DO salaries and years

[yummytummy]

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Do DO physicians need to stay more than 4 years because of OMM? Asking b/c medicine on its own is a long journey and extra years would not be particularly attractive. Also, I know many people say that DO salaries are the same...is that by theory only or also by application? Does anyone know a DO whose salary is particularly high like MD physicians?

 

[jp104]

 

[lonewolf1513]

Hhahahhaa.... gotta love captain picard. That being said to be helpful and not synical, no D.O. schools are four years as well. As for the salary i don't know. Honestly though that shouldn't even be on your mind, b/c even if D.O.s are getting paid less; well it's more than enough. Just be sure you want to do it for the right reasons. On average physicians work more and make less (hourly speaking) than many other professional carriers. Being a physician is sacrificing yourself for others, so be ready to do that. If you wanna be greedy change from pre-health to pre-business. Good luck with your decisions.

 

[teacherman84]

Do DO physicians need to stay more than 4 years because of OMM? Asking b/c medicine on its own is a long journey and extra years would not be particularly attractive. Also, I know many people say that DO salaries are the same...is that by theory only or also by application? Does anyone know a DO whose salary is particularly high like MD physicians?

As stated, DO schools are four year and run exactly like MD schools, the difference being you have OMM lecture and lab added to your schedule.

Salaries are no different. It would be like one dentist, a DDS, getting paid more than another, a DMD, for the same root canal.

Think about how physicians get paid. The see patients/perform procedures which are then billed to the individual/insurance company/government. DOs are fully licensed physicians performing the same job as their MD coworkers and being compensated equally. This is not a theory but both common sense and what I have been told by those working in medicine.

 

[yummytummy]

And the match list...do they get good residencies too? I mean residencies that pay high like dermatology?

 

[Pghboy18]

Hhahahhaa.... gotta love captain picard. That being said to be helpful and not synical, no D.O. schools are four years as well. As for the salary i don't know. Honestly though that shouldn't even be on your mind, b/c even if D.O.s are getting paid less; well it's more than enough. Just be sure you want to do it for the right reasons. On average physicians work more and make less (hourly speaking) than many other professional carriers. Being a physician is sacrificing yourself for others, so be ready to do that. If you wanna be greedy change from pre-health to pre-business. Good luck with your decisions.

Question: Why, in these forums, when anyone asks about salary, does someone need to sanctimoniously post about how it's medicine is about "self-sacrifice" and that nobody should be concerned about whether his or her 8+ year $200,000 investment ever pays off? We all get what you're saying, but grow up a little bit. You don't need to be one of those evil, greedy pre-business kids to think about your financial future.

With that out of the way, I believe that D.O.s do as well or better than their MD colleagues under most private practice business models, which tend to place high emphasis on production (ie. how much business can you bring in and how long does it take you) as a vehicle for compensation, especially at the partner level.

Academic medicine is a little murkier to me because varying proportions of your income may come from grants, and I don't really know how easy it is for D.O.s to secure outside sources of research funding. If someone else knows more about compensation structures in academic medicine, feel free to clarify or correct this point.

 

[beckhunter116]

And the match list...do they get good residencies too? I mean residencies that pay high like dermatology?

Not to be overly harsh...but have you read a single thread in pre-DO or DO section.

DO's can do any residency an MD can. DO's have their own set of residencies they can apply to and they can also apply for MD residencies. For the uber-competitive like derm your best shot as a DO are the DO residencies.

 

[RG73]

Question: Why, in these forums, when anyone asks about salary, does someone need to sanctimoniously post about how it's medicine is about "self-sacrifice" and that nobody should be concerned about whether his or her 8+ year $200,000 investment ever pays off? We all get what you're saying, but grow up a little bit. You don't need to be one of those evil, greedy pre-business kids to think about your financial future.

Because usually the ones who make the sanctimonious posts are kids who have never been really been responsible for their own lives, never had to make it out in the real world, never dealt with debt, aren't married and/or raising families. Oh yeah, not to mention they have yet to put in the decade or so of 80 hour weeks with little compensation.

After you put in the work and you get into your 30s, the money is and should be a big issue. That doesn't make you greedy. Although, like Gordon Gekko, I tend to believe greed is good.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.

Greed is right.

Greed works.

Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind.

It warms my heart every time I watch Wall Street and get to that speech.

 

[RG73]

And the match list...do they get good residencies too? I mean residencies that pay high like dermatology?

No, no they do not. They don't get any residencies in fact. Especially not in dermatology. And they certainly do not get paid "high." I cannot, however, vouch for whether or not DOs are high when they do get paid.

 

[Mtnbiker]

No, no they do not. They don't get any residencies in fact. Especially not in dermatology. And they certainly do not get paid "high." I cannot, however, vouch for whether or not DOs are high when they do get paid.

 

[Krupat]

Just one question if DOs were paid less would you want to be a DO anymore? Seriously it is fine to think about salaries, but not fine to go for a career just because of the salary.

 

[RG73]

Seriously it is fine to think about salaries, but not fine to go for a career just because of the salary.

Why?

