Do people just love to complain or is med school really that much of a nightmare?

[Potentia Virtus]

Just because the "average" age is 24-25, doesn't mean the "typical" med student is 24 or 25. You have outliers in their 30's or more that push that number way up. If you assume that someone goes right through undergrad and graduates at 22-23, then applies and matriculates the following year, that doesn't really leave any time to work.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

It wasn't that bad in hindsight. Then again, that's just how I feel about most things.

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

Weird, I worked insane hours and took 18hr semesters (only the last year), so you have time to work full time in undergrad, though I dont recommend it.

 

[sunshinefl]

Weird, I worked insane hours and took 18hr semesters (only the last year), so you have time to work full time in undergrad, though I dont recommend it.

Not if one of your senior year goals was also to attend every single football game, home/away/neutral/conference championship/bowl game.

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

Not if one of your senior year goals was also to attend every single football game, home/away/neutral/conference championship/bowl game.

So true. I guess I should add you only have time for it if you're not a foolish frat type.

 

[deleted103644]

I'll be starting medical school in the fall and upon reading on some specialties and medicine in general, I constantly come across people who feel jaded by medicine and regret going to medical school. During my interviews I asked this question to all the students, is medical school really that bad? EVERYONE said no its not as bad as people claim! I even went with a medical student whom I knew from my town to a bar where all his friends from med school were and everyone was enjoying their time! Why is it that there is nothing optimistic about medical school and medicine in general online?
I know med school is not a walk in the park, and I'm going to be challenged in every single way imaginable, morally, intellectually, and emotionally. The journey to becoming a physician takes a lot of resilience. Are the people who are so pessimistic about medicine and love complain the ones who are in it for the wrong reason to begin with?
I might not know what I'm talking about since I haven't started yet, but I'd like to think that I'm in it for the right reason and I can't imagine that med school is so hellish to the point where I'll wish I didn't make the decision to become a physician.

Why can’t it be both?

 

[CazadorFalconry]

That's why I made sure to mention that the median age of matriculating medical students isn't right out of college.

I think the best stat here would be modal age at matriculation.

 

[Potentia Virtus]

So where did you get your "median?" As far as I know, AAMC data provides the mean matriculant age, which is 24 or 25, depending on the group. Matriculant age means that most applicants are 23-24.

 

[CazadorFalconry]

A mode would not tell you much. If there are 10 students in the class ages: 22, 22, 22, 24, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. The mode is 22, but the majority of students are 23+.

True but there will be some variation in graduating ages as well. Without a histogram it’s hard to interpret when most students start med school.

 

[Potentia Virtus]

Do you mind explaining the math because I don't see it?

Most people end college at 22 and the average starting age for med school is 25- that leaves a gap. The median matriculating student has had at least one year between college and med school, so most people in medical school nowadays have had at least one full year off. It's not rare for a 23 yr old college grad with a science degree to have a full-time job. There is no evidence that most likely the jobs are not full time. I'm not saying that people in college are working full time (though some do), but the majority of students aren't straight from college.

Most matriculating med students come from a cohort of employed workers (college educated, especially STEM majors, not in school for at least a year), so I don't think it's logical to claim that they are an exception to their peers and for some reason choosing to not work unless there is data to suggest that.

Moral of the story, saying most med students complain because they have never had a job is not a sufficient argument

And you said average, not median.

 

[Potentia Virtus]

I love how people always try to think they have the last word in a conversation and then bail. "Uh, this discussion is not worth further time." Ha ha, are you serious?
If you assume someone graduates at 22 and starts medical school at 23, I'm thinking most of their time is filled with applying to med schools, interviewing, and travelling, and then by getting ready to matriculate- finding a new apartment, moving to their new city, etc.
It's certainly possible to work a little in the mean time, maybe even "full time," for a brief period. But working forty hours a week with one foot out the door before medical school is a lot different than supporting yourself in a long term job/career and navigating all the crap that "real life" throws at you.
I don't expect a reply, since you're too busy.

 

[Knight in shining armor]

I just finished my first year of medical school. It was really hard but really rewarding. If you don’t absolutely love medicine and love people, medical school will be hell. However, if you truly want to be a doctor, it is 100% worth every anatomy lab practical, every late night or early morning studying session, every “missed social opportunity”. It is all worth it. I went on a medical missions trip to Guatemala a few weeks ago. And helping the patients I saw that week, it was worth it.

 

[Grainagainst]

working forty hours a week with one foot out the door before medical school is a lot different than supporting yourself in a long term job/career and navigating all the crap that "real life" throws at you.

