DO Radiology

[digitlnoize]

Hello everyone.

I am wondering if anyone here has experience with having gone to DO school then specializing in rads. I am currently applying and have 1 DO acceptance and 1 MD waitlist. I am very, very interested in rads (yes, I've shadowed a bunch) and am trying to plan for my future.

I know that DO's tend to do primary care. I also know that there are a bunch of DO radiologists that have done either DO or MD residencies.

Do any of you have experiences of your own, or your residents/colleagues you could share with me?

Thanks!

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[time md]

I was wandering the same thing digitlnoize. I have not applied to med school yet but will next year, and a DO school just opened near my home so I am giving osteopathy a serious consideration. From what I understand osteopathic radiology residencies are competitive but so are allopathic ones. If any of you guys have advice it will trully be appreciated.

 

[(nicedream)]

Just like in any field, being an MD applicant makes things easier, but it can be done as a DO and regularly is.

For DO programs you're severely restricted in geography (Midwest) and they tend to be much more selective than allopathic programs because of the tiny number of spots (around 20/year). They are all community programs in smaller hospitals.

There are certain allopathic programs that won't even look at you if you're a DO, just like in any specialty. Half of the rest will probably want to see more from you compared to the MD applicants, and the other half will treat you fairly.

If I were you I would go allopathic just to prevent the headaches and stress. If you do go to DO school, you still have a great shot at radiology.

By the way, the term "osteopathy" is no longer used.

 

[digitlnoize]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'm still hoping someone can give me some feedback regarding first hand experiences...either as DO rads residents (in DO or MD redencies) or working with DO rads residents...

Anyone?

Thanks

 

[ScooterBanks]

It's definitely possible to do an allopathic radiology residency program as a DO. Plenty of DO's match every year, and many to very good programs. That being said, it's a much more difficult road getting there going the DO pathway rather than the MD. If you have really good grades and step scores (AOA or 240+), you are going to get in regardless of being DO or MD. The disadvantage of being a DO will come in that non-AOA 220-240 category where many people fall. Right or wrong, there are biases that favor the MD track with "average" radiology candidates. All things being equal, the MD is usally going to get the spot first in that situation. That being said, I would think it would be a safer bet to try and go the MD pathway if possible if you knew you definitely wanted to do radiology since there is no way of predicting how you will perform in school and on the step tests. At the same time, if you do end up going DO, keep a good attitude about things and don't get down about not being able to do radiology because it's still very attainable.

My program has no DOs so I can't speak to how they are as radiology residents. However, I remember there were several DO's in my intern program and most all of them were extremely bright people who had no problem holding their own with the MD's. I remember two specifically who were among the top residents at the hospital in terms of intelligence and competency.

 

[mojophat]

I was wandering the same thing digitlnoize. I have not applied to med school yet but will next year, and a DO school just opened near my home so I am giving osteopathy a serious consideration. From what I understand osteopathic radiology residencies are competitive but so are allopathic ones. If any of you guys have advice it will trully be appreciated.

do yourself a favor and go to a M.D. program. you will automatically be more competitive for any field, radiology or otherwise, than your D.O. companions (this in no way means M.D. kids are smarter...just more competitive).

 

[digitlnoize]

do yourself a favor and go to a M.D. program.

If only it were that easy. So far, I've gotten 1 MD interview and been waitlisted there. I've been accepted at 1 DO school. This thread is more to get some data on how hard it will be if I wind up going to DO route. I know it will be harder...but how much harder?

 

[mojophat]

If only it were that easy. So far, I've gotten 1 MD interview and been waitlisted there. I've been accepted at 1 DO school. This thread is more to get some data on how hard it will be if I wind up going to DO route. I know it will be harder...but how much harder?

36%

no, i don't really know how much harder, but i think it's not worth it if you're dead set on rads.

however, things change...i wanted to go into peds before i went to med school! so, maybe you'll change your mind once you start doing clerkships.

i just feel like you leave your options much more open if you go to a M.D. program...and i love keeping my options open.

 

[digitlnoize]

36%

That's exactly the answer I was looking for!!!

I know the statistics about med students changing their mind, but I don't really fit any statistics ever...I'm 29, with a family...second career guy here...

That being said, I've shadowed or worked in a wide variety of fields including rads, ER, pediatrics, surgery, anestheisiology, cardiology, path, neurosurg, ortho, internal medicine, and family practice...and my favorite by far has been rads.

