DO School most like MD school?

[Harker Heights]

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I was working at a UT hospital when TCOM tried to open an MD school, and I asked my boss about it. He went "What for?? All they have to do is remove the word osteopathic from their letterhead!!!!!"...

 

[radkat101]

TCOM. My reason being that almost every applicant to the school is also an applicant to the other 7 MD schools in Texas. The school seems to realize that many students aren't too thrilled about OMM and they even cram OMM in the beginning of the year now so that we have the second semester with no OMM at all. The school also has rotation sites that are arguably better than some of the state MD schools. More than 80% match to ACGME programs.

 

[Promethean]

UNECOM was on my short list. I noticed how awesome and underrated it seems to be, but self-selected out of applying unless I didn't get in at LECOM. Being in Maine does make a lot of people fail to notice it, and I have a thing for secret gems.

 

[deleted407021]

Hmm...I might be able to overlook Rick Perry if I got a TCOM acceptance. Only 10% OOS, though, and I'm sure they must be outstanding applicants.

 

[Harker Heights]

TCOM. My reason being that almost every applicant to the school is also an applicant to the other 7 MD schools in Texas. The school seems to realize that many students aren't too thrilled about OMM and they even cram OMM in the beginning of the year now so that we have the second semester with no OMM at all. The school also has rotation sites that are arguably better than some of the state MD schools. More than 80% match to ACGME programs.

TCOM also doesn't do grade replacement.
From talking to people, it seems there is a lackadaisical attitude toward OMM training for students at TCOM. They definitely want students to learn enough to pass the COMLEX, but that's about it.
I agree that the clinical training is very demanding and top notch, and in good large hospitals. The main teaching hospital is Level 1 and is action packed. What I really like is how everything is prearranged for students by the school for their rotations and there are tons of alumni that teach and mentor them. They even have retired alumni who come back on campus and work as standardized patients in labs, and they have a professional staff to help students on a 1-on-1 level throughout the residency and interview process. This type of environment doesn't exist at many schools.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Yeah but I think it might be too late? :/

@AlteredScale just a heads up. If you are accepted by OSUCOM, then you have to sign a contract stating you will practice in Ohio for at least five years after graduation.

I didn't submit a secondary here after finding that out.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

@AlteredScale just a heads up. If you are accepted by OSUCOM, then you have to sign a contract stating you will practice in Ohio for at least five years after graduation.

I didn't submit a secondary here after finding that out.

Just a heads up, that 'S' makes a difference.

@AlteredScale If you have really solid #s I wouldn't say it's too late. They interview into February and even March. You can find the secondary questions in the school thread.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

@AlteredScale just a heads up. If you are accepted by OSUCOM, then you have to sign a contract stating you will practice in Ohio for at least five years after graduation.

I didn't submit a secondary here after finding that out.

Why would an Oklahoma school require someone to practice in Ohio? You thinking of the wrong school.

 

[Moose A Moose]

PCOM seems overrated. While it is one of the better schools, I probably wouldn't put it in the same tier as the state schools.

I don't know about that. I'm really familiar with Rowan and PCOM, and I want to say although RowanSOM has a lot of potential, it's still trailing their neighbor osteopathic school across the Delaware.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

haha no, I saw serenade had it and it sounded so cool that I had to have it too. I hope @serenade doesn't mind!

Nah, just turn the water to wine.

 

[DaddyBex28]

Whoops my bad.

Just a heads up, that 'S' makes a difference.

@AlteredScale If you have really solid #s I wouldn't say it's too late. They interview into February and even March. You can find the secondary questions in the school thread.

Why would an Oklahoma school require someone to practice in Ohio? You thinking of the wrong school.

 

[Shinobiz11]

Eh not really. I agree with @pollos that it's CHM + OMM tacked on for a couple hours every week (plus we have nicer, more rounded students 😛).

Heck, we [in EL] share many of the same professors, labs, course packs, and facilities, actually...

