Do orthodontic residencies know where else you apply?

[BraseYourself]

Good afternoon everyone,

First time posting here. I am interested in applying to orthodontic residencies for the class starting in 2018. I graduated in 2014 and am currently serving in the military, but will be finished with my commitment next year. I am preparing my applications and a few of the schools (Iowa, Indiana, UNC, VCU, and maybe more) require you to only apply to MATCH programs. The problem is, one of my first choices is a non-match program. I do not know what to do and need some advice. Is there a way for the schools to find out what other programs you apply to? I have read that some people just apply to both anyways, but I really don't want to be dishonest. At the same time, if I apply to the non-match school I really like, it decreases the amount of other schools I want to apply to significantly. I only planned on applying to about 15, and at least 4 of them require you to only apply to MATCH schools. There doesn't appear to be any posts about this more recent than 2010 and I know this rule about only applying to MATCH just recently occurred in the last year or two. Any advice is much appreciated.

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[SchwarzKorkhaus]

I am unaware of any rules that prohibit applicants from applying to non-Match schools if they participate in the Match program.
Being accepted is a different matter. If you are matched to a school in the Match program, you are obligated to accept that position.

Good afternoon everyone,

First time posting here. I am interested in applying to orthodontic residencies for the class starting in 2018. I graduated in 2014 and am currently serving in the military, but will be finished with my commitment next year. I am preparing my applications and a few of the schools (Iowa, Indiana, UNC, VCU, and maybe more) require you to only apply to MATCH programs. The problem is, one of my first choices is a non-match program. I do not know what to do and need some advice. Is there a way for the schools to find out what other programs you apply to? I have read that some people just apply to both anyways, but I really don't want to be dishonest. At the same time, if I apply to the non-match school I really like, it decreases the amount of other schools I want to apply to significantly. I only planned on applying to about 15, and at least 4 of them require you to only apply to MATCH schools. There doesn't appear to be any posts about this more recent than 2010 and I know this rule about only applying to MATCH just recently occurred in the last year or two. Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[BraseYourself]

I am unaware of any rules that prohibit applicants from applying to non-Match schools if they participate in the Match program.
Being accepted is a different matter. If you are matched to a school in the Match program, you are obligated to accept that position.

The programs I listed all say this "Faculty in the University of North Carolina Department Of Orthodontics feel that residency program participation in the Postdoctoral Dental Matching Program is fair and beneficial to applicants. We also feel that it is in the long-term best interest of the specialty. Consequently, we have decided to interview applicants who are applying exclusively to programs participating in the Match." They also have a letter that you have to sign saying you will only apply to MATCH schools. The fact that you have to physically sign a letter saying you won't apply to non-MATCH schools makes it seem pretty serious. I believe it is something new that started this year, since no one else is talking about it.

 

[SchwarzKorkhaus]

Wow. Yes, that does sound quite serious. And seems a bit unfair. But I would suggest playing by their rules especially if you have to sign something.

The programs I listed all say this "Faculty in the University of North Carolina Department Of Orthodontics feel that residency program participation in the Postdoctoral Dental Matching Program is fair and beneficial to applicants. We also feel that it is in the long-term best interest of the specialty. Consequently, we have decided to interview applicants who are applying exclusively to programs participating in the Match." They also have a letter that you have to sign saying you will only apply to MATCH schools. The fact that you have to physically sign a letter saying you won't apply to non-MATCH schools makes it seem pretty serious. I believe it is something new that started this year, since no one else is talking about it.

 

[Str82th]

Many programs are moving to match only.

 

[Biffster]

They should find ways to put pressure on the non-match programs that don't put applicants in such an awkward position. They are really tightening the screws with an agreement you are asked to sign. The AAO could do many other things to ratchet up the pressure on non-match programs. How about charging faculty and residents a huge amount of money to register for the AAO annual session? Blackball non-match programs from participating in the annual session. I don't know. These are just a few random thoughts. Point is that the applicants shouldn't be caught in the middle like this.

 

[BraseYourself]

They should find ways to put pressure on the non-match programs that don't put applicants in such an awkward position. They are really tightening the screws with an agreement you are asked to sign. The AAO could do many other things to ratchet up the pressure on non-match programs. How about charging faculty and residents a huge amount of money to register for the AAO annual session? Blackball non-match programs from participating in the annual session. I don't know. These are just a few random thoughts. Point is that the applicants shouldn't be caught in the middle like this.