I know that might change, but right now that's where I'm headed. I am pretty sure I will pick any MD school that takes me over a DO (although I do really like the DO school that took me), but since I don't know if that will happen...gotta plan for the worst...

Thanks for the help.

 

[OHMAN0125]

That's exactly the answer I was looking for!!!

I know the statistics about med students changing their mind, but I don't really fit any statistics ever...I'm 29, with a family...second career guy here...

That being said, I've shadowed or worked in a wide variety of fields including rads, ER, pediatrics, surgery, anestheisiology, cardiology, path, neurosurg, ortho, internal medicine, and family practice...and my favorite by far has been rads.

I know that might change, but right now that's where I'm headed. I am pretty sure I will pick any MD school that takes me over a DO (although I do really like the DO school that took me), but since I don't know if that will happen...gotta plan for the worst...

Thanks for the help.

Aren't there osteopathic Radiology residencies? Are they extremely competitive to get into?

 

[digitlnoize]

Aren't there osteopathic Radiology residencies? Are they extremely competitive to get into?

There are DO rads residencies, and they are about as competive as the MD residencies. Someone posted above that it's harder to get a job if you do a DO rads residency...that you'll want to do an MD fellowship after the DO residency. I don't know how true that is though...I'm waiting for more feedback.

 

[DrMom]

Our Rads grads certainly don't have any trouble getting jobs.

 

[digitlnoize]

Thanks DrMom. That really helps!

 

[SquidDoc]

There are DO rads residencies, and they are about as competive as the MD residencies. Someone posted above that it's harder to get a job if you do a DO rads residency...that you'll want to do an MD fellowship after the DO residency. I don't know how true that is though...I'm waiting for more feedback.

Harder to get a job? Who told you that?

Most DO or MD radiology grads do allopathic fellowships because 99.99% of radiology fellowships are at allopathic institutions, and nearly every rads grad does a fellowship sooner or later.
-b

 

[Neuronix]

nearly every rads grad does a fellowship sooner or later.

That's not at all what the residents here are telling me. My understanding is that most Radiology residents don't go to fellowship.

 

[Dr.Dicky]

I'm currently an intern in a DO rads residency in MI. Most of the people from my program, and other senior residents that I know, are heading into fellowships.

I know one resident that is sticking with diagnostic, and made his decision based on a waiting job. So, to answer the other question, I am not aware of a single DO radiologist that has had trouble landing a sweet job.

DO rads spots are considered competitive, only due to the lack of spots. Most students hedge their bets by applying osteo and allo, and taking what they get. Just study hard, and do well on boards. And if you have a family, don't listen to that crap. I have two children, and they have never caused a problem.

And digitl...you know the saying "A bird in hand"...

Good luck, rads is an awesome field, however you get in to it.👍

 

[SquidDoc]

That's not at all what the residents here are telling me. My understanding is that most Radiology residents don't go to fellowship.

If you click through a number of radiology residency websites and view where the newly boarded radiologists go after residency, you will likely see the majority going on to fellowship. Of the places where I applied (only university-based osteopathic and allopathic), this was true of every program.

 

[Neuronix]

You're right. My bad.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/reprint/174/5/1211.pdf (~80% into fellowships for 1999/2000)

 

[digitlnoize]

I'm currently an intern in a DO rads residency in MI. Most of the people from my program, and other senior residents that I know, are heading into fellowships.

I know one resident that is sticking with diagnostic, and made his decision based on a waiting job. So, to answer the other question, I am not aware of a single DO radiologist that has had trouble landing a sweet job.

DO rads spots are considered competitive, only due to the lack of spots. Most students hedge their bets by applying osteo and allo, and taking what they get. Just study hard, and do well on boards. And if you have a family, don't listen to that crap. I have two children, and they have never caused a problem.

And digitl...you know the saying "A bird in hand"...

Good luck, rads is an awesome field, however you get in to it.👍

Thank you. This is an encouraging post.

 

[f_w]

You're right. My bad.

http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/reprint/174/5/1211.pdf (~80% into fellowships for 1999/2000)

Those data are certainly outdated and a hangover of the time when radiology jobs where tight (mid 90s) and doing a fellowship was necessary to kill time and become more competitive.

Right now, the numbers are more in the 50% range, and most fellowships are not particularly competitive (exception MSK and MRI).

