relatively easy for someone that is a legitimate candidate for MD schools.

I also interviewed at a similar program at DMU a few years ago. There was no application, i was rejected from their COM, but I was a strong applicant that contacted them to ask how to improve my app and they invited me to interview. I was rejected from that program as well. Point is they exist, no one here's about them though because there's no way to apply.
 
Stagg737 said:
A 500 will be equivalent to a 24. The difference is there are 4 sections with 125 being "average" instead of 3 sections with 8 being average. Hitting a 500 seems relatively easy for someone that is a legitimate candidate for MD schools.

I also interviewed at a similar program at DMU a few years ago. There was no application, i was rejected from their COM, but I was a strong applicant that contacted them to ask how to improve my app and they invited me to interview. I was rejected from that program as well. Point is they exist, no one here's about them though because there's no way to apply.
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exactly! thank you for wording that in a way people would understand lol... but yeah, if if comes down to DO or this program for me (assuming I don't just get rejected which is possible), I'll have a decision to make.
 
i don't know anything about the stony brook "we're not accepting you for MD, yet" program. there are plenty of med schools that have private feeder programs for instaters who are borderline. that's the bread & butter of diversity recruiting.

with a 3.0 min performance i suspect the program is URM. when things sound too good to be true, check URM.

when programs claim an acceptance on the other side, check the fine print. get it in writing. hearsay is your enemy.

anecdote: one SMP that i know too well doubled its class size and threw away its reputation without telling the students who were accepted to the incoming class, until the first day of school, after many had moved cross country. don't let this happen to you.

the financial math for the OP's story works in SB's favor, even if 2 years are "lost" to future income. I'd recommend a gap year and a retry over $52k tuition regardless. better yet, go back in time and think about what you want and what things cost before you apply to expensive private DO schools in the first place.

lastly, y'all stop blathering about how hard or not hard it is to get from a DO school into a residency. it's adorable that premeds think IM is hard to get into. if you want to be a DO with a good residency, spend 20 hours studying for every 15 minutes you spend looking at current resident lists at residency programs in your specialty of interest. THERE ARE DOs ALMOST EVERYWHERE. Odds are good that a future DO will get your spot at the residency you want because he or she IS STUDYING HARDER THAN YOU ARE RIGHT NOW.

presumably this is a low GPA thread. you can't blame a DO school for limiting your chances if you get crap step scores and crap grades in med school. it doesn't matter if you are MD or DO: you won't match well with crap numbers. there are a whole lot of first year med students, MD and DO, who talk a whole lot of ortho and derm, and then they get real quiet after step 1.

Don't fear DO, fear your own future performance. DOs matched "MD" residencies at 79% this year. MDs and DOs who have aspirations proportional to their capabilities, don't have crap numbers, and apply broadly, are going to match. Be smart and fear your med school performance. An acceptance is not a gift. Med school is harder than you think.

best of luck to you.
 
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There is nothing wrong with being a DO. The fact is that there are more opportunities available to you for GME if you're an MD. Theres really no reason for people to get emotional about it. I kind of see where Dr. Midlife is coming from. It wouldn't be far fetched to say that a lot of DO students are self limiting, given the lower academic standards of the DO degree.

That being said, there is evidence of bias in certain fields and programs, regardless of student performance. As a disclaimer, I'm a DO student, although that shouldn't matter when looking at things objectively.

And as an aside, I'm also an AA, and I find the idea of DO discrimination to be a laughable, silver spoonfed-child, first world problem. My future profession is looking good, regardless of my degree. Brb, on my high horse the next 3 years before I lol my way to the bank.
 
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