Trouble at KansasCom

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LettheKangerooRoar said:
You put way too much into what deans actually do. If you believe I’m “Dr. Winslow”, so be it. I’m done. KansasCOM is not a bad school.
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So can you tell us what a Dean’s role actually is? The man makes 500K for doing nothing except showing up to a few publicity events. Meanwhile, students get marked down for professionalism when they’re simply trying to contact the person in charge to voice their concerns. The least he can do is listen to them. He’s never present, nor does he make time for students. It’s painfully obvious that the rest of the administration has no idea what they’re doing, and students’ futures are being affected because of it.
 
RichardDickWinslow said:
Made an account not to troll (maybe a bit with the username). Just wanted to answer the questions that Goro has been asking as I'm one of the 42 students that is currently involved in this situation

Do you have a student counseling center, for those with mental health issues?
Yes we do. We had a full time counselor on campus who left to start their own practice back in October of 2024. We were offered 6 free appointments with them after they had left. From October (can't remember the exact date Amanda Root left) to June 22nd, the student counseling center located within KansasCOM was closed, as we had no counselor. The school did provide online mental health care support resources during this time, but there was no counselor on campus that we could go speak with.

Do you have a Learning Center to help those who have issues with time management, test taking skills, or finding their best study methods?
Yes we do! Travis Pike recently obtained his doctorate and he's one of the learning specialists.

Why is there a nearly lethal bar to take comlex, when other schools will allow for extended study time, at the expense of an elective?
This answer includes facts but ultimately is based on opinion...The class of 2026 obtained a first-time pass rate of 74%, which is god awful. KansasCOM has to pump that pass rate up with the class of 2027. So let's put these big benchmarks in place and tell them the night before they take their first COMSAE exam and put the fear of god into them. And to drive the point home, let's put meeting these benchmarks as a requirement for passing the Clinical On-Ramp course. The May 16th COMSAE (COMSAE #4...the last one that was offered by KansasCOM) occurred, KansasCOM realizes that the majority of the class has failed to achieve the benchmarks and will now fail Clinical On-Ramp. KansasCOM then makes the last minute decision to modify the benchmark requirements and the criteria for passing Clinical On-Ramp. Benchmark is then changed to a score of 450 or higher (some students who scored lower but close to this were still passed and given permission for COMLEX). And with that, we've created a group of 42 students who will be forced to repeat. They did this because a portion of the class of 2026, who have been preparing for COMLEX Level 2, have also failed to meet benchmarks for obtaining permission for COMLEX Level 2. Now it would be awesome if we could organize extended study time for all of these students and put them all on delayed rotation schedules, but we only have 2 clinical rotations coordinators for the entire student body. That would be a nightmare amount of work for them to do. So, rather than do that, they've forced all of us to repeat a year at full tuition. I imagine the affected OMS3s will be given the rotation schedules of affected OMS2s, as that seems like a quick and easy solution for the 2 clinical rotations coordinators that are employed.

And in doing all of this, KansasCOM has completely ignored its own policies and procedures detailed in the student handbook and violated several COCA Pre-Accreditation requirements.
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We all came to medical school with the same goal — to become physicians. We all knew what it meant to attend a new school, but I’m sure no one ever imagined it would turn out like this. It’s honestly tragic. What a complete disaster.
 
RichardDickWinslow said:
Made an account not to troll (maybe a bit with the username). Just wanted to answer the questions that Goro has been asking as I'm one of the 42 students that is currently involved in this situation

Do you have a student counseling center, for those with mental health issues?
Yes we do. We had a full time counselor on campus who left to start their own practice back in October of 2024. We were offered 6 free appointments with them after they had left. From October (can't remember the exact date Amanda Root left) to June 22nd, the student counseling center located within KansasCOM was closed, as we had no counselor. The school did provide online mental health care support resources during this time, but there was no counselor on campus that we could go speak with.

Do you have a Learning Center to help those who have issues with time management, test taking skills, or finding their best study methods?
Yes we do! Travis Pike recently obtained his doctorate and he's one of the learning specialists.