And:
- Yes DO's do get allo rad residencies
- after you are ABR certified, nobody gives a s$$* how you got there

 

[ericdopt]

I'm in a DO residency and love it. Yes, overall very competitive, but not unlike the allo spots. Many fewer spots to chose from and most of those are in Michigan. I relocated and don't regret it. My scores were good, but not fantastic. I'm also a "second career guy" and feel that my previous experience helped me land a gig. As for fellowships, yes most residents do one that I've talked to, but obviously not necessary. The job market is good, but tightening up. Who knows what'll happen in the future. I chose this because I love it and couldn't do anything else. The work is demanding and there is a ton of reading (never knew you had to know so much when I was a student).
As for kids, I agree, they don't get in the way if you allocate your time efficiently.
Also, I know of no DO radiologist hurting for jobs.

Good luck!

 

[(nicedream)]

Since this thread has touched on fellowships and jobs now, FYI to people reading this board and not AuntMinnie, the ABR is supposedly changing their examination process starting with entering Class of 2009 so that board certification would not come until 15 months following graduation from residency. That would mean graduates would be essentially required to do a fellowship - and the job market would possibly be primed in 2013 after practices have to freeze for a year.

 

[f_w]

http://www.theabr.org/News_ExamOfFuture.htm

Practices won't have to stop hiring. Just like in any other specialty, new radiologists will have the customary 2 years to get board certified.

It will however lock out most people from 1 year to partnership positions that are typical in all but the most competitive markets right now.

 

[(nicedream)]

http://www.theabr.org/News_ExamOfFuture.htm

Practices won't have to stop hiring. Just like in any other specialty, new radiologists will have the customary 2 years to get board certified.

It will however lock out most people from 1 year to partnership positions that are typical in all but the most competitive markets right now.

Won't it be difficult to impossible to work in private practice radiology while studying for a board exam?

 

[f_w]

Won't it be difficult to impossible to work in private practice radiology while studying for a board exam?

People will probably have to take a month or two of leave of absence. Various ways how that can be handled, either you don't draw a salary during that time or your regular annual income gets reduced by 1/n-months and paid out during your LOA. Again, not any different from a neurologist or orthopedic surgeon who has to take his oral boards 2 years in (one of the reasons why there are quite a number of non-boarded neurosurgeons out there).

 

[0350408]

Just thought I'd add some Q's. I'm a registered Rad. Tech right now and have interviewed at a couple of places awaiting word. What is the path to Radiology for a D.O.? Which year do you start looking for Residencies, then what year do you apply, then is there an internship prior? If you do an MD res do you have an MD internship post DO graduation prior to the residency? or is it a DO internship? If some of you guys going through it could kind of lay out your calendar that would be awesome...👍

 

[f_w]

You can do a DO or MD internship.

I don't know whether this has changed in the interim, but some 5 states osteopathic boards require a DO rotating internship in order to license you. So unless you will never ever practice in any of those states, you have to do the DO.

If you do an MD residency and receive your board certification through the ABR, the DO internship is fully recognized.

Don't know how it works for the DO rads residencies.

 

[(nicedream)]

If you do a DO residency, the internship is included at the same program with no separate match. The application process/timeline is the same as for MDs, except that the timeline for DO residencies is slightly earlier. Applications for DO programs open in July of your 4th year, while the MD apps open Sep. 1. Interviews are conducted during the same time period, and Match Day for DO programs is in Feb. while for MD programs it is in March. Probably a good idea to start looking at programs to see your top choices late in 2nd year, so you can schedule away rotations. No need to start looking at programs in earnest and deciding where to apply until early 4th year.

 

[0350408]

Thanks for the info guys, that stuff helps...👍

 

[radtek66]

There is still a stigma with DO's in my neck of the woods....everyone prefers an MD....doesn't mean DOs don't know what they are doing. However, DO radiologists I have worked with have been very intelligent but find it difficult to deal with patients and are just....eccentric? putting it mildly.😀

 

[mig2k]

There is still a stigma with DO's in my neck of the woods....everyone prefers an MD....doesn't mean DOs don't know what they are doing. However, DO radiologists I have worked with have been very intelligent but find it difficult to deal with patients and are just....eccentric? putting it mildly.😀

Thats not saying much. Most (all) radiologist hate/suck dealing with patients. Why did you think we chose radiology? If I was interested in patient care, I would have chosen family or something.

