DO satellite schools?

[bigmuny]

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If the branch schools were set up like UC I wouldn't have a problem with it. The problem that I have is that we are popping up branch schools for proprietary reasons, and having a single college within its halls. If there were actually multiple colleges with in these new schools and a graduate program that was actually producing good quality research and receiving good funding form multiple sources it would be great. One of the things that we as a profession need to stop doing is opening up schools that rely mostly on student tuition for its operating capital. The medical profession has a whole has gone down this road before (1910) and it led to some dire repercussions.

The problem that will really plague the profession in the near future is our lack of research and meaningful contribution to the advancement of medicine. We can no longer claim to have a monopoly on preventive medicine and the holistic approach to the patient, and as more and more allopathic medical schools incorporate biomechanics and manipulation into it's curriculum we will have lost a monopoly on that as well.

With out more osteopathic schools getting involved in research and offering medical students? electives that broaden their horizons our profession, at least in my opinion is in danger of becoming irrelevant. In this day of Evidence Based Medicine research is not a luxury that we (Osteopathic Physicians) can relegate to the back burner, it is a matter of long term survival. Fortunately some schools are seeing this and slowly trying to increase their research faculty and funding and also developing multiple streams of funding to operate. It will be tough going for a while until the economy gets going and a corresponding increase in the public demand for medical advancement forces the governmental purse strings open. Until then we have to get by as best as we can. I'm completely for growth if it is done in a measured and thoughtful manner which will benefit our whole profession not just a few schools and a few individuals.


Sorry for the rant 😀

Brilliant post, and absolutely true. Unfortunately our profession is run by a small group of small minded people who in spite of all their pro-do rhetoric really care only about their own professional and financial interests, and in truth could give a damn about the future of our profession(or us as students). I wish this were not true, but unfortunately it is.

 

[Docgeorge]

Brilliant post, and absolutely true. Unfortunately our profession is run by a small group of small minded people who in spite of all their pro-do rhetoric really care only about their own professional and financial interests, and in truth could give a damn about the future of our profession(or us as students). I wish this were not true, but unfortunately it is.

All we can really do is wait for the dinosaurs to die out and take the regins of the AOA. 😀 😀

 

[DrFeelgoodDO]

I would like to see more DOs, and I don't think branch campuses are any problem. For instance doesn't UMDNJ have more than one campus? Is that something to be looked down on or is it o.k. because it is a allopathic school?

There are UC in Cali that have many campuses, aren't they almost a satellite? They all have their own reputation because they have been established for quite some time, but aren't they satellite campus?

What a person ends up doing after graduating depends on the person too. Even people that graduate from Carribean schools make it back here and some still do well. So I have learned through the application process to respect anyone pursuing their career goals whether it be Carribean or any branch campus DO. In the end they are all physicians.

Yes, UMDNJ has 3 med schools - 2 allopathic and 1 osteopathic. BUT, like the UC system, THEY ARE ALL SEPERATE SCHOOLS. Just like Midwestern Univ. with AZCOM and CCOM. It's ok for the profession, i my opinion, to have sister schools with seperate facilities and goals. In other words, it is not a satellite campus opened merely for profit. If the quality of applicants accepted to satellite campuses is not affected, than I would have no problem with the whole concept. Take PCOM for example. They already have upwards of 300 students in each class as it is - is there a need to augment that? Should PCOM make an extra 6 million a year under the guise of starting a branch in GA, accepting applicants with 2.0 GPAs and 20 on the MCAT in order to make it happen? Clearly that cheapens the DO degree. And as far as where you go to school, you are right. We are all physicians in the end. But its pretty obvious to both myself, other American grads, and most particularly residency program directors that not all physicians are educated equally. That may be harsh, but its the truth. And as far as respect is concerned, no one gets it completely based on where they went to school. Its something that has to be earned. The other thing to consider is osteopathic GME. Boomer brought up a good point. There are not enough DO residencies available, much less. even clinical rotation spots.