There's no law about what an individuals motivations may be in regards to a career. If a physician does a good job, it is irrelevant whether they're doing a good job for their patients because they want money or because they have some sense of altruism.

 

[JaggerPlate]

MD school = same length as DO school, DO salary = MD salary in the same field, residencies same, etc etc etc. Get where I'm going with this??

 

[djd2187]

GOOGLE!!!!

 

[123165]

I can say in a heartbeat that if DO salaries were less than MD salaries (by a decent amount) then I would not go the DO route.

I second the /facepalm though, to quote Justin Timberlake, "I'm bringing searching back"

 

[Grey Wind]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Osteopathic+Medicine

 

[Trogghunter]

No, no they do not. They don't get any residencies in fact. Especially not in dermatology. And they certainly do not get paid "high." I cannot, however, vouch for whether or not DOs are high when they do get paid.

I think that since most hospitals discourage drug abuse by patients, staff, and physicians alike...then i'd definitely say that they're not high when they get paid. I do know for a fact that one of the janitors at VBGH was high during a shift though.

I remember that my premed adviser said that his dermatologist is a D.O., but I guess that it depends on many other factors...I for one want to go down the EM route. I've also heard that more established schools will open the doors for better residencies...but this is probably a face palm from capt kirk

 

[RG73]

I think that since most hospitals discourage drug abuse by patients, staff, and physicians alike...then i'd definitely say that they're not high when they get paid.

I think you made a wrong turn at intersection of bad humor and taking this too seriously. Check the GPS.

 

[Trogghunter]

mostly bad, very dry humor...i try not to take too many things seriously. it's also the combination of finals week and a few cups of coffee. im at the point where my mind is racing...finding connections between endocrinology, environmental chem, and french literature that i never knew existed...in morgan freeman's voice. you cant just turn something like that off...you just have to lay in bed, read, and kill time before your 8am final. im not very big into the sleep thing, never have been.

 

[RG73]

im at the point where my mind is racing...finding connections between endocrinology, environmental chem, and french literature that i never knew existed...in morgan freeman's voice. you cant just turn something like that off...

Well the endocrinology and environmental chem connection is easy. The French lit is a stretch. The Morgan Freeman's voice...scary. I feel for you.

 

[MedicDO]

Ok lets set the record straight. Yes DO Medical schools are 5 years not 4 so that they can learn the OMM. Plus the internship year before residency. So figure on 6 years before residency. Then at the end after you finish residency in whatever specialty you'll generally make 2/3 what your MD counterparts make.

For Example I'm planning on going to a DO school (5 years) Then my internship year before my DO residency (now up to six years) then a 5 year residency in Neurogastroenterology, followed by a 2 year fellowship to specialize in correcting cerebral flatulence. So this puts me up to 13 years before I'm actually a practicing Neurogastroenterologist and to top it off I'll only make 200K a year while my MD counterparts who only went to school for 11 years are making 300K+.

Ok, all joking aside:

😀 DO's go to medical school for 4 years and make the same as MDs. The big difference is if you do an osteopathic residency you generally have to do an internship year after medical school but before residency. Of course there's also a couple pathways for primary care that you can complete medical school in 3 years.

 

[lonewolf1513]

So i get it money is important, that is why i said no matter which one you go into you will make enough. The point i was trying to make was money is not everything, because you can make much more if you put in the same amount of work, as you would in medicine. Also yes i don't have kids or a family to support, that doesn't mean i don't know the value of money ( so please don't assume). To Pghboy18 please read my post properly, as you can see i did not say money was not important. As for getting competitive residency, that's pretty much up to the person. If they can rock their boards, impress people on rotations, build connects and do well in their classes, then skys the limit for them. To all again good luck.

 

[Trogghunter]

So i get it money is important, that is why i said no matter which one you go into you will make enough. The point i was trying to make was money is not everything, because you can make much more if you put in the same amount of work, as you would in medicine. Also yes i don't have kids or a family to support, that doesn't mean i don't know the value of money ( so please don't assume). To Pghboy18 please read my post properly, as you can see i did not say money was not important. As for getting competitive residency, that's pretty much up to the person. If they can rock their boards, impress people on rotations, build connects and do well in their classes, then skys the limit for them. To all again good luck.

i have interviews at EVMS and MCV coming up during winter break...are they pretty relaxed or long?

 

[bocciball]

DOs are paid equal to MDs. Actually being proficient in OMM is become an advantage nowadays. Since OMM may not be covered by all insurance plans it is routine paid at full price by patients visiting physicians.

Side note: Many of KCOM graduates have left millions and millions of dollars to the school as endowments. Practically every object/room on this campus is named after a doctor who donated tons of money back to the school. We've recently heard of the school's biggest donation ever by some graduate who just passed away, described to us (students do not know the exact amount yet) as "millions upon millions of dollars".

Take it as you will. If you are a doctor you will be compensated well. However, you're also going to be working your butt off to get to that point.

 

[JaggerPlate]

DOs are paid equal to MDs. Actually being proficient in OMM is become an advantage nowadays. Since OMM may not be covered by all insurance plans it is routine paid at full price by patients visiting physicians.