People will always be biased against something. Its human nature. At the end of the day, my paycheck is just as big if not bigger than the next guy's.

 

[radtek66]

Thats not saying much. Most (all) radiologist hate/suck dealing with patients. Why did you think we chose radiology? If I was interested in patient care, I would have chosen family or something.

People will always be biased against something. Its human nature. At the end of the day, my paycheck is just as big if not bigger than the next guy's.

I have worked with some genuinely caring radiologists---strictly coincidence, they are MDs---actually touch patients, take time with them when they need a few extra minutes, or just to chat with them as human beings.....and not make the patient feel like they are bringing down their efficiency percentages.

It's a good thing you did choose radiology. Your paycheck is big because you have the support staff to deal with patients for you. Did you buy them lunch for tech week?

 

[SquidDoc]

There is still a stigma with DO's in my neck of the woods....everyone prefers an MD....doesn't mean DOs don't know what they are doing. However, DO radiologists I have worked with have been very intelligent but find it difficult to deal with patients and are just....eccentric? putting it mildly.😀

Having only 3 posts on SDN, I was wondering...did you join just to post on this thread? If so, what was your motivation? If there is a stigma against DO's in your neck of the woods, I would like to know what woods to avoid. I find it very annoying that anyone would be ignorant enough to foster any sort of bias against DOs or MDs for that matter. Normally the only people who have any bias against one or the other are premeds that do not know any better and are competing for the most competitive med school seats in the nation. The two types of physicians in this country have interbred, and it is often hard to tell the difference from one or the other these days. On the west coast, there are only 2 DO schools, and despite being incredibly out-numbered, nobody seems to care what your 2 letters are behind your name.

As another example, do you know if your dentist is a DDS or a DMD? I have no idea about mine, and I could care less...that guy can fill a tooth like no other, and that is all that matters to me.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

As another example, do you know if your dentist is a DDS or a DMD? I have no idea about mine, and I could care less...that guy can fill a tooth like no other, and that is all that matters to me.

While I agree that a bias shouldn't really exist as some of the best docs I have seen have been DO's it is completely wrong to try to compare MD and DOs with DMDs and DDS. DOs and MDs have slightly different approaches to their medical education (and this is something the DOs really harp on about) while the DMD and DDS schools follow the same general formula and vary only based on individual school philosophy and not degree philosophy.

 

[radtek66]

Having only 3 posts on SDN, I was wondering...did you join just to post on this thread? If so, what was your motivation? If there is a stigma against DO's in your neck of the woods, I would like to know what woods to avoid. I find it very annoying that anyone would be ignorant enough to foster any sort of bias against DOs or MDs for that matter. Normally the only people who have any bias against one or the other are premeds that do not know any better and are competing for the most competitive med school seats in the nation. The two types of physicians in this country have interbred, and it is often hard to tell the difference from one or the other these days. On the west coast, there are only 2 DO schools, and despite being incredibly out-numbered, nobody seems to care what your 2 letters are behind your name.

As another example, do you know if your dentist is a DDS or a DMD? I have no idea about mine, and I could care less...that guy can fill a tooth like no other, and that is all that matters to me.

Well, my neck of the woods is Indiana, so you probably won't have to worry about being here if you are on the WC. The bias to which I was referring was started many years ago, even before you were born, I imagine. We didn't start the fire, so there's no use burning ourselves with the flame, don't you think?

As far as my three posts....we all start somewhere, yes? and my motivation...well, I appreciate a good argument, and I just can't seem to get that on Aunt Minnie....

 

[SquidDoc]

While I agree that a bias shouldn't really exist as some of the best docs I have seen have been DO's it is completely wrong to try to compare MD and DOs with DMDs and DDS. DOs and MDs have slightly different approaches to their medical education (and this is something the DOs really harp on about) while the DMD and DDS schools follow the same general formula and vary only based on individual school philosophy and not degree philosophy.

DOs do not all harp on what makes them "different"...I am not sure where you got that from.

DOs and MDs for the most part approach the clinical problems in the same exact fashion. There are very slight differences indeed, and some people build their practices focusing on those differences. As a first year medical student, you may or may not have had that much experience dealing with MDs and DOs working side-by-side, but as a future military physician, you surely will. I know that when I began as an MS1, I did not realize just how merged the two had become.