Why is there a nearly lethal bar to take comlex, when other schools will allow for extended study time, at the expense of an elective?
This answer includes facts but ultimately is based on opinion...The class of 2026 obtained a first-time pass rate of 74%, which is god awful. KansasCOM has to pump that pass rate up with the class of 2027. So let's put these big benchmarks in place and tell them the night before they take their first COMSAE exam and put the fear of god into them. And to drive the point home, let's put meeting these benchmarks as a requirement for passing the Clinical On-Ramp course. The May 16th COMSAE (COMSAE #4...the last one that was offered by KansasCOM) occurred, KansasCOM realizes that the majority of the class has failed to achieve the benchmarks and will now fail Clinical On-Ramp. KansasCOM then makes the last minute decision to modify the benchmark requirements and the criteria for passing Clinical On-Ramp. Benchmark is then changed to a score of 450 or higher (some students who scored lower but close to this were still passed and given permission for COMLEX). And with that, we've created a group of 42 students who will be forced to repeat. They did this because a portion of the class of 2026, who have been preparing for COMLEX Level 2, have also failed to meet benchmarks for obtaining permission for COMLEX Level 2. Now it would be awesome if we could organize extended study time for all of these students and put them all on delayed rotation schedules, but we only have 2 clinical rotations coordinators for the entire student body. That would be a nightmare amount of work for them to do. So, rather than do that, they've forced all of us to repeat a year at full tuition. I imagine the affected OMS3s will be given the rotation schedules of affected OMS2s, as that seems like a quick and easy solution for the 2 clinical rotations coordinators that are employed.

And in doing all of this, KansasCOM has completely ignored its own policies and procedures detailed in the student handbook and violated several COCA Pre-Accreditation requirements.
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Even if it’s a nightmare for them because they have two coordinators, they should still do right by the students. Sure, they have A LOT more work, but if they truly cared about their students as an institution, they would never force students to repeat an entire year, and pay full tuition, after successfully passing everything. The school should have had plans in place for situations like this, but it all goes back to the fact that they clearly don’t know what they’re doing in the first place.
 
The Dean is David Ninan? Does he still do anesthesia? I interviewed with him for residency and have my opinions...
 
ToKingdomCome said:
The Dean is David Ninan? Does he still do anesthesia? I interviewed with him for residency and have my opinions...
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Please do share your opinion. Yes, he is the dean but not sure if he's still practicing. He makes 500k doing nothing here so he doesn't even need to be practicing anymore. He lives in California and only flies to campus when there’s a publicity event. He has also told students that he can mark them for professionalism violations if they try to contact him directly. On top of that, he rents an apartment in a building across from the school, students have seen him there. I’m not sure if that’s just to make it seem like he lives in Wichita or not.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
Please do share your opinion. Yes, he is the dean but not sure if he's still practicing. He makes 500k doing nothing here so he doesn't even need to be practicing anymore. He lives in California and only flies to campus when there’s a publicity event. He has also told students that he can mark them for professionalism violations if they try to contact him directly. On top of that, he rents an apartment in a building across from the school, students have seen him there. I’m not sure if that’s just to make it seem like he lives in Wichita or not.
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DM me if you want my opinion. I mean I would be pracitinc anesthesia if I were only working 2 days a week and make over a million dollars but thats just me
 
Class of 2027:

As of now, the on Campus Group of 19 students from the Class of 2027 has been moved to the Class of 2028. Among these students, approximately 9 are repeating due to prior course failures. 10 out of those 19 students were part of the first group and some in the latter group that met with the Student Progress Committee (SPC) on June 2nd to assess COMLEX readiness.

Since then, the SPC has met with additional student groups on June 16th, June 18th, June 24th, June 26th, and is scheduled to meet again on July 7th. On average, the committee meets with about 8 students per day. The students in the later groups appear to have a higher number of academic failures, placing them at even greater risk of being required to repeat the year.

Currently, approximately 40 students have already met with SPC and are either awaiting a decision, have been instructed to repeat the year, or are currently in the appeals process. So far, all appeals have been denied, and every student who has met with SPC has been instructed to repeat the year.

On Campus Group, for the class of 2027, 8 of the students were also moved from the class of 2026 after their LOA or were told to repeat halfway through the year due to their COMLEX Level 1 performance. Although the Campus Group has not officially updated its roster, by the conclusion of these proceedings, approximately half of the Class of 2027 will repeat the academic year.

Class of 2028:

Many students from the Class of 2028 are remediating their second modules today, and many have not met with SPC or are scheduled to meet with SPC soon.

There will be a lot more movement on Campus Group from now till the start of next school year. When students are moved down a class year, similar adjustments are made in adjacent classes, possibly to manage or balance the overall student roster
 
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Some updates: I believe all SPC meetings for CO27 have concluded as of this week. Students have received their decisions, and everyone has been told they’re repeating. So far, all appeals have been denied. There are currently 45 students in the new GroupMe for those repeating the year, though there may be additional students who haven’t joined the group yet.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
Some updates: I believe all SPC meetings for CO27 have concluded as of this week. Students have received their decisions, and everyone has been told they’re repeating. So far, all appeals have been denied. There are currently 45 students in the new GroupMe for those repeating the year, though there may be additional students who haven’t joined the group yet.
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That makes a total attrition of the CO27 to be what?

