DO Residencies Looking at USMLE Scores?

[SomeDoc]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Are they doing this now?

 

[DH78]

The 3rd years I've spoken too did not take the USMLE, and they all planned to do osteopathic residencies. I think the COMLEX is all you need.

Good luck.

 

[HopefulDoc1984]

I asked a PD of an DO ortho program if I should take the USMLE and his response was "The USMLE, whats that?".

Since DOs are not required to take the USMLE, I dont think they care, nor can they make it a requirement.

 

[Haole]

I applied to one osteopathic anesthesia program. I took both COMLEX and USMLE. I only submitted my COMLEX scores to the osteopathic program because I didn't think they would care about my USMLE. During my interview they asked me if I took the USMLE. I told them I did and they asked me what my scores were and why I did not submit them. They then told me that after the interview I needed to submit my scores to them. I was really surprised. I never did send them the scores because I withdrew from the osteopathic match.

 

[SomeDoc]

I applied to one osteopathic anesthesia program. I took both COMLEX and USMLE. I only submitted my COMLEX scores to the osteopathic program because I didn't think they would care about my USMLE. During my interview they asked me if I took the USMLE. I told them I did and they asked me what my scores were and why I did not submit them. They then told me that after the interview I needed to submit my scores to them. I was really surprised. I never did send them the scores because I withdrew from the osteopathic match.

Yeah, this is what I've heard. As of this years ERAS, we have the option of releasing both COMLEX and USMLE scores to AOA programs.

 

[ceftazidime]

Yeah, this is what I've heard. As of this years ERAS, we have the option of releasing both COMLEX and USMLE scores to AOA programs.

The option was there last year when I applied as well. But I never bothered submitting USMLE scores to AOA programs because it would seem irrelevant. What Haole mentioned is interesting... perhaps the more competitive AOA programs are looking for a better way to differentiate their applicants.

 

[bigDinLV]

If you take it, why wouldn't they want to see it??

 

[DrWBD]

If you take it, why wouldn't they want to see it??

Politics.

My opinion is that under NO circumstances should an osteopathic program director be aware that you took the USMLE. It isn't their business anyway, as it is not required for any osteopathic residency.

 

[bigDinLV]

Politics.

My opinion is that under NO circumstances should an osteopathic program director be aware that you took the USMLE. It isn't their business anyway, as it is not required for any osteopathic residency.

Then you could also say the same for any MD program. We should all be required to take the USMLE and they should not look at our COMLEX. That isn't the case though.

If the applicant submits their score for the USMLE, then looking at the score should be fair game.

I did NOT take the USMLE and I think I would have done just fine in the MD match, I matched a DO program first though.

 

[JStub]

AOA programs shouldn't look at USMLE scores and the ACGME shouldn't look at COMLEX scores. At least not until we (DOs and MDs) all take one exam. There really should be only one licensing exam to become a physician in the US (plus or minus an OMM section for each degree)

 

[DrWBD]

Then you could also say the same for any MD program. We should all be required to take the USMLE and they should not look at our COMLEX. That isn't the case though.

If the applicant submits their score for the USMLE, then looking at the score should be fair game.

But the reality is that an ACGME program director looking at a COMLEX score is not the equivalent of an AOA program director looking at your USMLE score.

To a hard-line AOA program director, a DO who takes the USMLE could be perceived as:
1. someone playing both sides of the GME fence - i.e. not really committed to osteopathic training.
2. a sellout to the profession (yes these folks do exist in osteopathic GME)

Why would you potentially grenade your application with something extraneous?

 

[kushdog1]

But the reality is that an ACGME program director looking at a COMLEX score is not the equivalent of an AOA program director looking at your USMLE score.

To a hard-line AOA program director, a DO who takes the USMLE could be perceived as:
1. someone playing both sides of the GME fence - i.e. not really committed to osteopathic training.
2. a sellout to the profession (yes these folks do exist in osteopathic GME)

Why would you potentially grenade your application with something extraneous?