By the time you are a resident, you will likely wonder if there are any ascertainable differences, and then you can revisit your thinking on my comparisons🙂 Maybe there are many more differences between MDs/DOs vs DMDs/DDSs, but my point was to note that the differences in actual practice usually go unrecognized for the most part. I met a guy on a flight to Vegas that proceeded to tell me that dentists from DDS schools get more clinical preparation for practice than the DMDs, and thus his school was superior. I thought he was joking at first, but he was really being serious.

I just finished a Neuro clerkship at the Naval med center in San Diego with a couple of MS4s from your school...good group of people🙂

 

[SquidDoc]

Well, my neck of the woods is Indiana, so you probably won't have to worry about being here if you are on the WC. The bias to which I was referring was started many years ago, even before you were born, I imagine. We didn't start the fire, so there's no use burning ourselves with the flame, don't you think?

As far as my three posts....we all start somewhere, yes? and my motivation...well, I appreciate a good argument, and I just can't seem to get that on Aunt Minnie....

I have a good friend from Indiana, and she is an MD, double boarded in IM & peds. She has no problems with DOs, and in fact is a partner with one in her clinic. She said that there were hardly any DOs in Indiana (probably because there are no DO schools in the region), but said that she never encountered any bias against them while she attended medical school and residency there.

Bottom line, there are crappy MDs, crappy DOs, crappy techs...there are a certain percentage of each that really do not belong in health care, and a percentage that really do wonderful things for the community. How you treat people, and the impacts you make on other people's lives will best define how you are truly judged, rather than the letters following the name on your white coat🙂

For the most part, people on SDN radiology forums or on auntminnie med student forums to not there to argue...rather, we are here to learn from each other and tell others about our practice experience. Welcome to SDN, and enjoy your stay. There are a ton of helpful people here.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

DOs do not all harp on what makes them "different"...I am not sure where you got that from.

DOs and MDs for the most part approach the clinical problems in the same exact fashion. There are very slight differences indeed, and some people build their practices focusing on those differences. As a first year medical student, you may or may not have had that much experience dealing with MDs and DOs working side-by-side, but as a future military physician, you surely will. I know that when I began as an MS1, I did not realize just how merged the two had become.

By the time you are a resident, you will likely wonder if there are any ascertainable differences, and then you can revisit your thinking on my comparisons🙂 Maybe there are many more differences between MDs/DOs vs DMDs/DDSs, but my point was to note that the differences in actual practice usually go unrecognized for the most part. I met a guy on a flight to Vegas that proceeded to tell me that dentists from DDS schools get more clinical preparation for practice than the DMDs, and thus his school was superior. I thought he was joking at first, but he was really being serious.

I just finished a Neuro clerkship at the Naval med center in San Diego with a couple of MS4s from your school...good group of people🙂

I didn't mean to come across offensive in my previous post and apolagize if I did. I realize the two, DOs and MDs practice side by side with little if any discernable difference. What I did say was that some of the best docs I have observed have been DOs. What I meant about the differences in education is that DOs study OMM while MDs don't unless they want to learn it through a fellowship or something. I think some OMM has useful benefits while other features (I don't think you'll ever convince me with the cranial manipulations) are touchy feely myths. All in all there are many DOs in the military (all DOs should thank the military for really making them relevant and equal to their MD counterparts) and many of these DOs are acatually program directors etc. I don't really care so much about the medical degree as long as you are professional and competent. We are all doctors and should respect one another and let our merits speak for themselves.

Thanks for the kinds words in regards to USUHS students. I think we're the best but I'm a little biased.😉

 

[SquidDoc]

I didn't mean to come across offensive in my previous post and apolagize if I did. I realize the two, DOs and MDs practice side by side with little if any discernable difference. What I did say was that some of the best docs I have observed have been DOs. What I meant about the differences in education is that DOs study OMM while MDs don't unless they want to learn it through a fellowship or something. I think some OMM has useful benefits while other features (I don't think you'll ever convince me with the cranial manipulations) are touchy feely myths. All in all there are many DOs in the military (all DOs should thank the military for really making them relevant and equal to their MD counterparts) and many of these DOs are acatually program directors etc. I don't really care so much about the medical degree as long as you are professional and competent. We are all doctors and should respect one another and let our merits speak for themselves.