Keep contacting COCA, the school's board of directors, and the Regents of the state of KS.

Try the media as well.
 
Goro said:
That makes a total attrition of the CO27 to be what?

Keep contacting COCA, the school's board of directors, and the Regents of the state of KS.

Try the media as well.
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We had around 110 before all the repeaters. It will bring us to around 65 students heading to M3. Cohort started with 137, so about a 47% graduation rate.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
We had around 110 before all the repeaters. It will bring us to around 65 students heading to M3. Cohort started with 137, so about a 47% graduation rate.
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I repeat, this a Carib level number. LCME would shut down an MD school and tell them to fix the mess they made, or lose accreditation.

Also as mentioned previously, this will play havoc when CO30 hits 3rd year.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
Some updates: I believe all SPC meetings for CO27 have concluded as of this week. Students have received their decisions, and everyone has been told they’re repeating. So far, all appeals have been denied. There are currently 45 students in the new GroupMe for those repeating the year, though there may be additional students who haven’t joined the group yet.
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If it was 5-10 students, I wouldn't be surprised because appeals almost never work and it's all a farce. What surprises me is that the admin didn't even care enough to save their image by saving at least 30 students so the numbers don't look as bad.

This should be a HUGE red flag to anyone applying/considering this school. It's so easy to fall into the trap "well, this won't happen to me" like uh no, why take that risk? Go to a school with an admin who at least cares about their reputation.
 
Starr_key said:
If it was 5-10 students, I wouldn't be surprised because appeals almost never work and it's all a farce. What surprises me is that the admin didn't even care enough to save their image by saving at least 30 students so the numbers don't look as bad.

This should be a HUGE red flag to anyone applying/considering this school. It's so easy to fall into the trap "well, this won't happen to me" like uh no, why take that risk? Go to a school with an admin who at least cares about their reputation.
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Add in a school that cares about their students, and does everything they can to help them, and not blame them
 
RandomPerson19 said:
We had around 110 before all the repeaters. It will bring us to around 65 students heading to M3. Cohort started with 137, so about a 47% graduation rate.
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According to their website they won’t take an mcat lower than 500. Is that true? I’m surprised a new school would have that cutoff.
 
dochopeful2025 said:
According to their website they won’t take an mcat lower than 500. Is that true? I’m surprised a new school would have that cutoff.
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Said that on the website since the beginning, but I personally know of a large number of students in each cohort that had MCAT scores less than 500 (even a lot lower). Having said that, I also do know those same students who scored very low on the MCAT and are among the best performing in their class right now!
 
Starr_key said:
LOL because Orlando COM tried this and was struggling to fill their inaugural class
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OCOM got so desperate that they contacted some rejected and offered them an acceptance.

And the AOA still keeps braying "More DOs good!!!"

And COCA will accredit an empty beer bottle.
 
Goro said:
Believe or not, there are pro-student schools. Mine is one.
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Hey hey hey… now we will all know where you are just by you saying your school is pro student with how bad most schools are. Lol
 
dochopeful2025 said:
According to their website they won’t take an mcat lower than 500. Is that true? I’m surprised a new school would have that cutoff.
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Not true, I personally know students from incoming class (2029) with 480s and 490s. The school just doesn't report real data, like how their retention/graduation rate isn't representative on their website.
 
ETKL said:
"Think of yourselves as employees":
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I’m really glad someone from the new class shared this. I’ve seen some messages from the incoming class, and many of them think the Reddit posts are fake or exaggerated. But I’m not surprised admin said that, they don't see their own students as actual people. To them, we’re just a number.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
I’m really glad someone from the new class shared this. I’ve seen some messages from the incoming class, and many of them think the Reddit posts are fake or exaggerated. But I’m not surprised admin said that, they don't see their own students as actual people. To them, we’re just a number.
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Most schools will see you like that until you graduate and then they want money. Now I get really nice phone calls *barf*
 
RandomPerson19 said:
We were told by admin that it's our fault we're in this position 🙁
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Not even the Caribbean predators do that! God, would swinish administrators you have!

Just taking a stab in the dark, it was one particular administrator that told you that??

Do you have any sort of organized student government? Perhaps the entire student body can write a letter of no support about your dean and other administrators, to the schools executive board? Or the Kansas State Board of regents?
 