+100

To me, it's a totally different thing to work a crappy job for 1 year while in the midst of applying to med schools, vs working a crappy job and thinking "this is my life until I retire". In the former situation it's so easy to let the nonsense roll off your back - you don't "need" the job, any money you make is pretty much superfluous, and there is light at the end of the tunnel. It's easy to just roll your eyes at your boss and coworkers because "whatever, they're all idiots and I'll be gone in a few months anyways", and not really take much away from the experience beyond contempt for the general public.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

I'll be starting medical school in the fall and upon reading on some specialties and medicine in general, I constantly come across people who feel jaded by medicine and regret going to medical school. During my interviews I asked this question to all the students, is medical school really that bad? EVERYONE said no its not as bad as people claim! I even went with a medical student whom I knew from my town to a bar where all his friends from med school were and everyone was enjoying their time! Why is it that there is nothing optimistic about medical school and medicine in general online?
I know med school is not a walk in the park, and I'm going to be challenged in every single way imaginable, morally, intellectually, and emotionally. The journey to becoming a physician takes a lot of resilience. Are the people who are so pessimistic about medicine and love complain the ones who are in it for the wrong reason to begin with?
I might not know what I'm talking about since I haven't started yet, but I'd like to think that I'm in it for the right reason and I can't imagine that med school is so hellish to the point where I'll wish I didn't make the decision to become a physician.

I hated the pre-clinical years, and if someone told me I’d have to repeat them or I could no longer be a doctor, I’d do something else, but the clinical years are overall pretty fantastic.

 

[doctorstrangerthingz]

Thank you all for your replies! I like hearing each one’s different experience and perspective. By extension, any of you feel like med school got in the way of your relationships? Even though it’s subjective and depends on the couple’s connection and level of understanding, but realistically, is there enough time to nurture and sustain a satisfying relationship?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Thank you all for your replies! I like hearing each one’s different experience and perspective. By extension, any of you feel like med school got in the way of your relationships? Even though it’s subjective and depends on the couple’s connection and level of understanding, but realistically, is there enough time to nurture and sustain a satisfying relationship?

This is possible if your partner is willing to sacrifice quality time with you for you to do well in school. There is time for date nights and whatnot, but definitely not as much time as either of you would like.

 

[Aerus]

I came into medical school at 23, so I've never had to work a full time job in order to make end's meet. I have not found medical school to be that bad yet, but I do complain a lot with my peers. Complaining is very cathartic and misery loves company, so I've actually grown pretty close with my friends here through complaining. I feel like part of the job description of a medical student is to complain.

 

[bananafish94]

These discussions always seem to be people talking about the two absolute extremes without allowing any room for middle ground. There's always somebody who says that medical students are a bunch of entitled millennials who have never worked a day in their life and have no right to complain about anything, and then the other side will say that medical school is a Lovecraftian hellscape.

I think that medical school is objectively hard and to say otherwise is disingenuous. You are under a high level of stress and expected to clear several extremely high-stakes hurdles, failure of which has the potential to leave with hundreds of thousands of debt and no prospects. That's a big deal. Of course, working a "conventional" job and supporting yourself and possibly a family is also hard. It's a different set of problems that pose different challenges to different people.

All that being said, I'm absolutely glad that I'm here. There have been some tough times, but overall it's been one of the best experiences of my life.

 

[raiderette]

Thank you all for your replies! I like hearing each one’s different experience and perspective. By extension, any of you feel like med school got in the way of your relationships? Even though it’s subjective and depends on the couple’s connection and level of understanding, but realistically, is there enough time to nurture and sustain a satisfying relationship?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Of my classmates, I have seen countless break ups, hook ups, divorces and even marriages. I, myself, met my partner while in med school. He is a cop, so he also has a crazy schedule and understands that I am not ignoring him when I am studying.

 

[sunshinefl]

So true. I guess I should add you only have time for it if you're not a foolish frat type.

I’m neither foolish, nor in a frat.

 

[smukke]

This thread makes me thankful that I’m an introvert and don’t “get my energy from being around other people.” I tend to be the opposite. Long stretches in large groups tires me out.

My favorite time in med school was dedicated time for Step 1/2. I had dedicated time during which I was in complete control, I could tell people off or not call/text people back without feeling guilty and I didn't have to talk to anyone unless I was really really motivated to. INTP
My worst time: M3/4 FM clinics with catered lunches. I couldn't even go eat lunch by myself

I think it’s hard if something goes wrong in your personal life. It’s not too bad if you can just be in your best mental state and focus... but if life acts up (illnesses, relationships, family stuff) it gets to be difficult to manage the life things and the Med school things without being horribly stressed.

