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NexusMD

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Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone knew how the new DO schools would affect the DO residencies. Are there going to be more? With more schools constantly popping up, why shouldnt there be more residencies? Anyone know if they plan add some? Or am I missing something and they are already planned to be added?
 

Protease

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Hey all, I was just wondering if anyone knew how the new DO schools would affect the DO residencies. Are there going to be more? With more schools constantly popping up, why shouldnt there be more residencies? Anyone know if they plan add some? Or am I missing something and they are already planned to be added?

The number of residency slots available for each field is limited by whatever the governemnt sets up. The US gov't has put a cap on the number of residencies spots, so even though there are say X amount of people applying for feild Y, only Z amount will get it. The rest will have to look at another field. Somone please correct me if im wrong.
 

GoFever

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I recently read an article about osteopathic postgraduate training and would like to mention two trends that I think are relevant. The first is that a majority of osteopathic graduates do not participate in the AOA match, opting for ACGME (allopathic) residencies for various reasons. The second trend, perhaps in part resulting from the first, is that nearly 43% of AOA residency positions in primary care fields (925 of 2,165 available) went unfilled in 2005.

Based on this information, we can assume that there should be enough AOA residencies, if one just goes by the numbers. Nevertheless, the author makes mention that the lowest match rates for osteopathic residencies are at the newest osteopathic schools and those which rely on primarily allopathic sites for training, where osteopathic residency positions are not yet established. He sites AZCOM, DMU-COM, and TU-COM (CA and NV). Therefore, although a surplus of AOA residency positions exist (admittedly in primary care fields), students attending schools fitting the above template, might not reach them.

Are there any MSIV's out there that can elaborate on recent AOA match experiences?

(article info: The Predicament of Osteopathic Postdoctoral Education, Academic Medicine, Volume 81(12), December 2006, pp 1123-1127).
 

JonnyG

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I recently read an article about osteopathic postgraduate training and would like to mention two trends that I think are relevant. The first is that a majority of osteopathic graduates do not participate in the AOA match, opting for ACGME (allopathic) residencies for various reasons. The second trend, perhaps in part resulting from the first, is that nearly 43% of AOA residency positions in primary care fields (925 of 2,165 available) went unfilled in 2005.

Based on this information, we can assume that there should be enough AOA residencies, if one just goes by the numbers. Nevertheless, the author makes mention that the lowest match rates for osteopathic residencies are at the newest osteopathic schools and those which rely on primarily allopathic sites for training, where osteopathic residency positions are not yet established. He sites AZCOM, DMU-COM, and TU-COM (CA and NV). Therefore, although a surplus of AOA residency positions exist (admittedly in primary care fields), students attending schools fitting the above template, might not reach them.

Are there any MSIV's out there that can elaborate on recent AOA match experiences?

(article info: The Predicament of Osteopathic Postdoctoral Education, Academic Medicine, Volume 81(12), December 2006, pp 1123-1127).


More and More medical students do not want to do primary care these days. So having a surplus of primary care residencied is not a big surprise
 

Toohotinvegas33

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Based on this information, we can assume that there should be enough AOA residencies, if one just goes by the numbers. Nevertheless, the author makes mention that the lowest match rates for osteopathic residencies are at the newest osteopathic schools and those which rely on primarily allopathic sites for training, where osteopathic residency positions are not yet established. He sites AZCOM, DMU-COM, and TU-COM (CA and NV). Therefore, although a surplus of AOA residency positions exist (admittedly in primary care fields), students attending schools fitting the above template, might not reach them.

Are there any MSIV's out there that can elaborate on recent AOA match experiences?

(article info: The Predicament of Osteopathic Postdoctoral Education, Academic Medicine, Volume 81(12), December 2006, pp 1123-1127).

What planet was he on when he read DMU was a new school (Which has a great match list), and TUCOM-NV has not even had a graduating class yet, so how does ne know how well it will do? I think his crystal ball needs some windex.
 

GoFever

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What planet was he on when he read DMU was a new school (Which has a great match list), and TUCOM-NV has not even had a graduating class yet, so how does ne know how well it will do? I think his crystal ball needs some windex.

Not to defend statements that aren't really mine...

What he is saying is that there are only so many osteopathic residency positions associated with each school. DMU made the list because they use primarily allopathic training sites, even though they are older and more established. This is not really a reflection on the quality of the training at the school, but just a comment on the number of osteopathic postgrad. spots available compared to the number of graduates coming out of each program. So, he writes, "Touro University COM campuses in California and Nevada together enroll 230 students each year, but their osteopathic postdoctoral training institution supports only 32 first-year positions." I haven't gone through a match, personally, but I assume the author is picking up on a trend in osteopathic medical training, where schools turn out more DO's than the schools themselves are capable of absorbing into AOA residencies. Given that most graduates chose allo. residencies in 2005, the writer speculates that a rise in DO grads will further dilute the pool of AOA residencies (at least non primary care), forcing further AOA integration with ACGME programs. Perhaps the writer also uses "dilution" to describe what he may see is a slow merge of osteopathic and allopathic medicine- a "dilution" of the osteopathic profession due to most graduates choosing programs that do not enforce osteopathic principles. I would disagree with this last point because dual AOA/ACGME programs provide mentorship from both MD's and DO's (I think).