Thanks for the kinds words in regards to USUHS students. I think we're the best but I'm a little biased.😉

It looks like you have most of it right with the exception of a couple of points.
Cranial may have its place, but not in any standard care. It is definitely a technique that should be CAM (complementary/alternative medicine) and nothing more. In most hands cranial is placebo at best...As an MS4 I can tell you that 99.5% of DOs coming out of school these days will agree with me. The other .5% may actually get good at it and cure a couple of headaches...who knows. It is the only manual modality that DOs use that I have serious doubts about.

Osteopathic medicine does not need to thank the military for making their practice "relevant and equal to their MD counterparts". That statement is a little absurd. Did a professor at USUHS teach you that? Many DOs served through many US conflicts, and yes, that helped the profession, but it was not as if these DOs did not have licenses to practice medicine in each of their home states, and we have never been hurting for business in primary care.

Most of the allopathic students that I have worked with seemed to think that DOs were the same as MDs, except that they get additional training in hands on medicine...thats it. So your opinion of little if any discernable difference is a good one.

Did you realize that the DO profession started with a bunch of MDs breaking away from the standard of care at the time (which involved blood-letting for headaches, and tonics chalked full of toxins and poisons") thinking that they could do better with their hands. Osteopathic medicine grew along side of allopathic medicine, and all medical advancements throughout the years were shared by both professions, but the osteopathic side kept refining their manual techniques so as to provide an additional modality in which to provide treatment. DOs were not just cracking backs when penicilin came out, you know.

Anyways we are totally getting off topic. PM me if you ever make it to NMCSD, and I will kindly take the opportunity to explain things to you further if you let me.

 

[f_w]

An SDN specific corollary to Godwins law of the usenet:

'The n of posts needed to re-fashion any thread on SDN into *omitted* DO vs MD is low'

 

[osli]

 

[mig2k]

I have worked with some genuinely caring radiologists---strictly coincidence, they are MDs---actually touch patients, take time with them when they need a few extra minutes, or just to chat with them as human beings.....and not make the patient feel like they are bringing down their efficiency percentages.

It's a good thing you did choose radiology. Your paycheck is big because you have the support staff to deal with patients for you. Did you buy them lunch for tech week?

You must be a very "special" rads office. Aside from the typical preop pt interaction before an IR/flouro procedure, radiologist almost never talk to pts. Sure once a month you may review a case with a patient because she/he is the brother of the ER doc, but this very very rarely happens. Why would they need to? Its up the their referring doc to discuss results to them. Heck, many PDs get pissed if you tell the pts the results before them.

You argument really is silly. How many raddocs do you see hanging out at the CT machine? What kind of office are you working at? Most of the raddocs I know sit at their reading station and reading cases.

If you enjoy this patient interaction so much, maybe you should consider IR for its limited interaction or maybe a different residency.

 

[FizbanZymogen]

It looks like you have most of it right with the exception of a couple of points.
Cranial may have its place, but not in any standard care. It is definitely a technique that should be CAM (complementary/alternative medicine) and nothing more. In most hands cranial is placebo at best...As an MS4 I can tell you that 99.5% of DOs coming out of school these days will agree with me. The other .5% may actually get good at it and cure a couple of headaches...who knows. It is the only manual modality that DOs use that I have serious doubts about.

Osteopathic medicine does not need to thank the military for making their practice "relevant and equal to their MD counterparts". That statement is a little absurd. Did a professor at USUHS teach you that? Many DOs served through many US conflicts, and yes, that helped the profession, but it was not as if these DOs did not have licenses to practice medicine in each of their home states, and we have never been hurting for business in primary care.

Most of the allopathic students that I have worked with seemed to think that DOs were the same as MDs, except that they get additional training in hands on medicine...thats it. So your opinion of little if any discernable difference is a good one.

Did you realize that the DO profession started with a bunch of MDs breaking away from the standard of care at the time (which involved blood-letting for headaches, and tonics chalked full of toxins and poisons") thinking that they could do better with their hands. Osteopathic medicine grew along side of allopathic medicine, and all medical advancements throughout the years were shared by both professions, but the osteopathic side kept refining their manual techniques so as to provide an additional modality in which to provide treatment. DOs were not just cracking backs when penicilin came out, you know.

Anyways we are totally getting off topic. PM me if you ever make it to NMCSD, and I will kindly take the opportunity to explain things to you further if you let me.

I know this is off topic but SquidDoc, I know quite a bit about DOs. Yes I know you were licensed physicians for many years etc etc. What I did mean was it wasn't really until the military granted DOs the same privileges in the medical community as MDs that they began to be seen as equivalent by a majority of the population (I know the midwest is the exception here). USUHS didn't teach this to me, two DOs from DMU & KCOM did 👍.