Side note: Many of KCOM graduates have left millions and millions of dollars to the school as endowments. Practically every object/room on this campus is named after a doctor who donated tons of money back to the school. We've recently heard of the school's biggest donation ever by some graduate who just passed away, described to us (students do not know the exact amount yet) as "millions upon millions of dollars".

Take it as you will. If you are a doctor you will be compensated well. However, you're also going to be working your butt off to get to that point.

12.5 million dollar technology center recently built with ONLY alumni donations ... pretty amazing.

 

[bocciball]

But we did get Michael Kuchera 😉.

Who is this guy exactly, an OMM guru at PCOM? I only know he is a KCOM grad/previous professor? Much else I'm not sure.

 

[scpod]

DO's go to medical school for 4 years and make the same as MDs. The big difference is if you do an osteopathic residency you generally have to do an internship year after medical school but before residency. Of course there's also a couple pathways for primary care that you can complete medical school in 3 years.

Dunno where you got that idea but it's not true. With realignment most osteopathic internships were either eliminated or linked directly into a residency. There are some that still remain.... but not too many people take that route these days.

 

[Melicopter]

Why?

There's no law about what an individuals motivations may be in regards to a career. If a physician does a good job, it is irrelevant whether they're doing a good job for their patients because they want money or because they have some sense of altruism.

This is true, but it's not the best way to make money, and it involves a lot more of pretending you care about others, which will likely get more difficult with time if you actually don't. (=burnout)

I think it's a valid point that this is not the career path to go into if you're set on making a lot of money. Between the changes the government is making and the debt load, there are so many better options. As was said earlier - go into business if you're there for the money. Open a resort - that's kind of like caring for people, without pretending that you're actually doing it with their best interest in mind.

And no, I'm not a naive young student who has never supported myself. I have, and I understand money concerns. I definitely want to be able to pay off my debts, but in my case being realistic also means changing my career because this is what I want to do, regardless of the payoff. Part of that is likely because I come from an exceptionally poor family, so my perspective could just be due to lowered expectations.

Finally, my brain is fried from finals, so thank you for your patience in wading through my awkward sentences.

 

[123165]

This is true, but it's not the best way to make money, and it involves a lot more of pretending you care about others, which will likely get more difficult with time if you actually don't. (=burnout)

I think it's a valid point that this is not the career path to go into if you're set on making a lot of money. Between the changes the government is making and the debt load, there are so many better options. As was said earlier - go into business if you're there for the money. Open a resort - that's kind of like caring for people, without pretending that you're actually doing it with their best interest in mind.

And no, I'm not a naive young student who has never supported myself. I have, and I understand money concerns. I definitely want to be able to pay off my debts, but in my case being realistic also means changing my career because this is what I want to do, regardless of the payoff. Part of that is likely because I come from an exceptionally poor family, so my perspective could just be due to lowered expectations.

Finally, my brain is fried from finals, so thank you for your patience in wading through my awkward sentences.

People always say this, but what are the better options that give you a well-respected profession with well above average earning potential.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I can say in a heartbeat that if DO salaries were less than MD salaries (by a decent amount) then I would not go the DO route.

I second this. Luckily, this is not how the world works.

 

[OsteoRock]

Ok lets set the record straight. Yes DO Medical schools are 5 years not 4 so that they can learn the OMM. Plus the internship year before residency. So figure on 6 years before residency. Then at the end after you finish residency in whatever specialty you'll generally make 2/3 what your MD counterparts make.

For Example I'm planning on going to a DO school (5 years) Then my internship year before my DO residency (now up to six years) then a 5 year residency in Neurogastroenterology, followed by a 2 year fellowship to specialize in correcting cerebral flatulence. So this puts me up to 13 years before I'm actually a practicing Neurogastroenterologist and to top it off I'll only make 200K a year while my MD counterparts who only went to school for 11 years are making 300K+.

Ok, all joking aside:

😀 DO's go to medical school for 4 years and make the same as MDs. The big difference is if you do an osteopathic residency you generally have to do an internship year after medical school but before residency. Of course there's also a couple pathways for primary care that you can complete medical school in 3 years.

DO's make as much as 3x1.2234/8889(77.333)x123/234 as much as MD😀

 

[BenUstudent]

DO's make as much as 3x1.2234/8889(77.333)x123/234 as much as MD😀

I got 1.0123, I think I had a rounding error 😉

 

[JaggerPlate]

DO's make as much as 3x1.2234/8889(77.333)x123/234 as much as MD😀

If you're instate in Ohio and don't have to commit to their contract post residency, I'd go to OU. They have a pretty amazing program from what I hear.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I got 1.0123, I think I had a rounding error 😉

PFFF, good luck on the MCAT!

 

[BenUstudent]

PFFF, good luck on the MCAT!

Damn TI-30XII :/

 

[medhacker]

Who is this guy exactly, an OMM guru at PCOM? I only know he is a KCOM grad/previous professor? Much else I'm not sure.

He's an OMM capo

Some of the stuff you'll learn from the foundations book was written by him.