That was the biggest challenge/change during M3/4 compared to working full time before med school. Not having control over your day to day schedule, not being able to say "I need a day. Peace out and don't burn the office down while I'm away". That plus the realization that it doesn't really matter if you're there or not, you're really not contributing anything useful.

 

[ciestar]

Thank you all for your replies! I like hearing each one’s different experience and perspective. By extension, any of you feel like med school got in the way of your relationships? Even though it’s subjective and depends on the couple’s connection and level of understanding, but realistically, is there enough time to nurture and sustain a satisfying relationship?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

It does because you don’t get as much time together as you’d want, but my husband is incredibly supportive and sacrifices a lot to make med school as easy as possible on me.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

These discussions always seem to be people talking about the two absolute extremes without allowing any room for middle ground. There's always somebody who says that medical students are a bunch of entitled millennials who have never worked a day in their life and have no right to complain about anything, and then the other side will say that medical school is a Lovecraftian hellscape.

I think that medical school is objectively hard and to say otherwise is disingenuous. You are under a high level of stress and expected to clear several extremely high-stakes hurdles, failure of which has the potential to leave with hundreds of thousands of debt and no prospects. That's a big deal. Of course, working a "conventional" job and supporting yourself and possibly a family is also hard. It's a different set of problems that pose different challenges to different people.

All that being said, I'm absolutely glad that I'm here. There have been some tough times, but overall it's been one of the best experiences of my life.

Such a reasonable perspective! Thank you for sharing.

I don't think it helps anyone to complain about complainers. I'd rather have people complain to me--as annoying at that can be--than to have them put on a happy (or unaffected) face, pretend everything is fine, and jump off the top of a hospital building or staircase to their death. Or drink or eat or smoke or __ excessively, which are other ways of masking pain that can lead to a long, slow decline in health.

It's healthy to feel sad and frustrated at times, and to express those negative feelings. When you vocalize frustration, it can stop the feelings from swirling around in your head, and can help you get needed emotional support from others. There's no shame acknowledging that this long grind is mentally taxing.

When you judge people based on the experiences you’ve had, you’re being very presumptuous. You haven’t walked in their shoes or lived their story. Other factors that aren’t directly related to medical school-related coursework that also affect happiness are whether you're close to family, you have an SO, how old you are (your expectations at 23 vs 30 can be very different), whether you've had a taste of success outside of medicine a.k.a. whether you realize what you're sacrificing by going to medical school, and whether you're in a rural town with nothing aside from the hospital vs. a metropolitan area in which you can build a social life outside of medical school. The last factor has been the hardest pill for me to swallow. I'm 30, and have had to put my life on hold in a sense since I'm in a small town with limited options for dating and socializing. I'm also in a class full of people with whom there's enough of an age difference that I don't always want to engage in their social scene. So it's the sense of missing out, compounded with the stress and loneliness of med school, that can get me down if I think too much about it.

That being said, I'm here, doing what I set out to do, working toward making a difference in how we care for patients on a systematic level, and nothing brings me more joy than that. If you have a purpose greater than yourself, you just have to continuously remind yourself of the end goal. "Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you; but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder." -Thoreau

 

[MSTPlease]

Med students LOVE to complain. Does that mean every complaint is baseless? Of course not, but my god do we love to complain.

 

[WingedOx]

Both.

 

[PharmlyDoc]

I’m a 4th year pharmacy student. Throughout my 4 years of undergrad I worked and held officer positions in university organizations. And throughout my second year of pharmacy school I worked at a prominent academic medical center that was a 2 hour drive away from school, thereafter have continued to work PRN at another community hospital which happens to be the second largest in the state I’m in.

Now that I’m on 4th year rotations I’ve been studying again in the academic medical center library, and everyone always seems stressed out. I understand but only to a certain point. Most med students don’t know how good they have it, nor how hard it is to navigate the hospital culture in terms of position and hierarchy.

Is there any data suggesting most med students haven't had a job or is that just a stereotype? The average age of an incoming med student is 24-25, so I'm going to call a bs on that claim. Most med students have had jobs.

Anyways, I worked 14hr day 5-6 days a week for 2 yrs. I still get tired out by this 6 day a week IM rotation. I always need to worry about my future and residency apps. I'm either in the hospital or studying and it is very isolating. When I worked 14hrs days, my time off was my own and there were no other responsibilities to manage, I had money, and all I had to worry about at work was getting things done and improving over time. Yes, there are much worse things in the world than med school, but there are still valid reasons to complain

Edit: In an 8-Hour Day, the Average Worker Is Productive for This Many Hours Medicine/nursing/MS3 are amongst the jobs where you always have stuff to do, are always working during the day, so even if you worked prior jobs, medicine is a new experience for many. Hell, I think if you took most non-clinical med school admins and had them work the schedule of a resident they would be complaining

 

[AsianPersuasion]

Definitely difficult but totally doable. Honestly, it's just hella annoying with random ass requirements and ridiculous expectations.