If I have only COMLEX scores can I apply to ACGME programs? When I asked University of Florida they said they encourage me to apply. But in ERAS I do not see them as AOA approved programs for IM. So what do I do? HELP!

 

[DrWBD]

If I have only COMLEX scores can I apply to ACGME programs? When I asked University of Florida they said they encourage me to apply. But in ERAS I do not see them as AOA approved programs for IM. So what do I do? HELP!

You need to take a few minutes to learn about the residency application process, something that many osteopathic students are woefully underinformed about. I recommend the Kenneth Iserson book (your school library probably has a copy - don't buy it!) but I'm sure there are others out there as well.

Regarding your question - the COMLEX is required to apply for AOA-accredited residencies. For ACGME-accredited residencies, the USMLE is the standard but many osteopathic students have successfully obtained residencies in ACGME programs with the COMLEX. The best way to find out whether or not an ACGME-accredited program will accept the COMLEX in lieu of the USMLE is to call or email the program directly.

The reason you aren't seeing the program as AOA-approved is that it isn't one - it is ACGME-accredited. "AOA accreditation" only means that the residency/fellowship is overseen by the AOA. The AOA doesn't accredit ACGME programs, and this has nothing to do with whether or not they accept the COMLEX.

 

[bigDinLV]

But the reality is that an ACGME program director looking at a COMLEX score is not the equivalent of an AOA program director looking at your USMLE score.

To a hard-line AOA program director, a DO who takes the USMLE could be perceived as:
1. someone playing both sides of the GME fence - i.e. not really committed to osteopathic training.
2. a sellout to the profession (yes these folks do exist in osteopathic GME)

Why would you potentially grenade your application with something extraneous?

I agree with your point, it is true.

In general I have a dislike for members of one profession that hate the other profession. When I chose not to take the USMLE and only take the COMLEX, there was reasoning behind it. It may have limited the potential number of programs that would interview me, but that is fine. If a program will not accept my COMLEX, then perhaps they do not look as favorably on a DO. I didn't want to end up at a program with anything to prove, accept me for who I am and the med school I attended.

I also dislike DOs that talk smack about MDs. In school we had one OMM professor that was a MD hater. She said things like antibiotics for pneumonia were something a MD would do. We should only do things like work on the diaphragm and ribs. To me that is just nonsense and makes you a poor physician. Why not take the best of both worlds and give them the abx and also do your OMM.

There is no reason for an us against them mentality in medicine.

 

[kushdog1]

I agree with your point, it is true.

In general I have a dislike for members of one profession that hate the other profession. When I chose not to take the USMLE and only take the COMLEX, there was reasoning behind it. It may have limited the potential number of programs that would interview me, but that is fine. If a program will not accept my COMLEX, then perhaps they do not look as favorably on a DO. I didn't want to end up at a program with anything to prove, accept me for who I am and the med school I attended.

I also dislike DOs that talk smack about MDs. In school we had one OMM professor that was a MD hater. She said things like antibiotics for pneumonia were something a MD would do. We should only do things like work on the diaphragm and ribs. To me that is just nonsense and makes you a poor physician. Why not take the best of both worlds and give them the abx and also do your OMM.

There is no reason for an us against them mentality in medicine.

Thanks for all the input. I understand I can apply for both. Now, the most important question: I am a Florida resident and I would like to practice in Florida. Therefore I must do AOA approved residencies?

 

[DrWBD]

Thanks for all the input. I understand I can apply for both. Now, the most important question: I am a Florida resident and I would like to practice in Florida. Therefore I must do AOA approved residencies?

You should start a new thread for your questions, as it is not relevant to the originally posted query. Or better yet, use the search function first, as many of your questions have been asked and answered in this forum already.

Here's a link to a nicely compiled list of state requirements for licensure. It looks like Florida requires an AOA-approved INTERNSHIP but not necessarily residency. It also appears that a Resolution 42 exemption will suffice for the AOA internship year.