Since we are talking about the school and the carribean: There were a number of professors at the school that taught at the carribean and came over. Also, seems like dismissed students are encouraged to attend Trinity in the Caribbean through a connection and they are told they can just continue there.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
Not true, I personally know students from incoming class (2029) with 480s and 490s. The school just doesn't report real data, like how their retention/graduation rate isn't representative on their website.
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480s?! I am no fan of the MCAT and while it's not an accurate predictor of med success imo, I firmly believe it helps students for STEP and students with 480s MCAT have no business being in med school if they did not retake and get a higher score.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
We were told by admin that it's our fault we're in this position 🙁
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It is not your fault AT ALL and don't ever think that. Honestly, I've seen so many instances where students repeating were simply screwed over by their school, like you guys. Sounds crazy, but it's true. I've only met a handful of students where the student repeating really needed to. Heck, I even know one case where the student should have repeated, but the school passed them on while keeping back more qualified students.

This is why, if you look at the document that asks PDs in each specialty what they value in applicants, NONE of them even talk about preclinicals because it's such nonsense. Clinicals, yes, matters b/c you're seeing patients at that point but preclinicals at some schools can be glorified hazing.

Repeating a year SUCKS, especially with this nonsense, but I know students who have matched in their intended specialties despite doing so. My advice to you would be to come back with a vengeance, keep your head down, and simply GTFO with your degree. You and everyone else can do it!! 🙂
 
ETKL said:
Since we are talking about the school and the carribean: There were a number of professors at the school that taught at the carribean and came over. Also, seems like dismissed students are encouraged to attend Trinity in the Caribbean through a connection and they are told they can just continue there.
Click to expand...
Screenshot 2025-07-11 at 8.39.41 AM.png
 
Goro said:
Not even the Caribbean predators do that! God, would swinish administrators you have!

Just taking a stab in the dark, it was one particular administrator that told you that??

Do you have any sort of organized student government? Perhaps the entire student body can write a letter of no support about your dean and other administrators, to the schools executive board? Or the Kansas State Board of regents?
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The student government has been neutered. A particular member of admin consistently shoots down the recommendations made by students AND faculty. Any concerns are basically met with “sucks to suck” or “you’re the problem.”
 
ETKL said:
Since we are talking about the school and the carribean: There were a number of professors at the school that taught at the carribean and came over. Also, seems like dismissed students are encouraged to attend Trinity in the Caribbean through a connection and they are told they can just continue there.
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Wait...how many students got dismissed? Not repeated, but like dismissed? Do you know why they got dismissed instead of just repeating?
 
Starr_key said:
Wait...how many students got dismissed? Not repeated, but like dismissed? Do you know why they got dismissed instead of just repeating?
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I don't know the exact amount, I'm just looking at the original class composite, and I would say around 15-20 students have been dismissed, probably closer to 20.
 
Starr_key said:
It is not your fault AT ALL and don't ever think that. Honestly, I've seen so many instances where students repeating were simply screwed over by their school, like you guys. Sounds crazy, but it's true. I've only met a handful of students where the student repeating really needed to. Heck, I even know one case where the student should have repeated, but the school passed them on while keeping back more qualified students.

This is why, if you look at the document that asks PDs in each specialty what they value in applicants, NONE of them even talk about preclinicals because it's such nonsense. Clinicals, yes, matters b/c you're seeing patients at that point but preclinicals at some schools can be glorified hazing.

Repeating a year SUCKS, especially with this nonsense, but I know students who have matched in their intended specialties despite doing so. My advice to you would be to come back with a vengeance, keep your head down, and simply GTFO with your degree. You and everyone else can do it!! 🙂
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words. I’ve heard that schools with students repeating a year usually don’t charge full tuition, but our school is charging us full tuition 🙁 They've also changed some of the units for classes. I don't know anymore, everything is constantly changing here, so it's hard to keep up with what's actually real.
 
RandomPerson19 said:
Thank you for the kind words. I’ve heard that schools with students repeating a year usually don’t charge full tuition, but our school is charging us full tuition 🙁 They've also changed some of the units for classes. I don't know anymore, everything is constantly changing here, so it's hard to keep up with what's actually real.
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What you students need to do is bring this to the attention of the local media, anonymously, of course.

Hell, try 60 Minutes while you're at it.
 