They seemed to make the case for it at the open houses this past week lol. One of the clinical faculty went off on DO pride.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

They seemed to make the case for it at the open houses this past week lol. One of the clinical faculty went off on DO pride.

Oh, don't get me wrong -- there's plenty of DO pride at MSUCOM!

However, in some places it's pretty obvious that we have overlap with CHM. .. like where our anatomy coursepack says "attacoment" instead of "attachment" because they did a "CHM" --> "COM" find-and-replace. 😛

 

[AlteredScale]

Oh, don't get me wrong -- there's plenty of DO pride at MSUCOM!

However, in some places it's pretty obvious that we have overlap with CHM. .. like where our anatomy coursepack says "attacoment" instead of "attachment" because they did a "CHM" --> "COM" find-and-replace. 😛

Hahaha no way! That's awesome. So they do that replacement with everything?

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Hahaha no way! That's awesome. So they do that replacement with everything?

Well, if I remember correctly, classes and block schedules used to be almost exactly the same between the MD and DO programs. However, COM has revised the curriculum substantially over the last few years, so I think there may be some divergence between material to incorporate longitudinal themes better. So ... haha not all of our coursepacks have such obvious mistakes, but I bet a good chunk of our material is shared.

 

[Goro]

All of them are, and none of them are, and I've been around at least six of them to get an idea of what they do.

Title says it all

 

[user3]

I don't know about that. I'm really familiar with Rowan and PCOM, and I want to say although RowanSOM has a lot of potential, it's still trailing their neighbor osteopathic school across the Delaware.

there is something to be said, though, for schools that are connected to reputable universities. I am personally thankful for the few (MSU, OSU, etc) in the DO world that exist.

 

[Moose A Moose]

All of them are, and none of them are, and I've been around at least six of them to get an idea of what they do.

You can sound so mystical sometimes, Goro.

 

[Moose A Moose]

-

 

[Sweetpotatoguy]

Hmm I would say MSUCOM, Rowan, UNTHS/TCOM. All three seem to have really good research institutions backing them. I believe Rowan and UNT have affiliated university hospitals.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about brrrppp.

 

[AlteredScale]

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about brrrppp.

Whoah whoah bro.

 

[Sweetpotatoguy]

Whoah whoah bro.

Don't whoah bro me! Lol.

This is a good thread.

 

[JimmyB123]

Pretty sure the DO state schools are in a league of their own. Then all the rest of the DO schools.

 

[reapplicanthelpme2014]

PCOM! They have their own teaching hospital! Lol

 

[buttfrogs]

Title says it all

I disagree. Your title says nothing whatsoever. What do you mean by this? What criteria are you wanting us to compare? MD schools vary substantially in the same ways DO schools do, and there is significant overlap between MD/DO schools in terms of quality and characteristics.

And since you're giving us nothing to go on.. On the basis of:
a) Teaches classes
b) At the end you become a doctor

The answer is: ALL OF THEM

 

[user3]

I disagree. Your title says nothing whatsoever. What do you mean by this? What criteria are you wanting us to compare? MD schools vary substantially in the same ways DO schools do, and there is significant overlap between MD/DO schools in terms of quality and characteristics.

And since you're giving us nothing to go on.. On the basis of:
a) Teaches classes
b) At the end you become a doctor

The answer is: ALL OF THEM

it would be interesting to see a side-by-side review of an established DO school and a "lower tier" MD school. Say, PCOM vs Drexel.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

it would be interesting to see a side-by-side review of an established DO school and a "lower tier" MD school. Say, PCOM vs Drexel.

I think largely a more fair comparison would be PCOM to Commonwealth or a few UTs. Regardless of what the degree is Drexel is an enormous research institute with a top notch research academic setting hospital. PCOM is an establish community program more akin to Commonwealth College of Medicine.


When it comes down to it the issue is that most MD schools were devoured by larger schools in the 20th century. I mean Drexel's medical program for example was a separate one until Drexel decided to buy it out. DO schools didn't get that, and unfortunately aren't getting that for a lot of reasons.