 

[SquidDoc]

I know this is off topic but SquidDoc, I know quite a bit about DOs. Yes I know you were licensed physicians for many years etc etc. What I did mean was it wasn't really until the military granted DOs the same privileges in the medical community as MDs that they began to be seen as equivalent by a majority of the population (I know the midwest is the exception here). USUHS didn't teach this to me, two DOs from DMU & KCOM did 👍.

I know very well how the story has gone with the history of Osteopathic/Allopathic medicine, the military, and of course individual state licensure. I just do not want anyone to get the idea that if it were not for the military, DOs would not exist or at least not be able to practice in most states...that thought would be ridiculous.

Seriously, the only place I would get that seems to care about being biased against DOs that I have seen have been some people on forums or premeds. I am not saying that you were DO bashing, rather I am just trying to clarify the facts.

 

[olliemctuffy]

Can we please go back to discussing radiology. I am a 3rd year student from an east coast osteopathic medical school and interested in radiology. H'd most courses first 2 years and on rotations have H'd peds and IM. Top 3 of 125 students 1st 2 years. 649 COMLEX 1 and 244 USMLE 1. 8 research papers. What are my chances looking like at osteo and or allo rads residencies? What else should I do to help (how many "showcase roations"?).

Also, anyone know of any DOs signing at allo rads residencies outside the match?

Thanks any info is greatly appreciated.

 

[mig2k]

Can we please go back to discussing radiology. I am a 3rd year student from an east coast osteopathic medical school and interested in radiology. H'd most courses first 2 years and on rotations have H'd peds and IM. Top 3 of 125 students 1st 2 years. 649 COMLEX 1 and 244 USMLE 1. 8 research papers. What are my chances looking like at osteo and or allo rads residencies? What else should I do to help (how many "showcase roations"?).

Also, anyone know of any DOs signing at allo rads residencies outside the match?

Thanks any info is greatly appreciated.

You'll be fine, just try not to be a jackass during the interview. Rotating at potential programs won't hurt either.

 

[Osteopathology]

"Can we please go back to discussing radiology. I am a 3rd year student from an east coast osteopathic medical school and interested in radiology. H'd most courses first 2 years and on rotations have H'd peds and IM. Top 3 of 125 students 1st 2 years. 649 COMLEX 1 and 244 USMLE 1. 8 research papers. What are my chances looking like at osteo and or allo rads residencies? What else should I do to help (how many "showcase roations"?).

Also, anyone know of any DOs signing at allo rads residencies outside the match?

Thanks any info is greatly appreciated."

Most people would jump for those numbers. 8 Research papers? That seems like a BOAT load if you ask me. Did you actually work on any of them? I hate to sound harsh but just curious is all. Regardless.... Honors, huge board scores and research = you got a great shot.

I wish ya well! Hope you land a good one for yourself.

Osteo

 

[olliemctuffy]

Thanks for the encouragement, the 8 papers are over 5 years of research and 1 done while in first 2 years of med school. Some first author, some just on the list, all but one in basic science.

 

[SquidDoc]

Thanks for the encouragement, the 8 papers are over 5 years of research and 1 done while in first 2 years of med school. Some first author, some just on the list, all but one in basic science.

My research was brought up at 2 of my osteopathic radiology interviews, and they seemed to think that some good research should be a part of all applicants ERAS.

What I found suprising is that at 3 or 4 of my osteopathic radiology interviews, the PDs or attendings either asked me what I got on the USMLE, or they commented on my USMLE scores. It would seem that for this reason, even the osteopathic programs look at the USMLE scores in sizing up their applicants. For the COMLEX, I was in the 650s for both level I and level II, and that seemed to be a fairly average score when compared to the other people I was interviewing with. One guy was in the 720s...these people are unreal.

 

[SquidDoc]

Also, anyone know of any DOs signing at allo rads residencies outside the match?

QUOTE]

I would love to know this! I asked a few PDs at some of the allopathic rads interviews that I have been on whether they have ever presigned a DO, and most of them just told me that they are not allowed because of the ACGME restrictions to presigning. Even though this does not apply to DOs legally, it seems like a new idea to most.

I know of some classmates that have presigned in other allo specialties, but have yet to hear of someone presigning for an allo rads program.