 

[Boomer]

I'd like to point out that, even though FeelGood is a prick (and a huge "Joysey" prick at that)....he's pretty much right.

 

[DrFeelgoodDO]

I'd like to point out that, even though FeelGood is a prick (and a huge "Joysey" prick at that)....he's pretty much right.

I, too, would like to point out that Boomer eats goat nuts, but none the less he's an awesome DO intern at an allopathic program. So to the dingus who said that I am insecure about being a DO...well turds like Boomer make me proud. And notice, neither of us went to a tropical island paradise ****hole 3rd world country for med school.

 

[(nicedream)]

What exactly is it that you think makes the UC schools and Midwestern schools "separate" but the so-called "satellite" schools something different? You realize there is separate administration, faculty and curriculum? Would it be better if they simply renamed themselves Erie University, and had ECOM and FCOM of Erie Univ?

 

[Boomer]

I, too, would like to point out that Boomer eats goat nuts, but none the less he's an awesome DO intern at an allopathic program. So to the dingus who said that I am insecure about being a DO...well turds like Boomer make me proud. And notice, neither of us went to a tropical island paradise ****hole 3rd world country for med school.

MMmmmmmmm.....gooooaatt nuts.......Just got back from dinner with Dr. Indy Jones and Short Round....testicles were NOT on the menu, but manhattans were.....and DAMN TGIFriday's is proud of their whisky....

tkim, do you feel some sense of power by closing threads???? I love that threatening parental tone......Seriously, I'm impressed. No, really dude, if I was a chick, I'd do you....just cause the power would really get me going.......

And, ummm, Feelgood, is it??? Quit ripping on the Carib....if not for the Carib, I wouldn't have learned how to work up MS as an inpatient last week....and that's an experience I'll treasure for the remainder of my days.

Back to the point of this thread for a second....The complaint is this: there has been ENTIRELY too rapid growth of DO schools recently. Yes, having a larger of number of DOs may sound good on the surface, but this example of opening three new campuses in the same year only serves to introduce skepticism into the eyes of residency program directors. Whether you like it or not, and whether it's fair or not, you will be judged based on programs' experiences with previous grads of your school. It will be more difficult for these new campuses to get their feet in the door. And still, there are not enough residency programs to accomodate all DO grads, so I still don't get the philosophy of opening more seats.

The difference between the UC's and these new satellite campuses is this: THE UC's HAVE RESIDENCY PROGRAMS AND RESEARCH. Each school can stand on it's own merits. Kind of hard to say the same for PCOM-GA, huh?

 

[OnMyWayThere]

The research has been done... OMM works.

 

[Docgeorge]

1) While some new promising data is comming out we still have a lot more research to do in OMM.

2) Research is just not limited to OMM, but other disiplines related to medicine, both basic sciences and clinical.

 

[dr.z]

1) While some new promising data is comming out we still have a lot more research to do in OMM.

2) Research is just not limited to OMM, but other disiplines related to medicine, both basic sciences and clinical.

It will be difficult to get more funding for research at DO schools. I don't think allopathic schools are going to like it if DO schools starts to get more NIH grants. It will increase the competitiveness of the grant pool even more.

 

[docbill]

It will be difficult to get more funding for research at DO schools. I don't think allopathic schools are going to like it if DO schools starts to get more NIH grants. It will increase the competitiveness of the grant pool even more.

That has little to do with it. To get NIH grants you have to be competitive. Many private Osteopathic schools don't have the resources and infostructure to be competitive. UNECOM and KCUMB are both expanding research labs and number of faculty for research.

Others don't really care if DO schools start getting funding for research.

ALso on additional note.. NIH recently included DOs in their loan repayment program. If you work 50% in research, after graduating.. then you qualify for 25k/year towards your loans.