ETKL said:
Since we are talking about the school and the carribean: There were a number of professors at the school that taught at the carribean and came over. Also, seems like dismissed students are encouraged to attend Trinity in the Caribbean through a connection and they are told they can just continue there.
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Gee where have I heard that one before? Definitely no conflicts of interest.
 
image005.png


TRANSCRIBED FOR EASIER READING:

Dear Student Doctors,

We hope you had a restful summer and are as excited as we are to begin the 2025-26 academic year in two short weeks Whether you're returning to KansasCOM or joining us as part of the incoming Class of 2029-we can't wait to welcome you.

As we enter the new academic year, Dean Ninan and I want to share several updates focused on enhancing communication, strengthening support, and deepening our partnership with you.

Listening, Acting, and Communicating
We've heard from some of you about the student and academic experience at KansasCOM. We always appreciate and consider your feedback and remain committed as ever to evolving as a community.

Last week, we met with representatives from the Student Government Association (SGA) Executive Board to listen, collaborate, and identity concrete ways to move forward together.

From that meeting, three immediate commitments emerged that Dr. Ninan and I readily embrace:
  1. Communicate More Often and Clearly - You will see more communications about important milestones, expectations, and timelines to help you plan, prepare, and succeed.
  2. Use More Tools to Stay Connected - We understand email alone isn't always the best way to communicate. We are always looking for ways to innovate, and as part of that commitment moving forward we plan on working more closely with the SGA Executive Board to explore new channels to keep you informed in varied ways beyond email.
  3. Improve the Communications Feedback Loop - Our dedicated staff, faculty, and leadership have always been receptive to feedback and work hard to address any identified concerns. We recognize that behind-the-scenes work hasn't always been visible to you. Moving forward, Dean Ninan and I will work with the SGA Executive Board to explore the best ways leadership can begin sharing what we're hearing and how we're responding on a consistent basis.
Accreditation Focused Site Visit

We also want you to be aware that the Commission on Osteopathic College Accreditation (COCA) has notified us of a focused site visit to take place August 18-21.

We are committed to working with COCA and appreciate the opportunity to demonstrate our dedication to all relevant accreditation requirements during their visit.

It any significant updates materialize from their visit, we commit to informing our entire community.

Working Closely with SGA
We all share responsibility for shaping KansasCOM's future-and we appreciate your efforts to make our community better.
SGA plays a key role in representing your voice. This year, we're committed to creating a stronger, more consistent partnership.

This year, our full academic and student support leadership team pledges to increase the frequency of meetings with the SGA Executive Board, focusing on new ways to collaborate and communicate

Thank you for building a solid foundation for Kansas COM and being part of that collaborative journey-together. Each of you has played a vital role in shaping what KansasCOM is today, and what it can become for generations to come.

We're committed to walking this path with you, and we look forward to what we'll accomplish together. Let's have a great year.

Warm Regards,

Tiffany Masson, Psy.D.
President

David Ninan, DO
Dean & Chief Academic Officer
 
respectfully, I do not see what about this begs confidentiality. the gist of the letter is, "we're gonna try to communicate better and use SGA's help more often, and we're working with COCA to improve the school."

you responded to my reply with semi-threatening language asking me to take this down within 4 minutes of it being posted, yet you were the first to bring up its existence. i don't really understand what the purpose of talking about it in the first place was, then.
 
RichardDickWinslow said:
Lol if the admin of KansasCOM views the handbook as a suggestion, then whatever "strict confidentiality note" is a suggestion as well. Embrace the transparency, Dr. Winslow. 🤣
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They don’t even follow their own handbook, yet they’re always telling us to refer to it. Crazy.
 
It took this much “pissing and moaning” just to get them to communicate with us. All it takes is a suicide, months of COCA reports, emails, and online complaining to get an organization like KansasCOM to acknowledge you!

Anyone know anything about a “focused site visit” from COCA? It’ll surmount to nothing being changed about the school. This PR-friendly email is nothing. I have absolutely no faith in a California-based “Zoom-Dean” who has emailed the cohort ONCE an academic year, and a president who still hasn’t responded to any emails sent to her.
 
ForgottenSeraph said:
It took this much “pissing and moaning” just to get them to communicate with us. All it takes is a suicide, months of COCA reports, emails, and online complaining to get an organization like KansasCOM to acknowledge you!

Anyone know anything about a “focused site visit” from COCA? It’ll surmount to nothing being changed about the school. This PR-friendly email is nothing. I have absolutely no faith in a California-based “Zoom-Dean” who has emailed the cohort ONCE an academic year, and a president who still hasn’t responded to any emails sent to her.
Click to expand...
Interesting. Keep sending anonymous tips to COCA, folks. Cite the appropriate accreditation standards.

I wait to see if an alternate accreditation body will form to save the day (like it's happening in Florida...)
 
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