How is this relevant to the OP's question? We should have plenty of open spots for those who want AOA primary care positions. Also, there should be some growth in the number of total residencies. If you don't want to fill one of the many open AOA primary care spots, you can rely on dually accredited positions at allopathic sites. As someone thinking seriously about a career in primary care medicine, I also hope that incentives will open up to entice others to fill the open positions. PM me if you would like to read the whole article.
 

jkhamlin

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More and More medical students do not want to do primary care these days. So having a surplus of primary care residencied is not a big surprise

:confused: More and more medical students are choosing primary care because specialty residencies are too frickin' long and the jobs are too demanding. They are having to fill previously competitive residencies such as general surgery with FMG's now.
 

Taus

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:confused: More and more medical students are choosing primary care because specialty residencies are too frickin' long and the jobs are too demanding. They are having to fill previously competitive residencies such as general surgery with FMG's now.
on what planet?
 

DrMom

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If you look at match stats, the open spots both after the match and after the scramble are in primary care. With the 80 hour residency rule in place, surgery has become quite competitive again.
 

Taus

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Dude, this is old news.
Every ounce of info that I have ever seen on this subject has the trends of US grads going away from primary care....I have never seen anything on the contrary....

and surgery not being competative and filling up w/ FMG's...also untrue

I'm not trying to be a D*ck...but where are you getting your information?
 
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jkhamlin

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Every ounce of info that I have ever seen on this subject has the trends of US grads going away from primary care....I have never seen anything on the contrary....

and surgery not being competative and filling up w/ FMG's...also untrue

I'm not trying to be a D*ck...but where are you getting your information?
Here:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49577,00.html
 

DrMom

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Here are the results of the 2006 Osteopathic Match. I don't have any data on the fill rates after the scramble.

IMO, we have way too many TRI and FM residency slots. If we moved funding from some of those to other specialty positions I believe that a larger proportion of Osteopathic residency positions would be filled every year.
 

Taus

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Thank you DrMom

Also JK, think about why Derm, Anest, ER, Optho, ENT, Radiology, etc are so competative these days.....inferring from this and also what I have read in sources such as Isersons, US grads don't consider the length of training to be a major factor (besides just those specialties above...the ever-popular GI and cards are years added onto IM..)
 

jkhamlin

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Thank you DrMom

Also JK, think about why Derm, Anest, ER, Optho, ENT, Radiology, etc are so competative these days.....inferring from this and also what I have read in sources such as Isersons, US grads don't consider the length of training to be a major factor (besides just those specialties above...the ever-popular GI and cards are years added onto IM..)
I cannot figure out for the life of me why ER is so popular... No offense to those doing it, I am glad they are, and we definitely need them; I just cannot figure it out. Also, ER is often considered primary care. As for the others you mention, they are all relatively short residencies (with the exceptions of GI and Cards) with high paying, cushy jobs at the end of the tunnel.

There is no shortage in primary care (especially FP) that isn't explained, probably by a direct 1:1 linear relationship, by the general physician shortage.

Also, keep in mind, I am talking about all residencies, not just Osteo.
 

Taus

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I cannot figure out for the life of me why ER is so popular... No offense to those doing it, I am glad they are, and we definitely need them; I just cannot figure it out. Also, ER is often considered primary care. As for the others you mention, they are all relatively short residencies (with the exceptions of GI and Cards) with high paying, cushy jobs at the end of the tunnel.

There is no shortage in primary care (especially FP) that isn't explained, probably by a direct 1:1 linear relationship, by the general physician shortage.

Also, keep in mind, I am talking about all residencies, not just Osteo.
good hours (3-4 12 hour shifts per week)+ good pay (>200) = popular
 

DrMom

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Is that it? I guess to each his own. I need more than that to be interested in any branch of medicine.


other pros (to name a few):
procedures
acute care
no rounding on the floor
no call/no pager (once done with residency)
fix things and move on
work hard when you're at work & have decent time off to do whatever you like



People either love EM or hate it, but you don't know until you spend time there.

In some states/organizations EM is considered primary care, in others it isn't.
 

ny skindoc

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I cannot figure out for the life of me why ER is so popular... No offense to those doing it, I am glad they are, and we definitely need them; I just cannot figure it out. Also, ER is often considered primary care. As for the others you mention, they are all relatively short residencies (with the exceptions of GI and Cards) with high paying, cushy jobs at the end of the tunnel.

There is no shortage in primary care (especially FP) that isn't explained, probably by a direct 1:1 linear relationship, by the general physician shortage.

Also, keep in mind, I am talking about all residencies, not just Osteo.
EM is popular because it avoids many of the issues of office based medicine.High overhead,malpractice..this is often dealt with by the hospital.
Also EM lends itself for shift work and variable schedules,useful for those who want more control of their time.Income is good for now but potentially much more open to cuts and controls than office based practice.
 

jkhamlin

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This article dates to 2002. The situation has drastically chnaged.In the last match virtually all categorical surgery positions in the allopathic match were filled.Competition is strong for these spots.
Preliminary surgery is another story there are plenty of unmatched spots and easy to get.

Did you read the article, or just the date? I don't see the factors involved just turning around on a dime in just four years. Besides, there are other articles out there about this; this one just sums it up nicely.
 
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