 

[user3]

I think largely a more fair comparison would be PCOM to Commonwealth or a few UTs. Regardless of what the degree is Drexel is an enormous research institute with a top notch research academic setting hospital. PCOM is an establish community program more akin to Commonwealth College of Medicine.


When it comes down to it the issue is that most MD schools were devoured by larger schools in the 20th century. I mean Drexel's medical program for example was a separate one until Drexel decided to buy it out. DO schools didn't get that, and unfortunately aren't getting that for a lot of reasons.

youre probably right, those two just came to mind. Perhaps another comparison could be CCOM vs RFU. But honestly, too many people get emotional and defensive at even the barest mention of MD vs DO topics.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

youre probably right, those two just came to mind. Perhaps another comparison could be CCOM vs RFU. But honestly, too many people get emotional and defensive at even the barest mention of MD vs DO topics.

I think we just need to be honest and admit that most DO schools aren't producing the cure for cancer anytime soon.

 

[deleted407021]

I think we just need to be honest and admit that most DO schools aren't producing the cure for cancer anytime soon.

But that's not really the aim of these institutions, as I'm sure you know.

 

[buttfrogs]

I think we just need to be honest and admit that most DO schools aren't producing the cure for cancer anytime soon.

So are we assuming that OP's only criteria for this post was an institution's research grant money?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

But that's not really the aim of these institutions, as I'm sure you know.

The questions is whether they should be or not. Truth is medicine has changed a lot, research is enormous integral to the very structure and foundation of how things are done. Is it truly a medical school if it does not try to keep up with that?

 

[jqueb29]

From my experience, AZCOM was the most like MD schools in terms of actively promoting specialization with less of a primary care focus, while Oklahoma State was the most like MD schools in terms of resources/facilities.

 

[67552931811]

.

 

[doapplicant2015]

Is it truly a medical school if it does not try to keep up with that?

Who is going to pay for this research? I believe a medical schools primary goal is to produce competent physicians who are up to date with the current literature, not produce it

 

[buttfrogs]

Why should they be? What percent of physicians practice non-academic medicine? I suppose smaller colleges/ universities that focus more on education rather than research shouldn't be allowed to grant degrees either, eh? 🙄

Oh definitely. I went to a smallish "liberal arts" university that didn't even grant doctorate degrees. Forget all the things I liked about it -- small class sizes, lots of one-on-one time with professors, an easily walkable campus.. I think they should totally be shut down because they're not doing significant research in science or technology. The criminals.

 

[birdboybird]

Maybe a better question would of been which MD schools are most like DO schools...?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Who is going to pay for this research? I believe a medical schools primary goal is to produce competent physicians who are up to date with the current literature, not produce it

I think teaching and producing physicians is the point of medical school. However housing large academic endeavors in biomedical and clinical research I feel epitomizes what large medical schools are about in truth. They produce students within that context.

And no, I'm not saying small schools don't deserve medical schools. I just believe that a strong research foundation for medical schools not only strengthens the school, but also makes its student's stronger and more respected.

 

[user3]

Who is going to pay for this research? I believe a medical schools primary goal is to produce competent physicians who are up to date with the current literature, not produce it

from the ABIM's charter on physician responsibilities (that is endorsed by the AOA):

Commitment to scientific knowledge.
Much of medicine’s contract with society is based on the integrity and appropriate use of scientific knowledge and technology. Physicians have a duty to uphold scientific standards, to promote research, and to create new knowledge and ensure its appropriate use. The profession is responsible for the integrity of this knowledge, which is based on scientific evidence and physician experience.

"Promoting research" and "creating new knowledge" is part of medicine's contract with society. I feel this applies, by extension, to medical schools as well.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I think teaching and producing physicians is the point of medical school. However housing large academic endeavors in biomedical and clinical research I feel epitomizes what l̶a̶r̶g̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶d̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶c̶h̶o̶o̶l̶s̶ R1 research institutions are about in truth. They produce students within that context. [...]

Fixed that for ya.