I agree. It is really disappointing knowing I have to choose between applying to a non-match that I really like or not applying there and being able to apply to 4+ MATCH schools.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

I mean pound for the pound the non-match programs are larger classes with tuition, right? Jacksonville, Roseman, Seton Hill, Colorado, etc.

 

[BraseYourself]

I mean pound for the pound the non-match programs are larger classes with tuition, right? Jacksonville, Roseman, Seton Hill, Colorado, etc.

Well the two that I planned on applying to are actually smaller class sizes with a stipend, but yes I think in general the non-match are larger with a tuition. I won't be applying to those ones though. Did you have any advice on what to do? I feel like by being honest if no-one else is, I will be shooting myself in the foot.

 

[Str82th]

At this point, programs don't know. However, if you are granted an interview at a match program, and then drop match for one of the non-match, you've taken an opportunity to match from someone who would otherwise have a chance.

The non-match programs only get the high ranking students because they poach them before match results are released. The way it works, if you have three or more match interviews, you're pretty golden, unless you are a poor interviewer. Even the smart kids, with many interviews, are guilty of taking the bird in hand with non-match.

If you are not in the top 10%, or don't have a great application, then apply wherever you want. You would probably not make waves.

 

[BraseYourself]

At this point, programs don't know. However, if you are granted an interview at a match program, and then drop match for one of the non-match, you've taken an opportunity to match from someone who would otherwise have a chance.

The non-match programs only get the high ranking students because they poach them before match results are released. The way it works, if you have three or more match interviews, you're pretty golden, unless you are a poor interviewer. Even the smart kids, with many interviews, are guilty of taking the bird in hand with non-match.

If you are not in the top 10%, or don't have a great application, then apply wherever you want. You would probably not make waves.

I feel as though I do have a pretty strong application. I was in top 3% of my class of 173 students and did well on the GRE. I know that is not all that matters, but it is a good start I think. I have heard that it can sometimes hurt your application if you have been out of school for awhile, but I honestly don't know why that would be.

So if you were applying right now, would you sign the letters saying you won't apply to non-match schools, but then apply to them anyways? I have been told that directors share their application lists. Does anyone know if that is true? Since it seems like the MATCH programs have animosity towards non-match programs, I kind of find it hard to believe that they would share their lists, but I guess anything is possible since they are in sort of in competition. I don't want to blackball myself by doing something stupid, but i literally can not apply to 9 schools I planned on because they require you to sign a letter stating you will only apply to MATCH schools.

 

[Str82th]

I feel as though I do have a pretty strong application. I was in top 3% of my class of 173 students and did well on the GRE. I know that is not all that matters, but it is a good start I think. I have heard that it can sometimes hurt your application if you have been out of school for awhile, but I honestly don't know why that would be.

So if you were applying right now, would you sign the letters saying you won't apply to non-match schools, but then apply to them anyways? I have been told that directors share their application lists. Does anyone know if that is true? Since it seems like the MATCH programs have animosity towards non-match programs, I kind of find it hard to believe that they would share their lists, but I guess anything is possible since they are in sort of in competition. I don't want to blackball myself by doing something stupid, but i literally can not apply to 9 schools I planned on because they require you to sign a letter stating you will only apply to MATCH schools.

As a resident, familiar with many programs, I can't think of a single program that looks down on applicants who have been in practice. In fact, it is my understanding that some programs, Washington for example, prefer those applicants.

Add your achievement in dental school, I think you will have quite a few quality match interviews.

Ortho is a small community, but as far as match programs sharing applicant lists with non match, I just don't see that happening. However, I cannot know for sure.

 

[Munks]

Tough call. When I applied last year there were just a few programs starting to do that, and every year now it seems more and more programs are becoming 'match only' or 'non-match'. Overall it's a step in the right direction for the future, but like Biffster said it does put present-day applicants in an awkward position.

Just my two cents, there were more non-match programs I was interested in than the few match-only schools.. and even though I seriously doubt application lists are shared, I did go the honest/naive route and did not apply to those match-only schools.

If it were me, and I was only interested in one non-match school verses the 9 other match-only schools, I would probably choose to go with the match-only schools. Again just my 2c. Tough call.