 

[cooldreams]

ALso on additional note.. NIH recently included DOs in their loan repayment program. If you work 50% in research, after graduating.. then you qualify for 25k/year towards your loans.

wow... how do you get into that... is that part also competitive??

 

[dr.z]

ALso on additional note.. NIH recently included DOs in their loan repayment program. If you work 50% in research, after graduating.. then you qualify for 25k/year towards your loans.

Could you please provide me more info about this? You can PM me the info or where to look. Thanks!

 

[stoic]

The research has been done... OMM works.

A LITTLE research has been done and a FEW methods in OMM have been show to work. That's a far cry from validating the entire practice as medically relevant.

The biggest issue that DO's will face in the next 20 years will be maintaining a separate identity from MD's. These branch schools are going to end up pushing the DO profession closer to a merger with MD's. Here's why: it's well known that quality DO post graduate education is a rarity. On top of that, there aren't even enough DO spots for half of the DO's that graduate every year. Where do you think the DO students from the branch campuses are going to train? At MD programs (both for undergrand a post grad education), that's where. As this trend continues, there will be less and less reason to keep the degree separate. I'm very concerned for the future of the DO professions and these branch schools are definately increasing my concern. The inability of DO's to form a cohesive vision for the future of the field is a major reason I jumped ship (the other major reason was tution).

These branch campuses are bad news.

 

[DSM]

Can I point out a different reason for satellite school programs? I am from the South and there were no DO schools even close to my state until LECOM and PCOM came into being. I would LOVE to see more DO schools pop up in the South because then the DO profession could become more mainstream here. It was not feasible for me to apply until these schools were created. Maybe if there were more DO schools in geographic regions where there are NO DO schools or there is only one school you would still get the quality physicians and they would serve a demographic region that is currently underserved by DO's.

I am excited and proud that there were 2 schools that were created in my region. Research is not the only hallmark of a quality school. Quality physicans are the best benchmark out there for a topnotch school.


Go DO!

 

[Docgeorge]

No but research and the availbiltiy to participate in it is a factor that plays a part in being a quality physician. But more importantly for us to survie as a profession we need to start pursueing research at our schools now.

 

[DSM]

No but research and the availbiltiy to participate in it is a factor that plays a part in being a quality physician. But more importantly for us to survie as a profession we need to start pursueing research at our schools now.

But you have to have the basics first......get the school going and then the research. There is no DO without the actual Doctors. The South is in need of more DO schools and that is a fact. I am all for new schools starting in underserved areas.

 

[LukeWhite]

But you have to have the basics first......get the school going and then the research. There is no DO without the actual Doctors. The South is in need of more DO schools and that is a fact. I am all for new schools starting in underserved areas.

Well said. The idea that a med school can't be worth its salt without research is past its prime, and it's not efficient to indoctrinate students into the mysteries of research if they're unlikely to engage in it.

Moreover, researchers tend to be more interested in just that than their teaching. This, perhaps, is one of the reasons why otherwise top schools like Harvard don't perform as well on boards as one would expect. Researchers like to talk about their research, and it's at the expense of clinical knowledge. We should probably extend this deemphasis on research even further in osteopathic schools and replace as many 1st year PhDs as possible with MDs and DOs.

The one area I think we could stand more research in is epidemiology. Highly relevant, misunderstood, and it would certainly close that USMLE statistics gap. As we noted on the other thread (before the gods stepped in with their thunder) less established schools are more likely to turn out primary care docs. Exactly how it should be, and if these newer schools are really interested in filling needs rather than merely being cash cows, they might be well served by finding the money it takes to fill the faculty rosters with practicing docs with MPHs and epidemiological background. Particularly in the south, CDC country, this should be easier than in some other places.

 

[tkim]

I'm merging the thread I closed with this thread, allowing access to the comments made in the other thread, while hopefully retaining the civil tone in this one. Thanks go out to Docgeorge for pointing out the importance of keeping the discussion going.