Messing around aside, my opinion is that an understanding of research is important for being a competent physician -- heck, continuing education is critical to being a competent physician as clinically relevant knowledge changes significantly every ~5 years. I also agree with your original statement to a certain extent... but I'm a bit biased having only ever attended and worked at R1 schools. On the other hand, I also agree with @buttfrogs that you can't say students are any less strong or respectable just because they went somewhere where different values are prioritized. Middlebury vs. UMich... or Amherst vs. Arizona St. ... you can't really make a quality judgement since they're so different.

Finally, "research" does not have to mean "biomedical benchwork that costs millions". Studying something like how certain personal beliefs correlate with medication adherence is valuable in its own right.

 

[user3]

The questions is whether they should be or not. Truth is medicine has changed a lot, research is enormous integral to the very structure and foundation of how things are done. Is it truly a medical school if it does not try to keep up with that?

I think medical schools have an obligation to help advance the profession by actively promoting scholarly activity, research, and innovation. I feel our schools fail the profession if not partaking in this. It doesn't have to be Harvard level, but I feel it is something that should be present and taken seriously.

 

[SkipJunior]

I think medical schools have an obligation to help advance the profession by actively promoting scholarly activity, research, and innovation. I feel our schools fail the profession if not partaking in this. It doesn't have to be Harvard level, but I feel it is something that should be present and taken seriously.

I think DO schools are slowly but surely expanding their research interests, though it's still a lot less activity than MD schools. State DO schools have research commitments close to that of state MD schools. Even private schools like PCOM have DO-PhD programs.

DOs are currently 7-10 percent of the US physician workforce. Within our lifetime, DOs are expected to become 25 percent of the workforce and possibly even more. As DOs become more mainstream, DO schools will become more respected. Just 10-20 years ago, many members of the medical community would constantly compare DO to Caribbean schools, most implying they are equal and some even stating that Carib is better. Now, the majority consensus is that DO is a way better option than Carib. Progress, not perfection should be our goal.

 

[user3]

I think DO schools are slowly but surely expanding their research interests, though it's still a lot less activity than MD schools. State DO schools have research commitments close to that of state MD schools. Even private schools like PCOM have DO-PhD programs.

Hopefully, the numerous "chain restaurant" DO schools will follow suit as well.

 

[allantois]

I'm yet to meet an NSU graduate who incorporated OMM into their practice.

 

[AlteredScale]

I think the initial drive for DOs to fill the primary care shortage is still present but there is realization that research truly is an integral part of medicine. There are many DO bound students who want to pursue rural medicine which I believe do not need to be exposed to as much bench science but still need to understand the importance of research in medicine.

 

[user3]

n/m

 

[AlteredScale]

n/m

I understand your frustration though.

 

[NekoBeats]

I'm yet to meet an NSU graduate who incorporated OMM into their practice.

The family med doc I shadowed was a Nova grad and she used OMM pretty regularly in her practice. OMM in general is taught really well at NSU, probably one of the stronger departments here.

 

[deleted407021]

The questions is whether they should be or not. Truth is medicine has changed a lot, research is enormous integral to the very structure and foundation of how things are done. Is it truly a medical school if it does not try to keep up with that?

I agree, but regardless, some institutions don't have a research focus, which was my point.

As a later poster points out, contribution to the body of knowledge is a responsibility of every physician, but do you think that the FP in nowhereville Washington is going to be producing original research? Probably not, however, I do think attendance of conferences and submission of case studies can be a good way for any doctor to make contributions to the body of knowledge.

 

[cliquesh]

I agree, but regardless, some institutions don't have a research focus, which was my point.

As a later poster points out, contribution to the body of knowledge is a responsibility of every physician, but do you think that the FP in nowhereville Washington is going to be producing original research? Probably not, however, I do think attendance of conferences and submission of case studies can be a good way for any doctor to make contributions to the body of knowledge.

Most research, including my own, is bull****, and contributing poor quality research helps no one. It just makes the issue more unclear.