You may also want to contact the Florida State Osteopathic Medical Board to further clarify this issue.

 

[DrWBD]

In general I have a dislike for members of one profession that hate the other profession. When I chose not to take the USMLE and only take the COMLEX, there was reasoning behind it. It may have limited the potential number of programs that would interview me, but that is fine. If a program will not accept my COMLEX, then perhaps they do not look as favorably on a DO. I didn't want to end up at a program with anything to prove, accept me for who I am and the med school I attended.

You're correct that DOs should be judged by their merits and not be discriminated against.

Favoring the USMLE over the COMLEX, though, does not necessarily indicate an anti-DO bias or hate towards the osteopathic profession. The majority of DOs who take the USMLEs assert that the tests are not comparable, and that the USMLE is the superior exam in terms of testing medical knowledge. Furthermore, when applying to ACGME programs one is often competing against a large pool of US MD students and foreign students who have taken the USMLE. In order to objectively compare applicants, I feel that it is reasonable for a program director of an ACGME residency, especially a competitive one, to prefer using the same standard. The USMLE, in this regard, is in fact an equalizer. It's harder to argue that a DO student is inferior when they outperform an MD on the same test.

 

[bigDinLV]

^^^ True, I understand the apples to apples comparison that an allo program director can make if a DO takes the USMLE.

It just wasn't for me though.

 

[goooooober]

^^^ True, I understand the apples to apples comparison that an allo program director can make if a DO takes the USMLE.

It just wasn't for me though.

Well that's because you are not an apple. Clearly you are a tangerine or one those fruits with the spines that gives you bloody hands before consumption.

I remeber when I applied to my first choice, an upper tier MD residency program that had never interviewed a DO let alone accept one. I lucked out and got an interview. The PD said "Well, I have had a chance to look at your records. You did well on your USMLEs and the rest of your app looks fine. But I do have one question. If we accept you, you are not going to try to heal appendicitis with your hands are you?". I said "sir, not unless I am holding a big shiny scalpel." He seemed relieved and I ended up matching there. Thank goodness I am an apple.

 

[DrWBD]

Well that's because you are not an apple. Clearly you are a tangerine or one those fruits with the spines that gives you bloody hands before consumption.

I remeber when I applied to my first choice, an upper tier MD residency program that had never interviewed a DO let alone accept one. I lucked out and got an interview. The PD said "Well, I have had a chance to look at your records. You did well on your USMLEs and the rest of your app looks fine. But I do have one question. If we accept you, you are not going to try to heal appendicitis with your hands are you?". I said "sir, not unless I am holding a big shiny scalpel." He seemed relieved and I ended up matching there. Thank goodness I am an apple.

Well played, sir.

 

[Isoprop]

Well that's because you are not an apple. Clearly you are a tangerine or one those fruits with the spines that gives you bloody hands before consumption.

I remeber when I applied to my first choice, an upper tier MD residency program that had never interviewed a DO let alone accept one. I lucked out and got an interview. The PD said "Well, I have had a chance to look at your records. You did well on your USMLEs and the rest of your app looks fine. But I do have one question. If we accept you, you are not going to try to heal appendicitis with your hands are you?". I said "sir, not unless I am holding a big shiny scalpel." He seemed relieved and I ended up matching there. Thank goodness I am an apple.

You, sir, are my favorite SDN poster.

 

[Dissected]

i remeber when i applied to my first choice, an upper tier md residency program that had never interviewed a do let alone accept one. I lucked out and got an interview. The pd said "well, i have had a chance to look at your records. You did well on your usmles and the rest of your app looks fine. But i do have one question. If we accept you, you are not going to try to heal appendicitis with your hands are you?". I said "sir, not unless i am holding a big shiny scalpel." he seemed relieved and i ended up matching there. Thank goodness i am an apple.

ftw!