 

[GoCubsGo20]

People love to complain about everything. I’ll sure my own anecdotal information I’ve observed from classmates.

Med school is hard if you are a mediocre student with aspirations of becoming an orthopod.

 

[doctorstrangerthingz]

Why would most med students not know about navigating the hospital and hierarchy?

And this is also a "different strokes for different folks" type thing. I never get tired in hospital, even if I'm there 13+hrs and running around the whole time. Navigating the hospital and the hierarchy and dealing with argumentative hospital staff doesn't bother me. I complain when I have to sit alone and study after being in the hospital all day. Dealing with the isolation, constant worrying about not doing well enough to match my desired specialty, and the now over $200K in debt is what gets to me. I actually work extra because being in the hospital is the least stressful part of medical school for me

I feel like we are so much alike! This type of worry about future prospects and financials makes sense, but constantly complaining about the things you have to do at the hospital leads nowhere and makes it more dreadful. This is arguably a healthier complaining (as long as it’s in moderation)

 

[PharmlyDoc]

I should have worded that differently. Most medical students enter their hospital rotations, or their hospital in general, wearing their white coats from the beginning. Staff automatically think about you a certain way. Yes, some nurses will have a go at you because they can, but overall none of the general staff/ support employees will purposely give you a hard time.

Most don’t know what it’s like to start from the bottom, nor how working lower in the hierarchy makes others resent you when they find out what you’re in school for.

Why would most med students not know about navigating the hospital and hierarchy?

And this is also a "different strokes for different folks" type thing. I never get tired in hospital, even if I'm there 13+hrs and running around the whole time. Navigating the hospital and the hierarchy and dealing with argumentative hospital staff doesn't bother me. I complain when I have to sit alone and study after being in the hospital all day. Dealing with the isolation, constant worrying about not doing well enough to match my desired specialty, and the now over $200K in debt is what gets to me. I actually work extra because being in the hospital is the least stressful part of medical school for me

 

[threesparrows]

medical school is a Lovecraftian hellscape

I agree with this hyperbole, haha. I'm also in my early 30s, worked 60 hrs/week in another career for years before coming to medical school, and this is definitely the hardest thing I've ever done. My school fails people every year and once you encounter any academic difficulty you have the spectre of failure looming over you while your loans grow ever larger. Couldn't wait to get to third year where I thought my medical student job would be more straightforward, only to find now I have to learn medicine, please residents who are as immature as my classmates, AND study for shelf exams which are like mini Step exams every few weeks. I'm still holding out hope M4 will be better but applying to residency is stressful in itself. Complaining is cathartic at a time when most of us have little control over the basic conditions of our lives, despite having voluntarily signed up for all this.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I should have worded that differently. Most medical students enter their hospital rotations, or their hospital in general, wearing their white coats from the beginning. Staff automatically think about you a certain way. Yes, some nurses will have a go at you because they can, but overall none of the general staff/ support employees will purposely give you a hard time.

Most don’t know what it’s like to start from the bottom, nor how working lower in the hierarchy makes others resent you when they find out what you’re in school for.

You don’t think any of us worked minimum wage jobs where we were hesitant to disclose our med school aspirations for fear of creating feelings of resentment? Try working as a hospital transporter for $8.50 an hour, lifting heavy loads and cleaning stretchers all day, among middle-aged adults who did this work full time, and had been doing so for twenty years.

We have just as much of a right to complain as you do. We’re not in a competition with you pharmacy students to see who has it worse.

 

[Psai]

I’m a 4th year pharmacy student. Throughout my 4 years of undergrad I worked and held officer positions in university organizations. And throughout my second year of pharmacy school I worked at a prominent academic medical center that was a 2 hour drive away from school, thereafter have continued to work PRN at another community hospital which happens to be the second largest in the state I’m in.

Now that I’m on 4th year rotations I’ve been studying again in the academic medical center library, and everyone always seems stressed out. I understand but only to a certain point. Most med students don’t know how good they have it, nor how hard it is to navigate the hospital culture in terms of position and hierarchy.

Not sure how the first paragraph is related to the second but no one cares

 

[coffeebythelake]

to just make it through and pass is not difficult. Pass = MD
to excel and do better than your peers can be difficult.

 

[QueenJames]

My parents are not physicians and yes I have had to work under somebody else and take orders.

Med school still sucks ass.